2021 Playoff and Offseason Speculation - the playoffs. PLAYOFFS????

[BobbieL]

Can't wait to see the GB responses if someone posts a thread with Perkins saying we could be a dynasty.

I don't know if anyone could be a dynasty in today's NBA, tbh.
Bucks, Nets, Philly, Atlanta all look very tough in the East
Lakers, Clippers, Jazz, Nuggets and possibly Warriors all look very tough out West.

And that's not accounting for possible offseason moves by Dallas and the Knicks.

The point I'm making is that parity is as strong in the league as it's been in a very long time.

However, I think with the right moves, the Suns CAN position themselves to be the odds on favorite to win it all the next 2-3 years. The thing that has stood out to me more than anything about this team is how literally any and everyone who has ever played in the league (minus maybe Mark Jackson) says they love their style of play, are fun to watch, that they are unselfish, share the ball, no egos, etc.

That goes a long way to attracting FAs. And there just might be some guys who say, yeah, I'll take less money or a lesser role to be a part of that. I think this is a different scenario than a 'super team' for a few reasons:
1. One of our stars is a pass first PG
Not many super teams in the last 20 years have featured a distributor of the caliber of CP3. The league has shifted its focus to scoring guards like Curry and Lillard, and while those guys certainly do get assists, they are not in the same mold as Paul in terms of creation.

2. Booker is a willing and able facilitator
Our second star, while not necessarily known for his creation is a guy who is going to move the ball and use the attention he draws to get teammates involved. And he does it with deliberation. It's not Plan B to him scoring, its Plan A2.

3. Everyone has a role to play, and Monty trusts everyone to play it.
This isn't a, "come ride the coattails of our stars" scenario. This is, if you come, you're going to work toward winning, you're going to be called upon to show up and be counted, and when you are called upon you better perform. That has a lot of appeal to guys in the league, who don't necessarily want to ride the bench or play 12 minutes a night to spell a star. Monty gives guys 2nd and 3rd chances in the rotation, and if you're putting in the work, you're going to get a chance to show it. When you look at the end of our bench, guys 10-13, Carter (60 games), Kaminsky (47 games) and Galloway (40 games) all got decent opportunities to showcase themselves. Nader (24 games) probably would have as well had he not missed so much time with injury.

I would not at all be surprised if a good caliber FA told their agent, 'get me to Phoenix, I'll play for the MLE'

The two guys who I have in mind when I say that are Richuan Holmes and Evan Fournier.

Holmes has history here, and when you look at the contracts given out to FA Cs in the last couple seasons, aside from Vucevic and Valenciunas, they are all $13m/season or less, the MLE is right about $10m. Would Holmes take a few million less to play a big (albeit bench) role (especially now with Saric out) on a title contending team? He could very easily work himself into a 6th man conversation, and I would love to see a Holmes/Payne screen roll duo.

Evan Fournier just strikes me as such a James Jones type player. Smart, very good defender, versatile offensive weapon. He didn't really impress in Boston after the trade, and had some injury/COVID issues which limited his impact, so his value is probably lower than it would be otherwise. He's not really played on a winning team yet (3 1st round exits). Granted he's a guy who might command a lot more on the open market, but DeRozan and Oladipo are probably going to get the big money, and Fournier could be left deciding if he wants to make a little more and play for OKC, Toronto or Charlotte, or come to Phoenix and try to win a championship.

Do I think either of those things will necessarily happen? No. But would I be surprised if they did? Also, no.

I do agree with the above. It will hard to do what the Warriors did for those 5 years winning three titles and very close to go five for five. But I do think the Suns, especially if Paul is back - are well positioned for the next 3-5 years.

And though you do mention that the Lakers, Nuggets, Clippers, Jazz and Warriors will be tough outs -- I think looking forward - with how each roster is constructed, its hard to think any of those teams get better.

I know the Warriors will be better with Klay - but how many other roster moves can they make plus they are not ascending team - I think the Suns can still get better just by organic growth if the roster is basically the same next year.

And lastly, I agree with your point about free agents. The Suns will have the MLE and BAE to use. Possibly an injury exception for Saric as well as the league veteran minimums. I think the bench next year can be deeper than this year.

[Barkley6]

Spoiler:

Can't wait to see the GB responses if someone posts a thread with Perkins saying we could be a dynasty.

I don't know if anyone could be a dynasty in today's NBA, tbh.
Bucks, Nets, Philly, Atlanta all look very tough in the East
Lakers, Clippers, Jazz, Nuggets and possibly Warriors all look very tough out West.

And that's not accounting for possible offseason moves by Dallas and the Knicks.

The point I'm making is that parity is as strong in the league as it's been in a very long time.

However, I think with the right moves, the Suns CAN position themselves to be the odds on favorite to win it all the next 2-3 years. The thing that has stood out to me more than anything about this team is how literally any and everyone who has ever played in the league (minus maybe Mark Jackson) says they love their style of play, are fun to watch, that they are unselfish, share the ball, no egos, etc.

That goes a long way to attracting FAs. And there just might be some guys who say, yeah, I'll take less money or a lesser role to be a part of that. I think this is a different scenario than a 'super team' for a few reasons:
1. One of our stars is a pass first PG
Not many super teams in the last 20 years have featured a distributor of the caliber of CP3. The league has shifted its focus to scoring guards like Curry and Lillard, and while those guys certainly do get assists, they are not in the same mold as Paul in terms of creation.

2. Booker is a willing and able facilitator
Our second star, while not necessarily known for his creation is a guy who is going to move the ball and use the attention he draws to get teammates involved. And he does it with deliberation. It's not Plan B to him scoring, its Plan A2.

3. Everyone has a role to play, and Monty trusts everyone to play it.
This isn't a, "come ride the coattails of our stars" scenario. This is, if you come, you're going to work toward winning, you're going to be called upon to show up and be counted, and when you are called upon you better perform. That has a lot of appeal to guys in the league, who don't necessarily want to ride the bench or play 12 minutes a night to spell a star. Monty gives guys 2nd and 3rd chances in the rotation, and if you're putting in the work, you're going to get a chance to show it. When you look at the end of our bench, guys 10-13, Carter (60 games), Kaminsky (47 games) and Galloway (40 games) all got decent opportunities to showcase themselves. Nader (24 games) probably would have as well had he not missed so much time with injury.

I would not at all be surprised if a good caliber FA told their agent, 'get me to Phoenix, I'll play for the MLE'

The two guys who I have in mind when I say that are Richuan Holmes and Evan Fournier.

Holmes has history here, and when you look at the contracts given out to FA Cs in the last couple seasons, aside from Vucevic and Valenciunas, they are all $13m/season or less, the MLE is right about $10m. Would Holmes take a few million less to play a big (albeit bench) role (especially now with Saric out) on a title contending team? He could very easily work himself into a 6th man conversation, and I would love to see a Holmes/Payne screen roll duo.

Evan Fournier just strikes me as such a James Jones type player. Smart, very good defender, versatile offensive weapon. He didn't really impress in Boston after the trade, and had some injury/COVID issues which limited his impact, so his value is probably lower than it would be otherwise. He's not really played on a winning team yet (3 1st round exits). Granted he's a guy who might command a lot more on the open market, but DeRozan and Oladipo are probably going to get the big money, and Fournier could be left deciding if he wants to make a little more and play for OKC, Toronto or Charlotte, or come to Phoenix and try to win a championship.

Do I think either of those things will necessarily happen? No. But would I be surprised if they did? Also, no.

I do agree with the above. It will hard to do what the Warriors did for those 5 years winning three titles and very close to go five for five. But I do think the Suns, especially if Paul is back - are well positioned for the next 3-5 years.

And though you do mention that the Lakers, Nuggets, Clippers, Jazz and Warriors will be tough outs -- I think looking forward - with how each roster is constructed, its hard to think any of those teams get better.

I know the Warriors will be better with Klay - but how many other roster moves can they make plus they are not ascending team - I think the Suns can still get better just by organic growth if the roster is basically the same next year.

And lastly, I agree with your point about free agents. The Suns will have the MLE and BAE to use. Possibly an injury exception for Saric as well as the league veteran minimums. I think the bench next year can be deeper than this year.

Yep. I know the finances get a little hairy, but I think you go all in on the next two seasons and then figure out what to do after that. I think you look at it this way, you use the BAE, MLE, DPE and re-sign Payne for around $9m/per. That's a total of $27m. In 2 years, Crowder, Saric and Carter (plus the BAE) come off the books for a total of....$27m (and the DPE will expire at the end of next season, so in total over the next 2 offseasons, you can reduce salary by ~$31m, without having to make any additional moves) . So essentially you're only committed to paying that extra cash for the next two seasons, which aligns completely with our title aspirations. We would go into the luxury tax, but if CP3 opts out and re-signs at about $10m less a season, we'd only go over the tax by $9m (That's $14.5m in tax for 21-22). If I understand early rookie extensions correctly, it would only kick in AFTER next season, even if the deal is signed this summer. Meaning that $9m ($14.5m tax) figure would stand for 2021-22, before going up significantly the next year. However, this scenario would also likely avoid us paying the repeater tax, which only kicks in if you've paid the luxury tax for 3 of the last 4 seasons. So even if we payed the luxury tax in 21-22, and 22-23, we'd likely be under it by 23-24 and we'd definitely get under it when CP3 came off the books after 23-24, and not have to pay the repeater tax.

For reference:
MLE: ~$10m per
BAE: ~$3.7m per
DPE: ~$4.6m per

I think we'll be able to add two very good players with those exceptions (I think Craig is all but a lock to get the BAE).

[Mulhollanddrive]

Interested to see how Craig and Crowder are injury wise even if they play.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Jeff Skversky (@JeffSkversky) Tweeted:
Brett Brown apologized to Mikal Bridges mom multiple times for trading him to the Suns in 2018

Bridges mom, who worked for the 76ers at the time, shares how former #Sixers coach Brett Brown called her

"he must have apologized to me a gazillion times"

#Suns
#NBA https://t.co/g9DVftHlx9

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Ghost of Kleine]

Valley of the Suns (@ValleyoftheSuns) Tweeted:
Will Chris Paul be back? The @Suns are probably fine with the idea that CP will opt out. Here's the current landscape:
https://t.co/vf2F8SO27K

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[BobbieL]

Spoiler:

I don't know if anyone could be a dynasty in today's NBA, tbh.
Bucks, Nets, Philly, Atlanta all look very tough in the East
Lakers, Clippers, Jazz, Nuggets and possibly Warriors all look very tough out West.

And that's not accounting for possible offseason moves by Dallas and the Knicks.

The point I'm making is that parity is as strong in the league as it's been in a very long time.

However, I think with the right moves, the Suns CAN position themselves to be the odds on favorite to win it all the next 2-3 years. The thing that has stood out to me more than anything about this team is how literally any and everyone who has ever played in the league (minus maybe Mark Jackson) says they love their style of play, are fun to watch, that they are unselfish, share the ball, no egos, etc.

That goes a long way to attracting FAs. And there just might be some guys who say, yeah, I'll take less money or a lesser role to be a part of that. I think this is a different scenario than a 'super team' for a few reasons:
1. One of our stars is a pass first PG
Not many super teams in the last 20 years have featured a distributor of the caliber of CP3. The league has shifted its focus to scoring guards like Curry and Lillard, and while those guys certainly do get assists, they are not in the same mold as Paul in terms of creation.

2. Booker is a willing and able facilitator
Our second star, while not necessarily known for his creation is a guy who is going to move the ball and use the attention he draws to get teammates involved. And he does it with deliberation. It's not Plan B to him scoring, its Plan A2.

3. Everyone has a role to play, and Monty trusts everyone to play it.
This isn't a, "come ride the coattails of our stars" scenario. This is, if you come, you're going to work toward winning, you're going to be called upon to show up and be counted, and when you are called upon you better perform. That has a lot of appeal to guys in the league, who don't necessarily want to ride the bench or play 12 minutes a night to spell a star. Monty gives guys 2nd and 3rd chances in the rotation, and if you're putting in the work, you're going to get a chance to show it. When you look at the end of our bench, guys 10-13, Carter (60 games), Kaminsky (47 games) and Galloway (40 games) all got decent opportunities to showcase themselves. Nader (24 games) probably would have as well had he not missed so much time with injury.

I would not at all be surprised if a good caliber FA told their agent, 'get me to Phoenix, I'll play for the MLE'

The two guys who I have in mind when I say that are Richuan Holmes and Evan Fournier.

Holmes has history here, and when you look at the contracts given out to FA Cs in the last couple seasons, aside from Vucevic and Valenciunas, they are all $13m/season or less, the MLE is right about $10m. Would Holmes take a few million less to play a big (albeit bench) role (especially now with Saric out) on a title contending team? He could very easily work himself into a 6th man conversation, and I would love to see a Holmes/Payne screen roll duo.

Evan Fournier just strikes me as such a James Jones type player. Smart, very good defender, versatile offensive weapon. He didn't really impress in Boston after the trade, and had some injury/COVID issues which limited his impact, so his value is probably lower than it would be otherwise. He's not really played on a winning team yet (3 1st round exits). Granted he's a guy who might command a lot more on the open market, but DeRozan and Oladipo are probably going to get the big money, and Fournier could be left deciding if he wants to make a little more and play for OKC, Toronto or Charlotte, or come to Phoenix and try to win a championship.

Do I think either of those things will necessarily happen? No. But would I be surprised if they did? Also, no.

I do agree with the above. It will hard to do what the Warriors did for those 5 years winning three titles and very close to go five for five. But I do think the Suns, especially if Paul is back - are well positioned for the next 3-5 years.

And though you do mention that the Lakers, Nuggets, Clippers, Jazz and Warriors will be tough outs -- I think looking forward - with how each roster is constructed, its hard to think any of those teams get better.

I know the Warriors will be better with Klay - but how many other roster moves can they make plus they are not ascending team - I think the Suns can still get better just by organic growth if the roster is basically the same next year.

And lastly, I agree with your point about free agents. The Suns will have the MLE and BAE to use. Possibly an injury exception for Saric as well as the league veteran minimums. I think the bench next year can be deeper than this year.

Yep. I know the finances get a little hairy, but I think you go all in on the next two seasons and then figure out what to do after that. I think you look at it this way, you use the BAE, MLE, DPE and re-sign Payne for around $9m/per. That's a total of $27m. In 2 years, Crowder, Saric and Carter (plus the BAE) come off the books for a total of....$27m (and the DPE will expire at the end of next season, so in total over the next 2 offseasons, you can reduce salary by ~$31m, without having to make any additional moves) . So essentially you're only committed to paying that extra cash for the next two seasons, which aligns completely with our title aspirations. We would go into the luxury tax, but if CP3 opts out and re-signs at about $10m less a season, we'd only go over the tax by $9m (That's $14.5m in tax for 21-22). If I understand early rookie extensions correctly, it would only kick in AFTER next season, even if the deal is signed this summer. Meaning that $9m ($14.5m tax) figure would stand for 2021-22, before going up significantly the next year. However, this scenario would also likely avoid us paying the repeater tax, which only kicks in if you've paid the luxury tax for 3 of the last 4 seasons. So even if we payed the luxury tax in 21-22, and 22-23, we'd likely be under it by 23-24 and we'd definitely get under it when CP3 came off the books after 23-24, and not have to pay the repeater tax.

For reference:
MLE: ~$10m per
BAE: ~$3.7m per
DPE: ~$4.6m per

I think we'll be able to add two very good players with those exceptions (I think Craig is all but a lock to get the BAE).

[Barkley6]

I do agree with the above. It will hard to do what the Warriors did for those 5 years winning three titles and very close to go five for five. But I do think the Suns, especially if Paul is back - are well positioned for the next 3-5 years.

And though you do mention that the Lakers, Nuggets, Clippers, Jazz and Warriors will be tough outs -- I think looking forward - with how each roster is constructed, its hard to think any of those teams get better.

I know the Warriors will be better with Klay - but how many other roster moves can they make plus they are not ascending team - I think the Suns can still get better just by organic growth if the roster is basically the same next year.

And lastly, I agree with your point about free agents. The Suns will have the MLE and BAE to use. Possibly an injury exception for Saric as well as the league veteran minimums. I think the bench next year can be deeper than this year.

Yep. I know the finances get a little hairy, but I think you go all in on the next two seasons and then figure out what to do after that. I think you look at it this way, you use the BAE, MLE, DPE and re-sign Payne for around $9m/per. That's a total of $27m. In 2 years, Crowder, Saric and Carter (plus the BAE) come off the books for a total of....$27m (and the DPE will expire at the end of next season, so in total over the next 2 offseasons, you can reduce salary by ~$31m, without having to make any additional moves) . So essentially you're only committed to paying that extra cash for the next two seasons, which aligns completely with our title aspirations. We would go into the luxury tax, but if CP3 opts out and re-signs at about $10m less a season, we'd only go over the tax by $9m (That's $14.5m in tax for 21-22). If I understand early rookie extensions correctly, it would only kick in AFTER next season, even if the deal is signed this summer. Meaning that $9m ($14.5m tax) figure would stand for 2021-22, before going up significantly the next year. However, this scenario would also likely avoid us paying the repeater tax, which only kicks in if you've paid the luxury tax for 3 of the last 4 seasons. So even if we payed the luxury tax in 21-22, and 22-23, we'd likely be under it by 23-24 and we'd definitely get under it when CP3 came off the books after 23-24, and not have to pay the repeater tax.

For reference:
MLE: ~$10m per
BAE: ~$3.7m per
DPE: ~$4.6m per

I think we'll be able to add two very good players with those exceptions (I think Craig is all but a lock to get the BAE).

I agree that Craig should get the BAE. And Cam Payne probably gets the MLE. So that basically is replacing the likes of Kaminsky, Nader, Galloway and Moore with veterans on minimum deals.

If Cam Payne is not back - which would mean he got a pretty good paycheck - opens things up at back up guard. But he really has shown he is a good third guard with Book and Paul.

Because we have Payne's Early Bird rights we can go over the cap to sign him for up to $10m/season. So no need to use the MLE there. Can save it for another player.

[cberry78]

A bad game from Ayton is 10 points 11 rebounds 4 assists 3 steals and 2 blocks

Yeah....is it too late to trade him for Vucevic?

[Sunsdeuce]

Even with or without the Championship I foresee the Suns as a Star destination again (aka 1990s). Winning does that. I see a low key great player wanting to come to the Suns on a lower salary. That’s the benefit of winning. Winning attracts stars and good players.

[BobbieL]

Yep. I know the finances get a little hairy, but I think you go all in on the next two seasons and then figure out what to do after that. I think you look at it this way, you use the BAE, MLE, DPE and re-sign Payne for around $9m/per. That's a total of $27m. In 2 years, Crowder, Saric and Carter (plus the BAE) come off the books for a total of....$27m (and the DPE will expire at the end of next season, so in total over the next 2 offseasons, you can reduce salary by ~$31m, without having to make any additional moves) . So essentially you're only committed to paying that extra cash for the next two seasons, which aligns completely with our title aspirations. We would go into the luxury tax, but if CP3 opts out and re-signs at about $10m less a season, we'd only go over the tax by $9m (That's $14.5m in tax for 21-22). If I understand early rookie extensions correctly, it would only kick in AFTER next season, even if the deal is signed this summer. Meaning that $9m ($14.5m tax) figure would stand for 2021-22, before going up significantly the next year. However, this scenario would also likely avoid us paying the repeater tax, which only kicks in if you've paid the luxury tax for 3 of the last 4 seasons. So even if we payed the luxury tax in 21-22, and 22-23, we'd likely be under it by 23-24 and we'd definitely get under it when CP3 came off the books after 23-24, and not have to pay the repeater tax.

For reference:
MLE: ~$10m per
BAE: ~$3.7m per
DPE: ~$4.6m per

I think we'll be able to add two very good players with those exceptions (I think Craig is all but a lock to get the BAE).

I agree that Craig should get the BAE. And Cam Payne probably gets the MLE. So that basically is replacing the likes of Kaminsky, Nader, Galloway and Moore with veterans on minimum deals.

If Cam Payne is not back - which would mean he got a pretty good paycheck - opens things up at back up guard. But he really has shown he is a good third guard with Book and Paul.

Because we have Payne's Early Bird rights we can go over the cap to sign him for up to $10m/season. So no need to use the MLE there. Can save it for another player.

Thanks for that update. That is good to know. I just thought they could only use their MLE to get him close to $10m. Granted not sure how much Bobby Sarver will want to spend but that does open more possibilites thats for sure with bench depth.

So if Sarver is willing to spend it - the Suns might be in the market for a player that I have not even thought about because I thought they really only had the MLE and BAE to spend.

[bwgood77]

Even with or without the Championship I foresee the Suns as a Star destination again (aka 1990s). Winning does that. I see a low key great player wanting to come to the Suns on a lower salary. That’s the benefit of winning. Winning attracts stars and good players.

I've seen other posters post this and it might be nice if we had unlimited cap space, no repeater tax, etc, unless you are talking stars playing for minimum.

We will already have a tough time working out paying for CP3, Book, Ayton, Bridges and Cam, though luckily things work out in a way we probably only play the luxury tax for one year.

The first year Ayton/Bridges extensions kick in and we still have Crowder/Saric. The following year those two are gone and the year after that Paul is likely gone.

But it's not like we will have cap space to sign a star until possibly after Paul is gone but it might depend on what we pay the Cams...unless we want to trade someone on our core despite them winning a title together as a young core (doubtful).

[Flying Colors]

The cap is expected to make another big jump soon right? That would be the best time to strike when the iron is hot, I mean it’s basically why the Warriors were able to sign KD without any issues when it jumped the first time.

[bwgood77]

The cap is expected to make another big jump soon right? That would be the best time to strike when the iron is hot, I mean it’s basically why the Warriors were able to sign KD without any issues when it jumped the first time.

Not too big of jump, but it goes go up a bit along with the luxury tax. Projections..

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/salary_cap

[Barkley6]

Even with or without the Championship I foresee the Suns as a Star destination again (aka 1990s). Winning does that. I see a low key great player wanting to come to the Suns on a lower salary. That’s the benefit of winning. Winning attracts stars and good players.

I've seen other posters post this and it might be nice if we had unlimited cap space, no repeater tax, etc, unless you are talking stars playing for minimum.

We will already have a tough time working out paying for CP3, Book, Ayton, Bridges and Cam, though luckily things work out in a way we probably only play the luxury tax for one year.

The first year Ayton/Bridges extensions kick in and we still have Crowder/Saric. The following year those two are gone and the year after that Paul is likely gone.

But it's not like we will have cap space to sign a star until possibly after Paul is gone but it might depend on what we pay the Cams...unless we want to trade someone on our core despite them winning a title together as a young core (doubtful).

I don't think it's about getting a star player, we definitely don't have that kind of money. Its about the difference between getting a guy on a minimum and getting an MLE quality guy for our rotation, while avoiding serious luxury tax implications.

Do we go get Kelly Olynyk for the MLE to replace Saric?
Could we convince a Richuan Holmes to play for the MLE?
Do you get a Josh Richardson? A Tony Snell? a Will Barton? to be our backup for Devin Booker.

It's that level of guy, making us deeper and giving us even more options on offense and defense that we'd be looking at with the MLE.

Or conversely, it's being able to have the ability to dip into part of the MLE money and making sure we get the guy we want, instead of only being able to offer a minimum contract and hope that the situation in PHX has enough appeal.

Or, in terms of the DPE...it's a question of, do we offer Pick #29+DPE to Milwaukee for Bobby Portis?

It's about giving us options and continuing to get deeper. We saw in the regular season our inability to settle on a 4th guard in the rotation as we cycled through Galloway, Moore and Carter. We saw Frank in and out of the rotation. And now we have Saric's minutes to fill.

Payne and Craig hopefully come back, but even then we are only 8 deep as currently constructed, and Monty has shown the desire to go 10 deep.

No one is saying we get DeMar Derozan to sign here, it's more about finding high quality guys to fill in some of our 6-10th man minutes.

[bwgood77]

Even with or without the Championship I foresee the Suns as a Star destination again (aka 1990s). Winning does that. I see a low key great player wanting to come to the Suns on a lower salary. That’s the benefit of winning. Winning attracts stars and good players.

I've seen other posters post this and it might be nice if we had unlimited cap space, no repeater tax, etc, unless you are talking stars playing for minimum.

We will already have a tough time working out paying for CP3, Book, Ayton, Bridges and Cam, though luckily things work out in a way we probably only play the luxury tax for one year.

The first year Ayton/Bridges extensions kick in and we still have Crowder/Saric. The following year those two are gone and the year after that Paul is likely gone.

But it's not like we will have cap space to sign a star until possibly after Paul is gone but it might depend on what we pay the Cams...unless we want to trade someone on our core despite them winning a title together as a young core (doubtful).

I don't think it's about getting a star player, we definitely don't have that kind of money. Its about the difference between getting a guy on a minimum and getting an MLE quality guy for our rotation, while avoiding serious luxury tax implications.

Do we go get Kelly Olynyk for the MLE to replace Saric?
Could we convince a Richuan Holmes to play for the MLE?
Do you get a Josh Richardson? A Tony Snell? a Will Barton? to be our backup for Devin Booker.

It's that level of guy, making us deeper and giving us even more options on offense and defense that we'd be looking at with the MLE.

Or conversely, it's being able to have the ability to dip into part of the MLE money and making sure we get the guy we want, instead of only being able to offer a minimum contract and hope that the situation in PHX has enough appeal.

Or, in terms of the DPE...it's a question of, do we offer Pick #29+DPE to Milwaukee for Bobby Portis?

It's about giving us options and continuing to get deeper. We saw in the regular season our inability to settle on a 4th guard in the rotation as we cycled through Galloway, Moore and Carter. We saw Frank in and out of the rotation. And now we have Saric's minutes to fill.

Payne and Craig hopefully come back, but even then we are only 8 deep as currently constructed, and Monty has shown the desire to go 10 deep.

No one is saying we get DeMar Derozan to sign here, it's more about finding high quality guys to fill in some of our 6-10th man minutes.

I don't think know that we will use the MLE or all of it if it puts us in the tax if we know we are in the tax the following year. Plus a good player who wants minutes or could start would likely not get a lot of minutes if you want our starting 5 and the Cam's to get a lot of minutes, especially if we keep Craig. Craig was already eating into Saric's minutes.

Now if there is an Olynyk type that doesn't get an offer and we could stay under the tax, I think we could or should try a one year deal...both sides might want it.

Holmes isn't going to take a MLE deal to play like 15 minutes a night. He's a legit starting C.

I don't know why we are looking for someone who would likely want or get major minutes when we have a team on the cusp of a championship with a bunch of young players improving.

[Barkley6]

I've seen other posters post this and it might be nice if we had unlimited cap space, no repeater tax, etc, unless you are talking stars playing for minimum.

We will already have a tough time working out paying for CP3, Book, Ayton, Bridges and Cam, though luckily things work out in a way we probably only play the luxury tax for one year.

The first year Ayton/Bridges extensions kick in and we still have Crowder/Saric. The following year those two are gone and the year after that Paul is likely gone.

But it's not like we will have cap space to sign a star until possibly after Paul is gone but it might depend on what we pay the Cams...unless we want to trade someone on our core despite them winning a title together as a young core (doubtful).

I don't think it's about getting a star player, we definitely don't have that kind of money. Its about the difference between getting a guy on a minimum and getting an MLE quality guy for our rotation, while avoiding serious luxury tax implications.

Do we go get Kelly Olynyk for the MLE to replace Saric?
Could we convince a Richuan Holmes to play for the MLE?
Do you get a Josh Richardson? A Tony Snell? a Will Barton? to be our backup for Devin Booker.

It's that level of guy, making us deeper and giving us even more options on offense and defense that we'd be looking at with the MLE.

Or conversely, it's being able to have the ability to dip into part of the MLE money and making sure we get the guy we want, instead of only being able to offer a minimum contract and hope that the situation in PHX has enough appeal.

Or, in terms of the DPE...it's a question of, do we offer Pick #29+DPE to Milwaukee for Bobby Portis?

It's about giving us options and continuing to get deeper. We saw in the regular season our inability to settle on a 4th guard in the rotation as we cycled through Galloway, Moore and Carter. We saw Frank in and out of the rotation. And now we have Saric's minutes to fill.

Payne and Craig hopefully come back, but even then we are only 8 deep as currently constructed, and Monty has shown the desire to go 10 deep.

No one is saying we get DeMar Derozan to sign here, it's more about finding high quality guys to fill in some of our 6-10th man minutes.

I don't think know that we will use the MLE or all of it if it puts us in the tax if we know we are in the tax the following year. Plus a good player who wants minutes or could start would likely not get a lot of minutes if you want our starting 5 and the Cam's to get a lot of minutes, especially if we keep Craig. Craig was already eating into Saric's minutes.

Now if there is an Olynyk type that doesn't get an offer and we could stay under the tax, I think we could or should try a one year deal...both sides might want it.

Holmes isn't going to take a MLE deal to play like 15 minutes a night. He's a legit starting C.

I don't know why we are looking for someone who would likely want or get major minutes when we have a team on the cusp of a championship with a bunch of young players improving.

Because in this league, if you're standing still, you're falling behind. If nothing else, we have all of Saric's minutes to replace, and despite being on the cusp of winning it all, we do have some areas for improvement.

The idea is to make us repeat contenders and not let this just be one historic run. We do that by improving the roster.

It's not like I'm saying blow the team up, or trade one of our key pieces. I'm saying let's improve on Kaminsky, Moore, Galloway, Carter and Nader. I'm saying let's find an adequate replacement for Dario.

That shouldn't be a bold statement.

[BobbieL]

Even with or without the Championship I foresee the Suns as a Star destination again (aka 1990s). Winning does that. I see a low key great player wanting to come to the Suns on a lower salary. That’s the benefit of winning. Winning attracts stars and good players.

I've seen other posters post this and it might be nice if we had unlimited cap space, no repeater tax, etc, unless you are talking stars playing for minimum.

We will already have a tough time working out paying for CP3, Book, Ayton, Bridges and Cam, though luckily things work out in a way we probably only play the luxury tax for one year.

The first year Ayton/Bridges extensions kick in and we still have Crowder/Saric. The following year those two are gone and the year after that Paul is likely gone.

But it's not like we will have cap space to sign a star until possibly after Paul is gone but it might depend on what we pay the Cams...unless we want to trade someone on our core despite them winning a title together as a young core (doubtful).

I don't think it's about getting a star player, we definitely don't have that kind of money. Its about the difference between getting a guy on a minimum and getting an MLE quality guy for our rotation, while avoiding serious luxury tax implications.

Do we go get Kelly Olynyk for the MLE to replace Saric?
Could we convince a Richuan Holmes to play for the MLE?
Do you get a Josh Richardson? A Tony Snell? a Will Barton? to be our backup for Devin Booker.

It's that level of guy, making us deeper and giving us even more options on offense and defense that we'd be looking at with the MLE.

Or conversely, it's being able to have the ability to dip into part of the MLE money and making sure we get the guy we want, instead of only being able to offer a minimum contract and hope that the situation in PHX has enough appeal.

Or, in terms of the DPE...it's a question of, do we offer Pick #29+DPE to Milwaukee for Bobby Portis?

It's about giving us options and continuing to get deeper. We saw in the regular season our inability to settle on a 4th guard in the rotation as we cycled through Galloway, Moore and Carter. We saw Frank in and out of the rotation. And now we have Saric's minutes to fill.

Payne and Craig hopefully come back, but even then we are only 8 deep as currently constructed, and Monty has shown the desire to go 10 deep.

No one is saying we get DeMar Derozan to sign here, it's more about finding high quality guys to fill in some of our 6-10th man minutes.

I agree - the Suns do not need a start player. I just wanta better bench - if possible. And with the MLE, BAE, maybe using the Bird Rights for Payne plus a possible injury salary slot for Saric - I think the Suns can improve the depth.

I think the Suns have shown that with Paul and Booker as the top guys, plus Ayton, Bridges, Crowder and Cam J - they have a good solid core. Now its just about - Can you get Craig and Payne back? What veterans can you sign that will help the bench more than say Moore, Galloway and Kaminsky. Granted, Moore and Langston were very good vets for the team but still

I am not expecting a Derozan. But like you said - just upgrading spots that second unit if possible.

[Barkley6]

I've seen other posters post this and it might be nice if we had unlimited cap space, no repeater tax, etc, unless you are talking stars playing for minimum.

We will already have a tough time working out paying for CP3, Book, Ayton, Bridges and Cam, though luckily things work out in a way we probably only play the luxury tax for one year.

The first year Ayton/Bridges extensions kick in and we still have Crowder/Saric. The following year those two are gone and the year after that Paul is likely gone.

But it's not like we will have cap space to sign a star until possibly after Paul is gone but it might depend on what we pay the Cams...unless we want to trade someone on our core despite them winning a title together as a young core (doubtful).

I don't think it's about getting a star player, we definitely don't have that kind of money. Its about the difference between getting a guy on a minimum and getting an MLE quality guy for our rotation, while avoiding serious luxury tax implications.

Do we go get Kelly Olynyk for the MLE to replace Saric?
Could we convince a Richuan Holmes to play for the MLE?
Do you get a Josh Richardson? A Tony Snell? a Will Barton? to be our backup for Devin Booker.

It's that level of guy, making us deeper and giving us even more options on offense and defense that we'd be looking at with the MLE.

Or conversely, it's being able to have the ability to dip into part of the MLE money and making sure we get the guy we want, instead of only being able to offer a minimum contract and hope that the situation in PHX has enough appeal.

Or, in terms of the DPE...it's a question of, do we offer Pick #29+DPE to Milwaukee for Bobby Portis?

It's about giving us options and continuing to get deeper. We saw in the regular season our inability to settle on a 4th guard in the rotation as we cycled through Galloway, Moore and Carter. We saw Frank in and out of the rotation. And now we have Saric's minutes to fill.

Payne and Craig hopefully come back, but even then we are only 8 deep as currently constructed, and Monty has shown the desire to go 10 deep.

No one is saying we get DeMar Derozan to sign here, it's more about finding high quality guys to fill in some of our 6-10th man minutes.

I agree - the Suns do not need a start player. I just wanta better bench - if possible. And with the MLE, BAE, maybe using the Bird Rights for Payne plus a possible injury salary slot for Saric - I think the Suns can improve the depth.

I think the Suns have shown that with Paul and Booker as the top guys, plus Ayton, Bridges, Crowder and Cam J - they have a good solid core. Now its just about - Can you get Craig and Payne back? What veterans can you sign that will help the bench more than say Moore, Galloway and Kaminsky. Granted, Moore and Langston were very good vets for the team but still

I am not expecting a Derozan. But like you said - just upgrading spots that second unit if possible.

Exactly. We struggled to find a 4th guard to play minutes when Book and Paul sat at the same time. Maybe the recency of the playoffs when that doesn't ever happen has made us forget, but none of Moore, Galloway or Carter were able to really lock down those minutes. And as Paul ages, he's going to need to longer in game rest. Finding someone to play that spot is really important. Signing a Tony Snell or Will Barton, who are 29/30 respectively, fits in well with the Galloway/Moore type mold (good veteran shooters), the only difference is both of them have good size at the 2 guard, and can play a little 3 when needed, which helps us not get picked on by playing Payne and another small guard.

We need to find a big man to play the Saric minutes. To me, that list should start with Olynyk as he's the closest thing out there to Saric's game, and he seems like a great fit for our team. Would I love to bring in Holmes? Of course. Is the MLE close to the value of contracts that have been given out to non All-Star centers in recent years? yes. So why not make a push for him? With Saric out, it would not be difficult to carve out 25mpg for Holmes. Would it be best case scenario that Stix steps up and becomes the player James Jones thought he could be? Of course. But we won't know that during Free Agency this year, so we need to make sure we have someone in place in case Stix isn't ready.

The "just bring everyone back and run it back" is a prosaic notion that is going to lead to us being figured out and surpassed by other teams. We already know Denver will be better with Murray back. Utah is a good team. The Clippers are a good team. Golden State will be better when healthy. The Lakers will be better when healthy. Portland is going to make big moves. Dallas has the tools to build around Doncic.

That's 7 teams that are going to be gunning for us. If we don't take the necessary steps to get better, we'll be looking at a second round exit.

[Stark]

Olynk is more of a sure thing but he can be expensive. I'd give someone like Mo Wagner a shot.

[bigfoot]

This offseason is the time to add another quality-free agent as a bench sparkplug. The MLE should attract a Crowder-like player to bolster the bench. The DPE will get another playable vet. Sarver should just re-up CP3 and worry about the consequences later. No need to worry about saving cap space since Booker, Ayton, Paul, Bridges, and probably Johnson will be getting most of it. Any other big-name player we get will come via a trade, not free agency.