Post, discuss all NYK rumors, tweets, articles, hearsay

[nykballa2k4]

Every team in nba fears NYK getting Cp3

Including Knicks fans

[NYK-Mentality85]

Every team in nba fears NYK getting Cp3

Including Knicks fans

No thanks.

I'd rather not become the fan base who's forced to watch his soon to be steep decline while also watching his body physically break down overnight.

Because he's 36 years old (1st NBA Finals appearances) and Father time is still undefeated (unless you're Tom Brady he must've cheated the fountain of youth too).

No thnx on CP3.

[nykballa2k4]

Every team in nba fears NYK getting Cp3

Including Knicks fans

No thanks.

I'd rather not become the fan base who's forced to watch his soon to be steep decline while also watching his body physically break down overnight.

Because he's 36 years old (1st NBA Finals appearances) and Father time is still undefeated (unless you're Tom Brady he must've cheated the fountain of youth too).

No thnx on CP3.

What you meant to say was and1 NYKballa2k4.

Never forget

[moocow007]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

[iLLmatic860]

Including Knicks fans

No thanks.

I'd rather not become the fan base who's forced to watch his soon to be steep decline while also watching his body physically break down overnight.

Because he's 36 years old (1st NBA Finals appearances) and Father time is still undefeated (unless you're Tom Brady he must've cheated the fountain of youth too).

No thnx on CP3.

What you meant to say was and1 NYKballa2k4.

Never forget

Ugh watched that live lol. He just collapsed on the floor with no contact. Knicks curse is undefeated

[sol537]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

Lowry is the guy. Better defender than Conley and more durable (so far). Proven winner. 2 years, healthy salary... give him the keys and ask him to take us to the next level like CP3 did with his teams.

You start with Lowry, RJ, Randle, and Mitch and then add great fitting pieces around them. Rose is one. And we got 3 draft picks to add even more. Pluss additional cap.

[nykballa2k4]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

Safest bet is D Rose. If the Knicks are serious about waiting for a Beal or a Kawhi, they are not going after a Lowry, Conley, Paul. I don't think Pelicans let Ball walk away for free. I don't think we have a good asset-match for the Spurs with Murray (though maybe we do) and SGA is only on the block for Cade. Dinwiddie gave the Nets a fair offer so I have him off the table too. Schroder is terrible.
Re-sign Rose to a cap-friendly deal (maybe 3 years, third year TO, max decrease each year, 3/30 so something like 12 this year, 10 next, 8 year after. Extend Mitch early so his cap number is lower next summer. Go from there.

Obviously some of us are hoping for one of Mann, Butler, Cooper (my vote has been cast already) so that's off the bench.
Mitch/Noel
Randle/Obi
Oubre/Bullock/Belgium-guy
RJ/IQ
Rose/Cooper (since we don't care about shooting and I never get what I want)
This is a "most likely" summer to me. Perhaps a JJ Redick, perhaps a Fournier

[Bob Ross]

I'm here for Lowry

[moocow007]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

Safest bet is D Rose. If the Knicks are serious about waiting for a Beal or a Kawhi, they are not going after a Lowry, Conley, Paul. I don't think Pelicans let Ball walk away for free. I don't think we have a good asset-match for the Spurs with Murray (though maybe we do) and SGA is only on the block for Cade. Dinwiddie gave the Nets a fair offer so I have him off the table too. Schroder is terrible.
Re-sign Rose to a cap-friendly deal (maybe 3 years, third year TO, max decrease each year, 3/30 so something like 12 this year, 10 next, 8 year after. Extend Mitch early so his cap number is lower next summer. Go from there.

Obviously some of us are hoping for one of Mann, Butler, Cooper (my vote has been cast already) so that's off the bench.
Mitch/Noel
Randle/Obi
Oubre/Bullock/Belgium-guy
RJ/IQ
Rose/Cooper (since we don't care about shooting and I never get what I want)
This is a "most likely" summer to me. Perhaps a JJ Redick, perhaps a Fournier

DRose couldn't make it through the Hawks playoffs series playing starting PG minutes (lasted 2.5 games), it's highly unlikely he'll make it through what likely will be a full 82 game season (plus playoffs) as the Knicks starting PG. IMO it's just not realistic. He's best as the 6th (or 7th) man off the bench (he will be yet another year older). Rose himself has said that he isn't fit for heavy minute roles so I would expect that neither the Knicks nor Rose would be open to that idea.

[nykballa2k4]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

Safest bet is D Rose. If the Knicks are serious about waiting for a Beal or a Kawhi, they are not going after a Lowry, Conley, Paul. I don't think Pelicans let Ball walk away for free. I don't think we have a good asset-match for the Spurs with Murray (though maybe we do) and SGA is only on the block for Cade. Dinwiddie gave the Nets a fair offer so I have him off the table too. Schroder is terrible.
Re-sign Rose to a cap-friendly deal (maybe 3 years, third year TO, max decrease each year, 3/30 so something like 12 this year, 10 next, 8 year after. Extend Mitch early so his cap number is lower next summer. Go from there.

Obviously some of us are hoping for one of Mann, Butler, Cooper (my vote has been cast already) so that's off the bench.
Mitch/Noel
Randle/Obi
Oubre/Bullock/Belgium-guy
RJ/IQ
Rose/Cooper (since we don't care about shooting and I never get what I want)
This is a "most likely" summer to me. Perhaps a JJ Redick, perhaps a Fournier

DRose couldn't make it through the Hawks playoffs series playing starting PG minutes (lasted 2.5 games), it's highly unlikely he'll make it through what likely will be a full 82 game season (plus playoffs) as the Knicks starting PG. IMO it's just not realistic. He's best as the 6th (or 7th) man off the bench (he will be yet another year older). Rose himself has said that he isn't fit for heavy minute roles so I would expect that neither the Knicks nor Rose would be open to that idea.

I dont think we are making a finals run next year. Rose is fine for a platoon starting point guard. He will miss some games for load management and the main reason it didn't work vs the Hawks was because a) the defense was not anchored and b) we had no scoring/shot creators off the bench. If RJ was playing well, if Randle was efficient these are non-issues.

I think we agree on the level of player Rose is. We differ in expectations of the team I think.

[Kampuchea]

If the New York Knicks are able to position themselves for a superstar trade, they will not consider RJ Barrett to be "untouchable."

The Knicks have interest in trading for Damian Lillard should he become available.

Barrett averaged 17.6 points, 5.8 rebounds and 3.0 assists while shooting 40.1 percent on three-pointers during his second NBA season. The Knicks selected Barrett second overall in 2019 out of Duke.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/263297/Knicks-Dont-Consider-RJ-Barrett-Untouchable-If-Trading-For-Superstar

You just posted a Berman. Why would you do that?

j/k, i know why

[thebuzzardman]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

Lowry is the guy. Better defender than Conley and more durable (so far). Proven winner. 2 years, healthy salary... give him the keys and ask him to take us to the next level like CP3 did with his teams.

You start with Lowry, RJ, Randle, and Mitch and then add great fitting pieces around them. Rose is one. And we got 3 draft picks to add even more. Pluss additional cap.

I want to raise an issue that comes up when CP3 or Lowry or Conley comes up.

First off lets get out of the way that all 3 would be great for the Knicks at PG and vastly improve the starting PG job.

But the potential selling point of all 3 is that they probably will take a 2 year deal, though I'm not sure of that with CP3 anymore.
Anyway, the 2 year deal is touted for cap flexibility, and I get the feeling that is stated with the idea that after 2 years, Knicks can sign another guy etc.

But can they?

Again, let me get out of the way that I'm fan of 3 years instead of 4 and 2 years instead of 3 every time.
But within that 2 year window, we have to sort of assume Randle gets extended or maxed - with the somewhat different salary ramifications, and RJ gets his first good sized deal. Mitch may or may not be up for an extension.
Players like Ball or Sexton or Powell or Beal or Fournier might be on the team as well. I mean, I hope we are doing more than signing Conley or Lowry.

Feels like even if you sign these guys for 2 years, after 2 years Knicks are still capped out.
Again, the more flexibility the better, but I wonder how much flexibility the Knicks are going to have for the next 4 years, minus trades.

Discuss.

[god shammgod]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

Lowry is the guy. Better defender than Conley and more durable (so far). Proven winner. 2 years, healthy salary... give him the keys and ask him to take us to the next level like CP3 did with his teams.

You start with Lowry, RJ, Randle, and Mitch and then add great fitting pieces around them. Rose is one. And we got 3 draft picks to add even more. Pluss additional cap.

I want to raise an issue that comes up when CP3 or Lowry or Conley comes up.

First off lets get out of the way that all 3 would be great for the Knicks at PG and vastly improve the starting PG job.

But the potential selling point of all 3 is that they probably will take a 2 year deal, though I'm not sure of that with CP3 anymore.
Anyway, the 2 year deal is touted for cap flexibility, and I get the feeling that is stated with the idea that after 2 years, Knicks can sign another guy etc.

But can they?

Again, let me get out of the way that I'm fan of 3 years instead of 4 and 2 years instead of 3 every time.
But within that 2 year window, we have to sort of assume Randle gets extended or maxed - with the somewhat different salary ramifications, and RJ gets his first good sized deal. Mitch may or may not be up for an extension.
Players like Ball or Sexton or Powell or Beal or Fournier might be on the team as well. I mean, I hope we are doing more than signing Conley or Lowry.

Feels like even if you sign these guys for 2 years, after 2 years Knicks are still capped out.
Again, the more flexibility the better, but I wonder how much flexibility the Knicks are going to have for the next 4 years, minus trades.

Discuss.

once you pay randle you're f*cked. you'd have to strip the roster down to sign anyone else significant. you have this summer and next to sign someone of merit. it's why some of us think that maybe you should trade randle and get back in the lottery. it's not about being pro tank or anti-randle, it's about being realistic about being capped out with these guys as our best players. there's a thread now on this board about tanking and the merits of it. i think it misses the point. tanking or not tanking is not really important. what is important is getting stars. how you get them is mostly inconsequential. if you're both capped out and you're not getting high picks now either because you're good enough not to get them, you've eliminated two avenues to get stars. now the only avenue left is trade which is the least cost-effective way of acquiring one and leaves you too asset depleted to acquire a second one.

[Nazrmohamed]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

Lowry is the guy. Better defender than Conley and more durable (so far). Proven winner. 2 years, healthy salary... give him the keys and ask him to take us to the next level like CP3 did with his teams.

You start with Lowry, RJ, Randle, and Mitch and then add great fitting pieces around them. Rose is one. And we got 3 draft picks to add even more. Pluss additional cap.

I want to raise an issue that comes up when CP3 or Lowry or Conley comes up.

First off lets get out of the way that all 3 would be great for the Knicks at PG and vastly improve the starting PG job.

But the potential selling point of all 3 is that they probably will take a 2 year deal, though I'm not sure of that with CP3 anymore.
Anyway, the 2 year deal is touted for cap flexibility, and I get the feeling that is stated with the idea that after 2 years, Knicks can sign another guy etc.

But can they?

Again, let me get out of the way that I'm fan of 3 years instead of 4 and 2 years instead of 3 every time.
But within that 2 year window, we have to sort of assume Randle gets extended or maxed - with the somewhat different salary ramifications, and RJ gets his first good sized deal. Mitch may or may not be up for an extension.
Players like Ball or Sexton or Powell or Beal or Fournier might be on the team as well. I mean, I hope we are doing more than signing Conley or Lowry.

Feels like even if you sign these guys for 2 years, after 2 years Knicks are still capped out.
Again, the more flexibility the better, but I wonder how much flexibility the Knicks are going to have for the next 4 years, minus trades.

Discuss.

2 yr deal, 1 yr deal, 1/2 yr. It don't matter. You bring a PG in here and pay him more per yr than Randle and Randles gonna decline his extention and expect as much as he can in FA. Now for some fans that's perfectly fine with them. If it's CP3 I really dont care what Randke wants. I truly believe that CP3 is the type of player who turns your potential into thier finished products or puts them well on thier way.

However outside of that I rather a PG who is around the same age as our young core, maybe a few yrs older that I'll have for the next 5 yrs. And that's why I still like your Lonzos and Sextons along with a bunch of guys who right now aren't being discussed but you never know until draft night, when draft picks effect what teams think of thoer own guys.

[Nazrmohamed]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

Lowry is the guy. Better defender than Conley and more durable (so far). Proven winner. 2 years, healthy salary... give him the keys and ask him to take us to the next level like CP3 did with his teams.

You start with Lowry, RJ, Randle, and Mitch and then add great fitting pieces around them. Rose is one. And we got 3 draft picks to add even more. Pluss additional cap.

I want to raise an issue that comes up when CP3 or Lowry or Conley comes up.

First off lets get out of the way that all 3 would be great for the Knicks at PG and vastly improve the starting PG job.

But the potential selling point of all 3 is that they probably will take a 2 year deal, though I'm not sure of that with CP3 anymore.
Anyway, the 2 year deal is touted for cap flexibility, and I get the feeling that is stated with the idea that after 2 years, Knicks can sign another guy etc.

But can they?

Again, let me get out of the way that I'm fan of 3 years instead of 4 and 2 years instead of 3 every time.
But within that 2 year window, we have to sort of assume Randle gets extended or maxed - with the somewhat different salary ramifications, and RJ gets his first good sized deal. Mitch may or may not be up for an extension.
Players like Ball or Sexton or Powell or Beal or Fournier might be on the team as well. I mean, I hope we are doing more than signing Conley or Lowry.

Feels like even if you sign these guys for 2 years, after 2 years Knicks are still capped out.
Again, the more flexibility the better, but I wonder how much flexibility the Knicks are going to have for the next 4 years, minus trades.

Discuss.

2 yr deal, 1 yr deal, 1/2 yr. It don't matter. You bring a PG in here and pay him more per yr than Randle and Randles gonna decline his extention and expect as much as he can in FA. Now for some fans that's perfectly fine with them. If it's CP3 I really dont care what Randke wants. I truly believe that CP3 is the type of player who turns your potential into thier finished products or puts them well on thier way.

However outside of that I rather a PG who is around the same age as our young core, maybe a few yrs older that I'll have for the next 5 yrs. And that's why I still like your Lonzos and Sextons along with a bunch of guys who right now aren't being discussed but you never know until draft night, when draft picks effect what teams think of thoer own guys.

This not to say I would hate Lowry or Conley, I just can't get excited over them.

[moocow007]

Safest bet is D Rose. If the Knicks are serious about waiting for a Beal or a Kawhi, they are not going after a Lowry, Conley, Paul. I don't think Pelicans let Ball walk away for free. I don't think we have a good asset-match for the Spurs with Murray (though maybe we do) and SGA is only on the block for Cade. Dinwiddie gave the Nets a fair offer so I have him off the table too. Schroder is terrible.
Re-sign Rose to a cap-friendly deal (maybe 3 years, third year TO, max decrease each year, 3/30 so something like 12 this year, 10 next, 8 year after. Extend Mitch early so his cap number is lower next summer. Go from there.

Obviously some of us are hoping for one of Mann, Butler, Cooper (my vote has been cast already) so that's off the bench.
Mitch/Noel
Randle/Obi
Oubre/Bullock/Belgium-guy
RJ/IQ
Rose/Cooper (since we don't care about shooting and I never get what I want)
This is a "most likely" summer to me. Perhaps a JJ Redick, perhaps a Fournier

DRose couldn't make it through the Hawks playoffs series playing starting PG minutes (lasted 2.5 games), it's highly unlikely he'll make it through what likely will be a full 82 game season (plus playoffs) as the Knicks starting PG. IMO it's just not realistic. He's best as the 6th (or 7th) man off the bench (he will be yet another year older). Rose himself has said that he isn't fit for heavy minute roles so I would expect that neither the Knicks nor Rose would be open to that idea.

I dont think we are making a finals run next year. Rose is fine for a platoon starting point guard. He will miss some games for load management and the main reason it didn't work vs the Hawks was because a) the defense was not anchored and b) we had no scoring/shot creators off the bench. If RJ was playing well, if Randle was efficient these are non-issues.

I think we agree on the level of player Rose is. We differ in expectations of the team I think.

That's not the point (a finals run). You're trying to improve and CLEARLY the biggest position of need from an improvement standpoint is starting PG. So how do you exactly IMPROVE when you just bring back the guy that everyone (apparently except you) realize CANNOT play starting PG minutes as your starting PG? That's not improving...that's punting (at best) the biggest positional need. There's no reason for this at all...at all. Just because you can't win a championship doesn't mean you give up and punt another year. And if the Knicks don't come up with something more than Derek Rose as a platoon PG (with whom? IQ?) they might as well just give up.

[moocow007]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

Lowry is the guy. Better defender than Conley and more durable (so far). Proven winner. 2 years, healthy salary... give him the keys and ask him to take us to the next level like CP3 did with his teams.

You start with Lowry, RJ, Randle, and Mitch and then add great fitting pieces around them. Rose is one. And we got 3 draft picks to add even more. Pluss additional cap.

I want to raise an issue that comes up when CP3 or Lowry or Conley comes up.

First off lets get out of the way that all 3 would be great for the Knicks at PG and vastly improve the starting PG job.

But the potential selling point of all 3 is that they probably will take a 2 year deal, though I'm not sure of that with CP3 anymore.
Anyway, the 2 year deal is touted for cap flexibility, and I get the feeling that is stated with the idea that after 2 years, Knicks can sign another guy etc.

But can they?

Again, let me get out of the way that I'm fan of 3 years instead of 4 and 2 years instead of 3 every time.
But within that 2 year window, we have to sort of assume Randle gets extended or maxed - with the somewhat different salary ramifications, and RJ gets his first good sized deal. Mitch may or may not be up for an extension.
Players like Ball or Sexton or Powell or Beal or Fournier might be on the team as well. I mean, I hope we are doing more than signing Conley or Lowry.

Feels like even if you sign these guys for 2 years, after 2 years Knicks are still capped out.
Again, the more flexibility the better, but I wonder how much flexibility the Knicks are going to have for the next 4 years, minus trades.

Discuss.

It would, under this approach behoove the Knicks to try to get Randle to agree to an extension. Not only is the dollar amount per less the duration is less. That would create more flexibility by default. IF you are going to go for a guy like Lowry or Conley then you are saying that we are trying to do something now. No adding either guy won't give you a championship but it will make your team better than the team this past season. Called improvement. What that does is it makes this team more attractive, more of a winner. To what end? I don't know, but to the end that being more attractive and viewed as more of a legit organization will get you. IF that's the goal of this front office then that would be a smart move. Now if that's not the goal of this front office, then obviously it doesn't make sense to go after either guy unless for some reason Conley is willing to take a 1+1 (maybe big dollar this upcoming season with a team option for the next)? "Big dollar" is relative to the market (before anyone panics).

Now if the Knicks feel the need to "line up" whomever they get with their current core then fine. But folks need to open up their eyes and realize that NO ONE is going to trade a top tier PG in their prime for the 3 2021 1st round picks and Kevin Knox LOL. The Bulls aren't trading Zach LaVine for that "Knick Fan Fantasy" package, the Blazers aren't trading Damian Lillard for that package, the Thunder aren't trading SGA for that package, etc., etc., etc. It's funny cause the same folks that don't want guys like Lowry or Conley for basically no asset cost seem to think they can keep the valuable Knick assets and get one of the clearly BETTER guys. They want much better but aren't willing to trade what it takes. And then when you throw that ice water at them, then it's the just play Rose and IQ at PG then.

[Jeffrey]

Safest bet (if you guys are betting) on who the next PG for the Knicks will be is clearly IMO either Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.

Working in the Knicks favor (for either)?

1. Does not look like either will be returning to their current teams - Lowry IMO is clearly done with Toronto (mutual thing). I know the Jazz has said they will do whatever they can to keep Conley but the reality is that they are going to be well over the cap even if they let Conley walk so are they really going to give Conley the type of contract he can probably make on the open market (along with the massive tax hit as well)? I don't see it.

2. Neither guy will get long term max deals - assuming the Knicks will be looking to maintain as much flexibility as possible I don't see either guy as needing anything more than a 2 year deal and neither will be getting anywhere near the max. So if they go this route it should still give themselves room for now and flexibility for later.

3. Lack of teams with both capspace and need for guys like these - there are really not a whole lot of teams out there in need of Lowry or Conley who ALSO have the cap space which makes signing them to more reasonable offers more possible while limiting the number of teams that could 'swipe' them.

Either guy would be an immediate and significant upgrade at the starting PG position for the Knicks and offer them the best starting PG they've had since 2 weeks of Jeremy Lin?

I would not bank on Lillard or CP3 or SGA or any such thing. Lonzo Ball MAY be possible but he's going to require a much longer commitment (and possibly bigger per year) and I'm not sure the Knicks FO will favor that.

Lowry is the guy. Better defender than Conley and more durable (so far). Proven winner. 2 years, healthy salary... give him the keys and ask him to take us to the next level like CP3 did with his teams.

You start with Lowry, RJ, Randle, and Mitch and then add great fitting pieces around them. Rose is one. And we got 3 draft picks to add even more. Pluss additional cap.

That additional cap is for his best from Demar Derozen. Man, I miss Game of Zones.

[nykballa2k4]

DRose couldn't make it through the Hawks playoffs series playing starting PG minutes (lasted 2.5 games), it's highly unlikely he'll make it through what likely will be a full 82 game season (plus playoffs) as the Knicks starting PG. IMO it's just not realistic. He's best as the 6th (or 7th) man off the bench (he will be yet another year older). Rose himself has said that he isn't fit for heavy minute roles so I would expect that neither the Knicks nor Rose would be open to that idea.

I dont think we are making a finals run next year. Rose is fine for a platoon starting point guard. He will miss some games for load management and the main reason it didn't work vs the Hawks was because a) the defense was not anchored and b) we had no scoring/shot creators off the bench. If RJ was playing well, if Randle was efficient these are non-issues.

I think we agree on the level of player Rose is. We differ in expectations of the team I think.

That's not the point (a finals run). You're trying to improve and CLEARLY the biggest position of need from an improvement standpoint is starting PG. So how do you exactly IMPROVE when you just bring back the guy that everyone (apparently except you) realize CANNOT play starting PG minutes as your starting PG? That's not improving...that's punting (at best) the biggest positional need. There's no reason for this at all...at all. Just because you can't win a championship doesn't mean you give up and punt another year. And if the Knicks don't come up with something more than Derek Rose as a platoon PG (with whom? IQ?) they might as well just give up.

We have two picks in the 1st. We signed Vildozer. IQ could play minutes at point guard. There is always a possibility to bring back Frank or even Elf for a year. Maybe we get a SRP off the Hawks to take on Dunn? There are a ton of 'meh' options. sometimes it's better to hit pause than make a purchase and wait for a better time to buy. Your perspective is completely legitimate that we need to upgrade at point guard to keep up with the Jones's. Also legitimate is the idea maybe we don't take that step and see if we can make a leap past them in a years time.

[thebuzzardman]

I dont think we are making a finals run next year. Rose is fine for a platoon starting point guard. He will miss some games for load management and the main reason it didn't work vs the Hawks was because a) the defense was not anchored and b) we had no scoring/shot creators off the bench. If RJ was playing well, if Randle was efficient these are non-issues.

I think we agree on the level of player Rose is. We differ in expectations of the team I think.

That's not the point (a finals run). You're trying to improve and CLEARLY the biggest position of need from an improvement standpoint is starting PG. So how do you exactly IMPROVE when you just bring back the guy that everyone (apparently except you) realize CANNOT play starting PG minutes as your starting PG? That's not improving...that's punting (at best) the biggest positional need. There's no reason for this at all...at all. Just because you can't win a championship doesn't mean you give up and punt another year. And if the Knicks don't come up with something more than Derek Rose as a platoon PG (with whom? IQ?) they might as well just give up.

We have two picks in the 1st. We signed Vildozer. IQ could play minutes at point guard. There is always a possibility to bring back Frank or even Elf for a year. Maybe we get a SRP off the Hawks to take on Dunn? There are a ton of 'meh' options. sometimes it's better to hit pause than make a purchase and wait for a better time to buy. Your perspective is completely legitimate that we need to upgrade at point guard to keep up with the Jones's. Also legitimate is the idea maybe we don't take that step and see if we can make a leap past them in a years time.

How DARE you even contemplate that!