Re: Sexton Convo, Update PG: 15 - Knicks most aggressive suitor

[Trademarkk]

Sexton is such fool's gold as an individual player, let alone fit concerns with Sexton/Randle/Barrett.

Randle was fools wood before this year, coaching goes far and so far sexton's had booty cheeks for coaches

I have to Agree coaching matters. However, i dont like Collin Sexton at 30 million per. Just my opinion.

If you have his rights as a RFA then you can let him set his market, and match whatever is offered. We don’t need to offer the max right out the gate to keep him.

[GONYK]

We won 41 games with Elfrid Payton.

I don't see an argument on how Sexton isn't an improvement on that.

At the very minimum, he will play the same role, provide the same level of defense and passing, but with actual scoring production. That is if he shows no improvement with better coaching and teammates.

That is a better team

Not if we lose Obi and picks 19 and 21 it's not.

And if anything happens to Julius Randle @ PF due to an injury it'll become a disaster trade.

[B]Obi Toppin (PF).
#19: Sharife Cooper (PG).
# 21: Tre Mann (SG).

Has 10x more potential than Sexton and those 3 players make us a better team than "Sexton" would.

I'm less interested in potential and more interested in production. Especially since Sexton is young himself.

Keeping Obi Toppin isn't worth it just to have an insurance policy in case Julius Randle, who has a stellar health history aside from his rookie season, goes down.

[GONYK]

Just admit drafting Obi over my pick Hali was dumb by Leon and you don't mind maxing Sexton. Those who don't mind maxing him, you get your flowers bc you truly believe in him.

Why is the assumption that he will be MAX'ed?

Players who are valued at a max deal around the league don't get traded for Obi Toppin and a late 1st.

The Knicks are going to tell Sexton to go get the best deal he can and they will match. There isn't a reason to think, right now, that he will be able to find a MAX deal.

If he can, it's because he showed major improvement this season, which is great for us.

If we trade for him we intend to pay him. If you dont want to extend him in October fine. Then we will possibly have 2 max eligible guys in 2022.

Paying him doesn't mean MAX'ing him out. We will pay what his market value is.

You're jumping to a conclusion that assumes the Knicks will just bid against themselves for no reason.

[F N 11]

Sexton is such fool's gold as an individual player, let alone fit concerns with Sexton/Randle/Barrett.

This is what I am getting at but people only see 24PPG.

Lets be honest, people dont want to wait on their own to develop. Im not trading RJ and I dont like people throwing Obi under the bus like he was supposed to do anything as Randles backup. Ranlde became all NBA 2nd team and MIP. How is that Obi's fault? Didnt even get minutes at Center.

Sexton isn't just a volume 24 point scorer. He gets his points fairly efficiently, as opposed to most of our players, including Randle and RJ. Sexton is more efficient than both of them.

I agree that Obi didn't get a shot. Some of it is due to his lack of positional versatility, which is a problem with Randle a lock at the 4. Some of it is due to Thibs's stubborness.

I dont believe he is an inefficient scorer. i just wonder the fit with RJ and Randle. 24 PPG is 24ppg anywhere. That took hard work and dedication. Could only hope he comes in and average less PPG and his assist go up a lot while improving defense.

[Ghetto Gospel]

some of you guys in here are crazy

lonzo: "he's so young, i bet thibs and co. can turn him around. they'll make him attack the paint and teach him how to better utilize his passing skills"
sexton: "nah, all he does is shoot and he can't ever make his team better"

sexton's even younger than lonzo too

[3toheadmelo]

[N8isScofield]

My sense is that everyone here would take Donovan Mitchell. Sexton is over 2 years younger and already about 95% of what Donovan Mitchell is in spite of playing on a horrible team. If all he costs is say Obi and 1 or 2 first rounders it's an absolute no brainer. These guys do not grow on trees.

[N Y K]

We won 41 games with Elfrid Payton.

I don't see an argument on how Sexton isn't an improvement on that.

At the very minimum, he will play the same role, provide the same level of defense and passing, but with actual scoring production. That is if he shows no improvement with better coaching and teammates.

That is a better team

Not if we lose Obi and picks 19 and 21 it's not.

And if anything happens to Julius Randle @ PF due to an injury it'll become a disaster trade.

Obi Toppin (PF).
#19: Sharife Cooper (PG).
# 21: Tre Mann (SG).

Has 10x more potential than Sexton and those 3 players make us a better team than "Sexton" would.

To be clear, the rumor said only one of those two picks... Heck if you're not interested in winning more right now and would rather wait on potential, I got a thread I think you should read...

[KnicksGadfly]

This is what I am getting at but people only see 24PPG.

Lets be honest, people dont want to wait on their own to develop. Im not trading RJ and I dont like people throwing Obi under the bus like he was supposed to do anything as Randles backup. Ranlde became all NBA 2nd team and MIP. How is that Obi's fault? Didnt even get minutes at Center.

Sexton isn't just a volume 24 point scorer. He gets his points fairly efficiently, as opposed to most of our players, including Randle and RJ. Sexton is more efficient than both of them.

I agree that Obi didn't get a shot. Some of it is due to his lack of positional versatility, which is a problem with Randle a lock at the 4. Some of it is due to Thibs's stubborness.

I dont believe he is an inefficient scorer. i just wonder the fit with RJ and Randle. 24 PPG is 24ppg anywhere. That took hard work and dedication. Could only hope he comes in and average less PPG and his assist go up a lot while improving defense.

That’s fair. I mean 24 ppg scorers with good numbers don’t normally go on the market. He’s only on there cause he has weaknesses, some that are actually concerning. However, I’m a bit optimistic the Knicks can at least fix his defense.

If Sexton actually fixed his defense or court vision/ball pounding issues, we’d be talking about RJ in the deal, I think.

[GONYK]

Sexton is a distressed asset at a position of need with fairly efficient scoring production on a rookie deal.

That usually doesn't come around often or this cheap (if the rumored deal is true)

Plus, the Knicks would have even more capspace after this deal to make more moves.

[Knicksfan1992]

We won 41 games with Elfrid Payton.

I don't see an argument on how Sexton isn't an improvement on that.

At the very minimum, he will play the same role, provide the same level of defense and passing, but with actual scoring production. That is if he shows no improvement with better coaching and teammates.

That is a better team

It's a no brainer move IMO if you're the Knicks. Young player with upside who fills a positional need and is not at the level where you have to expunge yourself of all of your assets. Due to his team situation he may be able to be had for a cheaper price than maybe if he was in a better situation with another team. Yes he comes with flaws but he does 1 of the more important tasks in basketball efficiently at a young age which is putting the ball in the basket. If you can clean up the other aspects of his game then he becomes and all star type level player. Adding someone like that to your already young core not only improves your team on the court but gives you another good asset to have in your pocket at a level that the assets you gave up to get him probably won't reach.

Plus if the Knicks can have their PG situation settled by the time the draft is over and before free agency it kinda gives them a clearer picture as to how they want to fill out their roster the rest of the off season instead of having the PG situation be a black cloud hanging over them until they figure it out.

[NYK-Mentality85]

He plays awful against good defenses. He's an ESPN hype machine.

Sexton vs. NY

Game 1:
6/17 (.353%).
1/4 from 3 (.250%).
20 points.
4 assists.
2 rebounds.
1 steal.
-7 point differential.
Lost by 9 points (to the 2-2 Knicks team).

And...

Game 2.
6/18 (.333%).
0/4 from 3 (.000%).
17 points.
5 assists.
1 rebound.
0 steals.
-10 point differential.
Lost by 21 points (to a 9-11 Knicks team).

He played like dig crap against a Knicks team who hadn't yet gelled as a team together under Thibs and I remember watching him and asking myself what's all this hype about?

Elfrid Payton out played him 1/2 games.

PS: During the 1 game Cleveland played us without him? They actually BEAT US without him

It's a serious red flag and alarming how Cleveland is already ready to QUIT ON HIM (after only 3 years)...

[bronxknicksfan1]

Sexton isn't just a volume 24 point scorer. He gets his points fairly efficiently, as opposed to most of our players, including Randle and RJ. Sexton is more efficient than both of them.

I agree that Obi didn't get a shot. Some of it is due to his lack of positional versatility, which is a problem with Randle a lock at the 4. Some of it is due to Thibs's stubborness.

I dont believe he is an inefficient scorer. i just wonder the fit with RJ and Randle. 24 PPG is 24ppg anywhere. That took hard work and dedication. Could only hope he comes in and average less PPG and his assist go up a lot while improving defense.

That’s fair. I mean 24 ppg scorers with good numbers don’t normally go on the market. He’s only on there cause he has weaknesses, some that are actually concerning. However, I’m a bit optimistic the Knicks can at least fix his defense.

If Sexton actually fixed his defense or court vision/ball pounding issues, we’d be talking about RJ in the deal, I think.

He’s on the market because the Cavs are higher on Garland and are looking to draft either Cade or Jalen…which makes Sexton the odd man out. If it wasn’t for that, he wouldn’t be on the market. Let’s be honest here.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

Sexton is a distressed asset at a position of need with fairly efficient scoring production on a rookie deal.

That usually doesn't come around often or this cheap (if the rumored deal is true)

Plus, the Knicks would have even more capspace after this deal to make more moves.

Exactly. Folks are worried about selling low on Obi, but don't see that we'd also be buying low on Sexton.

[N8isScofield]

He plays awful against good defenses. He's an ESPN hype machine.

Sexton vs. NY

Game 1:
6/17 (.353%).
1/4 from 3 (.250%).
20 points.
4 assists.
2 rebounds.
1 steal.
-7 point differential.
Lost by 9 points (to the 2-2 Knicks team).

And...

Game 2.
6/18 (.333%).
0/4 from 3 (.000%).
17 points.
5 assists.
1 rebound.
0 steals.
-10 point differential.
Lost by 21 points (to a 9-11 Knicks team).

He played like dig crap against a Knicks team who hadn't yet gelled as a team together under Thibs and I remember watching him and asking myself what's all this hype about?

Elfrid Payton out played him 1/2 games.

PS: During the 1 game Cleveland played us without him? They actually BEAT US without him

It's a serious red flag and alarming how Cleveland is already ready to QUIT ON HIM (after only 3 years)...

Should we pull up some of RJ's splits against bad defenses? You know, the kid you compared to Kobe who is nowhere near the player Sexton is and probably won't ever be.

[3toheadmelo]

He plays awful against good defenses. He's an ESPN hype machine.

Sexton vs. NY

Game 1:
6/17 (.353%).
1/4 from 3 (.250%).
20 points.
4 assists.
2 rebounds.
1 steal.
-7 point differential.
Lost by 9 points (to the 2-2 Knicks team).

And...

Game 2.
6/18 (.333%).
0/4 from 3 (.000%).
17 points.
5 assists.
1 rebound.
0 steals.
-10 point differential.
Lost by 21 points (to a 9-11 Knicks team).

He played like dig crap against a Knicks team who hadn't yet gelled as a team together under Thibs and I remember watching him and asking myself what's all this hype about?

Elfrid Payton out played him 1/2 games.

PS: During the 1 game Cleveland played us without him? They actually BEAT US without him

It's a serious red flag and alarming how Cleveland is already ready to QUIT ON HIM (after only 3 years)...

Should we pull up some of RJ's splits against bad defenses? You know, the kid you compared to Kobe who is nowhere near the player Sexton is and probably won't ever be.

Also Collin Sexton averaged 26 PPG 6 APG on 53/44/75 splits against the Suns this year. Aka a team much better than the Knicks.

[bronxknicksfan1]

He plays awful against good defenses. He's an ESPN hype machine.

Sexton vs. NY

Game 1:
6/17 (.353%).
1/4 from 3 (.250%).
20 points.
4 assists.
2 rebounds.
1 steal.
-7 point differential.
Lost by 9 points (to the 2-2 Knicks team).

And...

Game 2.
6/18 (.333%).
0/4 from 3 (.000%).
17 points.
5 assists.
1 rebound.
0 steals.
-10 point differential.
Lost by 21 points (to a 9-11 Knicks team).

He played like dig crap against a Knicks team who hadn't yet gelled as a team together under Thibs and I remember watching him and asking myself what's all this hype about?

Elfrid Payton out played him 1/2 games.

PS: During the 1 game Cleveland played us without him? They actually BEAT US without him

It's a serious red flag and alarming how Cleveland is already ready to QUIT ON HIM (after only 3 years)...

How’d Obi do against good defenses? Did Obi even play more than 10 min against them?

[3toheadmelo]

Sexton is a distressed asset at a position of need with fairly efficient scoring production on a rookie deal.

That usually doesn't come around often or this cheap (if the rumored deal is true)

Plus, the Knicks would have even more capspace after this deal to make more moves.

Exactly. Folks are worried about selling low on Obi, but don't see that we'd also be buying low on Sexton.

Cavs fans don’t even want Obi

Read on Twitter

[Knicksfan1992]

If there's 1 position and archetype of player that I trust Thibs would know he can get the most out of it's a young attacking score first point guard. He's done it for years with Chicago and Minnesota. He always gets the most out of those guys

Rose
Augustin
Nate Rob
Jeff Teague
Rubio

If Thibs signs off on Sexton then I trust he knows he can get something out of him

[dakomish23]

Is he an RFA next year or this year

Next Summer he's RFA

Thx. I'm assuming waiting to make a big RFA offer is not an option