2021 Free Agency & Off-season

[LAL1947]

Myles Turner + TJ Warren for Kristaps Porzingis, who says no?

Pacers: Brogdon, Levert, J. Holiday, Porzingis, Sabonis.
Mavs: Doncic, Hardaway, Warren, Kleber, Turner.

The salaries match. Pacers turn two good players without star potential into one unicorn with star ability (if his potential is ever realized) and who should fit better next to Sabonis. If TJ Warren didn't have the foot surgery, the trade would probably be too favorable to the Mavs... but since he is an unknown at this moment, just wondering if y'all think this is a good trade. Thoughts?

I'm a fan of Luka's and want to see him get good teammates... but I also have a soft spot for the Pacers and don't wanna see y'all get ripped off in a deal for a good player like Turner... like with some of the proposed trades I'm seeing on Twitter and other places that involve GSW (Wiggins), Clippers, Lakers, etc.

[Moooose]

Myles Turner + TJ Warren for Kristaps Porzingis, who says no?

Pacers: Brogdon, Levert, J. Holiday, Porzingis, Sabonis.
Mavs: Doncic, Hardaway, Warren, Kleber, Turner.

The salaries match. Pacers turn two good players without star potential into one unicorn with star ability (if his potential is ever realized) and who should fit better next to Sabonis. If TJ Warren didn't have the foot surgery, the trade would probably be too favorable to the Mavs... but since he is an unknown at this moment, just wondering if y'all think this is a good trade. Thoughts?

I'm a fan of Luka's and want to see him get good teammates... but I also have a soft spot for the Pacers and don't wanna see y'all get ripped off in a deal for a good player like Turner... like with some of the proposed trades I'm seeing on Twitter and other places that involve GSW (Wiggins), Clippers, Lakers, etc.

It's been fantasized upon pretty mcuh, I guess. I can remember reading something like it on B/R or SI. Can't remember. But that was before the Carlisle hiring and my initial thought as a Pacers fan was NO. Not because I love Myles or I dislike KP, but at least I know what I am getting with Myles at the very least. KP is always a risk to me, in real life and in fantasy so as much as I like him, I don't think it'll be a good gamble.

But now that Carlisle is with the Pacers, his opinion on KP would matter a lot. If he thinks KP will fit this team better than the way he did in Dallas, then that's a different story.

[Wizop]

Here is a list of players that Chad Ford's Big Board mentions Indiana as a possible destination. The list is his order of value and not a prediction of draft position.

07 Davion Mitchell
08 Keon Johnson
09 Franz Wagner
10 Josh Giddey
11 James Bouknight
14 Corey Kispert
15 Moses Moody
17 Ziaire Williams

He doesn't mention us for some players he thinks will fall below us. He has Jalen Johnson at 12 and thinks going 8 is a possibility but thinks if not he could fall out of the lottery. He has Duarte at 19 and Kai Jones at 23.

I'd say the three highest ceiling, lowest floor guys are Williams and the two Johnsons. I think we've beat to death elsewhere the question whether with a lottery pick you should take the highest ceiling or avoid the lowest floor.

[Wizop]

MIf TJ Warren didn't have the foot surgery, the trade would probably be too favorable to the Mavs... but since he is an unknown at this moment, just wondering if y'all think this is a good trade. Thoughts?

it's still way too favorable for the Mavs. you haven't talked to the Warren's doctors but the Pacers have and we haven't heard anything negative. if Warren's value is depressed because of the uncertainty and the Pacers wanted to move him rather than pay him a much bigger contract in a year, I think we'd just wait until closer to the deadline to let him demonstrate his fitness.

and if we did want Porzingas as a 4, I think we'd be offering Sabonis, not Turner. trading inside offense for outside offense makes some sense. trading away inside defense for outside offense does not. in general though, I think our plan is to have 5 guys earning 18 to 20 and taking on a much higher salary doesn't work.

[Tom White]

Myles Turner + TJ Warren for Kristaps Porzingis, who says no?

I would say no.

(if his potential is ever realized) and who should fit better next to Sabonis.

There is the thing. He has been around six years. Are people mis-judging (over-rating) what his potential is? I'm also not so set on building around Sabonis for two reasons. A lack of defense and a lack of athleticism. I am worried that Porzingas may suffer from the same.

If TJ Warren didn't have the foot surgery, the trade would probably be too favorable to the Mavs

I think it is too favorable to the Mavs, period.

Here are my problems/questions with Porzingas.

Can he stay healthy? In his six years he has played 72, 66, 48, 0, 57, 43 games. We already have enough players who can't stay on the floor.

At 7'3" he has only converted 50% of his 2-pt attempts once. Let me say that again -
At 7'3" he has only converted 50% of his 2-pt attempts once.
And yet he is regarded as a shooter? Not in my mind.

Just to compare, Turner has shot over 50% from 2-pt range EVERY YEAR of his six years, including over 60% this year.

Plus, in the next three years he is being paid $31.6M, $33.8M and $36M to be injury prone and not a good 2-pt shooter for a 7'3" guy.

He also has only really been a better rebounder than Turner for a couple of his six years.

[Scoot McGroot]

Myles Turner + TJ Warren for Kristaps Porzingis, who says no?

Pacers: Brogdon, Levert, J. Holiday, Porzingis, Sabonis.
Mavs: Doncic, Hardaway, Warren, Kleber, Turner.

The salaries match. Pacers turn two good players without star potential into one unicorn with star ability (if his potential is ever realized) and who should fit better next to Sabonis. If TJ Warren didn't have the foot surgery, the trade would probably be too favorable to the Mavs... but since he is an unknown at this moment, just wondering if y'all think this is a good trade. Thoughts?

I'm a fan of Luka's and want to see him get good teammates... but I also have a soft spot for the Pacers and don't wanna see y'all get ripped off in a deal for a good player like Turner... like with some of the proposed trades I'm seeing on Twitter and other places that involve GSW (Wiggins), Clippers, Lakers, etc.

Pacers pretty quickly, and forcefully, say no. At their cost, is Porzingis more valuable to a team than Turner? I’m not sure he is. Porzingis blocks shots, historically, but he’s NOT a good defender. And he’s a terrible pairing with Sabonis, simply because he is such a terrible defender and almost completely un-switchable. He’s CLEARLY a MUCH better offensive threat/weapon than Turner, but that’s not what Indy needs next to Sabonis. Honestly, DFS would be much more intriguing to Indy than Porzingis. And reports are that Carlisle would likely have no interest in coaching Porzingis again.

Otherwise, we highly value Warren. He’s not just a starter, but a key piece. Sure, his trade value may be minimal due to his foot injury last year, but that just means that he won’t be dealt. We have no interest in dealing him to begin with.

Really, there’s nothing here to consider for Indy. Nothing to build a deal on.

[Scoot McGroot]

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[Topofthekey]

On one hand, Simmons' ability to play elite perimeter defense will be a welcome addition to the team

On the other hand, Simmons is such a bad fit with Domas on offense, if Brogdon is the one traded

We could trade Domas for Simmons, but that's an overpay to me, but more importantly 76ers has no need for Domas

Alternatively we could try to do both, trade Brogdon for Simmons and then also trade Domas for a better fitting piece, but that just feels like so many hoops to jump through just to get Simmons on the team - is it even worth it?

Not sure if Simmons is a good fit for Pacers, but it's at least exciting to hear them being involved in a trade for a star

[Wizop]

We could trade Domas for Simmons, but that's an overpay to me, but more importantly 76ers has no need for Domas

It has to be a three team deal with Domas going somewhere that can use him.

[8305]

I don't think Sabonis for Simmons is an overpay.

Sabonis and Lamb to Washington
Beal to Philly
Simmons to Indiana

[Scoot McGroot]

I don't think Sabonis for Simmons is an overpay.

Sabonis and Lamb to Washington
Beal to Philly
Simmons to Indiana

We’d have to pay a couple picks there to Washington. And likely a 4th team to send Sabonis. Can’t imagine they’d want to pair Westbrook with Sabonis, and I don’t think those two would want to play together again.

[Tom White]

We’d have to pay a couple picks there to Washington. And likely a 4th team to send Sabonis. Can’t imagine they’d want to pair Westbrook with Sabonis, and I don’t think those two would want to play together again.

There is all of that, plus, someone please remind me why Washington would want to let go of Beal?

Every time I see a proposal with Washington sending out Beal or Westbrook I ask the same question. and rarely get an answer. Why would Washington do this?

[Scoot McGroot]

We’d have to pay a couple picks there to Washington. And likely a 4th team to send Sabonis. Can’t imagine they’d want to pair Westbrook with Sabonis, and I don’t think those two would want to play together again.

There is all of that, plus, someone please remind me why Washington would want to let go of Beal?

Every time I see a proposal with Washington sending out Beal or Westbrook I ask the same question. and rarely get an answer. Why would Washington do this?

Good question. Hypothetically, they’d move Beal if they saw no reasonable way to move forward with him, and were to rebuild by gaining a bunch of “forward” assets for him. Just Sabonis and filler is certainly not that.

[Pacers Forever]

We’d have to pay a couple picks there to Washington. And likely a 4th team to send Sabonis. Can’t imagine they’d want to pair Westbrook with Sabonis, and I don’t think those two would want to play together again.

There is all of that, plus, someone please remind me why Washington would want to let go of Beal?

Every time I see a proposal with Washington sending out Beal or Westbrook I ask the same question. and rarely get an answer. Why would Washington do this?

Washington is kind of in our same position. Last year we lost Warren all season and wonder what if ? Washington lost their big IU guy Thomas Bryant who I thought was progressing with his 3 point shot and rebounding. Pretty sure he’s better than Lopez or Len from this past year.

So I can’t really see them wanting to make drastic moves to a pretty sure playoff squad. If anything I would think they’re wanting to build around Westbrook and Beal plus they have a new coach with a possible new direction.

[Topofthekey]

We’d have to pay a couple picks there to Washington. And likely a 4th team to send Sabonis. Can’t imagine they’d want to pair Westbrook with Sabonis, and I don’t think those two would want to play together again.

There is all of that, plus, someone please remind me why Washington would want to let go of Beal?

Every time I see a proposal with Washington sending out Beal or Westbrook I ask the same question. and rarely get an answer. Why would Washington do this?

Washington is kind of in our same position. Last year we lost Warren all season and wonder what if ? Washington lost their big IU guy Thomas Bryant who I thought was progressing with his 3 point shot and rebounding. Pretty sure he’s better than Lopez or Len from this past year.

So I can’t really see them wanting to make drastic moves to a pretty sure playoff squad. If anything I would think they’re wanting to build around Westbrook and Beal plus they have a new coach with a possible new direction.

Yes, I think having a new coach means that they would want to at least see how the team performs under the new coach before contemplating any drastic trades

Avdija was under utilized under Brooks as well, so a new coach might finally start to unlock a bit of his potential

I won't be surprised if Wizards makes the playoffs again

[HurricaneDij25]

What do you guys think of Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk as a budget Doug option? Guy shot 40 percent from three a couple years ago in Detroit. He didn’t shoot nearly as good last season, but I’d say he’s worth a look if Sam Presti thought high enough of him to trade for him mid season…

Another guy I like is Trevor Ariza, who still carries sneaky value at 36 as a guy who can make threes and defend at either forward position and possibly some emergency center. At his age, he may look to sign with a higher profile organization (like the Lakers, with whom he won a title in 2009), but it would be significant if we could somehow raid arch rival Miami.

[8305]

We’d have to pay a couple picks there to Washington. And likely a 4th team to send Sabonis. Can’t imagine they’d want to pair Westbrook with Sabonis, and I don’t think those two would want to play together again.

There is all of that, plus, someone please remind me why Washington would want to let go of Beal?

Every time I see a proposal with Washington sending out Beal or Westbrook I ask the same question. and rarely get an answer. Why would Washington do this?

Good question. Hypothetically, they’d move Beal if they saw no reasonable way to move forward with him, and were to rebuild by gaining a bunch of “forward” assets for him. Just Sabonis and filler is certainly not that.

Arguably this is the last opportunity to obtain any value for Beal. Take it a step further and his value is already compromised in that he is only under contract for one more year. What superstar stays in a situation like Washington for anything other than a supermax contract? And, is Beal really a supermax player?

[Scoot McGroot]

There is all of that, plus, someone please remind me why Washington would want to let go of Beal?

Every time I see a proposal with Washington sending out Beal or Westbrook I ask the same question. and rarely get an answer. Why would Washington do this?

Good question. Hypothetically, they’d move Beal if they saw no reasonable way to move forward with him, and were to rebuild by gaining a bunch of “forward” assets for him. Just Sabonis and filler is certainly not that.

Arguably this is the last opportunity to obtain any value for Beal. Take it a step further and his value is already compromised in that he is only under contract for one more year. What superstar stays in a situation like Washington for anything other than a supermax contract? And, is Beal really a supermax player?

Beal is a super max player, especially to Washington. He still has a LOT more value on the market, even if “compromised”, than just Sabonis and Lamb. That’s nowhere close. And if it was, we would do that in a second, no take backsies.

[8305]

Good question. Hypothetically, they’d move Beal if they saw no reasonable way to move forward with him, and were to rebuild by gaining a bunch of “forward” assets for him. Just Sabonis and filler is certainly not that.

Arguably this is the last opportunity to obtain any value for Beal. Take it a step further and his value is already compromised in that he is only under contract for one more year. What superstar stays in a situation like Washington for anything other than a supermax contract? And, is Beal really a supermax player?

Beal is a super max player, especially to Washington. He still has a LOT more value on the market, even if “compromised”, than just Sabonis and Lamb. That’s nowhere close. And if it was, we would do that in a second, no take backsies.

Really, you would trade Sabonis and his three years of cost control for a guy who will be unrestricted at the end of this year? Based on what I've observed from big time players actions over the last several years I would not risk an asset of pretty substantial value for a guy with one year on his deal. Make a Sabonis for Beal trade, I say the odds of that making us a championship contender maybe 1 in 20, the odds of resigning maybe 1 in 5. And, if we did resign him the deal would be crippling.

[Wizop]

If I were trading for Beal (or any other starting guard) I'd want to move LeVert and not Sabonis. that might take a 3 team deal or 2 separate ones but if you are bringing in a new starter, you have to clear a spot on the starting 5.