Trade Talk (Part Seven)

[Nick K]

For those of you wanting Bledsoe, he was garbage last year. He's supposed to be a good defensive player but didn't play defense last year either.
Pelican fans were desperate to get him off the team.

Yep. Just say NO to Bledsoe.

[Norseman79]

I know he has been elevated around here for two years, but I’m still undecided on Nance. Maybe someone can get me on board?

1. How does he rank in Rosas three core areas? (Defend PnR, Protect the rim, Rebound)

2. I worry he’s only 6-8. This seems like more of a “last year” kind of SF/PF Rosas used to want as a PF.

3. He’s also only a 33% career 3P%.

Contract looks good, injuries not so much.

I’m open to be convinced, because I admit - I don’t know. Who’s got a good breakdown for me, either pro or con?

I agree with all of this. 6'10 plus or don't bother. Finch wants legit size in the front court...more than just weight. If Nance costs you Culver, Juancho or Layman do it. I wouldn't give up anything better and I wouldn't consider Nance our starting PF.

[Nick K]

If Nance is on the market I'd put him at the top of the realistic trade options. His defense, rebounding, and 3pt shooting would be a great fit. If the Wolves could get him for some combination of expiring contracts (a couple of Juancho, Culver, and Layman) plus a protected pick I'd be ecstatic.

Protected pick...pass.

Agreed. I'm tired of us being in the lottery and having no picks because we trade them away.

I really think our days of being in the lottery are coming to an end. This is a critical off season. Just as long as we don't bleep it up.

[Klomp]

I know he has been elevated around here for two years, but I’m still undecided on Nance. Maybe someone can get me on board?

1. How does he rank in Rosas three core areas? (Defend PnR, Protect the rim, Rebound)

2. I worry he’s only 6-8. This seems like more of a “last year” kind of SF/PF Rosas used to want as a PF.

3. He’s also only a 33% career 3P%.

Contract looks good, injuries not so much.

I’m open to be convinced, because I admit - I don’t know. Who’s got a good breakdown for me, either pro or con?

On a Cavs’ team desperately lacking offensive rhythm and flow, Nance repeatedly gave his team a shot on defense ...creating extra possessions with his fluid approach. His pick-pocketing was so supreme in fact, it could have landed him 3rd in the league had he met the statistical minimum of playing 70% of his team’s games. That stat — among others — helped Nance birth a defensive rating of 107 this season. Per Cleaning the Glass, teams scored -9.3 points per 100 possessions with Nance on the court. That’s good enough to list Cleveland’s big at the 97th percentile rank among all players in the league. The same research tool tags Nance with a 2.5 Steal Percentage, listing him in the 99th percentile or 10th in the league behind Victor Oladipo. What percentage of opponents’ possessions ended in turnovers with Nance on the court? That can be best explained within the TOV% stat — also a solid measure for Nance — who sits 10th in the league at 3.3%.

https://www.fearthesword.com/2021/7/7/22564973/larry-nance-jr-2020-21-season-review

While he may not be your typical "rim protector" in terms of blocking shots, he's always been a very good defender as the numbers above show. Think of him in the mold of a Taj Gibson, as I've always found their games very similar.

Nance has a leg up on Gibson in shooting though. While both attempted to add it to their games later in their careers, Nance has had more success. While his career percentage is only 33%, it's at 35.5% over the past two seasons on 3 attempts per game (was 29.5% in first four seasons, but on only 0.6 attempts per game).

He may be undersized somewhat at only 6-foot-8, but has always been more undersized PF than a true combo guy.

Injuries last year weren't good, but I think that at least one had to do with his underlying conditions. For those who don't know, Nance has Crohn's disease. He also had an absence with what seems to be an unrelated illness, though I feel like the body's reaction can be linked to it:

Spoiler:

The 28-year-old has spent more than a week away from the team while dealing with an undetermined illness that left him bedridden, according to Cleveland.com. Nance initially felt unwell on March 29, just hours before the team was scheduled to face the Utah Jazz, the outlet said. He did not participate in team activities or the game that day.

Nance has since received multiple tests to determine the cause of the illness, but results have come back negative. This includes tests for COVID-19, which did not return positive, the outlet reported.

A source told Cleveland.com that Nance lost nearly 20 pounds over a one-week period while coping with the ailment.

https://people.com/sports/nba-player-larry-nance-jr-recovering-after-battling-mystery-illness/

These are the types of things I LOVE to read about guys:

Nance knows he has to use his voice while out on the court, especially on defense. The communication on the defensive end was a factor he noticed while he was sidelined with his injuries that needed improvement. Nance said their defense can’t be successful if they aren’t all on the same page, and that’s where he wants to use his voice.

On any given night, Nance doesn’t focus on the number of points he scores or rebounds. He knows his role to stop his man from scoring, play defense, grab rebounds and make the extra pass. Nance sees his veteran leadership as a necessary aspect to bring to the floor, especially to help the Cavs’ young core. He entered training camp with a mindset to be more vocal and step into that veteran role, and that mentality hasn’t changed.

“But, the biggest thing for me being out there right now is my voice,” Nance said. “I started the game with two 22-year-olds, a 21-year-old and a 20-year-old. I mean, they’ve got to hear my voice. I’ve got to be the loudest one in the court barking, ‘Hey, strong, strong, weak, weak, weak,’ whatever it was, and whatever call it is, whatever we’re doing. Whatever I can yell, just to help slow the game down for them.”

https://theathletic.com/2460260/2021/03/19/cavs-larry-nance-jr-finding-rhythm-in-return-from-injury/

[Nick K]

I know he has been elevated around here for two years, but I’m still undecided on Nance. Maybe someone can get me on board?

1. How does he rank in Rosas three core areas? (Defend PnR, Protect the rim, Rebound)

2. I worry he’s only 6-8. This seems like more of a “last year” kind of SF/PF Rosas used to want as a PF.

3. He’s also only a 33% career 3P%.

Contract looks good, injuries not so much.

I’m open to be convinced, because I admit - I don’t know. Who’s got a good breakdown for me, either pro or con?

From what I've seen, Nance is a plus defender who can switch onto multiple positions. He provides decent rim defense and is an above average rebounder for a PF. He doesn't have great height, but at 245lbs with a 7'1" wingspan he has no problem defending traditional PFs and has spent some time at C. His 3pt career shooting percentage doesn't stand out, but he has shot 35% and 36% the last two seasons. Basically, he is a role player who fits the Wolves needs really well.

The main concern would be with his health and staying on the floor, but that may be the reason he could be obtained at a pretty reasonable trade cost.

I see it exactly this way too. He should be a better rebounder and staying on the floor is a big concern. He's a really good solid piece but not great by any standards. We need a guy who blocks out, doesn't get pushed around, and gets boards on both ends. He does a lot of that well.

[karch34]

Protected pick...pass.

Agreed. I'm tired of us being in the lottery and having no picks because we trade them away.

I really think our days of being in the lottery are coming to an end. This is a critical off season. Just as long as we don't bleep it up.

I don't have an issue with protected picks if the protections are favorable. Didn't some of Boston's treasure trove of picks convert to 2nds or wind up late round?

[fattymcgee]

I know he has been elevated around here for two years, but I’m still undecided on Nance. Maybe someone can get me on board?

1. How does he rank in Rosas three core areas? (Defend PnR, Protect the rim, Rebound)

2. I worry he’s only 6-8. This seems like more of a “last year” kind of SF/PF Rosas used to want as a PF.

3. He’s also only a 33% career 3P%.

Contract looks good, injuries not so much.

I’m open to be convinced, because I admit - I don’t know. Who’s got a good breakdown for me, either pro or con?

I agree with all of this. 6'10 plus or don't bother. Finch wants legit size in the front court...more than just weight. If Nance costs you Culver, Juancho or Layman do it. I wouldn't give up anything better and I wouldn't consider Nance our starting PF.

It's rare to find a 6'10" PF anymore now that the NBA measures players barefoot instead of in shoes. Historically the prototypical PFs have been 6'8" - 6'9" barefoot.

[MN7725]

If Nance is on the market I'd put him at the top of the realistic trade options. His defense, rebounding, and 3pt shooting would be a great fit. If the Wolves could get him for some combination of expiring contracts (a couple of Juancho, Culver, and Layman) plus a protected pick I'd be ecstatic.

Nance is one of those names that most fans would probably be underwhelmed by, but might be the type of players who would have the greatest impact on the team as a whole.

good complementary player like Covington, not as perimeter oriented
can't make a bad lineup become good, but does help out talented players that can create

he's had about as bad luck as a player could have in his career, drafted late to the end of Kobe Lakers, than traded to the end of Lebron Cavs

I don't see him as that much different than Aaron Gordon other than he's accepted being a role player and doesn't try to do more than he's capable of, whereas Gordon you had to worry he still sees himself as a 4th overall pick star-in-waiting

I don't know what Wolves have to offer, they maybe want to get off Cedi Osman's contract but its not like they have any cap issues

or if they love Naz as an incentive, and Wolves can find decent enough backup C for minimum contract, probably the easiest position to fill in the league

[Klomp]

One thing about making a package for Nance and Osman is that they BOTH have declining contracts. Osman's third year remaining is unguaranteed as well.

[jpatrick]

I think Nance is a decent player and good fit. Not sure what Rosas would give up though. He comes from the Morey school of thought that you only give up assets for players that move the needle. I don’t think Nance moves the needle.

Simmons, Isaac, Collins, Turner, Siakam, maybe even Gallo are needle movers. Nance no.

[shangrila]

I think Nance is a decent player and good fit. Not sure what Rosas would give up though. He comes from the Morey school of thought that you only give up assets for players that move the needle. I don’t think Nance moves the needle.

Simmons, Isaac, Collins, Turner, Siakam, maybe even Gallo are needle movers. Nance no.

I think that sort of thing depends on the team.

Sure, he’s not winning games on his own but the upgrade from Juancho to him is significant enough to have an impact.


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[moonpie]

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[TheProdigy]

I know he has been elevated around here for two years, but I’m still undecided on Nance. Maybe someone can get me on board?

1. How does he rank in Rosas three core areas? (Defend PnR, Protect the rim, Rebound)

2. I worry he’s only 6-8. This seems like more of a “last year” kind of SF/PF Rosas used to want as a PF.

3. He’s also only a 33% career 3P%.

Contract looks good, injuries not so much.

I’m open to be convinced, because I admit - I don’t know. Who’s got a good breakdown for me, either pro or con?

I agree with all of this. 6'10 plus or don't bother. Finch wants legit size in the front court...more than just weight. If Nance costs you Culver, Juancho or Layman do it. I wouldn't give up anything better and I wouldn't consider Nance our starting PF.

I wouldn't get too caught up with his height. He was measured with a 9'0 standing reach during his draft combine which is above average for power forwards. His max vertical reach was tested at 12 foot, 1.5 inches, which is probably 99th percentile for combine testing.

With all the scorers we have on the team, a low usage glue guy like Nance makes a lot of sense. My main concern is the injury history. As long as that's taken into consideration by Rosas in the trade valuation, then I like the idea of trading for Nance.

[Krapinsky]

Has any non-wolves player been discussed more on this board than Larry Nance, Jr? We must have compiled a hundred plus pages over the year debating the merits of this league average forward.

If there was ever a team where he should have made an impact it was Cleveland last year with its void in the front court. Yet, he somehow only managed 1.8 winshares the entire season. Are we sure he is any good?

[TheProdigy]

Has any non-wolves player been discussed more on this board than Larry Nance, Jr? We must have compiled a hundred plus pages over the year debating the merits of this league average forward.

If there was ever a team where he should have made an impact it was Cleveland last year with its void in the front court. Yet, he somehow only managed 1.8 winshares the entire season. Are we sure he is any good?

Aaron Gordon was another guy that got discussed way too much on this board before he got traded to the Nuggets.

I view Larry Nance in a similar way to Jae Crowder. They obviously have different skillsets, but they're similar in that they're both low usage role players who tend to look really good on good teams but also tend to look average to below average on bad teams. Cleveland was a dumpster fire last year, and I think Nance would look alot better surrounded by KAT, DLo, Ant, Beasley, etc.

[Neeva]

Has any non-wolves player been discussed more on this board than Larry Nance, Jr? We must have compiled a hundred plus pages over the year debating the merits of this league average forward.

If there was ever a team where he should have made an impact it was Cleveland last year with its void in the front court. Yet, he somehow only managed 1.8 winshares the entire season. Are we sure he is any good?

Yep I do not get the fascination with this guy at all. Give up a first for him lol no **** way. Whenever I have seen him play he never stood out at all.

[wolves_89]

I'd compare Nance to a 25lb heavier version of Vanderbilt in terms of defense/rebounding. On offense he isn't going to carry a team, but he isn't going to be a major negative like Okogie/Vando. Teams will at least have to guard him on the perimeter.

[MN7725]

I'd compare Nance to a 25lb heavier version of Vanderbilt in terms of defense/rebounding. On offense he isn't going to carry a team, but he isn't going to be a major negative like Okogie/Vando. Teams will at least have to guard him on the perimeter.

that's about the best outcome Wolves can hope for this offseason for upgrading PF

above average D/Reb and teams give a crap when the player has the ball

that is a league average player as Nance is, but that is still massive upgrade from pretty much league worse position as Wolves were last season

[Norseman79]

I know he has been elevated around here for two years, but I’m still undecided on Nance. Maybe someone can get me on board?

1. How does he rank in Rosas three core areas? (Defend PnR, Protect the rim, Rebound)

2. I worry he’s only 6-8. This seems like more of a “last year” kind of SF/PF Rosas used to want as a PF.

3. He’s also only a 33% career 3P%.

Contract looks good, injuries not so much.

I’m open to be convinced, because I admit - I don’t know. Who’s got a good breakdown for me, either pro or con?

I agree with all of this. 6'10 plus or don't bother. Finch wants legit size in the front court...more than just weight. If Nance costs you Culver, Juancho or Layman do it. I wouldn't give up anything better and I wouldn't consider Nance our starting PF.

It's rare to find a 6'10" PF anymore now that the NBA measures players barefoot instead of in shoes. Historically the prototypical PFs have been 6'8" - 6'9" barefoot.

Huh, I feel like I could name a bunch.... Simmons, Isaac, Jackson Jr., Porzingis, Davis, Giannis, Durant, Sabonis for starters...you do have guys who are shorter that play the four... does not mean I want them.

I would take Kuzma over Nance...but that depends what Nance's pricetag is. As said, if it's Culver and Layman....sold. we have a new backup PF who can start until we find a good starter

[Dewey]

I'd compare Nance to a 25lb heavier version of Vanderbilt in terms of defense/rebounding. On offense he isn't going to carry a team, but he isn't going to be a major negative like Okogie/Vando. Teams will at least have to guard him on the perimeter.

Could be a safe play …