Trade Talk (Part Seven)

[karch34]

For better or worse everything I hear is that we are one of the biggest pursuers of Simmons.

I have one worrisome theory why Morey can ask other teams for extremely ridiculous offers for Simmons.

Maybe Rosas already made a ridiculous offer, and he has that one in his back pocket? Maybe he’s waiting to see if he could get Dame for Simmons plus, but if that doesn’t emerge, Rosas already made him an offer so high, (say, McDaniels, three unprotected 1sts), that Morey can casually dismiss other teams if they won’t beat that offer.

Per Krawcinzki, Morey wants Lillard and for him to ask out of Portland. so right no he’s asking for the moon from the other 28 trams as he’s playing the waiting game.

So if we made the ridiculous offer he seems to be of the opinion he’d be on our team by now.

[old school 34]

Watched him last night, since I saw the tweet & I know there was some smoke last year around the draft about us having some interest.

He wouldn't be a bad addition, if we could get him relatively cheap (expiring & a 2nd or two?)....if we don't have a needle mover trade in us....throw a few young pf types on the roster & see who develops?

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Wasn't Smith projected as a 2nd round pick at the time and considered a giant reach for the 10th pick? I don't think he can defend.

Maybe not second round pick but was considered a huge reach. I’d move Culver for someone like this. Give both guys a fresh start.

Yeah, he was mocked in that just outside the lottery to mid 20's...

Wasn't certain if he could defend well enough in space to stretch as a 4 or could he bulk up enough to function as a 5. By no means...do I guarantee success, but he's got some skills to work with...& it's a way of kind of resets the rookie clock if say it was some version of a Smith for Culver swap at a position without a clear starter?

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[SO_MONEY]

Wasn't Smith projected as a 2nd round pick at the time and considered a giant reach for the 10th pick? I don't think he can defend.

Maybe not second round pick but was considered a huge reach. I’d move Culver for someone like this. Give both guys a fresh start.

Yeah, he was mocked in that just outside the lottery to mid 20's...

Wasn't certain if he could defend well enough in space to stretch as a 4 or could he bulk up enough to function as a 5. By no means...do I guarantee success, but he's got some skills to work with...& it's a way of kind of resets the rookie clock if say it was some version of a Smith for Culver swap at a position without a clear starter?

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PHX isn't trading him for Culver, they need a PF to pan out too, the fact they are exploring trades isn't a good sign as far as what they think of him, but I am sure they would rather cross their fingers on a position they need than swap him for a position they don't.

[IceManBK1]

https://dunkingwithwolves.com/2021/08/14/minnesota-timberwolves-3-options-for-offseason-roster-moves/3/

Wonder if Pacers still interested in simmons and willing to trade turner? We give up Beasley, okogie, Culver and 2nd to get Turner. 76ers get Brogdon and Beasley and 1st from ind. Ind gets Simmons, okogie, Culver and our 2nd.

[shrink]

For better or worse everything I hear is that we are one of the biggest pursuers of Simmons.

I have one worrisome theory why Morey can ask other teams for extremely ridiculous offers for Simmons.

Maybe Rosas already made a ridiculous offer, and he has that one in his back pocket? Maybe he’s waiting to see if he could get Dame for Simmons plus, but if that doesn’t emerge, Rosas already made him an offer so high, (say, McDaniels, three unprotected 1sts), that Morey can casually dismiss other teams if they won’t beat that offer.

Per Krawcinzki, Morey wants Lillard and for him to ask out of Portland. so right no he’s asking for the moon from the other 28 trams as he’s playing the waiting game.

So if we made the ridiculous offer he seems to be of the opinion he’d be on our team by now.

I agree. That’s what other sources have said too. Morey is a star hunter, and if he thinks he has a chance at Lillard or Beal later this summer, he will wait with Simmons. It just seems like an even bigger gamble to turn away lesser offers if he doesn’t have a good one stored.

[shrink]

https://dunkingwithwolves.com/2021/08/14/minnesota-timberwolves-3-options-for-offseason-roster-moves/3/

Wonder if Pacers still interested in simmons and willing to trade turner? We give up Beasley, okogie, Culver and 2nd to get Turner. 76ers get Brogdon and Beasley and 1st from ind. Ind gets Simmons, okogie, Culver and our 2nd.

It’s hard for me to believe dunkingwithwolves here.

If their offer was Brogdan and a 1st for Simmons, it’s hard to imagine they’d also toss in Myles Turner.

[shrink]

I wanted to mention, one way to get better trade returns is to zig when everyone else zags.

It might be hard for impatient wolves fans to accept, but we may want to consider trading our more win-now assets like Beasley or even DLo because prices might be good. Right now, there are only about 4-5 teams that aren’t under pressure to win, so that means there are lots of buyers and few sellers. Six teams wanted one of the Big Three PGs in free agency (Lowry, Conley, Paul), and while one took Dinwiddie, two got shut out. I could still see a good offer from NYK for Russell, and PHI really needs someone like him too. I don’t think teams will want to wait, and hope that OKC buys out Kemba (does OKC ever buy out players?). And virtually every win-now team could use Malik Beasley.

Right now, we are a zagger too. I think Rosas is feeling pressure internal and from us fans to make the playoffs. But if we wanted to maximize our assets, we should listen to offers on Beasley, DLo, Okogie .. maybe even Towns.

[shangrila]

Kemba got bought out by OKC and signed with New York weeks ago.

[shrink]

Kemba got bought out by OKC and signed with New York weeks ago.

Thanks. Missed that. Traveling - hard to keep up, so I appreciate that.

[KGdaBom]

KG needed that guy, we had Cassell who was the closest thing to that. You're telling me if KG had Kobe that they wouldn't have won multiple chips?

Duncan always had that guy too. Parker, Ginnobli, etc. The spurs model is also very different than every team in the league.

We have a big that's good second fiddle, he just needs an elite guard that doesn't take them out of games, but finishes it for them..

Lou Will and Jamal Crawford if they could get stops would be an example of that player.

DRose prior to his injuries was that guy and still has a lot left in the tank, but he was just getting healthy when we had him.

DLo can't get stops either, it doesn't matter if you can get a bucket if you also give up a bucket at the other end of the floor.

I don't think you're getting my point. Simmons is a solid player, he's a great one. I'd be happy to have him on the Wolves, just not at his contrast. Because given the fact that our roster lacks the guy I'm talking about I don't think it's worth trying to fit another max player who has a deficiency.

You need two way players that can close out games for this roster construction because we don't have any right now. Superstars like Durant, Doncic, McGrath, Wade, Kobe, etc.

That's what we need to get first. Maybe we have that in Ant. But adding Simmons to the top of that roster before we figure it out is capping ourselves.

Honestly adding Simmons might not be a problem, it just depends on what you trade him for. Given two things: a. Hes not the focal point of your offense b.) He sticks to his role.

Simmons is like the guard version of Draymond Green. And having Green is great for any team. But we would potentially have just Green and weak man's Thompson at best.

No Curry, No Durant.

I hate HERO ball.

In the last 5 years name one team that won a championship without players who could play hero ball?

Bucks - Giannis
Lakers - Bron
Toronto - Kawhi
Warriors - Durant
Warriors - Durant

None of those 5 play hero ball.

[floppymoose]

Minny feels like a team that could take a chance on Simmons. It's a high risk thing to do, but sometimes a franchise needs to take a risk. GS did that with Bogut and it paid off (would he ever be healthy?). Maybe Minny could be where Smmons rejuvenates his career.

[old school 34]

Maybe not second round pick but was considered a huge reach. I’d move Culver for someone like this. Give both guys a fresh start.

Yeah, he was mocked in that just outside the lottery to mid 20's...

Wasn't certain if he could defend well enough in space to stretch as a 4 or could he bulk up enough to function as a 5. By no means...do I guarantee success, but he's got some skills to work with...& it's a way of kind of resets the rookie clock if say it was some version of a Smith for Culver swap at a position without a clear starter?

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PHX isn't trading him for Culver, they need a PF to pan out too, the fact they are exploring trades isn't a good sign as far as what they think of him, but I am sure they would rather cross their fingers on a position they need than swap him for a position they don't.

Yeah, I was originally throwing idea if cost was expiring & a couple 2nds?

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[SO_MONEY]

For better or worse everything I hear is that we are one of the biggest pursuers of Simmons.

I have one worrisome theory why Morey can ask other teams for extremely ridiculous offers for Simmons.

Maybe Rosas already made a ridiculous offer, and he has that one in his back pocket? Maybe he’s waiting to see if he could get Dame for Simmons plus, but if that doesn’t emerge, Rosas already made him an offer so high, (say, McDaniels, three unprotected 1sts), that Morey can casually dismiss other teams if they won’t beat that offer.

You worry too much.

No team is giving a ridiculous offer for Simmons, no team. And we are not offering McDaniels as I think it would be more likely at this point we build around both him and ANT.

[KGdaBom]

For better or worse everything I hear is that we are one of the biggest pursuers of Simmons.

I have one worrisome theory why Morey can ask other teams for extremely ridiculous offers for Simmons.

Maybe Rosas already made a ridiculous offer, and he has that one in his back pocket? Maybe he’s waiting to see if he could get Dame for Simmons plus, but if that doesn’t emerge, Rosas already made him an offer so high, (say, McDaniels, three unprotected 1sts), that Morey can casually dismiss other teams if they won’t beat that offer.

You worry too much.

No team is giving a ridiculous offer for Simmons, no team. And we are not offering McDaniels as I think it would be more likely at this point we build around both him and ANT.

McDaniels is an intriguing player that hasn't proven a thing yet. IF he turns out to be as good as some of us think he can we could finally become a good team. Still need another big to play along side of KAT.

[SO_MONEY]

I have one worrisome theory why Morey can ask other teams for extremely ridiculous offers for Simmons.

Maybe Rosas already made a ridiculous offer, and he has that one in his back pocket? Maybe he’s waiting to see if he could get Dame for Simmons plus, but if that doesn’t emerge, Rosas already made him an offer so high, (say, McDaniels, three unprotected 1sts), that Morey can casually dismiss other teams if they won’t beat that offer.

You worry too much.

No team is giving a ridiculous offer for Simmons, no team. And we are not offering McDaniels as I think it would be more likely at this point we build around both him and ANT.

McDaniels is an intriguing player that hasn't proven a thing yet. IF he turns out to be as good as some of us think he can we could finally become a good team. Still need another big to play along side of KAT.

McDaniels has proven everything he needs to at his price point and anything else is pure profit. The moral of the story is he is a modern 3 with positional flexibility that plays winning basketball and is beyond valuable. No team is giving that up to pay Simmons.

A team might give up an upside young player(s), maybe, but not one who's floor is as in demand and cost is so low.

People are so jaded by past performance that they are criminally undervaluing McDaniels.

[KGdaBom]

You worry too much.

No team is giving a ridiculous offer for Simmons, no team. And we are not offering McDaniels as I think it would be more likely at this point we build around both him and ANT.

McDaniels is an intriguing player that hasn't proven a thing yet. IF he turns out to be as good as some of us think he can we could finally become a good team. Still need another big to play along side of KAT.

McDaniels has proven everything he needs to at his price point and anything else is pure profit. The moral of the story is he is a modern 3 with positional flexibility that plays winning basketball and is beyond valuable. No team is giving that up to pay Simmons.

A team might give up an upside young player(s), maybe, but not one who's floor is as in demand and cost is so low.

People are so jaded by past performance that they are criminally undervaluing McDaniels.

I like him, but he hasn't proven anything. One season of about 7 points a game in 24 minutes and a good block rate is encouraging, but far from proving.

[SO_MONEY]

McDaniels is an intriguing player that hasn't proven a thing yet. IF he turns out to be as good as some of us think he can we could finally become a good team. Still need another big to play along side of KAT.

McDaniels has proven everything he needs to at his price point and anything else is pure profit. The moral of the story is he is a modern 3 with positional flexibility that plays winning basketball and is beyond valuable. No team is giving that up to pay Simmons.

A team might give up an upside young player(s), maybe, but not one who's floor is as in demand and cost is so low.

People are so jaded by past performance that they are criminally undervaluing McDaniels.

I like him, but he hasn't proven anything. One season of about 7 points a game in 24 minutes and a good block rate is encouraging, but far from proving.

You are vastly understating his defense. As a rookie he was one of the best defenders in the NBA and his on/off splits on a bad team demonstrate just how special and impactful he is. We got a keeper and you don't give that up to pay Simmons 35+ million. No team would, because keeping him and allocating the difference in money in other ways makes you better than losing that advantage in team building.

[KGdaBom]

McDaniels has proven everything he needs to at his price point and anything else is pure profit. The moral of the story is he is a modern 3 with positional flexibility that plays winning basketball and is beyond valuable. No team is giving that up to pay Simmons.

A team might give up an upside young player(s), maybe, but not one who's floor is as in demand and cost is so low.

People are so jaded by past performance that they are criminally undervaluing McDaniels.

I like him, but he hasn't proven anything. One season of about 7 points a game in 24 minutes and a good block rate is encouraging, but far from proving.

You are vastly understating his defense. As a rookie he was one of the best defenders in the NBA and his on/off splits on a bad team demonstrate just how special and impactful he is. We got a keeper.

What makes you think I understate his defense. I think you overstate it calling him one of the best defenders in the NBA. Which All NBA defensive team did he make. I think they go to 3rd. I think we got a keeper also. I just don't believe he is any sure fire star. I hope he becomes one, but that's a very big step up from what we've seen so far.

[SO_MONEY]

I like him, but he hasn't proven anything. One season of about 7 points a game in 24 minutes and a good block rate is encouraging, but far from proving.

You are vastly understating his defense. As a rookie he was one of the best defenders in the NBA and his on/off splits on a bad team demonstrate just how special and impactful he is. We got a keeper.

What makes you think I understate his defense. I think you overstate it calling him one of the best defenders in the NBA. Which All NBA defensive team did he make. I think they go to 3rd. I think we got a keeper also. I just don't believe he is any sure fire star. I hope he becomes one, but that's a very big step up from what we've seen so far.

Statistically, including advanced measurements backup that he was one of the best defenders in the NBA. He was. Don't know what to tell you.

I am not saying he is going to be a star, but I don't think Simmons is either. And Simmons is not going to be nearly as productive on MN. Kat, DLo and ANT will lower his already questionable offensive impact. He wouldn't have the ball in his hands as often and would need to swallow his pride some. I think it is reasonable to think he could drop to a 12/6/5 guy who is a mental midget that you are paying 35+ million. If you don't think McDaniels can get close to that for a fraction of the cost...well...

[KGdaBom]

You are vastly understating his defense. As a rookie he was one of the best defenders in the NBA and his on/off splits on a bad team demonstrate just how special and impactful he is. We got a keeper.

What makes you think I understate his defense. I think you overstate it calling him one of the best defenders in the NBA. Which All NBA defensive team did he make. I think they go to 3rd. I think we got a keeper also. I just don't believe he is any sure fire star. I hope he becomes one, but that's a very big step up from what we've seen so far.

Statistically, including advanced measurements backup that he was one of the best defenders in the NBA. He was. Don't know what to tell you.

I am not saying he is going to be a star, but I don't think Simmons is either. And Simmons is not going to be nearly as productive on MN. Kat, DLo and ANT will lower his already questionable offensive impact. He wouldn't have the ball in his hands as often and would need to swallow his pride some. I think it is reasonable to think he could drop to a 12/6/5 guy who is a mental midget that you are paying 35+ million. If you don't think McDaniels can get close to that for a fraction of the cost...well...

I was talking about McDaniels. I wasn't comparing the two. I wasn't talking about trading McDaniels in a Simmons package. Just talking about McDaniels.
I disagree with your contention that Simmons isn't a star and I don't appreciate your contempt for him. I'd love to have him on the Wolves strictly from a playing standpoint. If we were able to get him on our team he would not drop to a 12-6-5 guy. He would be the primary ball handler setting up Kat, DLo, And and McDaniels. His contract might make acquiring him prohibitive.