Summer League Thread Part 5: Raps win Finale 86-72. Banton 9,9,4/Morgan 24pts

[Los_29]

I was amazed that Jalen Johnson went so low in the draft and his summer league was pretty impressive: 19 and 9 and 42% from three. Maybe be somewhat influenced by Sharife Cooper spoonfeeding him looks. Look at how high JT Thor went.

I posted a question as to why everyone thought Scottie Barnes was a significantly better prospect than Jalen Johnson and people basically laughed at me. In the months leading up to the draft several mocks had him higher rated than Barnes and their numbers are very similar. Jalen Johnson had the advantage in blocks, rebounds, and scoring efficiency, while Barnes was better at assists.

Well Barnes went 4th overall and Johnson went 21st so there are clearly some big differences. I'd say the biggest difference is defense. Johnson looked lost on the defensive end at times, showed poor lateral quickness and didn't really put in the effort on that end. Not to mention Scottie seems to love playing the game of basketball and demonstrates excellent character and a desire to get better. Whereas Johnson's character has been questioned dating back to his high school days. Lots of red flags.

[ciueli]

I don't know where you're going with this when it comes to Jalen Johnson. unless you're a transcendant talent, you don't get away with a **** attitude. I don't think Johnson is a transcendant talent by any means.

This is my whole issue, he doesn't have a $#!t attitude, he just wanted to avoid potentially suffering a serious injury playing meaningless minutes for a college team that was going nowhere right before signing a multi million dollar contract for life changing money.

As far as I can tell, this is behaviour that's consistent with what goes on in the NBA, teams holding out star players to tank and intentionally lose games, players with certain incentives in their contracts who artificially try to meet them by altering the way they play from what they would normally do, teams subverting the rules of free agency by illegally talking with players before the official start of free agency. He should fit right in.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

I don't know where you're going with this when it comes to Jalen Johnson. unless you're a transcendant talent, you don't get away with a **** attitude. I don't think Johnson is a transcendant talent by any means.

This is my whole issue, he doesn't have a $#!t attitude, he just wanted to avoid potentially suffering a serious injury playing meaningless minutes for a college team that was going nowhere right before signing a multi million dollar contract for life changing money.

As far as I can tell, this is behaviour that's consistent with what goes on in the NBA, teams holding out star players to tank and intentionally lose games, players with certain incentives in their contracts who artificially try to meet them by altering the way they play from what they would normally do, teams subverting the rules of free agency by illegally talking with players before the official start of free agency. He should fit right in.

he may or may not have an attitude problem - thats for him to figure out. he definitely has some game and was in the talks of being drafted in the lottery. maybe his pre-draft interviews confirmed their suspicion that he a selfish guy and thats why he fell. I mean dude is a lottery level talent, obv.

you can call GMs stupid but its obvious that there is something wrong with him and it rubbed people the wrong way. if he's a selfish dude and won't be a team player - he'll be blackballed and will be playing in China/gleague/europe. otherwise he's got NBA talent.

[Dalek]

I was amazed that Jalen Johnson went so low in the draft and his summer league was pretty impressive: 19 and 9 and 42% from three. Maybe be somewhat influenced by Sharife Cooper spoonfeeding him looks. Look at how high JT Thor went.

I posted a question as to why everyone thought Scottie Barnes was a significantly better prospect than Jalen Johnson and people basically laughed at me. In the months leading up to the draft several mocks had him higher rated than Barnes and their numbers are very similar. Jalen Johnson had the advantage in blocks, rebounds, and scoring efficiency, while Barnes was better at assists.

Well Barnes went 4th overall and Johnson went 21st so there are clearly some big differences. I'd say the biggest difference is defense. Johnson looked lost on the defensive end at times, showed poor lateral quickness and didn't really put in the effort on that end. Not to mention Scottie seems to love playing the game of basketball and demonstrates excellent character and a desire to get better. Whereas Johnson's character has been questioned dating back to his high school days. Lots of red flags.

Passion for the game is a character question, and to me that has to be the hardest thing to parse and make a decision on a guy. The NBA is full of elite athletes for the most part, so even with a questionable attitude, you can still have success if you have natural physical advantages. I haven't seen any red flags so far.

I trust that Scottie will do well because you can tell he is a hard worker and knows the game, but Johnson is a freak athlete at his size. He shot it better than Scottie from a number of spots and rebounded well.

I think with Johnson in the right system with good players and player development he becomes a star. The problem with Atlanta is they have so many young guys ahead of him: Hunter, Reddish, Heurter, and older guys like Gallo and Collins. Tough to know when he will emerge and if he will given the constraints. Is he going to be patient or end up like Porter Jr. on Cleveland forcing a trade out.

I still love the Scottie pick, but the gap between guys like Johnson and Kuminga don't seem like a clear tier of difference.

[gbball]

I posted a question as to why everyone thought Scottie Barnes was a significantly better prospect than Jalen Johnson and people basically laughed at me. In the months leading up to the draft several mocks had him higher rated than Barnes and their numbers are very similar. Jalen Johnson had the advantage in blocks, rebounds, and scoring efficiency, while Barnes was better at assists.

Well Barnes went 4th overall and Johnson went 21st so there are clearly some big differences. I'd say the biggest difference is defense. Johnson looked lost on the defensive end at times, showed poor lateral quickness and didn't really put in the effort on that end. Not to mention Scottie seems to love playing the game of basketball and demonstrates excellent character and a desire to get better. Whereas Johnson's character has been questioned dating back to his high school days. Lots of red flags.

Passion for the game is a character question, and to me that has to be the hardest thing to parse and make a decision on a guy. The NBA is full of elite athletes for the most part, so even with a questionable attitude, you can still have success if you have natural physical advantages. I haven't seen any red flags so far.

I trust that Scottie will do well because you can tell he is a hard worker and knows the game, but Johnson is a freak athlete at his size. He shot it better than Scottie from a number of spots and rebounded well.

I think with Johnson in the right system with good players and player development he becomes a star. The problem with Atlanta is they have so many young guys ahead of him: Hunter, Reddish, Heurter, and older guys like Gallo and Collins. Tough to know when he will emerge and if he will given the constraints. Is he going to be patient or end up like Porter Jr. on Cleveland forcing a trade out.

I still love the Scottie pick, but the gap between guys like Johnson and Kuminga don't seem like a clear tier of difference.

I think the key difference is Scottie wants to make plays for others and his BBIQ is better. He doesn't project as well an indivdual scorer as those guys, and he's a notch lower athletically, but perhaps he has the rare ability to make his teammates better.

[Los_29]

I posted a question as to why everyone thought Scottie Barnes was a significantly better prospect than Jalen Johnson and people basically laughed at me. In the months leading up to the draft several mocks had him higher rated than Barnes and their numbers are very similar. Jalen Johnson had the advantage in blocks, rebounds, and scoring efficiency, while Barnes was better at assists.

Well Barnes went 4th overall and Johnson went 21st so there are clearly some big differences. I'd say the biggest difference is defense. Johnson looked lost on the defensive end at times, showed poor lateral quickness and didn't really put in the effort on that end. Not to mention Scottie seems to love playing the game of basketball and demonstrates excellent character and a desire to get better. Whereas Johnson's character has been questioned dating back to his high school days. Lots of red flags.

Passion for the game is a character question, and to me that has to be the hardest thing to parse and make a decision on a guy. The NBA is full of elite athletes for the most part, so even with a questionable attitude, you can still have success if you have natural physical advantages. I haven't seen any red flags so far.

I trust that Scottie will do well because you can tell he is a hard worker and knows the game, but Johnson is a freak athlete at his size. He shot it better than Scottie from a number of spots and rebounded well.

I think with Johnson in the right system with good players and player development he becomes a star. The problem with Atlanta is they have so many young guys ahead of him: Hunter, Reddish, Heurter, and older guys like Gallo and Collins. Tough to know when he will emerge and if he will given the constraints. Is he going to be patient or end up like Porter Jr. on Cleveland forcing a trade out.

I still love the Scottie pick, but the gap between guys like Johnson and Kuminga don't seem like a clear tier of difference.

Well Kuminga went 7th so the difference between him and Scottie isn't as wide as it is with Jalen Johnson.

A couple of people have said they haven't seen any issues with Johnson but his issues were pretty well publicized and NBA executives clearly weren't impressed.

Johnson is a skilled player, there is no question about that but Barnes basically does everything that Johnson does (some even better) and on top of that is a defensive force whereas Johnson was pretty bad on that side of the ball. And I haven't mentioned the character differences and all the intangibles that Scottie seems to be full of and Johnson seems to lack.

Lastly, Scottie is much bigger than Johnson. His wingspan was 7'4 while Johnson's was just below 7ft. He's also much bigger and stronger than Johnson. Scottie might be able to guard all 5 positions effectively at the pro level (realistically 4 positions) whereas Johnson really hasn't shown the ability even guard 1 position effectively on a consistent basis.

[Dalek]

Well Barnes went 4th overall and Johnson went 21st so there are clearly some big differences. I'd say the biggest difference is defense. Johnson looked lost on the defensive end at times, showed poor lateral quickness and didn't really put in the effort on that end. Not to mention Scottie seems to love playing the game of basketball and demonstrates excellent character and a desire to get better. Whereas Johnson's character has been questioned dating back to his high school days. Lots of red flags.

Passion for the game is a character question, and to me that has to be the hardest thing to parse and make a decision on a guy. The NBA is full of elite athletes for the most part, so even with a questionable attitude, you can still have success if you have natural physical advantages. I haven't seen any red flags so far.

I trust that Scottie will do well because you can tell he is a hard worker and knows the game, but Johnson is a freak athlete at his size. He shot it better than Scottie from a number of spots and rebounded well.

I think with Johnson in the right system with good players and player development he becomes a star. The problem with Atlanta is they have so many young guys ahead of him: Hunter, Reddish, Heurter, and older guys like Gallo and Collins. Tough to know when he will emerge and if he will given the constraints. Is he going to be patient or end up like Porter Jr. on Cleveland forcing a trade out.

I still love the Scottie pick, but the gap between guys like Johnson and Kuminga don't seem like a clear tier of difference.

I think the key difference is Scottie wants to make plays for others and his BBIQ is better. He doesn't project as well an indivdual scorer as those guys, and he's a notch lower athletically, but perhaps he has the rare ability to make his teammates better.

You are probably right. I think his influence will be about improved team defense and better offensive facilitation. Scottie can right away be a glue guy where the others probably are more me-focused guys who want to try to carry their teams or put up numbers.

Traditionally, Scottie type players are not the top picks, but Toronto is never conventional.

[Los_29]

Passion for the game is a character question, and to me that has to be the hardest thing to parse and make a decision on a guy. The NBA is full of elite athletes for the most part, so even with a questionable attitude, you can still have success if you have natural physical advantages. I haven't seen any red flags so far.

I trust that Scottie will do well because you can tell he is a hard worker and knows the game, but Johnson is a freak athlete at his size. He shot it better than Scottie from a number of spots and rebounded well.

I think with Johnson in the right system with good players and player development he becomes a star. The problem with Atlanta is they have so many young guys ahead of him: Hunter, Reddish, Heurter, and older guys like Gallo and Collins. Tough to know when he will emerge and if he will given the constraints. Is he going to be patient or end up like Porter Jr. on Cleveland forcing a trade out.

I still love the Scottie pick, but the gap between guys like Johnson and Kuminga don't seem like a clear tier of difference.

I think the key difference is Scottie wants to make plays for others and his BBIQ is better. He doesn't project as well an indivdual scorer as those guys, and he's a notch lower athletically, but perhaps he has the rare ability to make his teammates better.

You are probably right. I think his influence will be about improved team defense and better offensive facilitation. Scottie can right away be a glue guy where the others probably are more me-focused guys who want to try to carry their teams or put up numbers.

Traditionally, Scottie type players are not the top picks, but Toronto is never conventional.

I think they are definitely the top picks which is why so many teams had Scottie high up on their board. I agree, Scottie isn't a good scorer at this point but the only ones that are actually good at that aspect right now are Green and Cade and they were drafted #1 and #2. And Green is a talented scorer but at this point that's all he can do. That KPJ/Green backcourt is going to be absolutely atrocious next year. They will both probably score close to 20ppg but they will give up double that on the other end.

You saw glimpses of what Scottie and Mobley could do in Summer League and that's why they were drafted so high. If they both can figure it out they will be superstars. And with Barnes, even if he doesn't figure it out, he's still going to be one heck of a player.

[Nature]

Man if I'm the Raptors I'm making Dalano Banton watch Shawn Livingston highlights on repeat.

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[Reeko]

I don't know where you're going with this when it comes to Jalen Johnson. unless you're a transcendant talent, you don't get away with a **** attitude. I don't think Johnson is a transcendant talent by any means.

This is my whole issue, he doesn't have a $#!t attitude, he just wanted to avoid potentially suffering a serious injury playing meaningless minutes for a college team that was going nowhere right before signing a multi million dollar contract for life changing money.

As far as I can tell, this is behaviour that's consistent with what goes on in the NBA, teams holding out star players to tank and intentionally lose games, players with certain incentives in their contracts who artificially try to meet them by altering the way they play from what they would normally do, teams subverting the rules of free agency by illegally talking with players before the official start of free agency. He should fit right in.

The bad attitude stuff precedes Johnson's time at Duke, it stems all the way back to his high school days. Pretty sure he changed schools like 3 times throughout high school, just quit and went to another team. Then at Duke you have Coach K calling him soft during a game. He's clearly talented, but there were plenty of red flags. He fell to 21 for a reason, and it's not because of the injury.

[Syd-TK3]

Wish we woulda taken Boston

[God Squad]

Wish we woulda taken Boston

I would have taken a lot of players ahead of Johnson tbh. Non summer league revisionist.

Cooper (all day everyday)
Boston
Bassey (all day)
Scottie Lewis (lol)
Sims
Raiquan Grey

I also had Queta and Wisekamp, but they weren't an option. With that said I understand why Boston fell tbh, suspect shooting while not being a defender. But I would have personally taken a chance, but that's never really been Masai's MO.

[HumbleRen]

Wish we woulda taken Boston

I would have taken a lot of players ahead of Johnson tbh. Non summer league revisionist.

Cooper (all day everyday)
Boston
Bassey (all day)
Scottie Lewis (lol)
Sims
Raiquan Grey

I also had Queta and Wisekamp, but they weren't an option. With that said I understand why Boston fell tbh, suspect shooting while not being a defender. But I would have personally taken a chance, but that's never really been Masai's MO.

I’m still in shock that we didn’t pick up Cooper. I get that he doesn’t fit the make up of the team they want to build for the future but at what point do you stop valuing measurements over talent.

Would of easily been the best passer on our roster

[God Squad]

Wish we woulda taken Boston

I would have taken a lot of players ahead of Johnson tbh. Non summer league revisionist.

Cooper (all day everyday)
Boston
Bassey (all day)
Scottie Lewis (lol)
Sims
Raiquan Grey

I also had Queta and Wisekamp, but they weren't an option. With that said I understand why Boston fell tbh, suspect shooting while not being a defender. But I would have personally taken a chance, but that's never really been Masai's MO.

I’m still in shock that we didn’t pick up Cooper. I get that he doesn’t fit the make up of the team they want to build for the future but at what point do you stop valuing measurements over talent.

Would of easily been the best passer on our roster

Don't get me started on Cooper, I'm a huge fan of his. It's 100% the measurements and lack of defense IMO why we passed.

[OAKLEY_2]

Wish we woulda taken Boston

I would have taken a lot of players ahead of Johnson tbh. Non summer league revisionist.

Cooper (all day everyday)
Boston
Bassey (all day)
Scottie Lewis (lol)
Sims
Raiquan Grey

I also had Queta and Wisekamp, but they weren't an option. With that said I understand why Boston fell tbh, suspect shooting while not being a defender. But I would have personally taken a chance, but that's never really been Masai's MO.

When we pick a player 47th overall there little chance those 6 have better careers than Johnson. Basically that is saying my crapshoot of 6 players is better than the Raps scouting where it is likey at least one of those 6 was neck and neck with Johnson on their board anyway. Johnson is going to be in 905 as top 905 project.

[Pointgod]

I was amazed that Jalen Johnson went so low in the draft and his summer league was pretty impressive: 19 and 9 and 42% from three. Maybe be somewhat influenced by Sharife Cooper spoonfeeding him looks. Look at how high JT Thor went.

I posted a question as to why everyone thought Scottie Barnes was a significantly better prospect than Jalen Johnson and people basically laughed at me. In the months leading up to the draft several mocks had him higher rated than Barnes and their numbers are very similar. Jalen Johnson had the advantage in blocks, rebounds, and scoring efficiency, while Barnes was better at assists.

Jalen Johnson could be the steal of the draft.I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up being one of the top 5 players in this draft his potential is that good. NBA GMs are idiots who follow group think and there’s no way he should have slipped out of the lottery. However Barnes is a better passer and is in a different world when it comes to defence. If you look at the per 40 minute averages for both in college (disclaimer I think per minute averages are bull) Johnson is very eye popping.

Johnson (9 games): 21,11,4,2.2 steals, 2.3blks, 54,44,63 shooting splits
Barnes (24 games): 17,7,7,2.5stls,.7blks, 50,28,62 shooting splits

I’d be comfortable putting those numbers against a lot of the players that went in the lottery.

[Syd-TK3]

Wish we woulda taken Boston

I would have taken a lot of players ahead of Johnson tbh. Non summer league revisionist.

Cooper (all day everyday)
Boston
Bassey (all day)
Scottie Lewis (lol)
Sims
Raiquan Grey

I also had Queta and Wisekamp, but they weren't an option. With that said I understand why Boston fell tbh, suspect shooting while not being a defender. But I would have personally taken a chance, but that's never really been Masai's MO.

Boston wasn't actually that bad a defender, I just think it's weird how we sign previously high rated prospects like Stanley and RHJ to try and fix them when it's too late but not try and get first crack at a guy instead where there's still a chance to grow

[prelude00]

character issue.

quit on his team in high school
quit on his team in college

you know Masai and most NBA teams count that as a red flag. I think talent wise, he's really good - but you don't want a cancer in your locker room. he's selfish and that is what cost him. for teams in the lottery - you take him with a lottery pick - you're pretty much taking a huge risk on a player that could set a bad precedence in the locker room and you just invested your short term future on this kid - whose known to quit when times get hard or when it doesn't benefit him anymore. ATL has a veteran team but they are young, but I see them having enough high character guys on team to hopefully get Johnson in line.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2021/2/16/22285449/jalen-johnson-duke-leave-nba-draft-2021

Pundits branding Johnson with the “quitter” moniker are intentionally ignoring the nuance of the situation. A talented player, who took to the court in a middle of a global pandemic, playing on an objectively terrible Duke team, decided it was in his best interest to prepare for the next level. There was never much nobility in the idea of trying to carry a disappointing Blue Devils to the NCAA Tournament in a trying season for everyone involved. Instead, Johnson prioritized his own health, safety, and future by using his time to train for the draft rather than finish out a lost season.

Kawhi?

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[720]

Crazy.

[Federalies]

Who else is buy buying stock in Flynn Inc.?

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