Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 3

[Skates]

Love is useful only as an expiring contract that you hope can play a bit till his contract is over or you can use him as salary ballast at the deadline.

Sexton and Fox may put up similar numbers, but more than their teams value them that way, if other teams saw Sexton as future franchise guy Cleveland would have tons of good offers, instead teams see him as a bad future contract waiting to happen...and they could be wrong about that, just saying its not just the Cavs that don't want to trade and pay for him, and Fox would be very popular on the open market, again, could he be overrated, possibly. Consensus draft picks all seem great until they aren't, so consensus isn't everything.

Mainly I want to get Haliburton and Hield, valuing the Tyrese backcourt of the future very highly, with Hield a necessary veteran for a year or two.

Also I want to get the thread to 100 pages so we can start over, so why not make a post, right?

[Rastas]

Yaaaaa Ben, thank you for keeping the Offseason Not Boring.

[76ciology]

You need someone atleast as good as Tobias if you don’t trade Ben. Because as long as you need Ben, your team will be thirsty for scorers.

Maybe Maxey is good enough to play the role of Tobias, our best shot creator outside Embiid.

But here’s the thing.. right now, we’re not sure of that. And what if we trade Tobias for an elite spot up stretch 4 like Love while Maxey ends up being just as average as he was for us last season? That’s pretty much what happened in the 2019-2020 season when we miscalculated the 16-18ppg of Jj and end up scrambling to generate it from Al and Josh Rich, which both aren’t capable of.

If Maxey can be a 20-24ppg player, I think you can trade Tobias for just a more reliable spot up shooter.

But if Maxey is just a 12-16ppg player (a player not much different from last season), you’re better off holding unto Tobias. Enjoy having a 6th man who can be a microwave scorer while pumping Tobi’s value then unload Tobi in the upcoming offseason with a contract that’s a year closer to expiry.

While if you can trade Tobi for a better scorer, like CJ or Sexton. That would be a no brainer for me.

And lastly, make no mistake about it, Tobi was acquired not to be a spot up shooter but to be a shotcreator. This is where the disconnect lies. Was it the right decision? I think the FO sees Tobi’s scoring to be in the same level with Jimmy’s when he played for us (try to compare Jimmy’s numbers with our team and Tobi’s last season).

Personally, I think we need someone better than Jimmy or Tobi. If that’s not possible then we need both Jimmy and Tobi.

Could Jimmy-JJ-Tobi’s offense be as good as Maxey-Seth-Tobi’s? If it could be as good, will it be good enough to get us over the hump? Let’s not forget even with Jimmy, we still failed to make it past the 2nd round. We weren’t really just a few bounces away from making to the finals.

[Tomjas]

You need someone atleast as good as Tobias if you don’t trade Ben. Because as long as you need Ben, your team will be thirsty for scorers.

Maybe Maxey is good enough to play the role of Tobias, our best shot creator outside Embiid.

But here’s the thing.. right now, we’re not sure of that. And what if we trade Tobias for an elite spot up stretch 4 like Love while Maxey ends up being just as average as he was for us last season? That’s pretty much what happened in the 2019-2020 season when we miscalculated the 16-18ppg of Jj and end up scrambling to generate it from Al and Josh Rich, which both aren’t capable of.

If Maxey can be a 20-24ppg player, I think you can trade Tobias for just a more reliable spot up shooter.

But if Maxey is just a 12-16ppg player (a player not much different from last season), you’re better off holding unto Tobias. Enjoy having a 6th man who can be a microwave scorer while pumping Tobi’s value then unload Tobi in the upcoming offseason with a contract that’s a year closer to expiry.

While if you can trade Tobi for a better scorer, like CJ or Sexton. That would be a no brainer for me.

And lastly, make no mistake about it, Tobi was acquired not to be a spot up shooter but to be a shotcreator. This is where the disconnect lies. Was it the right decision? I think the FO sees Tobi’s scoring to be in the same level with Jimmy’s when he played for us (try to compare Jimmy’s numbers with our team and Tobi’s last season).

Personally, I think we need someone better than Jimmy or Tobi. If that’s not possible then we need both Jimmy and Tobi.

Could Jimmy-JJ-Tobi’s offense be as good as Maxey-Seth-Tobi’s? If it could be as good, will it be good enough to get us over the hump? Let’s not forget even with Jimmy, we still failed to make it past the 2nd round. We weren’t really just a few bounces away from making to the finals.

Tobias has been actively recruiting and welcoming players to the team

I will be surprised if he’s traded

It’s up to a return from Ben trade for improvement so I expect that we will be worse in the short term

[76ciology]

You need someone atleast as good as Tobias if you don’t trade Ben. Because as long as you need Ben, your team will be thirsty for scorers.

Maybe Maxey is good enough to play the role of Tobias, our best shot creator outside Embiid.

But here’s the thing.. right now, we’re not sure of that. And what if we trade Tobias for an elite spot up stretch 4 like Love while Maxey ends up being just as average as he was for us last season? That’s pretty much what happened in the 2019-2020 season when we miscalculated the 16-18ppg of Jj and end up scrambling to generate it from Al and Josh Rich, which both aren’t capable of.

If Maxey can be a 20-24ppg player, I think you can trade Tobias for just a more reliable spot up shooter.

But if Maxey is just a 12-16ppg player (a player not much different from last season), you’re better off holding unto Tobias. Enjoy having a 6th man who can be a microwave scorer while pumping Tobi’s value then unload Tobi in the upcoming offseason with a contract that’s a year closer to expiry.

While if you can trade Tobi for a better scorer, like CJ or Sexton. That would be a no brainer for me.

And lastly, make no mistake about it, Tobi was acquired not to be a spot up shooter but to be a shotcreator. This is where the disconnect lies. Was it the right decision? I think the FO sees Tobi’s scoring to be in the same level with Jimmy’s when he played for us (try to compare Jimmy’s numbers with our team and Tobi’s last season).

Personally, I think we need someone better than Jimmy or Tobi. If that’s not possible then we need both Jimmy and Tobi.

Could Jimmy-JJ-Tobi’s offense be as good as Maxey-Seth-Tobi’s? If it could be as good, will it be good enough to get us over the hump? Let’s not forget even with Jimmy, we still failed to make it past the 2nd round. We weren’t really just a few bounces away from making to the finals.

Tobias has been actively recruiting and welcoming players to the team

I will be surprised if he’s traded

It’s up to a return from Ben trade for improvement so I expect that we will be worse in the short term

Not necessarily dependent on Ben.

If Maxey can be a lot better and we manage to add another scorer or if Milton can rise from the grave, I think that will make us a LOT better. And I see this as more probable than Ben improving.

[Tomjas]

You need someone atleast as good as Tobias if you don’t trade Ben. Because as long as you need Ben, your team will be thirsty for scorers.

Maybe Maxey is good enough to play the role of Tobias, our best shot creator outside Embiid.

But here’s the thing.. right now, we’re not sure of that. And what if we trade Tobias for an elite spot up stretch 4 like Love while Maxey ends up being just as average as he was for us last season? That’s pretty much what happened in the 2019-2020 season when we miscalculated the 16-18ppg of Jj and end up scrambling to generate it from Al and Josh Rich, which both aren’t capable of.

If Maxey can be a 20-24ppg player, I think you can trade Tobias for just a more reliable spot up shooter.

But if Maxey is just a 12-16ppg player (a player not much different from last season), you’re better off holding unto Tobias. Enjoy having a 6th man who can be a microwave scorer while pumping Tobi’s value then unload Tobi in the upcoming offseason with a contract that’s a year closer to expiry.

While if you can trade Tobi for a better scorer, like CJ or Sexton. That would be a no brainer for me.

And lastly, make no mistake about it, Tobi was acquired not to be a spot up shooter but to be a shotcreator. This is where the disconnect lies. Was it the right decision? I think the FO sees Tobi’s scoring to be in the same level with Jimmy’s when he played for us (try to compare Jimmy’s numbers with our team and Tobi’s last season).

Personally, I think we need someone better than Jimmy or Tobi. If that’s not possible then we need both Jimmy and Tobi.

Could Jimmy-JJ-Tobi’s offense be as good as Maxey-Seth-Tobi’s? If it could be as good, will it be good enough to get us over the hump? Let’s not forget even with Jimmy, we still failed to make it past the 2nd round. We weren’t really just a few bounces away from making to the finals.

Tobias has been actively recruiting and welcoming players to the team

I will be surprised if he’s traded

It’s up to a return from Ben trade for improvement so I expect that we will be worse in the short term

Not necessarily dependent on Ben.

If Maxey can be a lot better and we manage to add another scorer or if Milton can rise from the grave, I think that will make us a LOT better. And I see this as more probable than Ben improving.

Ben doesn’t have to improve at all for us to win 50 RS games while Tyrese and particularly Shake need to improve significantly just to be reliable starters and Doc has no recent record of developing young players

Now who are these scorers that are available prior to the season?

The only ones that I can think of are CJ, Fox, Sexton and Brogdon

I might be wrong but I believe that CJ is joined at the hip with Dame until otherwise proven so he’s more likely to be a deadline target if the Blazers are going nowhere

So that leaves us with guys with as many warts as Ben

Brogdon is injury prone, has a history of playoffs failure but at least we’d get other assets back

Fox is a high usage combo guard with below average 3pt% while being one of the worst defenders in the nba (look it up, that’s not hyperbole)

Sexton is a smaller version of Fox and a rental not in demand plus he’s who we want Tyrese to be in a year so what’s the point? One redeeming thing is that we’d also get other assets

Sorry if I don’t share your optimism but we’re likely to be a lot worse IN THE SHORT TERM unless Morey pulls off a miracle

[ecuhus1981]

Hello!

I'm a Nets fan, and in full disclosure, I'm under an indefinite posting ban from the Trades and Transactions board. (That's why I'm not posting this there.) Some mods feel that my Brooklyn trades are too slanted in my own team's favor. Well, this one doesn't involve my team, so hopefully you know that I have no agenda. I just want to see and hear feedback.

Here it is:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/7Jm4pBAfnhmZmh/cavs-sixers-and-blazers

CLE trades Nance/Osman/Sexton/22CLE1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st for McCollum/Thybulle/Joe
The Cavaliers add size and defense on the perimeter.
Garland, McCollum, Okoro, Mobley, Allen
Rubio, Windler, Thybulle, Wade, Love


PHI trades Simmons/Thybulle/Joe/23PHI1st/27PHI1st for Lillard/Jones/Osman
The Sixers push all-in to challenge for a title.
Lillard, Green, Korkmaz, Harris, Embiid
Curry, Milton, Jones, Osman, Drummond


POR trades Lillard/McCollum/Jones for Simmons/Nance/Sexton/22CLE1st/23PHI1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st/27PHI1st
The Blazers retool while staying competitive, and trim $30mil in payroll.
Sexton, Powell, Covington, Simmons, Nurkic
Simons, McLemore, Snell, Nance, Zeller

[Tomjas]

Hello!

I'm a Nets fan, and in full disclosure, I'm under an indefinite posting ban from the Trades and Transactions board. (That's why I'm not posting this there.) Some mods feel that my Brooklyn trades are too slanted in my own team's favor. Well, this one doesn't involve my team, so hopefully you know that I have no agenda. I just want to see and hear feedback.

Here it is:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/7Jm4pBAfnhmZmh/cavs-sixers-and-blazers

CLE trades Nance/Osman/Sexton/22CLE1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st for McCollum/Thybulle/Joe
The Cavaliers add size and defense on the perimeter.
Garland, McCollum, Okoro, Mobley, Allen
Rubio, Windler, Thybulle, Wade, Love


PHI trades Simmons/Thybulle/Joe/23PHI1st/27PHI1st for Lillard/Jones/Osman
The Sixers push all-in to challenge for a title.
Lillard, Green, Korkmaz, Harris, Embiid
Curry, Milton, Jones, Osman, Drummond


POR trades Lillard/McCollum/Jones for Simmons/Nance/Sexton/22CLE1st/23PHI1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st/27PHI1st
The Blazers retool while staying competitive, and trim $30mil in payroll.
Sexton, Powell, Covington, Simmons, Nurkic
Simons, McLemore, Snell, Nance, Zeller

The Blazers are controlled by Jody Allen who is responsible for overseeing assets worth tens of billions of $

The Blazers are currently forecast to be paying $550k in tax next season

That’s a rounding error

Dame was also close to Jody’s brother Paul so I suspect that saving a few $ won’t be the main factor in the equation while he’s in his prime

Finally, if the Blazers trade both Dame & CJ then they should tank

[JRoy]

Hello!

I'm a Nets fan, and in full disclosure, I'm under an indefinite posting ban from the Trades and Transactions board. (That's why I'm not posting this there.) Some mods feel that my Brooklyn trades are too slanted in my own team's favor. Well, this one doesn't involve my team, so hopefully you know that I have no agenda. I just want to see and hear feedback.

Here it is:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/7Jm4pBAfnhmZmh/cavs-sixers-and-blazers

CLE trades Nance/Osman/Sexton/22CLE1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st for McCollum/Thybulle/Joe
The Cavaliers add size and defense on the perimeter.
Garland, McCollum, Okoro, Mobley, Allen
Rubio, Windler, Thybulle, Wade, Love


PHI trades Simmons/Thybulle/Joe/23PHI1st/27PHI1st for Lillard/Jones/Osman
The Sixers push all-in to challenge for a title.
Lillard, Green, Korkmaz, Harris, Embiid
Curry, Milton, Jones, Osman, Drummond


POR trades Lillard/McCollum/Jones for Simmons/Nance/Sexton/22CLE1st/23PHI1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st/27PHI1st
The Blazers retool while staying competitive, and trim $30mil in payroll.
Sexton, Powell, Covington, Simmons, Nurkic
Simons, McLemore, Snell, Nance, Zeller

No thanks from POR.

No desire to get saddled with Sextons contract. Talent downgrade and no good picks. That team is expensive and doesn’t make the playoffs in the west.

[Tomjas]

Hello!

I'm a Nets fan, and in full disclosure, I'm under an indefinite posting ban from the Trades and Transactions board. (That's why I'm not posting this there.) Some mods feel that my Brooklyn trades are too slanted in my own team's favor. Well, this one doesn't involve my team, so hopefully you know that I have no agenda. I just want to see and hear feedback.

Here it is:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/7Jm4pBAfnhmZmh/cavs-sixers-and-blazers

CLE trades Nance/Osman/Sexton/22CLE1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st for McCollum/Thybulle/Joe
The Cavaliers add size and defense on the perimeter.
Garland, McCollum, Okoro, Mobley, Allen
Rubio, Windler, Thybulle, Wade, Love


PHI trades Simmons/Thybulle/Joe/23PHI1st/27PHI1st for Lillard/Jones/Osman
The Sixers push all-in to challenge for a title.
Lillard, Green, Korkmaz, Harris, Embiid
Curry, Milton, Jones, Osman, Drummond


POR trades Lillard/McCollum/Jones for Simmons/Nance/Sexton/22CLE1st/23PHI1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st/27PHI1st
The Blazers retool while staying competitive, and trim $30mil in payroll.
Sexton, Powell, Covington, Simmons, Nurkic
Simons, McLemore, Snell, Nance, Zeller

No thanks from POR.

No desire to get saddled with Sextons contract. Talent downgrade and no good picks. That team is expensive and doesn’t make the playoffs in the west.

The west is the weak conference now

[GutUNC]

Hello!

I'm a Nets fan, and in full disclosure, I'm under an indefinite posting ban from the Trades and Transactions board. (That's why I'm not posting this there.) Some mods feel that my Brooklyn trades are too slanted in my own team's favor. Well, this one doesn't involve my team, so hopefully you know that I have no agenda. I just want to see and hear feedback.

Here it is:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/7Jm4pBAfnhmZmh/cavs-sixers-and-blazers

CLE trades Nance/Osman/Sexton/22CLE1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st for McCollum/Thybulle/Joe
The Cavaliers add size and defense on the perimeter.
Garland, McCollum, Okoro, Mobley, Allen
Rubio, Windler, Thybulle, Wade, Love


PHI trades Simmons/Thybulle/Joe/23PHI1st/27PHI1st for Lillard/Jones/Osman
The Sixers push all-in to challenge for a title.
Lillard, Green, Korkmaz, Harris, Embiid
Curry, Milton, Jones, Osman, Drummond


POR trades Lillard/McCollum/Jones for Simmons/Nance/Sexton/22CLE1st/23PHI1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st/27PHI1st
The Blazers retool while staying competitive, and trim $30mil in payroll.
Sexton, Powell, Covington, Simmons, Nurkic
Simons, McLemore, Snell, Nance, Zeller

No thanks from POR.

No desire to get saddled with Sextons contract. Talent downgrade and no good picks. That team is expensive and doesn’t make the playoffs in the west.

Speaking nothing about the value of the trade overall, you've got to stop with the "no good picks" refrain. You've got a 2022 pick from a team with CJ McCollum and little else, a '24 and a '26 pick from a bad franchise and a '27 pick from a team that's likely in a rebuild then.

You don't want to deal Lillard until he officially asks out, which is totally understandable, but "no good picks" is categorically false here.

[JRoy]

Hello!

I'm a Nets fan, and in full disclosure, I'm under an indefinite posting ban from the Trades and Transactions board. (That's why I'm not posting this there.) Some mods feel that my Brooklyn trades are too slanted in my own team's favor. Well, this one doesn't involve my team, so hopefully you know that I have no agenda. I just want to see and hear feedback.

Here it is:

https://fanspo.com/nba/s/general/trades/7Jm4pBAfnhmZmh/cavs-sixers-and-blazers

CLE trades Nance/Osman/Sexton/22CLE1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st for McCollum/Thybulle/Joe
The Cavaliers add size and defense on the perimeter.
Garland, McCollum, Okoro, Mobley, Allen
Rubio, Windler, Thybulle, Wade, Love


PHI trades Simmons/Thybulle/Joe/23PHI1st/27PHI1st for Lillard/Jones/Osman
The Sixers push all-in to challenge for a title.
Lillard, Green, Korkmaz, Harris, Embiid
Curry, Milton, Jones, Osman, Drummond


POR trades Lillard/McCollum/Jones for Simmons/Nance/Sexton/22CLE1st/23PHI1st/24CLE1st/26CLE1st/27PHI1st
The Blazers retool while staying competitive, and trim $30mil in payroll.
Sexton, Powell, Covington, Simmons, Nurkic
Simons, McLemore, Snell, Nance, Zeller

No thanks from POR.

No desire to get saddled with Sextons contract. Talent downgrade and no good picks. That team is expensive and doesn’t make the playoffs in the west.

Speaking nothing about the value of the trade overall, you've got to stop with the "no good picks" refrain. You've got a 2022 pick from a team with CJ McCollum and little else, a '24 and a '26 pick from a bad franchise and a '27 pick from a team that's likely in a rebuild then.

You don't want to deal Lillard until he officially asks out, which is totally understandable, but "no good picks" is categorically false here.

I disagree.

Maybe I like Mobley Garland duo more than you do. I wouldn’t count on them being cellar dwellers for too much longer and picks 5-6 years out have little to no value for a superstar.

[GutUNC]

No thanks from POR.

No desire to get saddled with Sextons contract. Talent downgrade and no good picks. That team is expensive and doesn’t make the playoffs in the west.

Speaking nothing about the value of the trade overall, you've got to stop with the "no good picks" refrain. You've got a 2022 pick from a team with CJ McCollum and little else, a '24 and a '26 pick from a bad franchise and a '27 pick from a team that's likely in a rebuild then.

You don't want to deal Lillard until he officially asks out, which is totally understandable, but "no good picks" is categorically false here.

I disagree.

Maybe I like Mobley Garland duo more than you do. I wouldn’t count on them being cellar dwellers for too much longer and picks 5-6 years out have little to no value for a superstar.

Sam Hinkie jumps up from his bed with a mighty gasp and his heart pounding, unsure as to why....

[thenbaman]

If the sixers can't get good return,run it back.

[VeritasTri]

I cant think of a team in the NBA that would be interested in paying Harris 40M in a couple of years.

Tired of saying this, but yes many teams would be happy to take on Harris' deal. Not a defense of Tobias or anything but this is just plain, mundane facts that we all should know enough about the NBA to see.

A few non-all-star top-50ish vets are on better deals than Tobias--McCollum, Lavine (for one more year), maybe Jerami Grant--but those guys have significant trade value and you aren't going to get them for just expirings (or anything close to that). Tobias making a little more money than them just means that he's not quite as good of an asset--but he's not remotely close to an untradeable albatross. There are really no other options for a team who wants to acquire a top-50 player: you can pay an arm and a leg in a trade for the handful of good deals (or guys still on rookie deals) who are top 50, or you can pay a little more $ than is ideal.

The Hornets happily paid an aging, constantly broken Gordon Hayward $30m a season last year, Mike Conley just finished up a full vet max deal that teams were fighting over to pay him in the trade market, Westbrook just got traded for expiring vets who are very playable despite having 2/92 left on his deal. We don't need to pretend like we don't see these contracts being valued and moved all the time just because we're upset Tobias isn't a real superstar.

Why are you talking about the value of players who are clearly better than Harris on deals which pay them half as much? Even if Lavine made the same as Harris he would have value because hes a legit 27+PPG efficient scorer who can score from 3 levels and take the last shot.

Gordon Hayward is closer to the same tier as Harris and he has basically no value despite making 6M less this year. Seriously, who is giving anything for the right to pay Gordon Hayward? Players like Harris and Hayward are negative assets, you have to bribe teams to take them. How is Harris any different from a bum like Wiggins? Well, other than being paid even more than him. The wolves had to attach a lightly protected 1st to dump him for another guy who is also overpaid.

Nobody wants to pay Harris, he is a negative contract, and in a couple years will be making 41M for borderline 3rd wheel performance. All this talk of trading him for players of worth is comical.

[zaz102]

If the sixers can't get good return,run it back.

Ben might be listed on the roster at beginning of the season, but they aren't running it back.

[the_process]

Harris and Simmons for Barnes, Haliburton, Hield, and Bagley. Find a third team to take Hield and Bagley and give up something more useful but equally awful, like Ricky Rubio or something.

[kuclas]

Harris and Simmons for Barnes, Haliburton, Hield, and Bagley. Find a third team to take Hield and Bagley and give up something more useful but equally awful, like Ricky Rubio or something.

I don’t trust any Sacramento players stats on poor defensive team. All their offensive stats are inflated. Look Holmes always good offensive player. He just got paid 4/55 million average 14/8 in 29 minutes. We all seen him play defense. It’s not good. Even Sixers kings game this past season. He’s not getting back on defense. So you can score points but giving up more points is just as bad

So how good is Barnes still?

If fox is putting up 25 on 19 shots on poor efficiency. Ben Simmons still can’t shoot but average 25/8/9 on the kings as main option on 19 shots. Would be still be on his case. No they would just stat hunt. And think he’s doing good

[76ciology]

Read on Twitter

Most consistent 20ppg scorer i guess in terms of frequency

[76ciology]

Watch on YouTube