Ben Simmons Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[Klomp]

Every team would be trying to get him if the asking price was right. It takes two teams to make a trade and all reports are that Morey is asking for the moon for Simmons.

This is why I would caution those who think we will be able to get Simmons without giving up McDaniels. If Morey drops his asking price that far, there will be other suitors that join the chase for him. Even with McDaniels it will be difficult.

[KGdaBom]

Basically either we are a team that wins a ring/can or not.

It's a pretty decent mentality. If Simmons was highly tradeable asset, then every team who is in that position would be vying to get him.

Let's put it this way I and probably most of the posters who are against trading for Simmons wouldn't be against trading for him if the target was a young KD.

Simmons is not the piece that wins this team a championship and for that fact most teams.

Let's put it this way, if we were talking about trading for Giannis, I would throw most everything sans KAT to get Giannis.

Because once you have a Giannis/Luka/Curry/Durant type player you just need to fill in the blanks. You don't have to worry about whether or not he has teammates that score more than them.

Simmons isn't a face of the franchise player, but he's definitely being paid as one. I feel like a lot of posters don't grasp that.

He's not an upper tier franchise cornerstone player. He's just disgruntled star who has a lot going against him.

You really believe this stuff you post?

If you don't have an argument or anything to contribute don't post.

Simmons is without any question whatsoever a player who can lead to winning championships. That's my argument. I just had a hard time believing you could really believe what you were posting.

[Mattya]

If we can get Simmons without giving Towns, DLo, Edwards or McDaniels you laugh all the way to the bank. Don’t care about salary. That is the benefit of having a rookie scale contract for Edwards. You hope DLo takes a pay cut and the Simmons takes a pay cut the year after Edwards extension. That team is good enough to be in the playoffs even if it was Towns, Simmons and DLo. You are betting on Edwards to keep showing his post ASB improvement if you want a contender.

[King Malta]

harris is better than dlo though:/ and Embiid better than Towns lately.

Which is why he needs to be added to Kat, DLo and ANT at minimum or we became Philly at best. Might as well put Simmons on the market the second you get him, because we know that is not a winning formula.

How does a Wolves fan have this sense of entitlement?

[Howard Cosell]

I have been been against trading for Simmons from day 1 but now I’m convinced we should trade for the guy and have him be our Dennis Rodman with ball handling skills. Put him at PF on offense and do whatever is best for the team on defense. Have Simmons guard the opponents best offensive player.

Twolves should trade 3 FRPs in a 3 team deal and anyone should be available on Minnesota’s roster with the exception of KAT and ANT.

Go for it.

[Howard Cosell]

The arguments of my fellow anti-Simmons posters have been falling flat lately. If this grand experiment doesn’t work for next 2 years you start trading the individual parts to get back your FRP’s. I do not know if Rosas can get it done but now I’m supporting his efforts.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[FinnTheHuman]

Read on Twitter

Brook not shooting 3's was era-specific, he's always had mid-range game which meant he could extend his range. Simmons doesn't have mid-range game and shoots FTs like Shaq in an era when everybody is being extra-encouraged to learn to shoot. I'm down to get him here, but don't ever hope that he's gonna become a shooter at any point lol

[Klomp]

Brook not shooting 3's was era-specific, he's always had mid-range game which meant he could extend his range. Simmons doesn't have mid-range game and shoots FTs like Shaq in an era when everybody is being extra-encouraged to learn to shoot. I'm down to get him here, but don't ever hope that he's gonna become a shooter at any point lol

I'd argue that in the era of analytics, him choosing to completely eliminate shots he's not efficient at (midrange, 3-pointers) is actually the definition of being era-specific as well.

[FinnTheHuman]

Brook not shooting 3's was era-specific, he's always had mid-range game which meant he could extend his range. Simmons doesn't have mid-range game and shoots FTs like Shaq in an era when everybody is being extra-encouraged to learn to shoot. I'm down to get him here, but don't ever hope that he's gonna become a shooter at any point lol

I'd argue that in the era of analytics, him choosing to completely eliminate shots he's not efficient at (midrange, 3-pointers) is actually the definition of being era-specific as well.

You're now arguing a completely different point than the point the tweet you shared argues. Yes, it's good that he's not taking the shots he's not efficient at, I agree with that, it just puts a lower ceiling on him that he's definitely never going to learn how to be efficient at shooting 3's.

[SO_MONEY]

Middling would be worse than being bad.

So you're saying you would rather have the current iteration of the Timberwolves over the 1996-2004 Timberwolves?

I am saying that that period of Timberwolves basketball was in many situations indictive of where you don't want to be. Many mistakes were made and simple decisions on who to keep, who to let go of, not to do under the table deals ect... would have put us in a better place. And we finally after being stuck made some good moves and had a team that you wanted, but our luck...that lasted 1 year. Point being you don't perpetuate mediocre performance...it is disinteresting and goes nowhere.

[thinktank]

The arguments of my fellow anti-Simmons posters have been falling flat lately. If this grand experiment doesn’t work for next 2 years you start trading the individual parts to get back your FRP’s. I do not know if Rosas can get it done but now I’m supporting his efforts.

Agreed.

[Irishniner]

Hi guys, new member here.

Ok, so a couple of things:
1. What do we have to give up to get him and would it be worthwhile?
The players I would be 100% unwilling to trade are KAT, Edwards and ideally, unless they absolutely demand it and they lower the other asks because of including him, McDaniels. I wanna hold onto Pat Bev as well. we need as much defense and solid 3 point shooting as possible.

I would offer D'angelo, plus maybe Beasley and 1 or two 1sts, as part of a deal with the 76ers or a 3 team deal, whatever. That's our Ins and Outs. I'm not sure how much Dlo moves the needle for the money he's on. I think he fits in very well on a team like the sixers who are loaded with long, scrappy defenders and need shooting and creation around Embiid.

That sounds like a lot and it is, but I feel like defensive improvement is an absolute MUST. I think KAT + 2nd year Ant + a few good knockdown shooters around Ben with Finch coaching a smart, modern offense = a very solid offense. Add a few savvy 3 and D role players and we have a pretty good 2 way roster. I think that's worthwhile.

2. The free agency thread is mostly oncerned with power forwards. If we sign Ben and keep Beverley, do we need a PF anymore???

[SO_MONEY]

The arguments of my fellow anti-Simmons posters have been falling flat lately. If this grand experiment doesn’t work for next 2 years you start trading the individual parts to get back your FRP’s. I do not know if Rosas can get it done but now I’m supporting his efforts.

Agreed.

The problem is if you try and make moves two years from now, you probably don't get back what you spent. So if Simmons is worth what some people think he is, the reality is we should just trade KAT. I don't think Simmons is worth what some people think, so I am all for targeting him even though I suspect he won't develop, his contract will be a rope around our necks, but a loose one if we don't give up much, one that will help us win and fill voids so long as we are willing to spend. It is a last ditch effort to build around KAT, it is what it is, but you are not likely to recoup that cost if the experiment fails.

[Klomp]

2. The free agency thread is mostly oncerned with power forwards. If we sign Ben and keep Beverley, do we need a PF anymore???

If we trade Russell, Simmons will likely split time between PF and PG. However, keeping McDaniels can allow for some more PF minutes to be filled.

[SO_MONEY]

harris is better than dlo though:/ and Embiid better than Towns lately.

Which is why he needs to be added to Kat, DLo and ANT at minimum or we became Philly at best. Might as well put Simmons on the market the second you get him, because we know that is not a winning formula.

How does a Wolves fan have this sense of entitlement?

It is not entitlement, I just want to build right to not waste time on a team that doesn't have a chance or isn't building towards one. Entitlement? This is the offensive misleading rhetoric destroying conversation.

[Krapinsky]

Which is why he needs to be added to Kat, DLo and ANT at minimum or we became Philly at best. Might as well put Simmons on the market the second you get him, because we know that is not a winning formula.

How does a Wolves fan have this sense of entitlement?

It is not entitlement, I just want to build right to not waste time on a team that doesn't have a chance or isn't building towards one. Entitlement? This is the offensive misleading rhetoric destroying conversation.

The concern about becoming “Philly at best” for a team that has been as awful as the Wolves is perplexing to say the least. Please enlighten us how you, So Money, would turn us into a team better than Philly has been over these last four years. Specifically, what would be your strategy to turn the Wolves into a title contending team with higher upside than Embiid-Harris-Simmons trifecta?

[SO_MONEY]

How does a Wolves fan have this sense of entitlement?

It is not entitlement, I just want to build right to not waste time on a team that doesn't have a chance or isn't building towards one. Entitlement? This is the offensive misleading rhetoric destroying conversation.

The concern about becoming “Philly at best” for a team that has been as awful as the Wolves is perplexing to say the least. Please enlighten us how you, So Money, would turn us into a team better than Philly has been over these last four years. Specifically, what would be your strategy to turn the Wolves into a title contending team with higher upside than Embiid-Harris-Simmons trifecta?

You follow best practices and the order of operations, you don't compound mistakes, you buy low and sell high, you accumulate flexibility and aquire assets, you judiciously spend and at a time your team is experiencing growth and development. You might get to a point that your team can't better or is declining, that is when you cut your losses and start the process over. You act as if I don't understand my very own philosophy, like those questions mean something.

Entitlement? No! I don't expect a good team just be handed over or we deserve one by virtue of existing, it takes hard work and effort, smarts and ingenuity, patience and discipline.

Contextually, not even sure why you used that word other than to insult me.

[shrink]

Just to put some numbers to Simmons trade without DLo …

The three max deals will cost you $100. Edwards is anther $10. Lux threshold is $136.

That’s actually not that bad. The bigger concern is when DLo’s deal comes up again and Edwards wants another max. Although, everything seems to suggest that the cap is about to go way up when the new TV deal kicks in in a couple years, giving us some more room and making these deals seem better.

You don’t think so? $26 mil to fill eleven roster spots? $2.3 each isn’t much more than the minimum. And that’s assuming we could get PHI to take Prince, Beasley AND Beverley, because we can’t put $12 mil into a single guy.

Agree with you on the tv deal, but until then, we are going to struggle to afford a winning team.

Edit: maybe you would need to get Taylo and ARod to agree to go into the lux this year regardless. If our team is filled with vet min deals, and we are keeping those four players, how do we add salary? Trade 6 min players for a $15 mil starter? Each season, we could add an MLE player, but we don’t have much flexibility to grow the payroll either way.

[thinktank]

You follow best practices and the order of operations, you don't compound mistakes, you buy low and sell high, you accumulate flexibility and aquire assets, you judiciously spend and at a time your team is experiencing growth and development. You might get to a point that your team can't better or is declining, that is when you cut your losses and start the process over.

You can't do all of that at the same time.

And your plan offers ZERO NAMES to go after.

Might as well be talking about how to restore a classic car.