Ben Simmons Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[theGreatRC]

I'm still standing by what I said a few weeks ago; I would give all the 1sts Morey is asking for if all it took was Beasley + filler + the picks.

DLO/Beverly
Ant/Nowell
Jaden/Okogie
Ben/Vando
KAT/Naz

I think Prince would need to be in the deal to make it work, but that is a top 4 western team if Ant & Jaden take 2nd year leaps. Got 2 1/2 all stars in the lineup and a SG that is projected to be top tier

[Krapinsky]

I mean, we're supposed to send DLo the other way, idk why everybody is so enamored with keeping him. He's 3rd on my list of who to keep between him, McDaniels and Beasley. If they'd take DLo and 3 firsts, I'm down to do that.

My sense is Morey might not want D-Lo. Whatever we send to the 76ers might just be ammo for a future trade down the line, i.e. Lillard or Beal. In that regard, Morey might actually prefer expiring contracts and draft picks/young players, which might be more desirable to a rebuilding team.

I don't think we are willing to include DLo, so it all works out then. Beasley, Naz, Prince and a 1st. Add Bol and a second first for Maxey.

We can only wish, but Sacramento or another team would likely top that offer.

These trades always initially sting, but over time the team getting the best player almost always wins the trade. The exception would be if the best player is way past his prime (a la Pierce and Garnett to the Nets).

Think back to all the 'star' player trades that have happened over the years. Harden to Brooklyn, Harden to Houston, Paul to Clippers, Garnett to Boston, Allen to Boston, Love to Cleveland, Webber to Kings, Melo to Knicks, Howard to Lakers, Holiday to Milwauke, George to OKC. The team trading away the best player in the deal rarely get the best side of the deal.

[SO_MONEY]

My sense is Morey might not want D-Lo. Whatever we send to the 76ers might just be ammo for a future trade down the line, i.e. Lillard or Beal. In that regard, Morey might actually prefer expiring contracts and draft picks/young players, which might be more desirable to a rebuilding team.

I don't think we are willing to include DLo, so it all works out then. Beasley, Naz, Prince and a 1st. Add Bol and a second first for Maxey.

We can only wish, but Sacramento or another team would likely top that offer.

These trades always initially sting, but over time the team getting the best player almost always wins the trade. The exception would be if the best player is way past his prime (a la Pierce and Garnett to the Nets).

Think back to all the 'star' player trades that have happened over the years. Harden to Brooklyn, Harden to Houston, Paul to Clippers, Garnett to Boston, Allen to Boston, Love to Cleveland, Webber to Kings, Melo to Knicks, Howard to Lakers, Holiday to Milwauke, George to OKC. The team trading away the best player in the deal rarely get the best side of the deal.

I don't think SAC beats the offer, I don't think they would trade Fox or Hali, which they would need to do to beat that offer.

[Krapinsky]

I'm still standing by what I said a few weeks ago; I would give all the 1sts Morey is asking for if all it took was Beasley + filler + the picks.

DLO/Beverly
Ant/Nowell
Jaden/Okogie
Ben/Vando
KAT/Naz

I think Prince would need to be in the deal to make it work, but that is a top 4 western team if Ant & Jaden take 2nd year leaps. Got 2 1/2 all stars in the lineup and a SG that is projected to be top tier

My guess is Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, and picks is going to be the max offer. It... will... sting. But when we start out 8-2 that sting will be long gone.

Wolves will round out roster with Millsap signing.

D-Lo/Beverly/Wright
Edwards/Nowell
Simmons/Okogie/Layman
Millsap/Vanderbilt/Knight
Towns/Naz

[Klomp]

Phl really messed this up. If its true that Rich Paul really doesn't want his clients there...they are essentially being blackballed by one of the most powerful agents in basketball.

If players can find a way to leave, then owners need to find a way to pack their bags and be off the hook for the $$$ … this is where pro sports lose credibility

They can...it's called making a trade.

[Krapinsky]

I don't think we are willing to include DLo, so it all works out then. Beasley, Naz, Prince and a 1st. Add Bol and a second first for Maxey.

We can only wish, but Sacramento or another team would likely top that offer.

These trades always initially sting, but over time the team getting the best player almost always wins the trade. The exception would be if the best player is way past his prime (a la Pierce and Garnett to the Nets).

Think back to all the 'star' player trades that have happened over the years. Harden to Brooklyn, Harden to Houston, Paul to Clippers, Garnett to Boston, Allen to Boston, Love to Cleveland, Webber to Kings, Melo to Knicks, Howard to Lakers, Holiday to Milwauke, George to OKC. The team trading away the best player in the deal rarely get the best side of the deal.

I don't think SAC beats the offer, I don't think they would trade Fox or Hali, which they would need to do to beat that offer.

I think Fox would be in the deal because he's not a great fit with Simmons, they would want to get off that contract, and they have Mitchell and Haliburton to hold down the back court.

But even if Fox isn't in the deal,

Hield + Mitchell + picks easily trumps that Wolves offer.

[Irishniner]

My sense is Morey might not want D-Lo. Whatever we send to the 76ers might just be ammo for a future trade down the line, i.e. Lillard or Beal. In that regard, Morey might actually prefer expiring contracts and draft picks/young players, which might be more desirable to a rebuilding team.

I don't think we are willing to include DLo, so it all works out then. Beasley, Naz, Prince and a 1st. Add Bol and a second first for Maxey.

We can only wish, but Sacramento or another team would likely top that offer.

These trades always initially sting, but over time the team getting the best player almost always wins the trade. The exception would be if the best player is way past his prime (a la Pierce and Garnett to the Nets).

Think back to all the 'star' player trades that have happened over the years. Harden to Brooklyn, Harden to Houston, Paul to Clippers, Garnett to Boston, Allen to Boston, Love to Cleveland, Webber to Kings, Melo to Knicks, Howard to Lakers, Holiday to Milwauke, George to OKC. The team trading away the best player in the deal rarely get the best side of the deal.

I agree. We have to give them something decent back. Ultimately, the best player in the trade is usually the deciding factor in who wins a trade.

If it's say Dlo, Beasley + 2 1sts with some protections on them, that's a reasonable trade for both parties. That's too much salary for Philly tho so not sure.

[SO_MONEY]

We can only wish, but Sacramento or another team would likely top that offer.

These trades always initially sting, but over time the team getting the best player almost always wins the trade. The exception would be if the best player is way past his prime (a la Pierce and Garnett to the Nets).

Think back to all the 'star' player trades that have happened over the years. Harden to Brooklyn, Harden to Houston, Paul to Clippers, Garnett to Boston, Allen to Boston, Love to Cleveland, Webber to Kings, Melo to Knicks, Howard to Lakers, Holiday to Milwauke, George to OKC. The team trading away the best player in the deal rarely get the best side of the deal.

I don't think SAC beats the offer, I don't think they would trade Fox or Hali, which they would need to do to beat that offer.

I think Fox would be in the deal because he's not a great fit with Simmons, they would want to get off that contract, and they have Mitchell and Haliburton to hold down the back court.

But even if Fox isn't in the deal,

Hield + Mitchell + picks easily trumps that Wolves offer.

I don't think they trade either Fox or Hali for Simmons and that doesn't beat MNs offer.

[SO_MONEY]

I don't think we are willing to include DLo, so it all works out then. Beasley, Naz, Prince and a 1st. Add Bol and a second first for Maxey.

We can only wish, but Sacramento or another team would likely top that offer.

These trades always initially sting, but over time the team getting the best player almost always wins the trade. The exception would be if the best player is way past his prime (a la Pierce and Garnett to the Nets).

Think back to all the 'star' player trades that have happened over the years. Harden to Brooklyn, Harden to Houston, Paul to Clippers, Garnett to Boston, Allen to Boston, Love to Cleveland, Webber to Kings, Melo to Knicks, Howard to Lakers, Holiday to Milwauke, George to OKC. The team trading away the best player in the deal rarely get the best side of the deal.

I agree. We have to give them something decent back. Ultimately, the best player in the trade is usually the deciding factor in who wins a trade.

If it's say Dlo, Beasley + 2 1sts with some protections on them, that's a reasonable trade for both parties. That's too much salary for Philly tho so not sure.

They are not going to trade DLo for him. I question 2 FRPs at this point, but maybe. Simmons doesn't have that value, you would be paying STAR prices, when he is worth roughly what Vucivic brought back.

[Klomp]

I’ll need to see it first before I think we’ll draw free agents even if we are a contender, and that’s overlooking the issue of how we’d pay them. I look at Milwaukee, and half their roster was unplayable.

And it didn't matter for Milwaukee, because they assembled star power at the top.

It didn’t matter because they didn’t play LAL or BRK at full strength, because .. HEY LOOK! THE TOPIC! .. injuries to “assembled star power at the top” based team is no sure pathway to success.

This is getting frustrating, because it seems like that was yet another meaningless contradictions. Especially when some of the people opposed to the trade demand specifics, but completely overlook the specifics when they don’t fit their case.

Do you believe MIN will draw free agents if they improve, when Milwaukee could not? And MIL’s three at the top are better than ours.

Well obviously injuries matter. They matter whether you've got depth or not.

Pippen didn't win a ring in 1993-94 and 1994-95 without Jordan (his retirement essentially no different than an injury). Was Chicago wrong for having Pippen (building around star power)? Or should they have traded him for a theoretical package of Gugliotta, Laettner, Rider and picks?

But when healthy, stars win in this league. Teams just don't win often built like the 2003-05 Pistons with a bunch of role players and little star power.

At the end of the day, I'd rather have more star power than less.

[IceManBK1]

I'm still standing by what I said a few weeks ago; I would give all the 1sts Morey is asking for if all it took was Beasley + filler + the picks.

DLO/Beverly
Ant/Nowell
Jaden/Okogie
Ben/Vando
KAT/Naz

I think Prince would need to be in the deal to make it work, but that is a top 4 western team if Ant & Jaden take 2nd year leaps. Got 2 1/2 all stars in the lineup and a SG that is projected to be top tier

My guess is Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, and picks is going to be the max offer. It... will... sting. But when we start out 8-2 that sting will be long gone.

Wolves will round out roster with Millsap signing.

D-Lo/Beverly/Wright
Edwards/Nowell
Simmons/Okogie/Layman
Millsap/Vanderbilt/Knight
Towns/Naz

I'm kinda hoping we keep Prince and trade beasley, layman, mcdaniels, vanderbilt (sign and trade 5 mil/yr)okogie<-that about matches simmons salary, plus 2 firsts and 1 second rd picks.

Dlo/Beverly
Edwards/Novell
Prince/Avery Bradley or Wesley Mathews(vet min)
Simmons/Biyomobo(1 yr 3 mil)
Towns/Reid

[Krapinsky]

We can only wish, but Sacramento or another team would likely top that offer.

These trades always initially sting, but over time the team getting the best player almost always wins the trade. The exception would be if the best player is way past his prime (a la Pierce and Garnett to the Nets).

Think back to all the 'star' player trades that have happened over the years. Harden to Brooklyn, Harden to Houston, Paul to Clippers, Garnett to Boston, Allen to Boston, Love to Cleveland, Webber to Kings, Melo to Knicks, Howard to Lakers, Holiday to Milwauke, George to OKC. The team trading away the best player in the deal rarely get the best side of the deal.

I agree. We have to give them something decent back. Ultimately, the best player in the trade is usually the deciding factor in who wins a trade.

If it's say Dlo, Beasley + 2 1sts with some protections on them, that's a reasonable trade for both parties. That's too much salary for Philly tho so not sure.

They are not going to trade DLo for him. I question 2 FRPs at this point, but maybe. Simmons doesn't have that value, you would be paying STAR prices, when he is worth roughly what Vucivic brought back.

Vucevic was traded at age 30. He still returned two unprotected 1sts and a recent top 7 pick.

[SO_MONEY]

I'm still standing by what I said a few weeks ago; I would give all the 1sts Morey is asking for if all it took was Beasley + filler + the picks.

DLO/Beverly
Ant/Nowell
Jaden/Okogie
Ben/Vando
KAT/Naz

I think Prince would need to be in the deal to make it work, but that is a top 4 western team if Ant & Jaden take 2nd year leaps. Got 2 1/2 all stars in the lineup and a SG that is projected to be top tier

My guess is Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, and picks is going to be the max offer. It... will... sting. But when we start out 8-2 that sting will be long gone.

Wolves will round out roster with Millsap signing.

D-Lo/Beverly/Wright
Edwards/Nowell
Simmons/Okogie/Layman
Millsap/Vanderbilt/Knight
Towns/Naz

I'm kinda hoping we keep Prince and trade beasley, layman, mcdaniels, vanderbilt (sign and trade 5 mil/yr)okogie<-that about matches simmons salary, plus 2 firsts and 1 second rd picks.

Dlo/Beverly
Edwards/Novell
Prince/Avery Bradley or Wesley Mathews(vet min)
Simmons/Biyomobo(1 yr 3 mil)
Towns/Reid

Yikes man.

[Baseline81]

I'm kinda hoping we keep Prince and trade beasley, layman, mcdaniels, vanderbilt (sign and trade 5 mil/yr)okogie<-that about matches simmons salary, plus 2 firsts and 1 second rd picks.

Dlo/Beverly
Edwards/Novell
Prince/Avery Bradley or Wesley Mathews(vet min)
Simmons/Biyomobo(1 yr 3 mil)
Towns/Reid

You continue to have the Wolves trading five players for Simmons. Doubtful Philly or another team has that many roster spots available.

[IceManBK1]

I'm kinda hoping we keep Prince and trade beasley, layman, mcdaniels, vanderbilt (sign and trade 5 mil/yr)okogie<-that about matches simmons salary, plus 2 firsts and 1 second rd picks.

Dlo/Beverly
Edwards/Novell
Prince/Avery Bradley or Wesley Mathews(vet min)
Simmons/Biyomobo(1 yr 3 mil)
Towns/Reid

You continue to have the Wolves trading five players for Simmons. Doubtful Philly or another team has that many roster spots available.

They can waive a couple lol...or waive couple of their own.

[SO_MONEY]

I agree. We have to give them something decent back. Ultimately, the best player in the trade is usually the deciding factor in who wins a trade.

If it's say Dlo, Beasley + 2 1sts with some protections on them, that's a reasonable trade for both parties. That's too much salary for Philly tho so not sure.

They are not going to trade DLo for him. I question 2 FRPs at this point, but maybe. Simmons doesn't have that value, you would be paying STAR prices, when he is worth roughly what Vucivic brought back.

Vucevic was traded at age 30. He still returned two unprotected 1sts and a recent top 7 pick.

Beasley, Naz and a 1st is right in that range.

Gordon was traded for even less, not 30.

Simmons is worth roughly what Vucivic brought back.

[IceManBK1]

some philly fans are content with Prince, Beasley and McDaniels and an unprotected 1st and some pick swaps...i mean, prince beasley and McDaniels is most realistic trio along with the picks if we do a straight up trade. we gotta wait til 9/12 though, until prince is eligible to be traded in a package.

[Note30]

Basically either we are a team that wins a ring/can or not.

This is literally the mindset of the process which led to tanking and drafting Simmons in the first place. With this logic we can tank, hope to find the next Lebron or Giannis in the draft, hope they develop into a top 3 NBA player, and then hope they elect to resign with MN for the long haul. Good luck with all that. That requires so much good fortune and luck and the process is much much harder now because of the lottery odds.

The Spurs lucked into Duncan, which led to a 20-year dynasty. Giannis was a mid first round pick. That's how all teams work. Playing field is equal on that front. Instead of drafting Shabazz and Gorgui, we could have drafted Giannis and Gobert, yeah it's a little luck but its also skill at identifying talent.

It's a pretty decent mentality. If Simmons was highly tradeable asset, then every team who is in that position would be vying to get him.

This is not a logical statement. Every team would be trying to get him if the asking price was right. It takes two teams to make a trade and all reports are that Morey is asking for the moon for Simmons. Just because there aren’t teams out there willing to trade a young star and 4 first rounders sandwiched between pick swaps doesn’t mean Simmons isn’t highly tradeable.

He's not a highly coveted player that's the point. Highly tradeable asset was the wrong term. If he was super highly coveted across the league, someone would have paid the cost, even with the shortage of picks in the league.

Let's put it this way I and probably most of the posters who are against trading for Simmons wouldn't be against trading for him if the target was a young KD.

You win he’s not young KD lol. What a silly statement. No team is going to trade a young KD unless forced to and in that scenario the young KD isn’t forcing his way to MN. [/b]

Let's put it this way, if we were talking about trading for Giannis, I would throw most everything sans KAT to get Giannis.

You win Simmons isn’t Giannis lol. Another silly statement. Please explain why a team would trade a player like Giannis to MN? It’s not a realistic scenario so why compare Simmons to something that would never in 100 years ever happen?

[/b]

Simmons isn't a face of the franchise player, but he's definitely being paid as one. I feel like a lot of posters don't grasp that.

A lot of max players aren’t the face of the franchise and on max deals. How much did Milwaukee pay Jrue? Cleveland pay Love? GSW pay Draymond and Klay?

Yet Simmons is #14 in total winshares the last 4 year, which suggests he’s more than worthy of his salary.

He's not an upper tier franchise cornerstone player. He's just a disgruntled star who has a lot going against him.

That’s just your opinion and a poorly supported one at that.

[/quote]

You literally contradict yourself right here. If you believe he's an upper-tier franchise cornerstone player then why is nobody shelling out 4 picks. Either he delivers the value of being an upper-tier franchise cornerstone like Giannis or KD or he doesn't.

If Ben Simmons is so good, why did the star player and coach throw him under the bus?

Also your stat for WS seemed off so checked BBALL reference, he has #39 in win shares this season in the NBA. Don't know how you calculated it for the last 4 years.

Also as far as non-max players being on max deals. Literally every example you quoted there made sense, those were all in the hopes of adding a wheel to compliment the main stars. I'm saying he's not worth a max deal to this team. To PHI sure, but not to us, we won't rely on him to be our face of the franchise, PHI will in a secondary capacity. Edwards and KAT are the main players on this team, everyone else comes second. He could be worth a max deal to some other team to, one that needs a third wheel in order to get a chip.

Simmons is not the piece that wins this team a championship and for that fact most teams.

It’s pretty hard if not impossible to go from 23 to 1st overnight. I don’t think anyone expect Simmons to be a miracle worker. There isnt a scenario where this team can make a trade that turns us into a title team. But it’s a good first start. After that it still might take 7-8 moves and two seasons to get there, and right now we can’t even plot those hypothetical scenarios. But we can move one step in the right direction toward making us a competitive playoff team.

So if Simmons isn't going to be a miracle worker why the $35 million? If I literally can't get around this point, we already have spent 2 max deals and aren't a playoff team, why add a third one that also won't make us marginally better than a "will they or won't they" make the playoffs?

Because once you have a Giannis/Luka/Curry/Durant type player you just need to fill in the blanks. You don't have to worry about whether or not he has teammates that score more than them.

Giannis only needed injured AD, injured Kawhi, and injured Harden/Kyrie.

Luke is no closer to a title than Simmons.

Steph needed 3-4 other hall of farmers on his team and an ownership willing to go way over the lux.

Durant had to go join Steph. How many titles did okc get?

Chips are chips, you wouldn't be saying that if Minny won.

Luka on PHI would make them a Finals contender no question, if you doubt that, then no point in us talking.

Its not Stephs fault he got Draymond and Klay who he won a chip with, and then added Durant to win two more.

KD did make it to the finals and WCF a few times.

Are you seriously insinuating that to have a cornerstone franchise player isn't a major requirement?

Every championship team ever has had a superstar player who carried them. We all know their names.

Literally every single one.

Yes you need a good supporting cast, but without the main player its all not feasible. You literally just cited, an injured AD, Kawhi, Harden/Kyrie. Those are all cornerstones.

WE DON'T HAVE ONE. Yet we're trading for someone who also isn't one, so we have 3 players individually who aren't good enough to carry the team. I don't understand you.

[Krapinsky]

They are not going to trade DLo for him. I question 2 FRPs at this point, but maybe. Simmons doesn't have that value, you would be paying STAR prices, when he is worth roughly what Vucivic brought back.

Vucevic was traded at age 30. He still returned two unprotected 1sts and a recent top 7 pick.

Beasley, Naz and a 1st is right in that range.

Gordon was traded for even less, not 30.

Simmons is worth roughly what Vucivic brought back.

C'mon man! You are not even in the same area code! You're going to be downright shocked when you see the final haul that Simmons gets back.

Gordon was at the end of his contract.

[Klomp]

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