Lauri appreciation thread - Bye GarPax era

[Michael Jackson]

LOL I've been out of he loop on Bulls basketball for so long that the only 'real' division on his board were the Ben Gordon vs. Duhon vs. Hinrich vs. Deng wars. I had mentally checked out of the Bulls team itself (but not this forum, incidentally) after the Derrick Rose return from injury and finally after the 2015 exit against NJ.

I didn't even know there was a Markkanen division/controversy, LOL.

My 6-year old's burgeoning interest in basketball has brought me back (and a bunch of trades we'd been waiting to see since 2001). Carry on.

In the early times, it was Jay Vs Jamal. There, in the ancient computer texts were tellings of the largest conflagration Bulls fans have ever experienced.

I have new interest in the Bulls myself. Just because the Bulls are now acting just like all the other teams have acted, all around us forever. That prior situation created a weariness over time in me that said nothing normal can happen here. We had a million allegedly practical reasons why we were too good or bad for all that. Defenders of the regime. AK’s arrival has shown that it was mostly just a strange case of a team owner that stubbornly suspended the team in GarPax amber for a long long while. We have been caught in a weird place for a long time man. Yeah guys, we can actually just trade a guy like Lauri (and an entire team) away and start fresh overnight instead. Without acting as if we had to outsmart the entire league and be more pure in the process.

Jay vs. Jamal was like WW1. LOL. Straight from the archives. I remember there were some posters who poked fun at the fact that he started calling himself "Jay" instead of his full name.

Then it became Jamal vs. Hinrich, then Hinrich vs. BG, which in retrospect is all so exhausting, especially when it appears we have zero influence on decisionmaking (or has THAT changed too now?)

I didn't like how it seemed like Kirk always seemed to be talked about in terms of the coach's son stereotypes and seemed to be evaluated with those stereotypes in mind and completely unchecked. I'm not too sure if GarPax evaluated him in that way, but judging by the way they talked about him it seems they did.

Incidentally, in Zach Lavine's lone year at UCLA, I was incredibly annoyed at how our coach at the time Steve Alford was giving his literal son, Bryce, all these minutes over a freshman Zach. What happened to Zach in his freshman year at UCLA in favor of the literal coach's son was the very dynamic that I thought was at work whenever they played Kirk, Duhon over someone like BG: coach's son leader > talented player. But don't want to derail this thread too much. Just thought I'd share.

He became Jay because the other Jayson Williams in the NBA just got brought up on murder charges and he wanted separation from that name. I have an old pic somewhere of Jay vs Jamal it was a pic that summed up the whole drama of the situation. It was crazy. The peak was after Jay’s triple double against Jason Kidd, but that rivalry was sadly very short lived.

[Taikuri]

This interview of Lauri's agent is probably old by now and already linked, but I didn't read the entire thread, so in case it isn't here I'll link it. Here is the google Finnish version of it translated to English (there might be straight English one somewhere).

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/kymmenen-nba-seuraa-halusi-lauri-markkasen-riveihinsa-agentti-paljastaa-jattisopimuksen-taustat-mtv-urheilulle-saimme-myos-korkeampia-tarjouksia/8225258

[PaKii94]

This interview of Lauri's agent is probably old by now and already linked, but I didn't read the entire thread, so in case it isn't here I'll link it. Here is the google Finnish version of it translated to English (there might be straight English one somewhere).

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/kymmenen-nba-seuraa-halusi-lauri-markkasen-riveihinsa-agentti-paljastaa-jattisopimuksen-taustat-mtv-urheilulle-saimme-myos-korkeampia-tarjouksia/8225258

Don't think it's posted yet. Reading through it, here are nuggets that stood out to me:

Several Clubs approached us in sign and trade Intentions. I won't go into details, but at least ten clubs tried to create something like this trade.

Another source on Lauri having multiple teams interested

We also received higher but of course lower offers. However, money was not the main thing, but finding suitable trading partners for the Bulls.

It is known that Bulls braked the Brakes on several transfers that would have pleased Markka. The club's demand for a first-round booking turn was an Absolute Trader

One widespread news claimed that Markkanen had asked for too much pay for the San Antonio Spurs that interested him.
That news was just completely invented, and still from a widely respected journalist. It was weird where it really came from. The information was completely false,

I wonder how much higher the offers were... Also another source saying bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade.

[Taikuri]

This interview of Lauri's agent is probably old by now and already linked, but I didn't read the entire thread, so in case it isn't here I'll link it. Here is the google Finnish version of it translated to English (there might be straight English one somewhere).

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/kymmenen-nba-seuraa-halusi-lauri-markkasen-riveihinsa-agentti-paljastaa-jattisopimuksen-taustat-mtv-urheilulle-saimme-myos-korkeampia-tarjouksia/8225258

Don't think it's posted yet. Reading through it, here are nuggets that stood out to me:

Several Clubs approached us in sign and trade Intentions. I won't go into details, but at least ten clubs tried to create something like this trade.

Another source on Lauri having multiple teams interested

We also received higher but of course lower offers. However, money was not the main thing, but finding suitable trading partners for the Bulls.

It is known that Bulls braked the Brakes on several transfers that would have pleased Markka. The club's demand for a first-round booking turn was an Absolute Trader

One widespread news claimed that Markkanen had asked for too much pay for the San Antonio Spurs that interested him.
That news was just completely invented, and still from a widely respected journalist. It was weird where it really came from. The information was completely false,

I wonder how much higher the offers were... Also another source saying bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade.

Surprising if it's not posted here yet. It's 5 days old or so. People moved on from Lauri that fast ^^. It had some interesting details on the way the Bulls and Lauri's agents did things. To me it confirmed that AK and the new leadership are indeed bosses for not backing down from what they wanted.

Can't believe everything what that agent said but probably most of what the agent said is close to being true and the San Antonio part did sound like true. Just my feeling about it. Also perhaps the agent exaggerated on how much the Bulls would've liked to keep Lauri. I didn't really believe that part.

[Dez]

Agent pumps up client.........I am shocked.

[Pentele]

This interview of Lauri's agent is probably old by now and already linked, but I didn't read the entire thread, so in case it isn't here I'll link it. Here is the google Finnish version of it translated to English (there might be straight English one somewhere).

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/kymmenen-nba-seuraa-halusi-lauri-markkasen-riveihinsa-agentti-paljastaa-jattisopimuksen-taustat-mtv-urheilulle-saimme-myos-korkeampia-tarjouksia/8225258

Don't think it's posted yet. Reading through it, here are nuggets that stood out to me:

Several Clubs approached us in sign and trade Intentions. I won't go into details, but at least ten clubs tried to create something like this trade.

Another source on Lauri having multiple teams interested

We also received higher but of course lower offers. However, money was not the main thing, but finding suitable trading partners for the Bulls.

It is known that Bulls braked the Brakes on several transfers that would have pleased Markka. The club's demand for a first-round booking turn was an Absolute Trader

One widespread news claimed that Markkanen had asked for too much pay for the San Antonio Spurs that interested him.
That news was just completely invented, and still from a widely respected journalist. It was weird where it really came from. The information was completely false,

I wonder how much higher the offers were... Also another source saying bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade.

Surprising if it's not posted here yet. It's 5 days old or so. People moved on from Lauri that fast ^^. It had some interesting details on the way the Bulls and Lauri's agents did things. To me it confirmed that AK and the new leadership are indeed bosses for not backing down from what they wanted.

Can't believe everything what that agent said but probably most of what the agent said is close to being true and the San Antonio part did sound like true. Just my feeling about it. Also perhaps the agent exaggerated on how much the Bulls would've liked to keep Lauri. I didn't really believe that part.

I would not put much stock on what agents say about the value of their clients. That being said, the San Antonio part does appear to be accurate as the original story was practically debunked by Shams as well. After that, nobody has come forward with an account of events that would contradict Shams's. Lauri's final haul also very much goes against the narrative that was conjured back then that he is simply asking a way too much (Shams mentioned that the offers were around 15m). But a key part of the narrative did come from a respectable source so I do not really blame people buying it.

[Taikuri]

Finnish sport site quoted a rumor from Marc Stein about Lauri that Lauri could be traded to Philadelphia. They are saying that Lauri's deal with Cleveland is team friendly deal that might be interesting for Philly.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-12091400?origin%3Drss

[Dez]

Finnish sport site quoted a rumor from Marc Stein about Lauri that Lauri could be traded to Philadelphia. They are saying that Lauri's deal with Cleveland is team friendly deal that might be interesting for Philly.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-12091400?origin%3Drss

Except it's not a team friendly deal.

[dougthonus]

I wonder how much higher the offers were... Also another source saying bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade.

If the Bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade, I'm really curious what they pulled him out for. Did they replace him with Thad? The extra pick?

Would be sort of interesting if they valued the 2022 Blazers pick over their 2025 pick. The Blazers pick might actually be more valuable in some respects (time value, projects as just outside of lottery) but the limitations that the 2025 pick put on you for future transactions are very stringent. I would rather have our 2025 pick back than this Blazers choice to have the flexibility to offer a 2024, 2026, 2028 and pick swap package in 2 years after the 2023 draft.

[Michael Jackson]

I wonder how much higher the offers were... Also another source saying bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade.

If the Bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade, I'm really curious what they pulled him out for. Did they replace him with Thad? The extra pick?

Would be sort of interesting if they valued the 2022 Blazers pick over their 2025 pick. The Blazers pick might actually be more valuable in some respects (time value, projects as just outside of lottery) but the limitations that the 2025 pick put on you for future transactions are very stringent. I would rather have our 2025 pick back than this Blazers choice to have the flexibility to offer a 2024, 2026, 2028 and pick swap package in 2 years after the 2023 draft.

It makes sense if he is planning on moving that pick immediately I guess, since he wasn’t able to trade this years pick he has one or at least the rights to one to move now? Long term flexibility it doesn’t make sense but maybe there is something at the store he wants to buy

[Michael Jackson]

Finnish sport site quoted a rumor from Marc Stein about Lauri that Lauri could be traded to Philadelphia. They are saying that Lauri's deal with Cleveland is team friendly deal that might be interesting for Philly.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-12091400?origin%3Drss

Except it's not a team friendly deal.

For the money they are paying Simmons and Harris, Lauri is a friendly deal. It’s not an amazing deal but it is much better than Harris imho even though Harris is the better player. Lauri is not unmovable at that money.

[FriedRise]

Read on Twitter

[MGB8]

Read on Twitter

Rude awakening in 5, 4, 3, 2….

(Plus still smacks of a player blaming other folks for his lack of progress and success as opposed to owning their actions/inactions)

[Michael Jackson]

Read on Twitter

Rude awakening in 5, 4, 3, 2….

(Plus still smacks of a player blaming other folks for his lack of progress and success as opposed to owning their actions/inactions)

I think most everything from the GAR era had a poison attitude. You have a few exceptions, like Zach, but the enviroment was not the greatest for Lauri to give him his due. That being said, AK has built a new thing here, he assessed everything last season and saw what he wanted to keep and what he wanted to move on from. If AK thought Lauri was just a product of a bad system, he could easily have kept him around. I think he made his decision last year after Lauri turned down the extension, he moved on. He isn't want him here after that and that is fine by me. Lauri still might benefit from the move too, he actually looked good when he was just able to be Lauri when he came into the league, and why can't he on Cleveland. They surely don't seem to have an identity yet and it is similar to the Gar Bulls when the option was jut throwing it against the wall and seeing with sticks. I think he fits that situation best. he has no real pressure there and can use play his game. Not saying that makes him a better player, but I expect him to look better in that role, if that makes any sense (likely it doesn't lol)

[kodo]

Read on Twitter

Rude awakening in 5, 4, 3, 2….

(Plus still smacks of a player blaming other folks for his lack of progress and success as opposed to owning their actions/inactions)

Thad Young had his best statistical season in 13 years of his NBA career under Billy and got a ton of touches as a PF. For Lauri to say that the Bulls coaching staff won't give a PF offensive creativity or flexibility is comical. The reality is that Lauri just wasn't as good as Thad.

And he wasn't as good as Theis on defense. So i guess Billy is the bad guy for playing the two better PFs ahead of him. Too bad he felt that way, I thought Lauri got a ton of opportunities here in his first 2 years.

[Dez]

Finnish sport site quoted a rumor from Marc Stein about Lauri that Lauri could be traded to Philadelphia. They are saying that Lauri's deal with Cleveland is team friendly deal that might be interesting for Philly.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-12091400?origin%3Drss

Except it's not a team friendly deal.

For the money they are paying Simmons and Harris, Lauri is a friendly deal. It’s not an amazing deal but it is much better than Harris imho even though Harris is the better player. Lauri is not unmovable at that money.

Simmons is an All Star and All NBA caliber player and Harris while a big contract is an excellent player with a proven track record of sustained quality play.

Lauri has like 2 months over 4 years plus injuries, not to mention he's one dimensional.

[coldfish]

I wonder how much higher the offers were... Also another source saying bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade.

If the Bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade, I'm really curious what they pulled him out for. Did they replace him with Thad? The extra pick?

Would be sort of interesting if they valued the 2022 Blazers pick over their 2025 pick. The Blazers pick might actually be more valuable in some respects (time value, projects as just outside of lottery) but the limitations that the 2025 pick put on you for future transactions are very stringent. I would rather have our 2025 pick back than this Blazers choice to have the flexibility to offer a 2024, 2026, 2028 and pick swap package in 2 years after the 2023 draft.

I thought I read that the Bulls wanted Aminu off the books and the Derozan trade offered that opportunity.

When you look at the Bulls monetary outlays for this season, its well spent money. Only really Coby sticks out as a misuse of funds. I think this was a big part of their plan. Use a pick to dump salary and then get a pick and no salary for Lauri.

[GoBlue72391]

Read on Twitter

Rude awakening in 5, 4, 3, 2….

(Plus still smacks of a player blaming other folks for his lack of progress and success as opposed to owning their actions/inactions)

Thad Young had his best statistical season in 13 years of his NBA career under Billy and got a ton of touches as a PF. For Lauri to say that the Bulls coaching staff won't give a PF offensive creativity or flexibility is comical. The reality is that Lauri just wasn't as good as Thad.

And he wasn't as good as Theis on defense. So i guess Billy is the bad guy for playing the two better PFs ahead of him. Too bad he felt that way, I thought Lauri got a ton of opportunities here in his first 2 years.

Thad had most of his success with us last season as a small ball C playing that hub role before we traded for Vuch. When we played him at PF he looked pretty terrible since he's not a shooter and the responsibilities of our PF are similar to the responsibilities of our SF.

Remember how terrible he looked under Boylen when he was used as a floor spacer? Players play better when they're utilized properly, who would have thunk it?

Also, I don't see where Lauri said any of that stuff about "Billy didn't let me be creative or flexible, Billy is bad for playing two other PFs ahead of me." Seems like you took his quote and just projected that onto what he said.

It's absolutely true that his role under Billy was very rigid; within the offense, he was a shooter who got spot-up and off-screen shooting opportunities with some limited cutting action on the designed plays. That's not to say Billy greatly misutilized him or anything, as he did manage to get career-best efficiency out of the way he used him, but there's an argument that Lauri could have had a higher scoring output on slightly-to-moderately less efficiency had we chose to go that route.

[coldfish]

Rude awakening in 5, 4, 3, 2….

(Plus still smacks of a player blaming other folks for his lack of progress and success as opposed to owning their actions/inactions)

Thad Young had his best statistical season in 13 years of his NBA career under Billy and got a ton of touches as a PF. For Lauri to say that the Bulls coaching staff won't give a PF offensive creativity or flexibility is comical. The reality is that Lauri just wasn't as good as Thad.

And he wasn't as good as Theis on defense. So i guess Billy is the bad guy for playing the two better PFs ahead of him. Too bad he felt that way, I thought Lauri got a ton of opportunities here in his first 2 years.

Thad had most of his success with us last season as a small ball C playing that hub role before we traded for Vuch. When we played him at PF he looked pretty terrible since he's not a shooter and the responsibilities of our PF are similar to the responsibilities of our SF.

Remember how terrible he looked under Boylen when he was used as a floor spacer? Players play better when they're utilized properly, who would have thunk it?

Also, I don't see where Lauri said any of that stuff about "Billy didn't let me be creative or flexible, Billy is bad for playing two other PFs ahead of me." Seems like you took his quote and just projected that onto what he said.

It's absolutely true that his role under Billy was very rigid; within the offense, he was a shooter who got spot-up and off-screen shooting opportunities with some limited cutting action on the designed plays. That's not to say Billy greatly misutilized him or anything, as he did manage to get career-best efficiency out of the way he used him, but there's an argument that Lauri could have had a higher scoring output on slightly-to-moderately less efficiency had we chose to go that route.

The Bulls for the most part ran a full motion offense with the center playing a hub role, doing virtually all of the pick and roll and being responsible for swing passes. The 4 perimeter players have a ton of freedom, with the only rule being where they set up off ball. The guards set up at the two elbows behind the arc and the two forwards in the corners. They can frequently switch high low.

If you go back and look at some games for Otto early on, he showed what the forwards were allowed to do. They have the ability to move around a ton, call for picks, etc. Pat was passive most of the year in the same role but a few times late he decided to be more aggressive and had some good games. I guarantee that the team didn't change the offense game to game nor did they carve out some special limited role for Lauri.

Lauri had that opportunity all year. He also got two other opportunities:
- In the middle of the year, the team tried him at center for a hot minute (like 4 games). Lauri just always defaulted to pick and pop, never passing and rarely rolling. The team gave up on it quickly.
- For the first 1/3 of the year, the team ran floppy for Lauri. It got him some good looks but he never passed out of it and teams started sitting on the play and BD went away from it.

Overall, I kind of think that Lauri is a low IQ player on both sides of the court. He had far more options than some people present and just didn't take them. When given the opportunity to play a bigger role, his lack of court awareness, ball handling and passing really makes it difficult.

[MGB8]

I wonder how much higher the offers were... Also another source saying bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade.

If the Bulls pulled him out of the Spurs trade, I'm really curious what they pulled him out for. Did they replace him with Thad? The extra pick?

Would be sort of interesting if they valued the 2022 Blazers pick over their 2025 pick. The Blazers pick might actually be more valuable in some respects (time value, projects as just outside of lottery) but the limitations that the 2025 pick put on you for future transactions are very stringent. I would rather have our 2025 pick back than this Blazers choice to have the flexibility to offer a 2024, 2026, 2028 and pick swap package in 2 years after the 2023 draft.

I thought I read that the Bulls wanted Aminu off the books and the Derozan trade offered that opportunity.

When you look at the Bulls monetary outlays for this season, its well spent money. Only really Coby sticks out as a misuse of funds. I think this was a big part of their plan. Use a pick to dump salary and then get a pick and no salary for Lauri.

Aminu and DJJrs salaries offset, so it’s not quite no salary, for this season - but it’s effectively no increase and a pick swap. OTOH, Aminu was expiring, like Jones Jr.