Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
Sheesh the results are a bit shocking. I am/was always of the POV that his jersey was guaranteed once his career wrapped up. Sure he ultimately didn't lead us to a chip but he was a major catalyst in his final 5 playoff seasons, highlighted by our first ECF birth in 2016. Yes Lowry was the more important piece, but DeMar played just as big of a role in this era changing the status of the franchise from laughing stock to playoff contenders. He also established a high enough value in the league that all it took was him Poeltl and a FRP to pry Kawhi and Danny away from the Spurs leading us to our chip.
At the end of the day, the man put in 9 full seasons(4x All Stars Nods & 2x All-NBA) with the team and his name is scattered all over the record books with us:
1st (or tied) in: Games, Minutes, Seasons, Points, FG, FGA, FT, FTA, FT/game, Consecutive 30+ pts, Player of the Week & Months,
3rd in AST, STL
6th in REB
etc.
At the end of the day, the man put in 9 full seasons(4x All Stars Nods & 2x All-NBA) with the team and his name is scattered all over the record books with us:
1st (or tied) in: Games, Minutes, Seasons, Points, FG, FGA, FT, FTA, FT/game, Consecutive 30+ pts, Player of the Week & Months,
3rd in AST, STL
6th in REB
etc.
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
refshateRaps wrote:We are seriously diluting jersey retiring if this is the bar
Diluting? How many jerseys have the Raptors actually retired in 26 years of existence?
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
BryceMaxJames wrote:Nope, he didn't get the job done. If we are gonna retire Demar, we gotta retire Kawhi as well.
Why not? They both deserve it. Not because of what anyone like LeBron says but because they just do.
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
- ThatClockWork
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
ehh if Derozan's jersey is being retired, Vince's should be first.
Right now Lowry is the only one going up in the rafters.
Right now Lowry is the only one going up in the rafters.
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
Danny1616 wrote:rapstarter wrote:Danny1616 wrote:
Huh?
Derozan was the scoring leader for the greatest period in franchise history when we were a perennial 50+ win team. He was a part of multiple deep playoff runs although we could not get over the hump. Derozan holds multiple franchise records and played the longest with the franchise out of any player.
Let's look at teams that retired their stars even though they couldn't win a chip:
Atlanta - retired Wilkins, Maravich, Mutombo.
Nets - retired Petrovic, Kidd.
Cavaliers - retired Ilgauskus, Nance, Price, Thurmond, Daughtery
Mavericks - retired Blackman, Davis, Harper
Nuggets - retired English, Lever, Mutombo
Warriors - retired Mullin, Attles, Barry, Thurmond
Rockets - retired Yao
Pacers - retired Miller
Heat - retired Hardaway
Knicks - retired Ewing
Thunder/Seattle - retired Collison, Haywood
Sixers - retired Iverson, Cheeks, Barkley
Suns - retired Nash, Marjerle, Barkley, Johnson
Kings - retired Vlade, Webber, Peja, Richmond
Jazz - retired Malone, Stockton, Hornacek, Dantley
Sure, some of them are bad selections, but most of these are bonafide HOFers who were actually carrying their franchises which is the opposite of what DeMar did for us. I'm not faulting him for not winning the championship (although that would have greatly helped). He was actually carried by his team in the playoffs, and he was very often the reason we barely advanced or got humiliated. What was DeMar's defining moment for us? The second dunk in the Slam Dunk contest? Getting traded for Kawhi? Speaking of LeBron, it would make more sense if we retired his jersey like Miami did for MJ.
Again, never said DeMar would be among the very worst players to get their jersey retired. He makes more sense than Tony Allen did. I just happen to think the bar has to be higher, and just because the likes of Tony Allen got their jerseys retired, we should be lowering our bar.
More than half of the players listed have not made the hall of fame.
Retired jerseys are based on production for a single franchise. After Lowry, Derozan was the most productive player to wear a Raptor jersey over a long period. He holds multiple franchise records, and was a key cog in our 50+ win teams, and was part of our ECF finals run in 2016. Those aren't meaningless accomplishments.
Most memorable moment? Probably his 52 point franchise record game against the Bucks and his big game against Detroit in 2018 on national TV with that huge game closing dunk.
While had his playoff disappointments, can't forget some of his more memorable playoff games
Taking out Attles who had spent more than 17 years at the Warriors as both a player and a championship-winning coach when his jersey was retired, I am counting 25 HOFers out of 40 (though I could be 1 or 2 off here). And it's really two teams with lower bars, Mavs and Cavs, that are skewing the numbers.
There's no set criteria for jersey retirements, so I personally don't agree that DeMar being the most or 2nd most productive player alone warrants him one. You also mention he was part of our ECF run in 2016, but if you remember, it was a miracle that we even made it to the ECF with how horrible he was. We were pushed to Game 7 as the favorites in both series, and he scored 17.9 ppg on 19.7 fga/g against the Pacers, and 22.1 ppg on 21.7 fga/g against Miami.
His regular season records and moments were fine, but IMO his playoffs performances were just too bad. He actually averaged below 50% in TS% over 51 playoffs games here. Considering he was also a poor defender, I'd say his playoffs were a bit beyond "disappointment" and more realistically at the level where you would seriously have to question his legacy. I'd be more enthusiastic about the potential jersey retirement if he was even mediocre during the playoffs, but unfortunately that wasn't the case. I hate to be all "playoffs or nothing", but if you were consistently a liability in the most important moments, the likelihood is you are not going to be celebrated as much.
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
- nizaam
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
Ibaka should get his jersey retired before kawhi. Cant believe people want to retire a jersey for a guy who played 1 season, almost did not report then left after winning a championship (and he knew already he let it slip in many interviews). Retiring someones jersey is a 2 way street and they should actually respect the franchise and fans to get honoured back. No Vince, CB4 or Kawhi. Derozan and Lowry built We The North, Serge a close 3rd then FVV and Siakam are still writing their stories. No need to give it to anyone who did not care about Raptors Basketball.
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
- ontnut
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
Just because other teams have retired role players or fan favourites doesn't mean we HAVE to as well.
I can understand the rationale behind wanting to retire #10, but for me, he's on the fence based on my personal criteria.
As I mentioned in a previous post, because of MLSE's recent retirements of guys like Wendel Clark, one would assume they would probably lean towards retiring #10 too after his career is done. But I wouldn't, just like I wouldn't have retired Clark's #17.
I can understand the rationale behind wanting to retire #10, but for me, he's on the fence based on my personal criteria.
As I mentioned in a previous post, because of MLSE's recent retirements of guys like Wendel Clark, one would assume they would probably lean towards retiring #10 too after his career is done. But I wouldn't, just like I wouldn't have retired Clark's #17.
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
- Mattd97
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
This is silly. Just do a ring of honour. The jays have had way more success for way longer and have only retired 2 guys -- one of which is coming down. You can make levels of honour here, and he's clearly on the second rung
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
This would be my criteria to get your jersey retired:
1. HOF calibre player
2. Long and productive career with franchise
3. Team success
With Lowry, you get all 3, which makes him an automatic. With the other guys mentioned, you might only get 1 or 2 of these, which makes them borderline candidates.
As others have mentioned, I like tiers.
1st tier: number retired (Lowry)
2nd tier: ring of honor (Kawhi, Bosh, DeMar, Vince)
3rd tier: in-game ceremony (Gasol, Ibaka, Norm, Green)
1. HOF calibre player
2. Long and productive career with franchise
3. Team success
With Lowry, you get all 3, which makes him an automatic. With the other guys mentioned, you might only get 1 or 2 of these, which makes them borderline candidates.
As others have mentioned, I like tiers.
1st tier: number retired (Lowry)
2nd tier: ring of honor (Kawhi, Bosh, DeMar, Vince)
3rd tier: in-game ceremony (Gasol, Ibaka, Norm, Green)
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
bboyskinnylegs wrote:Kyle is the only one that deserves to get his jersey retired imo. Next on the list is Kawhi. No one else as of yet. If we're going to take championships out of the equation, it cheapens everything and we're back to celebrating Atlantic Division banners again. There are other ways to recognize former Raptor greats that don't include retiring jerseys.
The Jays "recognized" a lot of people from their title runs. But it wasn't Jack Morris or David Cone. Rentals to get over the hump do not get banners or jerseys retired. I have said it before they should hoist Lowry's #7 Raps and Nash's Team Canada #7. Then do some fancy murals for DeMar and Kawhi. Leave it at that.
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
Then retire number 15.
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
nizaam wrote:Ibaka should get his jersey retired before kawhi. Cant believe people want to retire a jersey for a guy who played 1 season, almost did not report then left after winning a championship (and he knew already he let it slip in many interviews). Retiring someones jersey is a 2 way street and they should actually respect the franchise and fans to get honoured back. No Vince, CB4 or Kawhi. Derozan and Lowry built We The North, Serge a close 3rd then FVV and Siakam are still writing their stories. No need to give it to anyone who did not care about Raptors Basketball.
Lol
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
You don't have to be a superstar to get your jersey retired... I don't know how that myth started
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
#10 will be retired without a doubt, I don't think the raps brass intends on letting anyone else wear that number. The voices clamoring for it not to be retired will be drowned once the time is right. No one will care for loud minority opinions when its time to make that decision.
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
No thanks. Demar deserves to be celebrated in some way, but for me, jersey retirements should be reserved for a calibre of player beyond Derozan's purview.
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
Yes they should, once both he and Lowry are both retired as good friends retire them together.It's fitting.
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
Will: Who cares what Lebron thinks?
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
#15 first.
8 time allstar
Seven years raptors
Holds many raptor records including highest playoffs scoring average
Superstar.
Would own all Raptors records were it not for incompetent raptors management during his era.
Promoted basketball in toronto and Canada.
Future HOF.
8 time allstar
Seven years raptors
Holds many raptor records including highest playoffs scoring average
Superstar.
Would own all Raptors records were it not for incompetent raptors management during his era.
Promoted basketball in toronto and Canada.
Future HOF.
Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
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Re: Lebron: Raps should retire Derozan’s jersey
Reeko wrote:Yes, absolutely. For some odd reason there are posters here who think that we would somehow be lowering the bar if we retired DeMar's number, we wouldn't be. Just take a look at some of the players who have had their jerseys retired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_retired_numbers
So, how many of these retired numbers got out of the second playoff round? Most of them, so Demar would be comparable to Dominique Wilkins who spent 12 years with the Hawks and his best playoff run was a 7-game exit in 1988. Demar's case is kinda on par with Dominique, but Dominique feels like a long service award.
Toronto hasn't handed out any retired numbers so far, but Masai is committed to retiring Lowry's number. I think Masai likes the rarity and will reward champions with the honour.
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships." -- Michael Jordan