nate33 wrote:dckingsfan wrote:
There are several parts to vaccinating kids.
1) Overall herd immunity with the population. Kids represent a significant portion of the population. It is about getting everyone vaccinated.
No. It's about saving lives. Vaccination is a component, but not necessarily for everyone.2) Kids get and spread Covid - this is important especially in schools. Note that a Significant number of schools have closed - because of staffing issues (not just kids getting Covid).
Kids spread Covid FAR less effectively than adults. We've known this for over a year when the studies first came out of Denmark.3) Our pediatric healthcare system is fragile. A surge in Covid + RSV has overwhelmed some of the children's hospitals - specifically in communities where vaccination rates are low.
Fair point. I'm definitely on board with the "flatten the curve" concept. Taking steps to slow the spread a times when hospitals are overwhelmed makes total sense.4) Myocarditis is real with the vaccine, there have been 1,047 reports total for those under 30. Let there be no doubt that more under 30s died of Covid than the reported myocarditis side effects.
Clever how you shifted it to under 30. What are the stats for under 19?
We know deaths in that cohort are less than 500 out of 80 million, or about 6 per million (with an estimated 27 million infected). And those are mostly with comorbidities. Healthy kids have a death rate around 1 per million. Also, that 1047 number is old, from an article on July 1st. We hadn't been vaccinating kids for that long at that point. That same article says that there have been 76 myocarditis cases per million kids ages 6-17.5) Kids long haulers is real. Studies in the US had it pegged between 5-10%. A new study out of England puts the rate between 2-14%. Take the lowest number and that dwarfs myocarditis.
Definitely take the lowest number. Long-haulers are wildly overrated. If you can't smell for 5 weeks, you are considered a long-hauler. A recent study in UK shows that the long-hauler phenomenon isn't nearly as bad as initially expected. Less than 2% had symptoms after 8 weeks:
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/long-covid-uncommon-in-children 6) Lastly, across the board, pediatricians unequivocally believe that the benefits of vaccination far, far, far outweigh any risks - I think that is a quote from the HHS chief scientific officer for the COVID-19.
Of course that's what they believe. They are following the lead of the CDC who have been consistently dismissive of any narrative that puts into question mass vaccination. They don't even acknowledge natural immunity, which 100 million Americans have. It's deception like this that has made the public more suspicious and vaccine-hesitant. It's a shame because certainly everyone older than 50 and those with comorbidities should absolutely get vaccinated.
1) Of course it is - herd immunity allows us to save lives, open up the economy faster and reduce long haulers - in adults and children.
2) It turns out that kids spread Covid just as efficiently as adults especially with Delta because the viral loads are so much larger. Some say that they are actually more effective at spreading Covid now. Remember, with a vaccine you can still spread Covid but for a much shorter time span essentially dropping the R value.
4) I shifted to under 30 because those are the statistics that are reported. We also know that nearly all of the myocarditis events self resolve without hospitalization for those under 18. The point? Kids getting vaccines aren't dying of the vaccine and it allows us to get to herd immunity. And the risk of developing myocarditis was significantly higher for those youngsters who have contracted Covid-19 compared to those who have been vaccinated.
5) Let's take the lowest number - 2% is huge compared to vaccine issues. Even 1% drives us to the "get the damn vaccine".
6) No, pediatricians in general aren't blindly following the CDC. There is no, trust me you can't trust your pediatrician - that is nonsense and that is the real deception. We have folks saying, trust me, you can't trust your doctor - take this Ivermectin - stupid and deceptive.
And let's get to natural immunity - it really hasn't helped much in this latest surge, especially for kids. You want to know what the cat's ass is? Infection + vaccination. Everyone over 12 should get vaccinated for the good of the kids, the pediatric healthcare system and the entire community.
One thing - we shouldn't mandate them until they are approved.