Masai Ujiri is Overrated

Post #41 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:48 pm

There’s an incomplete grade on the offseason right now because they still have to sort some things out, but Masai is not overrated. The guy is a wizard from his ID and development of deep prospects in contributors to the Kawhi deal, etc.

DroseReturnChi · Post #42 » by **DroseReturnChi** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:55 pm

basically, masai has no intention contending. expect pascal and even fvv to leave he will build around og and barnes and tank couple of yrs to get 4 all stars under 25 and repeat kawhi type move to repeat. tanking when you should be bad is not a new idea but many gms will not do it. but masai has secured job for life and his remark of not a team of now he has no reason to hurry.
whether he will choose the warriors route will be interesting getting high picks while resting his champion squad bc his prospects are all studs unlike wiseman.

mademan · Post #43 » by **mademan** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:07 pm

Optms wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Kyle Lowry was leaving Toronto anyways, this trade just helped him go to the team he wanted.

For the Draft pick, neither player has played yet. Assuming someone who is well accomplished is “overrated” because you disagree with a pick they made seems pretty reactionary.

Why didn't he retire as a Raptor? And why trade him for a player who refuses to be there? That seems like total a massive front office blunder. Especially considering how much Lowry did for that team. Not sure how else to say it.

Suggs was projected to go in the top 4. He was the best player available in all mocks and among scouts. By all accounts, Suggs is unanimously the better player coming in and he would have fitted a position of need with Lowry gone. Just makes very little sense to take a projected worse player at the foward spot. They already have OG, Achiuwa and Siakam. How many fowards do they need?

When's the last time the top 4 picks have been the 4 best players? Masai drafted who he thought would be the best player long term; he might be right or he might be wrong but it's hilarious to criticize him for it before it plays out. Legit makes no sense

And the Lowry trade was for Precious. Lowry wanted to go to Miami and Raps got a decent prospect and a rotation player back. Maybe they coulda got more at the deadline, maybe they couldnt have. We dont know what the offers were, but Lowry was never gonna stay; he wants to contend and the Raps arent contending right now.

lobosloboslobos · Post #44 » by **lobosloboslobos** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:27 pm

Other things that make Masai the best GM

- he is the first person who ever built a championship team without a single lottery pick
- he built a championship team in a city that was formerly an NBA laughing stock
- he turned the Toronto Raptors into a globally relevant brand and Canada's most popular sports team among younger people (ex. made Drake the teams' global ambassador)
- he has been more effective at developing players than any other GM in the league, both by finding unwanted undrafted players and by creating a championship G-League team that directly fed his championship NBA team when many teams didn't even have G-League teams
- he is himself a global ambassador for basketball whose credibility as a trustworthy leader (friends with Obama etc.) around the world directly helps the franchise with agents, scouts, prospective coaches and other staff and media
- he has enormous local credibility with local business, arts, culture, media and education sectors that benefits the team in all kinds of ways including generating significant profitability and fan loyalty (2 million people at our championship (parade)
- his commitment to treating his players well ie, 'load-managing' Kawhi or sending Lowry to Miami is in no way unnoticed by other players around the league
- he is as absolutely utterly determined to win as he is committed to behaving ethically

edit: oh and then there's this. does your GM have balls like this?

Watch on YouTube

Jadoogar · Post #45 » by **Jadoogar** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:43 pm

The only negative about the lowry trade was not doing the trade at the deadline. We could have declined Dragic's team option and saved cap room. The actual trade and players involved was a win for the Raptors.

Post #46 » by **Duffman100** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:44 pm

LAL1947 wrote:Yet it looked like GSW would win easily even without KD. When Klay went down, that is when the tide turned.

Huh? Raps were up 3-2 in the series and it was 4 point game. Would win easily?

This thread is just an embarrassment.

nikster · Post #47 » by **nikster** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:50 pm

Optms wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Kyle Lowry was leaving Toronto anyways, this trade just helped him go to the team he wanted.

For the Draft pick, neither player has played yet. Assuming someone who is well accomplished is “overrated” because you disagree with a pick they made seems pretty reactionary.

Why didn't he retire as a Raptor? And why trade him for a player who refuses to be there? That seems like total a massive front office blunder. Especially considering how much Lowry did for that team. Not sure how else to say it.

Suggs was projected to go in the top 4. He was the best player available in all mocks and among scouts. By all accounts, Suggs is unanimously the better player coming in and he would have fitted a position of need with Lowry gone. Just makes very little sense to take a projected worse player at the foward spot. They already have OG, Achiuwa and Siakam. How many fowards do they need?

Because Lowry wanted to compete for a ring. Raps are not in that position right now. He plans on signing a contract with the raps to officialy retire as a Raptor even if he doesnt play again. Achiuwa was the prize of the lowry trade, Dragic is either being moved for some small assets or playing the season as a back up PG (he is not refusing to play).

So good GMs only draft based on projections right? When you have a top pick you select for who you think will be the best player. Achiuwa is a center not a forward. Regardless, the fit is fine, no reason OG/Siakam/Barnes cant play together

Post #48 » by **Duffman100** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:51 pm

Raptors win the title.
Following year they go to the 7th game of the 2nd round.
They have a down year while playing 100% road games.

They now have a young core of,
OG (24), Scottie Barnes (20), Trent (22) with Precious and Flynn while still retaining FVV, Siakam, Boucher.

3 years removed from winning the title, 2 years removed from contender, and they have a solid young core and all of their draft picks.

They won 48+ games 7 straight seasons under his reign, being one of the most consistent teams of the 2010s, culminating in a title. All without a lottery pick on the roster.

How is Masai overrated?

nikster · Post #49 » by **nikster** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:51 pm

LAL1947 wrote:
HEAT33 wrote:Did anyone think the raptors would even win a ring? I say no so winning a ring might be the raptors best achievement in the next 40 years. And guess who is behind that?

Pop and Kawhi.

Not like there wasnt 28 other teams who could have tried to put together a better package based on what the Spurs wanted

PicPock · Post #50 » by **PicPock** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:58 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:Yet it looked like GSW would win easily even without KD. When Klay went down, that is when the tide turned.

Huh? Raps were up 3-2 in the series and it was 4 point game. Would win easily?

This thread is just an embarrassment.

Don't bother replying to espn guys mate.
Raptors was a great team.

Pointgod · Post #51 » by **Pointgod** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:03 pm

Optms wrote:They move Lowry for Dragic who refuses to play for them. They then decide to not draft the BPA and elite prospect guard, Jalen Suggs. Who should have been the face of the PG spot moving foward. This team seems like it has no real direction given the past 2 years worth of transactions. Kawhi left, Marc, Ibaka, Powell, Lowry. Who is next? Siakam?

They have a good scouting team so I give them the benefit of the doubt for now but if Suggs goes on blow up in Orlando, and Barnes becomes just another role player or he busts, its going to haunt this team for years.

A lot of Raptor fans are going to come in and defend the hell out of him and I completely understand. I'm just stating that from the outside looking in, it doesn't look good. And on a side note - I like Barnes. I also like Kuminga, Sengun and Moody too. But not over Suggs. That selection shouldn't have been complicated to make.

This is dumb. How is Masai overrated? He literally took a losing team and turned them into a perennial playoff team which eventually won Toronto a championship. He’s also drafted well with low first round picks, Bruno Coblocalo not with standing.

I think he miscalculated the Lowry situation by not trading him at the deadline and I believe Suggs over Barnes will come back to haunt him, but winning a championship gives a GM a long of leeway as far as decision making. It’s not until he goes into his Danny Ainge phase whether or not we’ve been overrating him.

Fable · Post #52 » by **Fable** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:06 pm

Masai Ujiri went all in with Kawhi and Marc Gasol trades and got lucky when Durant and Klay both got injured. The Bucks GM went all in with Jrue Holiday trade and got lucky when Harden and Kyrie both got injured, but nobody calls him a genius like they do with Masai.
By the same logic they're both geniuses with small market teams?

ItsDanger · Post #53 » by **ItsDanger** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:10 pm

I've lost respect for many people's basketball opinions during this past draft. Anyone who isn't blind could see Barnes has elite upside after watching FSU games. That was my impression after watching a full game. However, his offense will take time and there is a clear risk that it may just be average ultimately. His defense has elite potential very soon though.

Suggs is an overall better player right now. The typical higher floor option. But what is his upside? I'd say its lower than Barnes and no one could convince me otherwise. I personally favoured Suggs or trading down because Raps will have a roster problem in 22/23 if not sooner. Barnes will need more minutes by year 2 and he won't get it unless you play him at the 5 a lot.

Post #54 » by **Duffman100** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:12 pm

ItsDanger wrote:I've lost respect for many people's basketball opinions during this past draft. Anyone who isn't blind could see Barnes has elite upside after watching FSU games. That was my impression after watching a full game. However, his offense will take time and there is a clear risk that it may just be average ultimately. His defense has elite potential very soon though.

Suggs is an overall better player right now. The typical higher floor option. But what is his upside? I'd say its lower than Barnes and no one could convince me otherwise. I personally favoured Suggs or trading down because Raps will have a roster problem in 22/23 if not sooner. Barnes will need more minutes by year 2 and he won't get it unless you play him at the 5 a lot.

I think the key is nobody knows. You can blast a GM for a draft pick when nobody has played a game yet. That's ridiculous.

I wanted Suggs, but like you said, I see the upside in Barnes. Considering Masai has drafted Siakam, OG, Delon Wright, Jakob Poeltl, Norm Powell etc etc ... you'd think he'd garner some respect.

gp2015 · Post #55 » by **gp2015** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Optms wrote:
Domejandro wrote:Kyle Lowry was leaving Toronto anyways, this trade just helped him go to the team he wanted.

For the Draft pick, neither player has played yet. Assuming someone who is well accomplished is “overrated” because you disagree with a pick they made seems pretty reactionary.

Why didn't he retire as a Raptor? And why trade him for a player who refuses to be there? That seems like total a massive front office blunder. Especially considering how much Lowry did for that team. Not sure how else to say it.

Suggs was projected to go in the top 4. He was the best player available in all mocks and among scouts. By all accounts, Suggs is unanimously the better player coming in and he would have fitted a position of need with Lowry gone. Just makes very little sense to take a projected worse player at the foward spot. They already have OG, Achiuwa and Siakam. How many fowards do they need?

If you had done your research before making this useless post, you would have known that Lowry wanted to go to Miami to play for another championship since Masai told him that we are going into another direction and will be developing our young guys. Masai tried to fulfill his request and get a useful piece back in Precious.

Dragic is a throw in to make salaries match. Toronto is not his preferred destination but he never refused to play here. If he isn't traded by the start of the season, he'll be playing.

“I love basketball, I love to play and I’m going to give 100 per cent wherever I play. Right now I’m [with] Toronto and that’s my main thing to think about.”

It's obvious that you know nothing about the Raptors so please stop pretending that you do.

Zombiesonics · Post #56 » by **Zombiesonics** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:24 pm

Take a look at his win % and draft hits, the guy is an incredible gm.

Vampirate · Post #57 » by **Vampirate** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:30 pm

Masai is one of the best executives in the league.

Yeah, he isn't perfect but who is.

Every exec has a down year or makes mistakes.

And pretty much every executive has been called overrated by this point.

CoachD · Post #58 » by **CoachD** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:32 pm

CIN-C-STAR wrote:Should have moved Lowry at the trade deadline last season and he would have gotten a lot more for him.
Holding onto him when you are going into tank mode anyway never made sense to me. I think he let his pride get in the way of a better deal.
That said, he's still a good GM, though I agree he's probably overrated given the saint-like reverence many fans seem to have for him.

This has already been covered ... Lowry asked to not be traded because he wanted to finish the year with his guys.

If the Raptors found a no brainer deal, I'm sure they would have taken it ... but for an adequate return, they figured give Lowry the closure he wants and get something in the summer. Which they did.

I don't understand how people outside Toronto STILL think Masai is the GM.

He isn't.

He hasn't been the GM for 5 years!! There have been 2 others in that role since he moved to President.

Referring to him as the GM does 2 things. Disrespect their actual GM Bobby Webster, and identifies that you don't actually know anything about Toronto or Masai Ujiri.

Masai is the best executive in the NBA ... not just fot his on court results but what he's done to grow the game overseas and his philanthropic endeavors as well.

If he was running the Knicks or Heat or Lakers... people would take about him as if he was an actual super hero

gp2015 · Post #59 » by **gp2015** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:40 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:Yet it looked like GSW would win easily even without KD. When Klay went down, that is when the tide turned.

Huh? Raps were up 3-2 in the series and it was 4 point game. Would win easily?

This thread is just an embarrassment.

We were also up 3 with a little more than 1 minute left in game 5 to possibly win the series 4-1.

But yeah, GSW looked liked they would win easily without KD :crazy:

CoachD · Post #60 » by **CoachD** » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:50 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:Yet it looked like GSW would win easily even without KD. When Klay went down, that is when the tide turned.

Huh? Raps were up 3-2 in the series and it was 4 point game. Would win easily?

This thread is just an embarrassment.

Warriors were 1-3 in the 2019 finals in games Klay DID play in

The narrative is so ridiculous.

Klay had a good game for that 1 win. The other games he was a non factor. Toronto wasn't fearing him even if he was healthy.

Is Ujiri overrated?