NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[dhsilv2]

Does this extend to the postseason? If you're Wiggins or Kyrie, and you are forced to sit 4/7 playoff games each series you basically have to be traded because that's a massive liability.

Duh? The rule isn't about the nba, it's anyone working in these places. You don't get an exception for the playoffs lol.

[dc]

Warriors win this. Either Wiggins gets vaccinated or they only pay half of his contract.

Not only would the salary be halved, but they'd save several times over on luxury tax payments.

[Hornet Mania]

Not really. Strong arming people causes a significant number to dig in, oftentimes permanently. Positive messaging is far more effective, especially if it comes from someone you know personally. You have your anecdote, yet I have my own. I discussed the vaccine with quite a few friends (I originally am from a southern state) and helped them come around on the vaccine. I did it by listening to their concerns and discussing why they shouldn't be deal breakers. I would have failed if I just said they were idiots or threatened them up front. Some people are legit too deep in the soup to be reached, but I think the size of that population is overstated by the media. Most people's reason for hesitance is far less wild than qanon or whatever.

And of course verbal persuasion can work. How else have ideas changed over human history if not through discussion and persuasion? It certainly wasn't all by force. I think many people, particularly in America, cannot imagine alternatives beyond force to solve problems and that is a problem in itself.

There is a significant population that won’t respond to persuasion or logic. Applying systems is more efficient than going door to door and trying to convince another person to believe something else.

I don't think door to door would be very effective either. But you can apply systems in a way that is more carrot than stick. For example, everyone could be guaranteed a minimum 2 days paid leave from work to be vaccinated. Everyone who gets vaccinated could be guaranteed free treatment if they did ever in fact get hospitalized with Covid (a very narrow Medicare for Vaxxed). I'm sure there are plenty of better proposals than that, but these would likely be as effective as mandates without the coercion.

[Ambrose]

Does this extend to the postseason? If you're Wiggins or Kyrie, and you are forced to sit 4/7 playoff games each series you basically have to be traded because that's a massive liability.

Duh? The rule isn't about the nba, it's anyone working in these places. You don't get an exception for the playoffs lol.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they made an exception for the playoffs if the Nets and Warriors were contenders. NY and CA are beacons of nonsensical actions.

[JohnnyNightrain]

I don't think it's fair to call them stupid. I have close relatives who are strongly against getting vaccinated that aren't stupid people. People who want everyone to get vaccinated have to understand the motivations of those who are resisting it. In my family's case it is a deep seeded fear and mistrust of the federal government that is the primary cause of their resistance. And people calling them stupid or ignorant has only caused them to dig in their heels more and become further entrenched in their beliefs.

I don't have the answer for how to open up real dialogue with guys like Wiggins and Beal, but if the goal is to get them vaccinated, insulting them is having the opposite of the desired result.

Lucky for them nobody thought like them when the polio and smallpox vaccines were developed.

The mistrust and fear of the Feds is odd to me, unless these people are going to completely live off the grid. If not, the Feds are pretty much in your life whether you like it or not.

People who get the polio and smallpox vaccines don't get infected by and spread smallpox and polio!

Jesus, you vax crusaders get this vaccine which you say protects you, but then are afraid you might get sick from unvaxxed people. Then you demand they get a vax shot that you obviously have zero confidence in. It's insanity.

In my state, 98.7% of COVID hospitalizations and 98.8% of COVID deaths are people who are unvaccinated. The vaccines work very, very well against hospitalization and death. Everyone knows this and everyone knows vaccines do not offer 100% protection against catching COVID. Vaccinated people are "afraid" of getting COVID not because they fear being sick, or because of "zero confidence," but because the symptoms can be so mild that you might not know you have it and you could spread it to unvaccinated people. If everyone was vaccinated, this wouldn't be an issue. Our state was down to 100 new cases per day in early July until Delta came along and started spreading through the unvaccinated people. Now we are at 2,500-5,000 new cases per day and the positivity rate is 10-14.9%, or higher, in almost every single county. So, your statement is totally ridiculous and illogical and you do not seem very intelligent at all.

Also, right now, 28% percent of our hospital beds are filled with COVID patients, meaning these idiots who won't get vaccinated are putting a great strain on out medical facilities. My friend's kid broke his arm and he had to sit in a waiting room full of unmasked, coughing people for six hours waiting for his kid to get medical attention.

[ItsDanger]

Nonsense. It's not based on the CBA, it's based on obeying the laws of the city. Arenas in SF and NYC have to obey health orders the same way that restaurants or anyone else has to obey health orders. If the city says restaurant workers have to meet certain health standards, restaurants have to enforce that or get shut down. The same goes for arenas. Where is the solid legal case?

Is that your legal opinion? LOL. Isaac can definitely sue and will likely win.

Is that your legal opinion?

Yes.

[xAIRNESSx]

Sounds fair. Stuff like this is usually a good motivator for unvaccinated individuals to get the shot.

Guess it's time for these guys to grow up and act like adults.

[JujitsuFlip]

Warriors win this. Either Wiggins gets vaccinated or they only pay half of his contract.

Not only would the salary be halved, but they'd save several times over on luxury tax payments.

In the other thread the tweet by Bobby Marks said the only way the luxury tax will be impacted is if the salary fines/salary withheld comes from the league. If it is the individual teams who are made to fine the player/withhold his salary for home games then the luxury tax will stay as is.

For sure has a lot of quirks to it.

[DTP]

There is so much ignorance on both sides of this whole thing and I'm just so tired of it.

Kyrie and any other player is welcomed to believe whatever the hell they want to believe....it is what it is. But the NBA as a business has the right to decide their own rules and if you don't want to comply with those rules, you quit. Just like in any other employment. Beal, Wiggins, etc. shouldn't be bullied into any decision about their own bodies. The only problem I have with Kyrie is he's always the distraction....he always have to be different, but that's a different conversation.

The NBA takes their direction from their doctors, who have done a great job navigating the league through this whole mess. Why would they stop now? They really want to push for all players to be vaccinated in order to participate this summer, but the union won't even have the conversation....so there are extra protocols put in place for unvaccinated players. Being vaccinated or wearing mask isn't 100% but these things help reduce the chance of a spread. Once again, as a player....if you don't comply to you can quit. But don't expect to get paid for not working. It is what it is, there's not really much discussion to have on it.

[Mickey8]

The land of free , Mussolini would be proud of today's America, how its run, dictatorship of the finest order

Warning

Derailing

[dc]

Does this extend to the postseason? If you're Wiggins or Kyrie, and you are forced to sit 4/7 playoff games each series you basically have to be traded because that's a massive liability.

Duh? The rule isn't about the nba, it's anyone working in these places. You don't get an exception for the playoffs lol.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they made an exception for the playoffs if the Nets and Warriors were contenders. NY and CA are beacons of nonsensical actions.

Um, recall that Toronto basically canceled the NBA for an entire season in their city and the Raps had to play all their home games in Florida.

The only reason people don't remember that much is because the Raps were tanking. If they were a contending team, it would've been a much bigger deal.

[dc]

The land of free , Mussolini would be proud of today's America, how its run, dictatorship of the finest order

The US (even if you consider just NY and CA) has easily been one of the most lax countries in the world in terms of restrictions during the pandemic.

[Myth]

Warriors win this. Either Wiggins gets vaccinated or they only pay half of his contract.

Not only would the salary be halved, but they'd save several times over on luxury tax payments.

In the other thread the tweet by Bobby Marks said the only way the luxury tax will be impacted is if the salary fines/salary withheld comes from the league. If it is the individual teams who are made to fine the player/withhold his salary for home games then the luxury tax will stay as is.

For sure has a lot of quirks to it.

Makes sense. It would be super sketchy and a conflict of interest if a team can fine players just to barely get under tax lines.

[Snakebites]

I'd like to see the section of CBA they base this on. Going to be a solid legal case regardless.

There's probably something in their contracts that specifies they must be available to play in the games. There are usually other provisions in the contract too about not doing any unsafe activities during the offseason.

#1 player is available. #2 define unsafe.

Pretty sure it violating local laws for them to play makes them unavailable.

Won’t even address number 2.

[dhsilv2]

The land of free , Mussolini would be proud of today's America, how its run, dictatorship of the finest order

Dictator.

a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force.

[xdrta+]

Is that your legal opinion? LOL. Isaac can definitely sue and will likely win.

Is that your legal opinion?

Yes.

What does Isaac have to do with it, none of this affects him.

[ken6199]

I know we as mods have given a lot of reminders. However, giving this reminder once again for the 763th time does not mean there will be one more coming, or we will keep letting your violations slide. Don't take things for granted.

Keep your discussion NBA related or strikes and bans will be handed out.

Read this guidance first before you participate in any vax-related topics. Thank you for making everyone's life easier.

[mickie]

I'm So sick of companies enforcing rules and making me comply with things in order to have employment and get paid.

don't be employed then. open your own business and see first hand why businesses do this.

[djsunyc]

this really makes front office jobs really tough. the nets have to basically function as if kyrie is not part of the team. i don't see how him playing only on the road helps either. steve nash did a masterful job dealing with him last season but this is a whole new thing - trying to keep his team focused and trying to win a chip. and the nets can't trade him b/c he said he would retire if he's traded.

it's a really tough situation. i expect this to change future nba player contracts where all these type of clauses will be put in for unseen events like this.

[Zeno]

Warriors win this. Either Wiggins gets vaccinated or they only pay half of his contract.

Not only would the salary be halved, but they'd save several times over on luxury tax payments.

I heard on the hoop collective podcast it was not half his salary but more like a 4th of it even though it is half the regular season games. Still the luxury tax would be like 40 million saves on top of that.