Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands”

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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#121 » by Meeksology » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:54 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I have just a question, I hope someone can answer me.
Assuming Simmons decides to holdout the whole year, if Philly wins the title.would he be entitled to get a ring?

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Yes. Dion Waiters was entitled to a ring in the bubble regardless who won the Lakers/Heat series. Similarly in the 2016 finals, Varejao was entitled to a ring regardless which team won the Warriors/Cavs series.
This is a totally different scenario than the 2 you mentioned. This scenario would be unprecedented and I would assume it would be up to the Sixers org to decide whether to give Simmons a ring or not.

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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#122 » by TheNewEra » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:55 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:To add if the 76ers built a team with both stars in mind but leaned more towards Ben then it’s most likely to health concerns of Joel
True but Ben has his own health issues too.



I think they would chalk those up to freak injuries more than expected ones and even then it’s not like the 76ers haven’t looked for insurance or replacements for Ben in Jimmy or Harden offer
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#123 » by Tottery » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:56 pm

Honestly, I like Ben, mostly due to his defensive grit, but there is no way I'm not paying Butler what he wants and moving Simmons back then lol.
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#124 » by TheNewEra » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:59 pm

KrAzY3 wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:This seems odd and petty attack at Ben because if I remember right Butler said it was a money issue.

Yeah they wouldn't pay him because they decided they wanted to focus on Ben. That's a money issue.

There's no sane reason to trade for a guy like Jimmy then not pay him unless you're dead set on catering to a player that needs extra special hugs and attention.



How come you can’t realize it when Jimmy came off a “toxic” label with the Wolves and then had issues in Philly. Another thing that kills the whole it was Ben logic was Jimmy clashed with Brown and Brown wasn’t even fired until after the bubble season. Brown took the ball out of Simmons hands and fed Butler and Jimmy gave numerous examples of not liking Browns approach.

They kept that man as coach after all that knowing if thry really wanted Butler he wouldn’t be happy with keeping him. Hell I doubt Simmons wanted Brown after switching up on him.
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#125 » by austuf » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:01 pm

Al Horford was brought in because he was Jojo's Daddy and it weaken'd one of the best teams in the east.

Dwight Howard was brought in to clear the lane for Ben ?

Andre Drummond was brought in to clear the lane for Ben ?

All these great 3pt shooters on the team that refuse to shoot.

Jojo shoots 3 3's a game (huge sacrifice).
Tobi shoots 3 3's a game.
Seth shoot's 3 3's a game.

The starting unit shot the least three's per game than any other starting unit.

The Jimmy decision was between Jimmy and Tobi. Is Jojo saying that they should have traded Ben and kept Jimmy and Tobi.
Did Ben know that Jojo wanted him traded two years ago.
Did Jojo give Morey a directive to move Ben for Harden.
Did Ben know that.

Personaly I understand that Jojo is frustraded at the lack of aggression in Ben's game. It is Frustrating.

I also understand why Ben want's out, with his new boss and coach trying to trade hime before he had ever played a game for them.
Especialy consindering that the guy they wanted to dump him for was refusing to show up for the team (oh the irony) and when he did show up he was unprofessional and out of shape.

And Ultimatley I have to give huge prop's to Ferttita, who played Morey like a Virtouso.
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#126 » by Tomjas » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:03 pm

It’s more depressing to think about what might have been if they didn’t make any big moves and kept their own picks

Could potentially run out Simmons, Maxey, Bridges, Tatum, Embiid but no, they had to get clever

Traded up and ended up giving away Fultz for nothing

Traded away Bridges and ended up giving away Smith for nothing
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#127 » by Antinomy » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:10 pm

Embiid was out there playing on one leg while Simmons was running away from the ball.

Honestly, if the Fultz pick had worked out, they’d have been set. Blowing that one really set in motion a series of poor decisions.

Passing on Tatum.

Trading their assets to get Jimmy then letting him walk.

Trading the rest of their assets to then MAX zero-time All-Star journeyman Tobias Harris.

Paying 40 year old Al Horford $100 million to be a backup C.

Dumping Bridges for nothing.

Bringing in Josh Richardson for no reason.

Maxing Ben then not trading him until the cat was outta bag around the league.

They panicked.
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#128 » by eyeatoma » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:12 pm

TheNewEra wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
TheNewEra wrote:To add if the 76ers built a team with both stars in mind but leaned more towards Ben then it’s most likely to health concerns of Joel
True but Ben has his own health issues too.



I think they would chalk those up to freak injuries more than expected ones and even then it’s not like the 76ers haven’t looked for insurance or replacements for Ben in Jimmy or Harden offer
Every injury Embiid had last year was a freak injury. When he broke his face that was a freak injury. Are we conveniently forgetting this?

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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#129 » by Ballerhogger » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:15 pm

RunOKC wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Sixers didn't get rid of Jimmy.

Jimmy left.

Because the Sixers wouldn't pay him.

beacause the ended up paying ben............. Big ouch looking at it now
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#130 » by zimpy27 » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:17 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Pelly24 wrote:Joel Embiid is absolutely correct. I wish to God they kept jimmy. They would've won the chip this past year. Just a very very trash situation.


The right team was Butler, Simmons, Embiid. Adding Green, Curry, Thybulle, Maxey to that would have been insane.
Agreed

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We disagree on OP but to be clear I am pro-sixers because I believed in Hinkie's vision. I dislike that the fumbling by the FO since Hinkie is going to tarnish that really smart strategy he put together.

Right now I don't think Embiid's comments are helping the 76ers at all. I know it can be instinctual to defend Embiid but the bigger picture for Philly is to get the best possible package for Simmons and move on. Any allusion to Simmons being difficult to play with stars doesn't help. If Embiid and sixers FO want to trash Simmons then by all means do it after the trade happens. Until then just keep talking up his abilities on the court and how he makes the team better. That's my thoughts on it anyway.
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#131 » by Ballerhogger » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:17 pm

TheNewEra wrote:To add if the 76ers built a team with both stars in mind but leaned more towards Ben then it’s most likely to health concerns of Joel

if thats the case jimmy buckets should stayed 76er..
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#132 » by eyeatoma » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:26 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
The right team was Butler, Simmons, Embiid. Adding Green, Curry, Thybulle, Maxey to that would have been insane.
Agreed

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We disagree on OP but to be clear I am pro-sixers because I believed in Hinkie's vision. I dislike that the fumbling by the FO since Hinkie is going to tarnish that really smart strategy he put together.

Right now I don't think Embiid's comments are helping the 76ers at all. I know it can be instinctual to defend Embiid but the bigger picture for Philly is to get the best possible package for Simmons and move on. Any allusion to Simmons being difficult to play with stars doesn't help. If Embiid and sixers FO want to trash Simmons then by all means do it after the trade happens. Until then just keep talking up his abilities on the court and how he makes the team better. That's my thoughts on it anyway.


Fair enough. Ideally, yes Embiid should say no comment and move on. I just don't think he's capable of that because he wears his heart on his sleeve. It is both a good and bad thing, as it translates to his dominance on the court, and makes for some funny anecdotes, but at times he gets his foot caught in his mouth. I don't think what he said here was wrong, but yes, it probably has not helped the situation. That being said, I can't really blame him either. There are constant hit pieces coming out from Ben's camp, that paint Jo and the organization in a bad light. He's only human and has every right to defend himself. All in all this has been a complete cluster ****, and I'd love to get a star for Ben, I do know that that is unlikely, but if Morey can wait till the deadline and if the Blazers, Bulls or Wizards have a **** start anything can happen. I think given that Morey has waited this long tells me that he is not going to take the Sacremento, Cleveland and Minnesota package. The only thing that could change that is if the owner Josh Harris says, alright I'm done, just take the best deal now and stop waiting.
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#133 » by Ballerhogger » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:28 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Agreed

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We disagree on OP but to be clear I am pro-sixers because I believed in Hinkie's vision. I dislike that the fumbling by the FO since Hinkie is going to tarnish that really smart strategy he put together.

Right now I don't think Embiid's comments are helping the 76ers at all. I know it can be instinctual to defend Embiid but the bigger picture for Philly is to get the best possible package for Simmons and move on. Any allusion to Simmons being difficult to play with stars doesn't help. If Embiid and sixers FO want to trash Simmons then by all means do it after the trade happens. Until then just keep talking up his abilities on the court and how he makes the team better. That's my thoughts on it anyway.


Fair enough. Ideally, yes Embiid should say no comment and move on. I just don't think he's capable of that because he wears his heart on his sleeve. It is both a good and bad thing, as it translates to his dominance on the court, and makes for some funny anecdotes, but at times he gets his foot caught in his mouth. I don't think what he said here was wrong, but yes, it probably has not helped the situation. That being said, I can't really blame him either. There are constant hit pieces coming out from Ben's camp, that paint Jo and the organization in a bad light. He's only human and has every right to defend himself. All in all this has been a complete cluster ****, and I'd love to get a star for Ben, I do know that that is unlikely, but if Morey can wait till the deadline and if the Blazers, Bulls or Wizards have a **** start anything can happen. I think given that Morey has waited this long tells me that he is not going to take the Sacremento, Cleveland and Minnesota package. The only thing that could change that is if the owner Josh Harris says, alright I'm done, just take the best deal now and stop waiting.

If they have rough start i think that will happen
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Re: Joel: “We got rid of Jimmy, which I still think it was a mistake, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#134 » by Doctor MJ » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:29 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:Haha wow... it's the truth and something the Sixers clearly screwed up.

The whole world but the people who mattered could tell you keeping Butler should have been priority number 1, Ben Simmons be damned.


Sure did, and I keep thinking about it and shaking my head.

It's important to say "Sixers" first and foremost because this was, well, a process. Many, many mistakes were made along the way and the Simmons-Embiid fit issue has loomed largest for years. No blame-assignment should be letting any decision makers off the hook.

But man, I consider Morey to have probably been a Top 3 GM of the 2010s. He did great work for Houston before the wheels came off at the end - which I don't think was reasonable to expect to avoid short of just doing an even better job as GM so the team somehow ends up the very best team in the league rather than just one of the best.

And upon his arrival in Philly, his Seth Curry move was fantastic. He's still a smart guy capable to quality vision and skilled detail work...but coming to Philly had to mean making the plausibly the right call with Simmons-Embiid, and that ship has now sailed in a way that was the furthest thing from unpredictable.

Morey decided, along with whoever else nudged him along the way, that the wisest course of action was to spend one year seeing how far Simmons-Embiid could go if he made some shrewd moves around them. Understandable why this made sense, and obviously it looked good in the regular season, but you have to have a sense that fallout like this is a realistic outcome of a playoff collapse, and the concern of playoff collapse due to the critical fit issues were always readily apparent.

We didn't know that the 76ers would fail, but we knew how the 76ers would fail if they failed. It could easily happen, and could easily become catastrophic if the stars turn on each other. It's a massive risk, and you're risking it for what? A bet that this duo with a majorly flawed weakness combination wouldn't have to face competition enough it would keep them from a title?

That bet made sense up to a point, but Morey needed to have the intellectual distance and pragmatic understanding to make the hard call and trade one of them when he arrived.

Not saying I'd fire Morey here, but he's dug himself into a hole, and were I the owner, I'd be giving him less rope at this point compared to a year ago. I have to know how he's responding to what's happening. Does he have a solid objective grasp of the entirety of the situation? How's his emotional state? Might he start managing desperately to try to "win it all back"? Oftentimes I find it's the desperate GMs who do the most damage to their employers.
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#135 » by JujitsuFlip » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:34 pm

austuf wrote:The starting unit shot the least three's per game than any other starting unit.

Wonder if this has anything to do with their starting PG flat out refusing to shoot the ball...
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#136 » by JujitsuFlip » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:36 pm

Meeksology wrote:
JujitsuFlip wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I have just a question, I hope someone can answer me.
Assuming Simmons decides to holdout the whole year, if Philly wins the title.would he be entitled to get a ring?

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Yes. Dion Waiters was entitled to a ring in the bubble regardless who won the Lakers/Heat series. Similarly in the 2016 finals, Varejao was entitled to a ring regardless which team won the Warriors/Cavs series.
This is a totally different scenario than the 2 you mentioned. This scenario would be unprecedented and I would assume it would be up to the Sixers org to decide whether to give Simmons a ring or not.

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Well, for sure. But he's on the roster, so if David Blatt can rock a 2016 Cavs championship ring, then in the hypothetical Ben feasibly could do the same.
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#137 » by Saul Goodman » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:38 pm

I always thought they could have put Simmons on the table for Brad Beal in 2019 and it would have been a done deal. Butler/Beal/Embiid would have won a chip.

Not trading for Harden and lowballing the rockets is going to go down as the worst non move of all time
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#138 » by trickshot » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:39 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Agreed

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We disagree on OP but to be clear I am pro-sixers because I believed in Hinkie's vision. I dislike that the fumbling by the FO since Hinkie is going to tarnish that really smart strategy he put together.

Right now I don't think Embiid's comments are helping the 76ers at all. I know it can be instinctual to defend Embiid but the bigger picture for Philly is to get the best possible package for Simmons and move on. Any allusion to Simmons being difficult to play with stars doesn't help. If Embiid and sixers FO want to trash Simmons then by all means do it after the trade happens. Until then just keep talking up his abilities on the court and how he makes the team better. That's my thoughts on it anyway.


Fair enough. Ideally, yes Embiid should say no comment and move on. I just don't think he's capable of that because he wears his heart on his sleeve. It is both a good and bad thing, as it translates to his dominance on the court, and makes for some funny anecdotes, but at times he gets his foot caught in his mouth. I don't think what he said here was wrong, but yes, it probably has not helped the situation. That being said, I can't really blame him either. There are constant hit pieces coming out from Ben's camp, that paint Jo and the organization in a bad light. He's only human and has every right to defend himself. All in all this has been a complete cluster ****, and I'd love to get a star for Ben, I do know that that is unlikely, but if Morey can wait till the deadline and if the Blazers, Bulls or Wizards have a **** start anything can happen. I think given that Morey has waited this long tells me that he is not going to take the Sacremento, Cleveland and Minnesota package. The only thing that could change that is if the owner Josh Harris says, alright I'm done, just take the best deal now and stop waiting.

I also don't blame Embiid even though he could have kept quiet. Having to hear he's at the middle of the fit issues with Simmons is borderline slanderous. It's like "Simmons would have fit issues with anyone, don't make me the problem when it's his weaknesses that aren't conducive to teambuilding" and he'd be right to think that. He just shot 38% from 3, how is a center with that kind of shooting efficiency not enough to open the floor for another star? Does Simmons just want his partner to camp at the arc all game?
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#139 » by eyeatoma » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:40 pm

Saul Goodman wrote:I always thought they could have put Simmons on the table for Brad Beal in 2019 and it would have been a done deal. Butler/Beal/Embiid would have won a chip.

Not trading for Harden and lowballing the rockets is going to go down as the worst non move of all time


You clearly aren't following if you think Morey lowballed the rockets. The article from Amick said that everyone thought Harden was going to Philly. Simmons was picking out houses in Houston. Does that make you think they lowballed? This was Fertitta saying fawk you to Morey.
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Re: Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands” 

Post#140 » by Tomjas » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:45 pm

JujitsuFlip wrote:
austuf wrote:The starting unit shot the least three's per game than any other starting unit.

Wonder if this has anything to do with their starting PG flat out refusing to shoot the ball...


Has as much to do with Harris as anyone else

He’s a good 3 point shooter but has come to prefer the mid range and, as a result, his 3pa were a career low last season

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