What Does Moses Brown Need To Work On The Most?

[SOUNDCHASER]

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[HairyGOATee]

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Sure, but Luka can only do so much. Moses himself, the coaching staff, and the front office control Moses' fate more than Luka does.

[SOUNDCHASER]

Yeah but if he rebounds and blocks shots to do all those little things we need done then you got to feed the man his share of dunks and easy shots

[DJ_3_Ball]

He needs to develop his chemistry & timing with Luka. That's a tall order. Learning how to be Luka's PnR man, but he's the best rim protector on the team, so it'd be nice to find a way to keep him on the floor. In a series like last year vs LAC, it's a necessity.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Interesting enough no one before Mavs was interesting in getting lucky with Brown. Not in draft and not in his first 3 clubs in Nba. I guess Mavs are really extremely lucky.

Listening how a player, who has never even attempted 3 points shot in his college or professional career, wants to play similarly to Dirk and KP is hilarious. 98.8% of his shots was from 10 ft or less.

Chris Boucher. Juco. Then college no one has ever heard of for a year. Then Oregon. Goes Undrafted. Cut by Golden State (they're a pretty smart team, right?). Then Toronto where last year he averaged 6.7 rpb 1.9 bpg 13.6 ppg and even hit 1.5 treys on 38.3% 3PM. At 28 years old.

I could make a list a mile long of players who went on to have very productive careers after a team(s) passed on them. How about Isaiah Thomas? Sacramento let him go. Phoenix let him go. Then in Boston he damn near wins the MVP.

Laugh all you want at a 21 year old who has goals. Say it's impossible. First 8 seasons of Brook Lopez's career, he was 3 for 31 3PM. Last 6 seasons, he's over 34% 3PM on roughly 5 3PA per game.

Sounds like you wouldn't of even picked Moses up. Let someone other team take the chance. Meanwhile Mavs still giving up a layup line when they see the Clippers in the playoffs

[Apz]

Yeah, the dirk thing... I reacted to that too when he said it. That first preseason game i instantly thought he will be unplayable late in games, teams will just hack him and have him miss freethrows. Im no expert in shooting technique, but it never felt he would be close to hit it even when he actually did hit em. But ofc, if someone askd me in hockey who i would want to learn the skills of,i would say gretzky, bure or lemieux. Not that i ever would have any chance to that...

[DJ_3_Ball]

Yeah, the dirk thing... I reacted to that too when he said it. That first preseason game i instantly thought he will be unplayable late in games, teams will just hack him and have him miss freethrows. Im no expert in shooting technique, but it never felt he would be close to hit it even when he actually did hit em. But ofc, if someone askd me in hockey who i would want to learn the skills of,i would say gretzky, bure or lemieux. Not that i ever would have any chance to that...

Yeah, Brown might have averaged a double double in college, but he shot a ridiculous 37% on 4 FTA per game. Definitely would have cut into his playing time.

Last season, if you take out the games pre ASB where the Thunder were playing him sparingly, I wanna say he averaged 12+ rpg on something like 22 mpg. Solid #s but also the Thunder weren't in a lot of close games, so no need for opposing teams to play Hack-a-Shaq.

I didn't think of that, but that is a very significant problem with Brown. He has never been able to shoot FTs well, heck shoot them adequately for a big who doesn't shoot FTs well even. And he may never develop a jumper.

It does explain why a guy who's 7-2 athletic & mobile with a 7-4 wingspan, protects the rim & rebounds at an elite level would be overlooked by so many teams. A lot of teams feel a player like that is a thing of the past. But, Moses Brown fills a big need for the Mavs in those areas. Maybe we'd just have to accept that he can only play the first 3.5 quarters of games.

[Teffer10]

Yeah, the dirk thing... I reacted to that too when he said it. That first preseason game i instantly thought he will be unplayable late in games, teams will just hack him and have him miss freethrows. Im no expert in shooting technique, but it never felt he would be close to hit it even when he actually did hit em. But ofc, if someone askd me in hockey who i would want to learn the skills of,i would say gretzky, bure or lemieux. Not that i ever would have any chance to that...

Yeah, Brown might have averaged a double double in college, but he shot a ridiculous 37% on 4 FTA per game. Definitely would have cut into his playing time.

Last season, if you take out the games pre ASB where the Thunder were playing him sparingly, I wanna say he averaged 12+ rpg on something like 22 mpg. Solid #s but also the Thunder weren't in a lot of close games, so no need for opposing teams to play Hack-a-Shaq.

I didn't think of that, but that is a very significant problem with Brown. He has never been able to shoot FTs well, heck shoot them adequately for a big who doesn't shoot FTs well even. And he may never develop a jumper.

It does explain why a guy who's 7-2 athletic & mobile with a 7-4 wingspan, protects the rim & rebounds at an elite level would be overlooked by so many teams. A lot of teams feel a player like that is a thing of the past. But, Moses Brown fills a big need for the Mavs in those areas. Maybe we'd just have to accept that he can only play the first 3.5 quarters of games.

That FT issue can be fixed if someone shows him to not release the left hand a second before taking the shot.
It looks like he is shooting with one hand.
The non-shooting hand should be used to help stabilize and guide the ball and if it is released too soon the probability of hitting the target diminishes greatly.
FT Shooting 101

One of the other factors is squaring the knees with the shoulders with both toes just behind the FT line.
There are a few other critical factors but those will be covered in FT Shooting 102

Give me a few weeks with that guy and he'll vastly improve

[DJ_3_Ball]

That FT issue can be fixed if someone shows him to not release the left hand a second before taking the shot.
It looks like he is shooting with one hand.
The non-shooting hand should be used to help stabilize and guide the ball and if it is released too soon the probability of hitting the target diminishes greatly.
FT Shooting 101

One of the other factors is squaring the knees with the shoulders with both toes just behind the FT line.
There are a few other critical factors but those will be covered in FT Shooting 102

Give me a few weeks with that guy and he'll vastly improve

Fair point. But, what do you think they were doing at UCLA? Brown played high school & AAU ball with Cole Anthony. You don't think anyone at any of those AAU tournaments ever pulled him aside & tried to show him how to shoot a basketball? Maybe Cole's dad, Greg Anthony for example?

I would be shocked if someone with a lot of experience coaching players how to shoot hasn't already tried to work with Moses, but hopefully, the Mavs can help him. If he could shoot 65% from the line, wouldn't need to think about taking him off the court in late game situations.

[Teffer10]

That FT issue can be fixed if someone shows him to not release the left hand a second before taking the shot.
It looks like he is shooting with one hand.
The non-shooting hand should be used to help stabilize and guide the ball and if it is released too soon the probability of hitting the target diminishes greatly.
FT Shooting 101

One of the other factors is squaring the knees with the shoulders with both toes just behind the FT line.
There are a few other critical factors but those will be covered in FT Shooting 102

Give me a few weeks with that guy and he'll vastly improve

Fair point. But, what do you think they were doing at UCLA? Brown played high school & AAU ball with Cole Anthony. You don't think anyone at any of those AAU tournaments ever pulled him aside & tried to show him how to shoot a basketball? Maybe Cole's dad, Greg Anthony for example?

I would be shocked if someone with a lot of experience coaching players how to shoot hasn't already tried to work with Moses, but hopefully, the Mavs can help him. If he could shoot 65% from the line, wouldn't need to think about taking him off the court in late game situations.

IDK...this is a huge mystery to me because someone should pull him aside and have him watch a minimum of 40 hours of video of Steve Nash and some others who are great FT shooters and then shoot a minimum of 100 FTs everyday using the techniques learned in those videos.

It seems like the easiest thing in the world to teach and correct and I've worked with countless youngsters at BB camps and youth leagues on simple techniques and fundamentals of the FT shooting process.
Kids haven't picked up the bad habits but like you said, you would think a coach or mentor would notice his incredibly horrible mechanics and techniques and focus on correcting them considering his youth, size, position, potential, and the current NBA style of play.

My initial response was mostly sarcastic because you would think this would have been addressed. The way he shoots suggests to me that he has been taught but hasn't adjusted at all, or hasn't been taught at all. I can't imagine it has been the latter.

[DJ_3_Ball]

IDK...this is a huge mystery to me because someone should pull him aside and have him watch a minimum of 40 hours of video of Steve Nash and some others who are great FT shooters and then shoot a minimum of 100 FTs everyday using the techniques learned in those videos.

It seems like the easiest thing in the world to teach and correct and I've worked with countless youngsters at BB camps and youth leagues on simple techniques and fundamentals of the FT shooting process.
Kids haven't picked up the bad habits but like you said, you would think a coach or mentor would notice his incredibly horrible mechanics and techniques and focus on correcting them considering his youth, size, position, potential, and the current NBA style of play.

My initial response was mostly sarcastic because you would think this would have been addressed. The way he shoots suggests to me that he has been taught but hasn't adjusted at all, or hasn't been taught at all. I can't imagine it has been the latter.

I can only relate this to my own personal experience. Seems like eons ago, but back in 2005, I decided to really work out & train for a college basketball team. I was 26, but I learned there wasn't an age limit for NAIA schools. I think some 55 year old played linebacker for an NAIA school in West Texas, and it made the news.

So there I was training. I got in the best shape of my life, and I had the keys to a nearby gym because of my dad's work, so every night I would go shoot for 2-3 hours. Sometimes longer. I shot a minimum of 200 Free Throws, 1,000 3s and I ran lines, did some dribbling drills, and a few mid range shots, etc. Occasionally, a couple friends of mine who were semi-pro players came by to workout with me and we'd play 1-on-1.

They would usually beat me about 11-3, and I couldn't get my shot off vs them. I'm 6-6 and they're 6-6 & 6-7, but they were stronger and quicker, and I was benching 275 at the time with a 31.5" vertical. That said, if they missed a shot and the ball jetted out to where I could get there first, turn & fire and splash. They knew that was the main way I could score. Also, on a check up, I back up 3 feet and let it fly. Eventually though they're close outs were so quick on me that I had some difficulty. But I still knocked down shots on guys who played D1 college ball and not only that were playing overseas.

So, when I went to tryout at an NAIA school, I felt confident. When I was warming up, these students in the bleachers were giving me a bit of a hard time, so I bet one of them I could hit a half court shot. I hit it, then hit another and then a 3rd one. I'm not even sure I missed in warm ups.

Then the coach walks in the gym. The guy who could give me a scholarship. The guy who could put me on the team or tell me not to come back. Things changed. In the game, I rushed my first shot. Went wide left hit the backboard and didn't even graze the rim. I shot over 1,500 shots literally every night for 6 months straight, and my first shot was basically an airball because of nerves. I didn't make any jumpshots during tryouts. I crossed up this 6-8 dude and hit a reverse layup.

Thing is the coach had been watching warmups, and I didn't know it. He said I was a good shooter, but my release point was too low.

Anyways, that experience always taught me the difference between going to a pick up game and hitting every shot you take and then what's it's like to do the same thing when there's real pressure. Not to mention, it's easy to stand in place and shoot FTs one right after the other. It's a different animal when you're running up & down the court for 3 minutes at top speed, and then you gotta stop, compose yourself, catch your breathe, and shoot FTs in front of 20,000 people with bright lights, a TV audience watching and potentially the game on the line.

The same guy that can stand in place at the FT line and hit 85 out of 100, would shoot 60 out of 100 (or worse) if you add those extra elements to the mix.

[Teffer10]

IDK...this is a huge mystery to me because someone should pull him aside and have him watch a minimum of 40 hours of video of Steve Nash and some others who are great FT shooters and then shoot a minimum of 100 FTs everyday using the techniques learned in those videos.

It seems like the easiest thing in the world to teach and correct and I've worked with countless youngsters at BB camps and youth leagues on simple techniques and fundamentals of the FT shooting process.
Kids haven't picked up the bad habits but like you said, you would think a coach or mentor would notice his incredibly horrible mechanics and techniques and focus on correcting them considering his youth, size, position, potential, and the current NBA style of play.

My initial response was mostly sarcastic because you would think this would have been addressed. The way he shoots suggests to me that he has been taught but hasn't adjusted at all, or hasn't been taught at all. I can't imagine it has been the latter.

I can only relate this to my own personal experience. Seems like eons ago, but back in 2005, I decided to really work out & train for a college basketball team. I was 26, but I learned there wasn't an age limit for NAIA schools. I think some 55 year old played linebacker for an NAIA school in West Texas, and it made the news.

So there I was training. I got in the best shape of my life, and I had the keys to a nearby gym because of my dad's work, so every night I would go shoot for 2-3 hours. Sometimes longer. I shot a minimum of 200 Free Throws, 1,000 3s and I ran lines, did some dribbling drills, and a few mid range shots, etc. Occasionally, a couple friends of mine who were semi-pro players came by to workout with me and we'd play 1-on-1.

They would usually beat me about 11-3, and I couldn't get my shot off vs them. I'm 6-6 and they're 6-6 & 6-7, but they were stronger and quicker, and I was benching 275 at the time with a 31.5" vertical. That said, if they missed a shot and the ball jetted out to where I could get there first, turn & fire and splash. They knew that was the main way I could score. Also, on a check up, I back up 3 feet and let it fly. Eventually though they're close outs were so quick on me that I had some difficulty. But I still knocked down shots on guys who played D1 college ball and not only that were playing overseas.

So, when I went to tryout at an NAIA school, I felt confident. When I was warming up, these students in the bleachers were giving me a bit of a hard time, so I bet one of them I could hit a half court shot. I hit it, then hit another and then a 3rd one. I'm not even sure I missed in warm ups.

Then the coach walks in the gym. The guy who could give me a scholarship. The guy who could put me on the team or tell me not to come back. Things changed. In the game, I rushed my first shot. Went wide left hit the backboard and didn't even graze the rim. I shot over 1,500 shots literally every night for 6 months straight, and my first shot was basically an airball because of nerves. I didn't make any jumpshots during tryouts. I crossed up this 6-8 dude and hit a reverse layup.

Thing is the coach had been watching warmups, and I didn't know it. He said I was a good shooter, but my release point was too low.

Anyways, that experience always taught me the difference between going to a pick up game and hitting every shot you take and then what's it's like to do the same thing when there's real pressure. Not to mention, it's easy to stand in place and shoot FTs one right after the other. It's a different animal when you're running up & down the court for 3 minutes at top speed, and then you gotta stop, compose yourself, catch your breathe, and shoot FTs in front of 20,000 people with bright lights, a TV audience watching and potentially the game on the line.

The same guy that can stand in place at the FT line and hit 85 out of 100, would shoot 60 out of 100 (or worse) if you add those extra elements to the mix.

Great points and I definitely agree but the big difference is the mechanics of Moses' shooting technique.
I'd almost bet he wouldn't hit 85 out of 200 FTs in a gym by himself with that technique.
Besides the one handed shot, he doesn't bend his legs properly, doesn't square to the basket, and there is a hitch in his shot. It doesn't appear fluent and as you know as a VERY Good Shooter it is all about fluency in the motion including the release off the finger tips, elbow position, balance, sight and coordinating it all together. With a jump shot it includes the release at the height of the shot.

Moses just looks like a kid that has always been the tallest guy on the team and has always been taught to use his height as an advantage. He's always around the rim (which is a good thing for what we need) but probably has never been asked to shoot much because he probably hasn't had to...at least more than a couple feet.
A. Davis played PG at a younger age so he developed more all around BB skills that has helped make him what he is today. It appears to me that Moses hasn't been coached a very wide variety of BB skills so many will need to be developed quickly if he wants to remain in today's NBA.

[LAL1947]

What Does Moses Brown Need To Work On The Most?

Fitting in with the NY crowd... for when Dallas trades him for Jericho Sims. Bazinga!

I've got no issues with Moses... he seems a good kid, tries hard and plays with heart. But what he can/can't do on the court is not what Dallas needs and already has Boban/WCS to do.

I don't think a team needs more than 3 centers. Even if we call Porzingis a Power Forward and trade Powell next summer... team will still have Boban/WCS/Moses as the center options. This trio is just not good enough and will not be good enough even with development. All three are role-players only. So one has to be moved for someone with better/different abilities or higher trajectory. It looks like Boban is here for another year after this one, like it or not. If push comes to shove, I'll go with WCS over Moses for the last spot since WCS can be depended on more... which will be important if the one that is brought in is young.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Great points and I definitely agree but the big difference is the mechanics of Moses' shooting technique.
I'd almost bet he wouldn't hit 85 out of 200 FTs in a gym by himself with that technique.
Besides the one handed shot, he doesn't bend his legs properly, doesn't square to the basket, and there is a hitch in his shot. It doesn't appear fluent and as you know as a VERY Good Shooter it is all about fluency in the motion including the release off the finger tips, elbow position, balance, sight and coordinating it all together. With a jump shot it includes the release at the height of the shot.

Moses just looks like a kid that has always been the tallest guy on the team and has always been taught to use his height as an advantage. He's always around the rim (which is a good thing for what we need) but probably has never been asked to shoot much because he probably hasn't had to...at least more than a couple feet.
A. Davis played PG at a younger age so he developed more all around BB skills that has helped make him what he is today. It appears to me that Moses hasn't been coached a very wide variety of BB skills so many will need to be developed quickly if he wants to remain in today's NBA.

I'd wanna see him shoot in a gym by himself to see his form. Muscle memory is definitely real, so practice correctly and it translate over to game situations.

That said, when nerves take over the form can breakdown. You're seeing Moses Brown shoot FTs in high stress situations.

I would venture a guess that you could work with him and he would shoot better in a gym when it's just you & him, and then go out in games and shoot just as poorly as he has been.

I'd venture a guest several coaches have already had that exact experience with him.

[Apz]

If I could choose, I would have KP, WCS and Moses and get rid of powell and boban. Maybe keep powell, I got nothing against the guy really, and only reason I prefer to keep wcs over him is that wcs is an ironman. Dude never injured, and we would be doomed if KP went down if powell/moses were our only options. Then get holger or dirk to work with moses together with tyson, every training, half time with tyson half with H/D. If he really want to e good he should follow the footsteps of luka. Stay after every training/game and just shoot shoot shoot. Thats what will make him stick in the league and make him a viable option.

[Bob8]

Interesting enough no one before Mavs was interesting in getting lucky with Brown. Not in draft and not in his first 3 clubs in Nba. I guess Mavs are really extremely lucky.

Listening how a player, who has never even attempted 3 points shot in his college or professional career, wants to play similarly to Dirk and KP is hilarious. 98.8% of his shots was from 10 ft or less.

Chris Boucher. Juco. Then college no one has ever heard of for a year. Then Oregon. Goes Undrafted. Cut by Golden State (they're a pretty smart team, right?). Then Toronto where last year he averaged 6.7 rpb 1.9 bpg 13.6 ppg and even hit 1.5 treys on 38.3% 3PM. At 28 years old.

I could make a list a mile long of players who went on to have very productive careers after a team(s) passed on them. How about Isaiah Thomas? Sacramento let him go. Phoenix let him go. Then in Boston he damn near wins the MVP.

Laugh all you want at a 21 year old who has goals. Say it's impossible. First 8 seasons of Brook Lopez's career, he was 3 for 31 3PM. Last 6 seasons, he's over 34% 3PM on roughly 5 3PA per game.

Sounds like you wouldn't of even picked Moses up. Let someone other team take the chance. Meanwhile Mavs still giving up a layup line when they see the Clippers in the playoffs

Moses mentioned Dirk and KP as comparison.

It's not a problem that he's not shooting 3-pointers at all, he's not shooting outside of 10 ft too. And he was shooting 35% FT in high school. You really believe that his goal is realistic? With his skill set and body type he should look at Gobert or someone like that.

No problem with picking him up, but then they should get rid of at least one of Boban and WCS. What is a point of having Moses, WCS and Boban in the same team?

[DJ_3_Ball]

Moses mentioned Dirk and KP as comparison.

It's not a problem that he's not shooting 3-pointers at all, he's not shooting outside of 10 ft too. And he was shooting 35% FT in high school. You really believe that his goal is realistic? With his skill set and body type he should look at Gobert or someone like that.

No problem with picking him up, but then they should get rid of at least one of Boban and WCS. What is a point of having Moses, WCS and Boban in the same team?

Dame Lilliard has a rap album. Wants to be a respected rap artist. If I'm the Portland Trailblazers, do I care? No. All I care about is what Dame Lilliard can do. On the basketball court.

When did I say I think Moses Brown will be the next Dirk or KP? For the record, he didn't say that was his comparison. He said that was his goal. What goal would you like him to have? Your **** low expectations for him? Or is it okay with you if the kid has dreams?

The kid can rebound and he can protect the rim and anyone who watched all 7 games vs the Clippers knows how desperate we were for those two things.

[Bob8]

Moses mentioned Dirk and KP as comparison.

It's not a problem that he's not shooting 3-pointers at all, he's not shooting outside of 10 ft too. And he was shooting 35% FT in high school. You really believe that his goal is realistic? With his skill set and body type he should look at Gobert or someone like that.

No problem with picking him up, but then they should get rid of at least one of Boban and WCS. What is a point of having Moses, WCS and Boban in the same team?

Dame Lilliard has a rap album. Wants to be a respected rap artist. If I'm the Portland Trailblazers, do I care? No. All I care about is what Dame Lilliard can do. On the basketball court.

When did I say I think Moses Brown will be the next Dirk or KP? For the record, he didn't say that was his comparison. He said that was his goal. What goal would you like him to have? Your **** low expectations for him? Or is it okay with you if the kid has dreams?

The kid can rebound and he can protect the rim and anyone who watched all 7 games vs the Clippers knows how desperate we were for those two things.

Kid cannot shoot at all and his goal is playing like Dirk/KP? Really? He's 7'2. His goal should be totally different. Like you said, rim protection and rebounding.

Do you really believe that he would have changed anything in Clippers series?

Mavs have WCS, Boban and Moses for something like 20 minutes available.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Kid cannot shoot at all and his goal is playing like Dirk/KP? Really? He's 7'2. His goal should be totally different. Like you said, rim protection and rebounding.

Do you really believe that he would have changed anything in Clippers series?

Mavs have WCS, Boban and Moses for something like 20 minutes available.

You should think about a career in NBA scouting. I'm sure your final recommendation to the GM will go over like gangbusters!!

This kid sucks
This kid sucks worse
This kid sucks & he actually has a goal of not sucking. LOL!!
I guess we have to take somebody boss, so take this kid. He sucks, but at least he doesn't suck quite as much as everybody else.


Very inspiring!

[Bob8]

Kid cannot shoot at all and his goal is playing like Dirk/KP? Really? He's 7'2. His goal should be totally different. Like you said, rim protection and rebounding.

Do you really believe that he would have changed anything in Clippers series?

Mavs have WCS, Boban and Moses for something like 20 minutes available.

You should think about a career in NBA scouting. I'm sure your final recommendation to the GM will go over like gangbusters!!

This kid sucks
This kid sucks worse
This kid sucks & he actually has a goal of not sucking. LOL!!
I guess we have to take somebody boss, so take this kid. He sucks, but at least he doesn't suck quite as much as everybody else.


Very inspiring!

What do you really want? Can I have an opinion about Moses? Is my opinion, that he will never be good shooter, so wrong that you have to be angry with me?

Moses might have future in Nba, but imho he doesn't need to become good shooter for that. His primary goal this year is to get playing time, which might be tricky knowing how many Cs Mavs have.

I don't understand and see a need for your aggressive response.