Front office has crushed it

[a8bil]

Reading through this thread...some folks are starting down the Boulevard of Broken Dreams. Getting back to true championship contention is going to take years...not weeks or months.

You're being too pessimistic. Look at who was in the PO last year and how they fared. Do you really think with the roster improvements made since last year that GSW can't compete with them? Sure, injuries played a role in the PO, but no one in the WC were dominant last year. A somewhat healthy Klay, along with Iggy, OPJ, Moody, Bjelica should have them right back into contention. Perhaps not dominant themselves, but they should be in the discussion, particularly how they played down the stretch last year once they stopped trying to force JW and KO into the rotation.

[Sleepy51]

Reading through this thread...some folks are starting down the Boulevard of Broken Dreams. Getting back to true championship contention is going to take years...not weeks or months.

I think you’re more right than wrong that people are spiking the ball on the 30 yard line here, but what are you defining as true championship contention”?

There is a not entirely unreasonable perspective that if you get a healthy Steph Curry into the playoffs that all bets are off. I would use the definition of either a) reaching the finals from whatever position or b) being a top 4 seed with home court as a working definition.

It’s the “years away” part that I balk at. I think they are 1 year away from 4 seed. Curry, healthy Klay, Wiggins (or what you can get with his expiring and young talent) Draymond and any functional NBA big man is a 4 seed in my eyes. I mean, we literally have never been worse than that with the core healthy. If 4 seed isn’t the bar for Truly contending what is in your terms?

[GSWFan1994]

Dude...I was squarely in the camp EARLY last year that thought he was a bust.

But look read the words of this OP in the initial thread. I am clearly undecided then and asking for other's takes.

I think evolving based on further evidence is a decent approach to assessing a player?

I wasn't referring to Poole specifically, but more in the sense that, in the beginning of the off-season, you wanted to trade all the draft picks and go all in for veteran help.

And now you did a complete 180, just reading your posts makes that clear.

Obviously there's no problem with that, you're entitled to your opinion and, as a member of the forum, has a right to express them too.

I just find it funny that you change stances very frequently. But I don't think it's bad per se, just the way you are.

Cheers.

[Scoots1994]

Reading through this thread...some folks are starting down the Boulevard of Broken Dreams. Getting back to true championship contention is going to take years...not weeks or months.

I think you’re more right than wrong that people are spiking the ball on the 30 yard line here, but what are you defining as true championship contention”?

There is a not entirely unreasonable perspective that if you get a healthy Steph Curry into the playoffs that all bets are off. I would use the definition of either a) reaching the finals from whatever position or b) being a top 4 seed with home court as a working definition.

It’s the “years away” part that I balk at. I think they are 1 year away from 4 seed. Curry, healthy Klay, Wiggins (or what you can get with his expiring and young talent) Draymond and any functional NBA big man is a 4 seed in my eyes. I mean, we literally have never been worse than that with the core healthy. If 4 seed isn’t the bar for Truly contending what is in your terms?

I think saying the front office did a good job building a roster for now and the future is certainly not the same as "spiking the ball".

I said the young guys have a LONG way to go. There is reason for optimism is all.

[Old_Blue]

I think saying the front office did a good job building a roster for now and the future is certainly not the same as "spiking the ball".

I said the young guys have a LONG way to go. There is reason for optimism is all.

I think this is a healthy perspective. The folks I worry about are the ones who think everything that can go right will, in fact, go right. If last year taught us anything it's that incorporating youth into the lineup requires patience.

[Xplatformer]

:nod:

It looks like Poole is a top 3 type draft pick taken at....28??? Poole, IMO, may be the bridge to a continued dynastic run.

The DRAFTED youth on this team:
Wiseman, Moody, Kuminga (by trading Dlo), Poole (23rd pick).

The added Vets - BJ, Auto Porter, Iggy, Avery (I'm willing to give him more time).

The ceiling and floor on these guys is extremely high.

The balance of vets and youth on this team has set up the Warriors for another 10 years if things work out decently.

I like the positivity! I'm happy to see the growing consensus on Poole. I've been cheerleading for him for a while. I wasn't alone, but there were no shortage of fans willing to dump on him....they've quieted down significantly.

He has potential to be very good. His footwork...handles ...shot selection are all good...but he still looks very raw sometimes with the shot selection and handles. Like him lot and hope he continues to improve.

Sent from my KFTRWI using Tapatalk

[Sleepy51]

Reading through this thread...some folks are starting down the Boulevard of Broken Dreams. Getting back to true championship contention is going to take years...not weeks or months.

I think you’re more right than wrong that people are spiking the ball on the 30 yard line here, but what are you defining as true championship contention”?

There is a not entirely unreasonable perspective that if you get a healthy Steph Curry into the playoffs that all bets are off. I would use the definition of either a) reaching the finals from whatever position or b) being a top 4 seed with home court as a working definition.

It’s the “years away” part that I balk at. I think they are 1 year away from 4 seed. Curry, healthy Klay, Wiggins (or what you can get with his expiring and young talent) Draymond and any functional NBA big man is a 4 seed in my eyes. I mean, we literally have never been worse than that with the core healthy. If 4 seed isn’t the bar for Truly contending what is in your terms?

I said the young guys have a LONG way to go. There is reason for optimism is all.

I'm not a front office skeptic at all. I don't see the "huge missed opportunities" other than the Lamelo > Wiseman pick. At the time I had some fear that we were all overrating the Lamelo externalities and underating his playmaking ability but I talked myself out of the pick as well so I can't fault them too much and I do believe that the Wiseman pick can still be vindicated.

Outside of that I think they have done an good job on balance. Picking/developing maintaining chemistry and a positive culture throughout two injury savaged seasons. But to say anything has been "crushed" in my mind will require that they succeed in their stated dual track objective. A lot of NBA people have said that you can not successfuly develop and contend. They have clearly staked out their ground as believing that this team can "thread that needle." I think the develop for the long term objective is well in hand, it's the contending during Curry's prime objective that remains an open question to me. I think it's achievable by my definitions, Im just curious about others definitions of success in the stated mission.

[ShootersShoot]

I think we are in a solid position.

PG - Steph/poole
SG - Klay/poole
SF - Wiggs/OPJ
PF - Dray/OPJ
C - Looney/Bjeli/Wiseman

Lee, Bradley, Iggy

Arguably every position SL and bench can hold their own two deep every game and then some except for center, and we have yet to see what second year wiseman can do. And even then both looney and bjeli are serviceable. Moody and Kuminga can develop in g-league. I think if wiseman takes a leap and vindicates the FO a bit on that pick, we dont have much to complain about once klay gets up to speed. Trying to be optimistic, and I dont think its too unreasonable to hope klay and wiseman can be positives this year.

[shazam_guy]

Whatever else he is capable of when he first gets back on the court, Wiseman will change a lot of inside shots and make opposing players re-think driving the lane. That's valuable in and of itself. Looney can't do that, nor can anyone else on the roster.

[Sleepy51]

I think we are in a solid position.

PG - Steph/poole
SG - Klay/poole
SF - Wiggs/OPJ
PF - Dray/OPJ
C - Looney/Bjeli/Wiseman

Lee, Bradley, Iggy

Arguably every position SL and bench can hold their own two deep every game and then some except for center, and we have yet to see what second year wiseman can do. And even then both looney and bjeli are serviceable. Moody and Kuminga can develop in g-league. I think if wiseman takes a leap and vindicates the FO a bit on that pick, we dont have much to complain about once klay gets up to speed. Trying to be optimistic, and I dont think its too unreasonable to hope klay and wiseman can be positives this year.

Solid position to do what?

Again, I’m not skeptical. I think we are in a solid position to be a home seed and/or reach the finals by next year. To me that will be achieving contention objective.

I am just really curious what standard everyone else is willing to hold the front office to in terms of measuring success.

How come nobody wants to say where the goalposts sit (on either side of this debate)?

[Onus]

I think we are in a solid position.

PG - Steph/poole
SG - Klay/poole
SF - Wiggs/OPJ
PF - Dray/OPJ
C - Looney/Bjeli/Wiseman

Lee, Bradley, Iggy

Arguably every position SL and bench can hold their own two deep every game and then some except for center, and we have yet to see what second year wiseman can do. And even then both looney and bjeli are serviceable. Moody and Kuminga can develop in g-league. I think if wiseman takes a leap and vindicates the FO a bit on that pick, we dont have much to complain about once klay gets up to speed. Trying to be optimistic, and I dont think its too unreasonable to hope klay and wiseman can be positives this year.

Solid position to do what?

Again, I’m not skeptical. I think we are in a solid position to be a home seed and/or reach the finals by next year. To me that will be achieving contention objective.

I am just really curious what standard everyone else is willing to hold the front office to in terms of measuring success.

How come nobody wants to say where the goalposts sit (on either side of this debate)?

I think this is a top 4 team in the west, with a shot to win the title (barring injury). I do think if we aren't a top 4 seed or at least in that tier, not jumbled in the mid tier then it's a failure that they didn't capitalize on the rookies to actually get Curry help. But I think he's got enough help for him to compete.

[xdrta+]

I think we are in a solid position.

PG - Steph/poole
SG - Klay/poole
SF - Wiggs/OPJ
PF - Dray/OPJ
C - Looney/Bjeli/Wiseman

Lee, Bradley, Iggy

Arguably every position SL and bench can hold their own two deep every game and then some except for center, and we have yet to see what second year wiseman can do. And even then both looney and bjeli are serviceable. Moody and Kuminga can develop in g-league. I think if wiseman takes a leap and vindicates the FO a bit on that pick, we dont have much to complain about once klay gets up to speed. Trying to be optimistic, and I dont think its too unreasonable to hope klay and wiseman can be positives this year.

Solid position to do what?

Again, I’m not skeptical. I think we are in a solid position to be a home seed and/or reach the finals by next year. To me that will be achieving contention objective.

I am just really curious what standard everyone else is willing to hold the front office to in terms of measuring success.

How come nobody wants to say where the goalposts sit (on either side of this debate)?

Probably because there are so many unknowns. When will Klay be back and what will he look like? Can Wiseman contribute? Is Poole for real or is it just pre-season fool's gold? Will the oft-injured vets we picked up at min contracts stay healthy and actually contribute? How can anyone set a standard for the FO with so many question marks? The FO took their best shots and it remains to be seen how it will play out. Then, as is usual on RealGM, with hindsight we'll decide if they did well or they are trash and should all be fired.

[ILOVEIT]

Dude...I was squarely in the camp EARLY last year that thought he was a bust.

But look read the words of this OP in the initial thread. I am clearly undecided then and asking for other's takes.

I think evolving based on further evidence is a decent approach to assessing a player?

I wasn't referring to Poole specifically, but more in the sense that, in the beginning of the off-season, you wanted to trade all the draft picks and go all in for veteran help.

And now you did a complete 180, just reading your posts makes that clear.

Obviously there's no problem with that, you're entitled to your opinion and, as a member of the forum, has a right to express them too.

I just find it funny that you change stances very frequently. But I don't think it's bad per se, just the way you are.

Cheers.

Poole was awful last night. I think we should trade him!

[Sleepy51]

I think we are in a solid position.

PG - Steph/poole
SG - Klay/poole
SF - Wiggs/OPJ
PF - Dray/OPJ
C - Looney/Bjeli/Wiseman

Lee, Bradley, Iggy

Arguably every position SL and bench can hold their own two deep every game and then some except for center, and we have yet to see what second year wiseman can do. And even then both looney and bjeli are serviceable. Moody and Kuminga can develop in g-league. I think if wiseman takes a leap and vindicates the FO a bit on that pick, we dont have much to complain about once klay gets up to speed. Trying to be optimistic, and I dont think its too unreasonable to hope klay and wiseman can be positives this year.

Solid position to do what?

Again, I’m not skeptical. I think we are in a solid position to be a home seed and/or reach the finals by next year. To me that will be achieving contention objective.

I am just really curious what standard everyone else is willing to hold the front office to in terms of measuring success.

How come nobody wants to say where the goalposts sit (on either side of this debate)?

I think this is a top 4 team in the west, with a shot to win the title (barring injury). I do think if we aren't a top 4 seed or at least in that tier, not jumbled in the mid tier then it's a failure that they didn't capitalize on the rookies to actually get Curry help. But I think he's got enough help for him to compete.

Top 4 seed this year? That’s a pretty high bar to me and probably requires everything in question to break our way and on the most optimistic timetable but I appreciate the willingness to set a bar.

[Onus]

Solid position to do what?

Again, I’m not skeptical. I think we are in a solid position to be a home seed and/or reach the finals by next year. To me that will be achieving contention objective.

I am just really curious what standard everyone else is willing to hold the front office to in terms of measuring success.

How come nobody wants to say where the goalposts sit (on either side of this debate)?

I think this is a top 4 team in the west, with a shot to win the title (barring injury). I do think if we aren't a top 4 seed or at least in that tier, not jumbled in the mid tier then it's a failure that they didn't capitalize on the rookies to actually get Curry help. But I think he's got enough help for him to compete.

Top 4 seed this year? That’s a pretty high bar to me and probably requires everything in question to break our way and on the most optimistic timetable but I appreciate the willingness to set a bar.

The only teams in the west I assume will have a better record than us is Utah and Phoenix. After that you got Denver without Murray, an old Lakers team, and the Clippers without Kawhi. Yea I really think if we're healthy we should be a top 4 team and this includes not expecting anything from Klay either.

Last year I thought we should've made the playoffs and that was my expectations to start the year and I'm positive we would have if we didn't prioritize an half assed attempt at development. Catering to Oubre and not having him come off the bench at all was a horrible attempt at keeping him happy, when he wasn't even in our plans for the next year. Featuring Wiseman when he had no clue what he was doing and trying to run offense through him when that wouldn't be his role if we were trying to contend. It was just a horrible no direction start of the year for the coaching staff. And we still almost made the playoffs.

I feel alot better about this team and I thought last year we should've been in the same tier as Dallas and Portland. I like this team even better than last year so we should be above that mid-tier this year.

[ShootersShoot]

I think we are in a solid position.

PG - Steph/poole
SG - Klay/poole
SF - Wiggs/OPJ
PF - Dray/OPJ
C - Looney/Bjeli/Wiseman

Lee, Bradley, Iggy

Arguably every position SL and bench can hold their own two deep every game and then some except for center, and we have yet to see what second year wiseman can do. And even then both looney and bjeli are serviceable. Moody and Kuminga can develop in g-league. I think if wiseman takes a leap and vindicates the FO a bit on that pick, we dont have much to complain about once klay gets up to speed. Trying to be optimistic, and I dont think its too unreasonable to hope klay and wiseman can be positives this year.

Solid position to do what?

Again, I’m not skeptical. I think we are in a solid position to be a home seed and/or reach the finals by next year. To me that will be achieving contention objective.

I am just really curious what standard everyone else is willing to hold the front office to in terms of measuring success.

How come nobody wants to say where the goalposts sit (on either side of this debate)?

Solid position as in not too many holes overall, HOF caliber vets, with lottery picked youth developing, and a young guy looking ready to break out in poole. Obviously there's unknowns like how the youth develops, if poole is fools gold, and klay's return. Looking at the depth chart, is there really an area where I would be terribly concerned about going into the season? No, and that to me is solid. Maybe we could use a true backup point guard, but with the way poole is playing that may not be necessary.

As for the barometer for the FO, obviously the biggest one is development of the young players. If these guys dont pan out, it will look really bad for the guys making the personnel decisions. On paper, we are in a solid position. How it plays out, is unknown.

And by solid position, by no means does that mean contenders for the forseeable future. Way too many question marks for that.

[floppymoose]

I don't really have goalposts in terms of expected seed or championship. So much happens. Curry can get hurt for a year, etc. I just judge by how the front office plays the hand they are dealt each season. In the Cohan era, they played it horribly most years. In the Lacob era it's been good most years.

[Sleepy51]

I think we are in a solid position.

PG - Steph/poole
SG - Klay/poole
SF - Wiggs/OPJ
PF - Dray/OPJ
C - Looney/Bjeli/Wiseman

Lee, Bradley, Iggy

Arguably every position SL and bench can hold their own two deep every game and then some except for center, and we have yet to see what second year wiseman can do. And even then both looney and bjeli are serviceable. Moody and Kuminga can develop in g-league. I think if wiseman takes a leap and vindicates the FO a bit on that pick, we dont have much to complain about once klay gets up to speed. Trying to be optimistic, and I dont think its too unreasonable to hope klay and wiseman can be positives this year.

Solid position to do what?

Again, I’m not skeptical. I think we are in a solid position to be a home seed and/or reach the finals by next year. To me that will be achieving contention objective.

I am just really curious what standard everyone else is willing to hold the front office to in terms of measuring success.

How come nobody wants to say where the goalposts sit (on either side of this debate)?

Solid position as in not too many holes overall, HOF caliber vets, with lottery picked youth developing, and a young guy looking ready to break out in poole. Obviously there's unknowns like how the youth develops, if poole is fools gold, and klay's return. Looking at the depth chart, is there really an area where I would be terribly concerned about going into the season? No, and that to me is solid. Maybe we could use a true backup point guard, but with the way poole is playing that may not be necessary.

As for the barometer for the FO, obviously the biggest one is development of the young players. If these guys dont pan out, it will look really bad for the guys making the personnel decisions. On paper, we are in a solid position. How it plays out, is unknown.

And by solid position, by no means does that mean contenders for the forseeable future. Way too many question marks for that.

The front office has said they can succeed at a two track strategy. I think that defining success or failure in those two tracks is important. It doesn’t require you making a prediction, just setting a standard for what does or doesn’t qualify as “crushing it”

I think floppy’s position of “ way better than Cohan” is a softball. They moved the team out of Oakland ostensibly to have the Amex black card necessary to compete at all costs. I think we’re across the rubicon from “A great time out” being a result worthy of the increased price of attendance.

It’s actually why I have been in favor of their two track strategy. I don’t think that they can or should accept getting another Curry chip and burning the place to the ground to do it. I don’t think this is a Kobiyashi Maru situation. I do believe they can and should max out Curry’s peak. And for me they also need to continue to win meaningfully after Curry declines. I feel that they owe us that. But I also feel like I have a reasonable barometer for what I consider delivering on promises made as I laid out above.

[Onus]

Solid position to do what?

Again, I’m not skeptical. I think we are in a solid position to be a home seed and/or reach the finals by next year. To me that will be achieving contention objective.

I am just really curious what standard everyone else is willing to hold the front office to in terms of measuring success.

How come nobody wants to say where the goalposts sit (on either side of this debate)?

Solid position as in not too many holes overall, HOF caliber vets, with lottery picked youth developing, and a young guy looking ready to break out in poole. Obviously there's unknowns like how the youth develops, if poole is fools gold, and klay's return. Looking at the depth chart, is there really an area where I would be terribly concerned about going into the season? No, and that to me is solid. Maybe we could use a true backup point guard, but with the way poole is playing that may not be necessary.

As for the barometer for the FO, obviously the biggest one is development of the young players. If these guys dont pan out, it will look really bad for the guys making the personnel decisions. On paper, we are in a solid position. How it plays out, is unknown.

And by solid position, by no means does that mean contenders for the forseeable future. Way too many question marks for that.

The front office has said they can succeed at a two track strategy. I think that defining success or failure in those two tracks is important. It doesn’t require you making a prediction, just setting a standard for what does or doesn’t qualify as “crushing it”

I think floppy’s position of “ way better than Cohan” is a softball. They moved the team out of Oakland ostensibly to have the Amex black card necessary to compete at all costs. I think we’re across the rubicon from “A great time out” being a result worthy of the increased price of attendance.

It’s actually why I have been in favor of their two track strategy. I don’t think that they can or should accept getting another Curry chip and burning the place to the ground to do it. I don’t think this is a Kobiyashi Maru situation. I do believe they can and should max out Curry’s peak. And for me they also need to continue to win meaningfully after Curry declines. I feel that they owe us that. But I also feel like I have a reasonable barometer for what I consider delivering on promises made as I laid out above.

To this point, you’re not maximizing currys timeline if we aren’t a top 4ish team which is why top 4 should be the goal.

[Sleepy51]

Solid position as in not too many holes overall, HOF caliber vets, with lottery picked youth developing, and a young guy looking ready to break out in poole. Obviously there's unknowns like how the youth develops, if poole is fools gold, and klay's return. Looking at the depth chart, is there really an area where I would be terribly concerned about going into the season? No, and that to me is solid. Maybe we could use a true backup point guard, but with the way poole is playing that may not be necessary.

As for the barometer for the FO, obviously the biggest one is development of the young players. If these guys dont pan out, it will look really bad for the guys making the personnel decisions. On paper, we are in a solid position. How it plays out, is unknown.

And by solid position, by no means does that mean contenders for the forseeable future. Way too many question marks for that.

The front office has said they can succeed at a two track strategy. I think that defining success or failure in those two tracks is important. It doesn’t require you making a prediction, just setting a standard for what does or doesn’t qualify as “crushing it”

I think floppy’s position of “ way better than Cohan” is a softball. They moved the team out of Oakland ostensibly to have the Amex black card necessary to compete at all costs. I think we’re across the rubicon from “A great time out” being a result worthy of the increased price of attendance.

It’s actually why I have been in favor of their two track strategy. I don’t think that they can or should accept getting another Curry chip and burning the place to the ground to do it. I don’t think this is a Kobiyashi Maru situation. I do believe they can and should max out Curry’s peak. And for me they also need to continue to win meaningfully after Curry declines. I feel that they owe us that. But I also feel like I have a reasonable barometer for what I consider delivering on promises made as I laid out above.

To this point, you’re not maximizing currys timeline if we aren’t a top 4ish team which is why top 4 should be the goal.

I think they can be top 4 next year. I do not believe that to be an achievable goal this year. Maximizing Curry doesn't necessarily mean selling out for this year. Klay is not going to be 100% until too late in the schedule to make this a top 4 roster (if at all.) I don't think the assets are there this year to get to top 4 with or without a trade.

NEXT year, with Wiggins as an expiring and the Rookies having a year of development our young assets should increase in value, on court or in trade. that increase in asset value combined with Wiggings salary number makes us a VERY compelling trade partner at this deadline or in the offseason. That's where I think the rubber hits the road. Maximizing Curry "this year" at the expense of asset appreciation and the best possible chance to not just contend, but to build another champion probably takes another offseason. Next year there should be no excuse for failing to achieve in the top 4.

A lot of the "Maximize Curry" argument has been rooted in the fallacy that a contender can be built immediately if they would just dump all the assets into a trade for player _____. Beal? Doesn't want out and wouldn't be able to play half the games. Simmons? Draymond lite with a glass jaw. Lilliar (intriguing, but still hasn't asked out and highly duplicative of Curry.)

The increase in value of Kuminga and Wiseman after a year of quality development (on court or in trade) puts us in a stronger position next year. The "cost" of rushing isn't just about the either/or of Win Curry a chip or waste his remaining prime to build a contender way down the road. It could be a matter of rushing into an inferior deal this year, vs winning a compelling deal/roster next year.