Moderator: ijspeelman
Seeing how he has none of Ginobili's skills, you'd be correct.Revenged25 wrote:JonFromVA wrote:Revenged25 wrote:
I would say he would, not sure about jbk.
If he's playing like a starter I don't see a problem paying him like one ... so is he more Ginobli or Clarkson? I suppose jbk is implying the latter.
I think he's more Ginobli, though I agree with you that jbk think he's closer to Clarkson.
toooskies wrote:Zach Lowe mentioned Sexton in comparison to Jason Terry in a recent article and that's probably reasonable.
toooskies wrote:Zach Lowe mentioned Sexton in comparison to Jason Terry in a recent article and that's probably reasonable.
toooskies wrote:As long as we're making ridiculous comparisons, aside from the impact stats Sexton is just a few assists away from looking like Derrick Rose's early career. Suffice it to say that the context matters.
Revenged25 wrote:toooskies wrote:As long as we're making ridiculous comparisons, aside from the impact stats Sexton is just a few assists away from looking like Derrick Rose's early career. Suffice it to say that the context matters.
I mean I've said that if Sexton could find a system where he could play in a role similar to pre-injury Derrick Rose he'd excel. Granted he's not as good as Rose so it'll be a lesser version, but they play very similar IMO.
LivingLegend wrote:Revenged25 wrote:toooskies wrote:As long as we're making ridiculous comparisons, aside from the impact stats Sexton is just a few assists away from looking like Derrick Rose's early career. Suffice it to say that the context matters.
I mean I've said that if Sexton could find a system where he could play in a role similar to pre-injury Derrick Rose he'd excel. Granted he's not as good as Rose so it'll be a lesser version, but they play very similar IMO.
Heres the thing though. Pre- Injury Derek rose was a top 5 player in the NBA and a MVP who took his team multiple rounds into the playoffs. Sexton has led the Cavs to the worst record in the NBA over a 3 year time period.
I understand they are both PGs who are a bit uncomfortable shooting, but Roses dynamic ability in the open court/transition combined with his ability to finish at an elite level driving the ball to the rim from any angle is quite literally 10x+ better than Sextons.
Sexton is in his 4th year and still leads the NBA in 'getting blocked' at the rim because he is not at all the dynamic finisher Rose was.
JonFromVA wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Revenged25 wrote:
I mean I've said that if Sexton could find a system where he could play in a role similar to pre-injury Derrick Rose he'd excel. Granted he's not as good as Rose so it'll be a lesser version, but they play very similar IMO.
Heres the thing though. Pre- Injury Derek rose was a top 5 player in the NBA and a MVP who took his team multiple rounds into the playoffs. Sexton has led the Cavs to the worst record in the NBA over a 3 year time period.
I understand they are both PGs who are a bit uncomfortable shooting, but Roses dynamic ability in the open court/transition combined with his ability to finish at an elite level driving the ball to the rim from any angle is quite literally 10x+ better than Sextons.
Sexton is in his 4th year and still leads the NBA in 'getting blocked' at the rim because he is not at all the dynamic finisher Rose was.
Rose had more to work with, but it's also about instincts ... if a player can read the defense, they will know ahead of time what they can get away with and if they know their opponents tendencies they will know what to expect and can make the right finish.
Both Collin and Darius could use some more finishing techniques so they don't have to go with the floater as often. Garland has been working on it. Collin should be too. But spacing is important as well.
When the Cavs focused on stopping Rose in the playoffs in 2010, we beat the Bulls 4-1 and held his TS% under 0.500
What much pieces? Go look at Butler's shooting numbers his first couple years. Deng was always a bad shooter. I know we're not talking about Noah or Taj Gibson. There's a reason they were an early out in the post season.Revenged25 wrote:JonFromVA wrote:LivingLegend wrote:
Heres the thing though. Pre- Injury Derek rose was a top 5 player in the NBA and a MVP who took his team multiple rounds into the playoffs. Sexton has led the Cavs to the worst record in the NBA over a 3 year time period.
I understand they are both PGs who are a bit uncomfortable shooting, but Roses dynamic ability in the open court/transition combined with his ability to finish at an elite level driving the ball to the rim from any angle is quite literally 10x+ better than Sextons.
Sexton is in his 4th year and still leads the NBA in 'getting blocked' at the rim because he is not at all the dynamic finisher Rose was.
Rose had more to work with, but it's also about instincts ... if a player can read the defense, they will know ahead of time what they can get away with and if they know their opponents tendencies they will know what to expect and can make the right finish.
Both Collin and Darius could use some more finishing techniques so they don't have to go with the floater as often. Garland has been working on it. Collin should be too. But spacing is important as well.
When the Cavs focused on stopping Rose in the playoffs in 2010, we beat the Bulls 4-1 and held his TS% under 0.500
Exactly this. Rose had so much better pieces to build around, not players meant to accentuate a specific player's strengths, not to mention Rose has a better feel for the game which is why Collin would be a Rose-lite version.
jbk1234 wrote:What much pieces? Go look at Butler's shooting numbers his first couple years. Deng was always a bad shooter. I know we're not talking about Noah or Taj Gibson. There's a reason they were an early out in the post season.Revenged25 wrote:JonFromVA wrote:
Rose had more to work with, but it's also about instincts ... if a player can read the defense, they will know ahead of time what they can get away with and if they know their opponents tendencies they will know what to expect and can make the right finish.
Both Collin and Darius could use some more finishing techniques so they don't have to go with the floater as often. Garland has been working on it. Collin should be too. But spacing is important as well.
When the Cavs focused on stopping Rose in the playoffs in 2010, we beat the Bulls 4-1 and held his TS% under 0.500
Exactly this. Rose had so much better pieces to build around, not players meant to accentuate a specific player's strengths, not to mention Rose has a better feel for the game which is why Collin would be a Rose-lite version.
Revenged25 wrote:JonFromVA wrote:LivingLegend wrote:
Heres the thing though. Pre- Injury Derek rose was a top 5 player in the NBA and a MVP who took his team multiple rounds into the playoffs. Sexton has led the Cavs to the worst record in the NBA over a 3 year time period.
I understand they are both PGs who are a bit uncomfortable shooting, but Roses dynamic ability in the open court/transition combined with his ability to finish at an elite level driving the ball to the rim from any angle is quite literally 10x+ better than Sextons.
Sexton is in his 4th year and still leads the NBA in 'getting blocked' at the rim because he is not at all the dynamic finisher Rose was.
Rose had more to work with, but it's also about instincts ... if a player can read the defense, they will know ahead of time what they can get away with and if they know their opponents tendencies they will know what to expect and can make the right finish.
Both Collin and Darius could use some more finishing techniques so they don't have to go with the floater as often. Garland has been working on it. Collin should be too. But spacing is important as well.
When the Cavs focused on stopping Rose in the playoffs in 2010, we beat the Bulls 4-1 and held his TS% under 0.500
Exactly this. Rose had so much better pieces to build around, not players meant to accentuate a specific player's strengths, not to mention Rose has a better feel for the game which is why Collin would be a Rose-lite version.
I think he's a pure scorer, he has a very strong scorer's instinct, and he's a very instinctive player. There are little things he could do to make his game more well rounded, but he primarily relies on his speed to get by his defender and he's so fast that he commits pretty early on in the play. All of that has value. He has a role. But you don't build *around* that player. He accepts the role that's best for the team, or not.LivingLegend wrote:Revenged25 wrote:JonFromVA wrote:
Rose had more to work with, but it's also about instincts ... if a player can read the defense, they will know ahead of time what they can get away with and if they know their opponents tendencies they will know what to expect and can make the right finish.
Both Collin and Darius could use some more finishing techniques so they don't have to go with the floater as often. Garland has been working on it. Collin should be too. But spacing is important as well.
When the Cavs focused on stopping Rose in the playoffs in 2010, we beat the Bulls 4-1 and held his TS% under 0.500
Exactly this. Rose had so much better pieces to build around, not players meant to accentuate a specific player's strengths, not to mention Rose has a better feel for the game which is why Collin would be a Rose-lite version.
I think thats my biggest gripe with Sexton is that he still doesnt have that feel for the game about when to do this, or where to do that. Everything just feels forced with him and I guess thats where my belief that he still overthinks on the court and doesnt play fluid at all comes from.
The amount of times he gets blocked at this rim still tells me all that I need to know about his 'BBIQ' or 'feel' for the game. He just never seems to be 1 step ahead of the defense. If he cant show that level of improvement this year I truly think it is the difference in paying him 120M as a longterm starter and 90M as a borderline starter that can be traded.
jbk1234 wrote:I think he's a pure scorer, he has a very strong scorer's instinct, and he's a very instinctive player. There are little things he could do to make his game more well rounded, but he primarily relies on his speed to get by his defender and he's so fast that he commits pretty early on in the play. All of that has value. He has a role. But you don't build *around* that player. He accepts the role that's best for the team, or not.LivingLegend wrote:Revenged25 wrote:
Exactly this. Rose had so much better pieces to build around, not players meant to accentuate a specific player's strengths, not to mention Rose has a better feel for the game which is why Collin would be a Rose-lite version.
I think thats my biggest gripe with Sexton is that he still doesnt have that feel for the game about when to do this, or where to do that. Everything just feels forced with him and I guess thats where my belief that he still overthinks on the court and doesnt play fluid at all comes from.
The amount of times he gets blocked at this rim still tells me all that I need to know about his 'BBIQ' or 'feel' for the game. He just never seems to be 1 step ahead of the defense. If he cant show that level of improvement this year I truly think it is the difference in paying him 120M as a longterm starter and 90M as a borderline starter that can be traded.
JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:I think he's a pure scorer, he has a very strong scorer's instinct, and he's a very instinctive player. There are little things he could do to make his game more well rounded, but he primarily relies on his speed to get by his defender and he's so fast that he commits pretty early on in the play. All of that has value. He has a role. But you don't build *around* that player. He accepts the role that's best for the team, or not.LivingLegend wrote:
I think thats my biggest gripe with Sexton is that he still doesnt have that feel for the game about when to do this, or where to do that. Everything just feels forced with him and I guess thats where my belief that he still overthinks on the court and doesnt play fluid at all comes from.
The amount of times he gets blocked at this rim still tells me all that I need to know about his 'BBIQ' or 'feel' for the game. He just never seems to be 1 step ahead of the defense. If he cant show that level of improvement this year I truly think it is the difference in paying him 120M as a longterm starter and 90M as a borderline starter that can be traded.
Unless of course he grows ...
Anything is possible, but at some point, you get paid to assess probabilities. There's a cost that accompanies keeping him in the starting unit while you're waiting for growth that may, or may not, materialize. Other starters need to develop and/or grow. At some point, the team needs to run something that's a lot closer to an actual NBA offense than what we've been witness to over the last three years.JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:I think he's a pure scorer, he has a very strong scorer's instinct, and he's a very instinctive player. There are little things he could do to make his game more well rounded, but he primarily relies on his speed to get by his defender and he's so fast that he commits pretty early on in the play. All of that has value. He has a role. But you don't build *around* that player. He accepts the role that's best for the team, or not.LivingLegend wrote:
I think thats my biggest gripe with Sexton is that he still doesnt have that feel for the game about when to do this, or where to do that. Everything just feels forced with him and I guess thats where my belief that he still overthinks on the court and doesnt play fluid at all comes from.
The amount of times he gets blocked at this rim still tells me all that I need to know about his 'BBIQ' or 'feel' for the game. He just never seems to be 1 step ahead of the defense. If he cant show that level of improvement this year I truly think it is the difference in paying him 120M as a longterm starter and 90M as a borderline starter that can be traded.
Unless of course he grows ...
