If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade)

[Prokorov]

And also, if nurses and teachers lose their jobs because they are antivaxxers that value conspiracy theory and facebook memes over actual science, they probably don't need to be in those jobs to begin with.

losing their job? sure.

But if im a female nurse and i lose my job cause im not Vaccinated, but the mail officer who works security doesnt lose his and is allowed in the same building, that is BS>

If im a nurse and i lose my job, thats one thing. if i lose my pension, my tenure which i accumulated for years prior to the pandemic, thats bull.

If im a nurse, and my religion states im not to be vaccinated, and you force me to go against my religion to keep my job, with no exemption process, that is bs.

People are not just fighting about keeping their jobs. hell most can go over the hudson and work. Many are being stripped of alot more, and many have issue with the law not being applied/enforced equally across gender and race.

If you are a nurse, directly in contact with several patients daily, cannot have the common decency to get vaccinated to protect your patients, and yourself, yes, you deserve to lose your job.

What on earth are you defending here?

I'm getting at the bolded:

Preventing someone from working because they pose a risk makes perfect sense for a mandate.

Stripping/allowing their employer to strip them of their tenure/pension is complete nonsesne. That was earned over several years and is entitled to them. it was earned prior to the pandemic.

Second was about the Mandate not being applied equally... for instance:

Cops (Majority = Male, White)
Fireman (Majority = Male, White)
Nurses (Majority - Female)
Teachers (Majority = Female)
Security Guards (Majority = Black, Male)

Cops/Fireman are currently exempt from the mandate. Nurses/Teachers/Security guards are not. If women and minorities are going to lose their jobs for not being vaccinated, so should white men... especially white men who work in government positions (cops/fireman) in government buildings (Police/Firestations) and whom are all first responders

As I have stated numerous times, There are mandates that make sense, the NYC mandate is awful.

Kyrie could also claim it is kind of BS that Beal (uncavvincated) can play in barclays as a visitor but he cant as a net. Again if its about safety beal shouldnt be allowed to play either.

The mandate is over reaching, Bias (religiously, racially, and sexist) and is applied without logic when it comes to visitors (who we should be extra strict on, people coming from states with no mandates who are unvaxxed pose more risk then those in states with mandates

[Prokorov]

Mandates to protect public health and safety are 100% legal. That was the point. No one is being thrown in prison for it, but no one should be guaranteed employment or entertainment in a public setting if they can't abide by health and safety protocols. Your employer doesn't have to tolerate you if you're not abiding by rules put in place to protect public health. Your personal freedoms are not greater than the greater good.

You may think its crap, but it's being done to compel people to do the right thing, and its working because the vaccination rates are going up in NYC.

And again...if someone is an antivaxxer and can no longer be a nurse or a teacher, good. Who the hell wants an antivaxxer teaching children or tending to patients? It's disgusting.

re: Cops....if they want to die, thats on them. Covid is ravaging NYC cops. The police union is refusing a mandate while their members die. Doesn't seem smart to me.

In other words what MDB is saying -" you have a car, you can do whatever you want with it until it's parked in your private parking area. Once you decide to drive it on the streets, you have to have DL, insurance, registration etc. Those rules being enforced for reasons ".

I can't believe we as adults are even having this discussion. Mandates are literally apart of life. Always have been. Only til now when it asks antivax people to not be selfish ass holes does it become an issue.

I'm not saying mandates shouldn't exsist. I think they should and I think all 50 states should impose them.

What I am saying is, the NYC mandate is complete garbage, over reaching, inconsistent, and arguably biased in many ways (probably unintentional, but none the less biased).

As far as your stance on cops, it is a bit inconsistent... you are pissed at Kyrie because he is "endangering others" but are fine with cops not being vaccinated yet they interact with the public a ton more then Kyrie does (especially the sick.wounded public as 1st responders)

[Prokorov]

CBA talks are greater than a public health crisis?

Dude, don't be dense, that is not at all what I said, don't be putting words in my mouth. You're talking about blackballed from the league, I'm talking from league's perspective. Kyrie is not restricted from a league mandate, he's restricted because of local city law.

Kyrie is the one garnering negative national media attention for being an antivaxxer and wanting to be the voice of antivaxxers. From the league's perspective, you think Simmons being a disgruntled teammate is worse than what Kyrie is doing right now?

1) Kyrie has no control over what the media says, especially a media who has a vendetta against him. There is not much more he can do to communicate his stance is NOT Anti-Vaxx. He leaked it to the 2 most respected journalists in the business (Woj/Shams) and went live in front of 20+ million viewers and stated in no uncertain terms about 6 times.

2) Yes, for the NBA, the simmons thing is worse. They have been under a ton of fire for players under contract not just demanding out but picking their destination and leaving their old franchise in shambles. The Harden things last year was an awful look. The Simmons thing is too. Anytime a player refuses to play its worse then a player being ineligible to play.

[Prokorov]

LEt me get this straight....

Simmons refuse to join his team, even though he is allowed to. trashes his teammates, says he will never play their again and his teammates hate him.

Kyrie cant join the team by law, expresses he wants to play, never dissed a teammate, and his teammates support him.

Yet somehow Kyrie caused more Chaos?

When Simmons ends up being the topic of discussion on CNN for negative reasons like Kyrie was last night, wake me up.

At least Simmons and the Sixers are finding a way forward, however ugly things got.

Meanwhile, Kyrie's in the driver's seat to pursue his second championship with a stacked roster, and instead he's taking a completely pointless stand, negatively impacting anyone foolish enough to follow him, and picking up a massive paycheck to do squat, while most people in the States are essentially wage slaves living in fraught financial circumstances.

The least he could in this situation is to donate a good chunk of his bogus salary to some kind of safety net charity, which would actually help people he's theoretically 'standing up for.'

Guy's such a damn tool.

All of the salary Kyrie is garnished (potentially 17 million will go to a charity of his choice (among those on the leagues approved list). That is quite a donation, no? Additionally, he donates a ton of money even when he is on the court earning it, and does it out of kindness, not for publicity (most of it never gets out/isnt reported on/we dont find out until years late)

Call Kyrie what you want, but the dude gives back in a big way.

[Prokorov]

I wont be surprised if Kyrie gets bored and decides get vaccinated in February or some ****.

No sense in trading him for nothing. No interest in Simmons at all. Hes unplayable in the playoffs.

I'm hoping once real games start, he decides to come back...

That said, its hard to know, since there are more avenues to a return then just getting vaccinated. The mandate will eventually end/be lifted/be amended. He may persue a religious exemption. Or he may just be like "this is gods plan" and wait out the year. its impossible to know. He seems to think his career will continue and his championship chase will continue from his instagram which gives me some cautious optimism he will be back, although im less optimistic now it will be via vaccine.

To me the biggest issue is Tsai. He has hated Kyrie since early in year 1, because Kyrie called him out for the morey/china thing and refused to play in china (with other nets behind him... temple being one). It is covered in one of the first chapters of the book. It was stated the decision to have kyrie not play part time was Marks/Tsai's decision, but my guess is its Tsai mostly. Marks knows he doesnt need kyrie all year, just for the playoffs. Marks/Nets FO knows how stars work and they have accommodated all of them all last year. its about a ring, Marks know no trade gives them a better shot then kyrie does and id think would more likely change things up next year.

all speculation on my part, but thats how i see it

[Prokorov]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

so KD and Harden are done with him.

imagine that? so all that stuff about "empowerment" and off the court stuff mattering more went right out of the window once Kyrie went full blown crazy town last night.

What part of the video you said you didnt watch was crazytown?

Harden/KD have stated constantly they support them. but i know you think they are liars/fake

[Prokorov]

I wont be surprised if Kyrie gets bored and decides get vaccinated in February or some ****.

No sense in trading him for nothing. No interest in Simmons at all. Hes unplayable in the playoffs.

yea, i feel the same way. it will be an anti-climactic conclusion and Kyrie will come in with fresh legs, just in time to jumpstart the teams success. He will be called a hero

Are you still here? you said you were leaving like 6 times?

200 posts, account less then a month old with half the posts trashing kyrie.

kick rocks you troll.

[Ecmic]

1) "my body my choice" is not some insane concept, regardless of if you agree or not.

I get where you’re coming from when approaching this issue from a certain very specific angle, but “my body, my choice” is a non-sequitur here, and moreover it is heuristic, and therefore it’s necessary for guys like Kyrie to examine - and elucidate - the calculus of this specific pandemic as he sees it, and why “my body my choice” trumps other social consideration.

I haven’t seen him do this yet.

Agree, it would be alot easier to discuss the validity/hypocrisy of his stance if he gave us more insight into it...

I can see why he wouldn't though, it doesn't really help. anything he says that makes sense is going to be called "spin" or a "lie" and anything that doesnt is just going to get mocked. And honestly, he doesnt really owe that to anyone.

He’s going to find it difficult to be an effective voice for the voiceless.

[gigantes]

When Simmons ends up being the topic of discussion on CNN for negative reasons like Kyrie was last night, wake me up.

At least Simmons and the Sixers are finding a way forward, however ugly things got.

Meanwhile, Kyrie's in the driver's seat to pursue his second championship with a stacked roster, and instead he's taking a completely pointless stand, negatively impacting anyone foolish enough to follow him, and picking up a massive paycheck to do squat, while most people in the States are essentially wage slaves living in fraught financial circumstances.

The least he could in this situation is to donate a good chunk of his bogus salary to some kind of safety net charity, which would actually help people he's theoretically 'standing up for.'

Guy's such a damn tool.

All of the salary Kyrie is garnished (potentially 17 million will go to a charity of his choice (among those on the leagues approved list). That is quite a donation, no?

Indeed!

Source...?

[Prokorov]

I get where you’re coming from when approaching this issue from a certain very specific angle, but “my body, my choice” is a non-sequitur here, and moreover it is heuristic, and therefore it’s necessary for guys like Kyrie to examine - and elucidate - the calculus of this specific pandemic as he sees it, and why “my body my choice” trumps other social consideration.

I haven’t seen him do this yet.

Agree, it would be alot easier to discuss the validity/hypocrisy of his stance if he gave us more insight into it...

I can see why he wouldn't though, it doesn't really help. anything he says that makes sense is going to be called "spin" or a "lie" and anything that doesnt is just going to get mocked. And honestly, he doesnt really owe that to anyone.

He’s going to find it difficult to be an effective voice for the voiceless.

I agree. I think there are times where him sitting out really brings attention to an issue and can have an impact... but that is for issues most people arent looking it. this is already an enormous issues millions of new yorkers are challenging, its in court, its in the news. he isnt adding really anything of value to "the cause" just by sitting out in solidarity without being really specific about his issues.

His money/resources would have a bigger impact... we dont know if he is also doing that, we usually dont hear about his charitable stuff, at least not right away.

I think the idea he is helping in that manners is way off.

[Prokorov]

At least Simmons and the Sixers are finding a way forward, however ugly things got.

Meanwhile, Kyrie's in the driver's seat to pursue his second championship with a stacked roster, and instead he's taking a completely pointless stand, negatively impacting anyone foolish enough to follow him, and picking up a massive paycheck to do squat, while most people in the States are essentially wage slaves living in fraught financial circumstances.

The least he could in this situation is to donate a good chunk of his bogus salary to some kind of safety net charity, which would actually help people he's theoretically 'standing up for.'

Guy's such a damn tool.

All of the salary Kyrie is garnished (potentially 17 million will go to a charity of his choice (among those on the leagues approved list). That is quite a donation, no?

Indeed!

Source...?

https://money.cnn.com/2017/02/24/news/nba-fines-charity/index.html

Half goes to players union charities, half goes to NBA cares charities.

[gigantes]

All of the salary Kyrie is garnished (potentially 17 million will go to a charity of his choice (among those on the leagues approved list). That is quite a donation, no?

Indeed!

Source...?

https://money.cnn.com/2017/02/24/news/nba-fines-charity/index.html

Half goes to players union charities, half goes to NBA cares charities.

Kyrie's not being FINED though, Proky.

He's being de-listed for away games, with full salary paid. Not suspended either, which would be a CBA issue.

No, Kyrie's being paid to be a team-sabotaging-ahole, collecting millions of dollars while he does nothing at all but spew BS, meanwhile hoarding his bank acct while millions suffer for a variety of reasons, lots of them CV-19-related.

F-ck Kyrie's horrible, stoopid, stoopid choices in life.

[Prokorov]

Indeed!

Source...?

https://money.cnn.com/2017/02/24/news/nba-fines-charity/index.html

Half goes to players union charities, half goes to NBA cares charities.

Kyrie's not being FINED though, Proky.

He's being de-listed for away games, with full salary paid. Not suspended either, which would be a CBA issue.

No, Kyrie's being paid to be a team-sabotaging-ahole, collecting millions of dollars while he does nothing at all but spew BS, meanwhile hoarding his bank acct while millions suffer for a variety of reasons, lots of them CV-19-related.

F-ck Kyrie's horrible, stoopid, stoopid choices in life.

Kyrie wont be played for home games. It wasnt super clear, but it is being assumed by many those funds will be treated as fines. He WILL be paid for away games, and he should since its the teams decision for him not toplay those.

Calling him out for "hoarding his money while other suffer" is nonsense. his track record of genericity is beyond reproach. He is one of the most chartiable players in sports.

[MrDollarBills]

https://money.cnn.com/2017/02/24/news/nba-fines-charity/index.html

Half goes to players union charities, half goes to NBA cares charities.

Kyrie's not being FINED though, Proky.

He's being de-listed for away games, with full salary paid. Not suspended either, which would be a CBA issue.

No, Kyrie's being paid to be a team-sabotaging-ahole, collecting millions of dollars while he does nothing at all but spew BS, meanwhile hoarding his bank acct while millions suffer for a variety of reasons, lots of them CV-19-related.

F-ck Kyrie's horrible, stoopid, stoopid choices in life.

Kyrie wont be played for home games. It wasnt super clear, but it is being assumed by many those funds will be treated as fines. He WILL be paid for away games, and he should since its the teams decision for him not toplay those.

Calling him out for "hoarding his money while other suffer" is nonsense. his track record of genericity is beyond reproach. He is one of the most chartiable players in sports.

I think we can vehemently disagree about the vaccination issue and his stance, but we can't just suddenly call him a money hoarder when he has done tremendous things for people without saying a word.

Do I disagree with what he's doing? Yes. Does that make him a bad human being overall? Absolutely not.

[Prokorov]

Kyrie's not being FINED though, Proky.

He's being de-listed for away games, with full salary paid. Not suspended either, which would be a CBA issue.

No, Kyrie's being paid to be a team-sabotaging-ahole, collecting millions of dollars while he does nothing at all but spew BS, meanwhile hoarding his bank acct while millions suffer for a variety of reasons, lots of them CV-19-related.

F-ck Kyrie's horrible, stoopid, stoopid choices in life.

Kyrie wont be played for home games. It wasnt super clear, but it is being assumed by many those funds will be treated as fines. He WILL be paid for away games, and he should since its the teams decision for him not toplay those.

Calling him out for "hoarding his money while other suffer" is nonsense. his track record of genericity is beyond reproach. He is one of the most chartiable players in sports.

I think we can vehemently disagree about the vaccination issue and his stance, but we can't just suddenly call him a money hoarder when he has done tremendous things for people without saying a word.

Do I disagree with what he's doing? Yes. Does that make him a bad human being overall? Absolutely not.

This. him being a dolt about the vaccine doesnt change who he is with other things

[Hello Brooklyn]

I wont be surprised if Kyrie gets bored and decides get vaccinated in February or some ****.

No sense in trading him for nothing. No interest in Simmons at all. Hes unplayable in the playoffs.

I'm hoping once real games start, he decides to come back...

That said, its hard to know, since there are more avenues to a return then just getting vaccinated. The mandate will eventually end/be lifted/be amended. He may persue a religious exemption. Or he may just be like "this is gods plan" and wait out the year. its impossible to know. He seems to think his career will continue and his championship chase will continue from his instagram which gives me some cautious optimism he will be back, although im less optimistic now it will be via vaccine.

To me the biggest issue is Tsai. He has hated Kyrie since early in year 1, because Kyrie called him out for the morey/china thing and refused to play in china (with other nets behind him... temple being one). It is covered in one of the first chapters of the book. It was stated the decision to have kyrie not play part time was Marks/Tsai's decision, but my guess is its Tsai mostly. Marks knows he doesnt need kyrie all year, just for the playoffs. Marks/Nets FO knows how stars work and they have accommodated all of them all last year. its about a ring, Marks know no trade gives them a better shot then kyrie does and id think would more likely change things up next year.

all speculation on my part, but thats how i see it

This mandate will not be repealed until we are well past COVID. Definitely not this season.

Nor is there any shot he has a religious exemption. Would be very hard to prove and hes already admitted publicly his objection is on his beliefs.

I think Kyrie will eventually come to his senses.

Honestly as long as we have him for the playoffs I would be satisfied. Imagine him seeing as us the favorite heading into the post season and still not playing cause of a shot.

[Prokorov]

I wont be surprised if Kyrie gets bored and decides get vaccinated in February or some ****.

No sense in trading him for nothing. No interest in Simmons at all. Hes unplayable in the playoffs.

I'm hoping once real games start, he decides to come back...

That said, its hard to know, since there are more avenues to a return then just getting vaccinated. The mandate will eventually end/be lifted/be amended. He may persue a religious exemption. Or he may just be like "this is gods plan" and wait out the year. its impossible to know. He seems to think his career will continue and his championship chase will continue from his instagram which gives me some cautious optimism he will be back, although im less optimistic now it will be via vaccine.

To me the biggest issue is Tsai. He has hated Kyrie since early in year 1, because Kyrie called him out for the morey/china thing and refused to play in china (with other nets behind him... temple being one). It is covered in one of the first chapters of the book. It was stated the decision to have kyrie not play part time was Marks/Tsai's decision, but my guess is its Tsai mostly. Marks knows he doesnt need kyrie all year, just for the playoffs. Marks/Nets FO knows how stars work and they have accommodated all of them all last year. its about a ring, Marks know no trade gives them a better shot then kyrie does and id think would more likely change things up next year.

all speculation on my part, but thats how i see it

This mandate will not be repealed until we are well past COVID. Definitely not this season.

Nor is there any shot he has a religious exemption. Would be very hard to prove and hes already admitted publicly his objection is on his beliefs.

I think Kyrie will eventually come to his senses.

Honestly as long as we have him for the playoffs I would be satisfied. Imagine him seeing as us the favorite heading into the post season and still not playing cause of a shot.

I doubt the mandate is around that long, in its current capacity. Even if half the people not vaccinated cave, it is still displacing millions of workers. that has an effect on the labor force, especially schools and hospitals, already understaffed.

Once the vaccination rates and daily positive rates drop, the mandate will be revised or lifted. And thats if the court cases dont force it sooner.

I'd be shocked if by april its not heavily amended or just outright removed. Our pedetrician told us to expect a vaccine for 0-12 years old by late February (we have a 2 year old).

-As of Today 72% of NYC has had 1 shot.
-Assume the mandate forces 15% more to get a shot (or they lose money, etc)
-All school aged kids vaccinated by march

I think its unlikely with an 85% vaccination rate and school kids vaccinated that the mandate isnt revised or lifted. I can see it moving to mandatory daily tests/masks/social distancing with those levels of vaccination and kids no longer wide open

[DarkXaero]

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/10/15/report-some-76ers-suspected-ben-simmons-faked-potential-coronavirus-exposure-to-dodge-game-7-vs-hawks/

This the guy a lot of yall would love to have instead?

[Prokorov]

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/10/15/report-some-76ers-suspected-ben-simmons-faked-potential-coronavirus-exposure-to-dodge-game-7-vs-hawks/

This the guy a lot of yall would love to have instead?

If true, that is beyond awful.

i wont jump to conclusions though unles someone on the team speaks up loud about it

[gigantes]

Kyrie's not being FINED though, Proky.

He's being de-listed for away games, with full salary paid. Not suspended either, which would be a CBA issue.

No, Kyrie's being paid to be a team-sabotaging-ahole, collecting millions of dollars while he does nothing at all but spew BS, meanwhile hoarding his bank acct while millions suffer for a variety of reasons, lots of them CV-19-related.

F-ck Kyrie's horrible, stoopid, stoopid choices in life.

Kyrie wont be played for home games. It wasnt super clear, but it is being assumed by many those funds will be treated as fines. He WILL be paid for away games, and he should since its the teams decision for him not toplay those.

Calling him out for "hoarding his money while other suffer" is nonsense. his track record of genericity is beyond reproach. He is one of the most chartiable players in sports.

I think we can vehemently disagree about the vaccination issue and his stance, but we can't just suddenly call him a money hoarder when he has done tremendous things for people without saying a word.

Do I disagree with what he's doing? Yes. Does that make him a bad human being overall? Absolutely not.

Yeap, pardon my warm language there about Kyrie's charitable work. Kinda whipped myself in to a frenzy there.

Still, Kyrie's home game money is really Joe Tsai's money, since Kyrie isn't in compliance and therefore hasn't earned it. So if that money indeed goes to charity, we can thank Joe, not Kyrie.

Anyway, what I was talking about earlier was Kyrie's away game salary. My point there is that if Kyrie really is 'taking a stand' on behalf of folks out of work due to CV19, then I'd love to see him donate a chunk of that money to charitable causes meant to help them, and not just his bank acct and lifestyle. Because he's only 'earned' that money in the sense that he's merely coasting on his guaranteed contract, and not actively doing anything to deserve it.

Not to mention that the salary ultimately comes from the fans and the BRK municipality via a variety of measurable ways. So it's all very well for Kyrie to have conducted charitable causes in the past, but if there was ever a time for him to give back, it would be now. He's already doing enough damage to everyone around him as is.