Porzingis and Zach LaVine

[41Dirk41]

We have to hope that KP will be healthy and efficient. He is the only with upside in our roster (of course unless Luka but i don't think he could play better than last PO...).

And Cuban MUST stay away from the FO decision, please Mark watch the game and make some noise but nothing else.
Leave Nico and Finley work.
Our situation is not so good because of you.

[Mr B]

Because he doesn't know how to play like a C and he doesn't want to play like a C. His injuries and body type don't help either. You put smaller players on Luka and he will post them easily, KP doesn't even do that against guards. It's very unlikely that to change overnight. The most likely scenario is KP chucking more shots with lesser efficiency.

Luka played with Mike Tobey in NT. They have never played together before, but they looked great together. Why? Because Tobey was doing exactly what smart C should do.

Ok, so you’re belief is that KP is what he is and can never improve? I personally have a hard time believing that a 25 year old extremely talented player can never improve his game. I mean we watched Dirk add to his game well into his 30’s. Not saying that KP is Dirk but KP is very talented. Dirk was about the same age as KP (maybe slightly older) when he developed a “back to the basket” game.

You are right that KP doesn’t have a traditional center’s body but that doesn’t mean he can’t post people up. He just needs to learn how to. Having Dirk around the team now is going to really help KP in my opinion. KP is actually going through very similar growing pains that Dirk went through. Remember when the best way to guard Dirk was to put a smaller defender on him? That was around ‘06-‘07. Dirk came back the next year and had a pretty good post game so that smaller defenders could no longer defend him. With as talented as KP is there is no reason he can’t do the same. That’s my opinion anyways.

KP is anything but Dirk. 25 years old and second franchise he wants out. He believes that he deserves more, not that he should do or show more. Those type of players rarely improve much their game. When max player starts talking how super star should take care of him, something is wrong. Not been able to create anything for himself is not Luka's fault.

I guess we will just have to wait and see then because KP isn’t going anywhere and again, I do not see the Bulls trading LaVine for him.

[Mr B]

We have to hope that KP will be healthy and efficient. He is the only with upside in our roster (of course unless Luka but i don't think he could play better than last PO...).

And Cuban MUST stay away from the FO decision, please Mark watch the game and make some noise but nothing else.
Leave Nico and Finley work.
Our situation is not so good because of you.

Read on Twitter

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[DJ_3_Ball]

KP has looked really good in the preseason, especially last night, which offers some hope to the offseason workouts we've heard so much about.

Remains to be seen if KP can stay healthy for a full season, but if he can and he can play anywhere approaching his current level, the Mavs are in really good shape.

[HairyGOATee]

LaVine would be a good get for sure, but I doubt it happens. Would have to be through a S&T too. I think the Bulls will make the playoffs this season and finish around the 6th or 7th seed.

[DJ_3_Ball]

LaVine would be a good get for sure, but I doubt it happens. Would have to be through a S&T too. I think the Bulls will make the playoffs this season and finish around the 6th or 7th seed.

I think that's on the high side of their outcomes. They might even get the 5th seed, but the Bulls have to stay healthy #1. They have to put a team of players who have never played together before. Ball, DeRozan, Caruso, LaVine, Vucevic and somehow make that work. Mix Patrick Williams in and that's a lot of moving pieces. Usually takes teams a couple seasons to gel properly.

Then, their defense could be a total disaster and they could finish as low as 10th. Even if they finish 5th, their defense is so bad they could get swept in the 1st round & LaVine wants out anyways.

LaVine staying in Chicago might be more likely than not, but the chances he leaves are still relatively high. If he leaves, he's not going to sign with Houston just because they can offer him the most money. He's not going to sign with San Antonio or Boston or Memphis. He's going to sign with only a handful of teams. Teams that Lavine thinks can win a 'chip.

Dallas will be one of those options. It would take a sign & trade, but the Bulls have no leverage in that scenario. LaVine could go to the Bulls and say trade to me Dallas for their package of THJ/Brunson (on a sign & trade deal himself) and 2 protected 1st round picks, OR I'll sign with New York and you get nothing. Bulls can't say we don't want THJ or Brunson. I mean they can, but are they going to say that? They prefer nothing.

Memphis could even hop in and offer the Bulls Dillion Brooks and Brandon Clarke and 2 1st round picks unprotected and the Bulls would want that offer more, but LaVine can just say NO. I'm not going to Memphis and the deal is off.

Seriously, if LaVine does want out of Chicago at the end of the year, how long is the list of teams he would seriously consider? And how many of those teams have the flexibility to make room for LaVine. Because Dallas is in a unique situation. Push comes to shove and we'd move anybody not named Luka to sign a true 2nd star like LaVine. Not too many other contenders are in that spot.

[HairyGOATee]

LaVine would be a good get for sure, but I doubt it happens. Would have to be through a S&T too. I think the Bulls will make the playoffs this season and finish around the 6th or 7th seed.

I think that's on the high side of their outcomes. They might even get the 5th seed, but the Bulls have to stay healthy #1. They have to put a team of players who have never played together before. Ball, DeRozan, Caruso, LaVine, Vucevic and somehow make that work. Mix Patrick Williams in and that's a lot of moving pieces. Usually takes teams a couple seasons to gel properly.

Then, their defense could be a total disaster and they could finish as low as 10th. Even if they finish 5th, their defense is so bad they could get swept in the 1st round & LaVine wants out anyways.

LaVine staying in Chicago might be more likely than not, but the chances he leaves are still relatively high. If he leaves, he's not going to sign with Houston just because they can offer him the most money. He's not going to sign with San Antonio or Boston or Memphis. He's going to sign with only a handful of teams. Teams that Lavine thinks can win a 'chip.

Dallas will be one of those options. It would take a sign & trade, but the Bulls have no leverage in that scenario. LaVine could go to the Bulls and say trade to me Dallas for their package of THJ/Brunson (on a sign & trade deal himself) and 2 protected 1st round picks, OR I'll sign with New York and you get nothing. Bulls can't say we don't want THJ or Brunson. I mean they can, but are they going to say that? They prefer nothing.

Memphis could even hop in and offer the Bulls Dillion Brooks and Brandon Clarke and 2 1st round picks unprotected and the Bulls would want that offer more, but LaVine can just say NO. I'm not going to Memphis and the deal is off.

Seriously, if LaVine does want out of Chicago at the end of the year, how long is the list of teams he would seriously consider? And how many of those teams have the flexibility to make room for LaVine. Because Dallas is in a unique situation. Push comes to shove and we'd move anybody not named Luka to sign a true 2nd star like LaVine. Not too many other contenders are in that spot.

True, but if LaVine comes here, then it'll take the Mavs some time to gel together too.

[DJ_3_Ball]

True, but if LaVine comes here, then it'll take the Mavs some time to gel together too.

Conventionally, Yes. But, I believe Luka is such a singular talent that if you give him a true 2nd star on the team, he'll give you a title. Immediately. Barring injury, at minimum, that team goes to the Western Conference Finals in year 1.

That's how good Luka is.

[HairyGOATee]

True, but if LaVine comes here, then it'll take the Mavs some time to gel together too.

Conventionally, Yes. But, I believe Luka is such a singular talent that if you give him a true 2nd star on the team, he'll give you a title. Immediately. Barring injury, at minimum, that team goes to the Western Conference Finals in year 1.

That's how good Luka is.

It at least makes the 2nd round, but it also depends on the who's involved in the trade.

[DJ_3_Ball]

True, but if LaVine comes here, then it'll take the Mavs some time to gel together too.

Conventionally, Yes. But, I believe Luka is such a singular talent that if you give him a true 2nd star on the team, he'll give you a title. Immediately. Barring injury, at minimum, that team goes to the Western Conference Finals in year 1.

That's how good Luka is.

It at least makes the 2nd round, but it also depends on the who's involved in the trade.

You're talking about Luka like he's Steve Nash. Luka is better than that. Luka is a generational talent. He'll go down as one of the top 10 players to ever play this game. LeBron took the 2007 Cavs to the NBA Finals. Look at that roster. Honestly, that might be LeBron's biggest career accomplishment. That team without LeBron doesn't win 25 games.

A generational talent can take a roster places it otherwise has no business going. The difference with that 2007 squad is they were in the Eastern conference at a time when the East was slowing down a bit. Luka needs a true 2nd star to compete in this loaded Western Conference.

Luka + LaVine + fill out the roster with replacement level talent = Western Conference Finals at the minimum.

THAT'S JUST HOW GOOD THIS KID IS.

[Mr B]

Conventionally, Yes. But, I believe Luka is such a singular talent that if you give him a true 2nd star on the team, he'll give you a title. Immediately. Barring injury, at minimum, that team goes to the Western Conference Finals in year 1.

That's how good Luka is.

It at least makes the 2nd round, but it also depends on the who's involved in the trade.

You're talking about Luka like he's Steve Nash. Luka is better than that. Luka is a generational talent. He'll go down as one of the top 10 players to ever play this game. LeBron took the 2007 Cavs to the NBA Finals. Look at that roster. Honestly, that might be LeBron's biggest career accomplishment. That team without LeBron doesn't win 25 games.

A generational talent can take a roster places it otherwise has no business going. The difference with that 2007 squad is they were in the Eastern conference at a time when the East was slowing down a bit. Luka needs a true 2nd star to compete in this loaded Western Conference.

Luka + LaVine + fill out the roster with replacement level talent = Western Conference Finals at the minimum.

THAT'S JUST HOW GOOD THIS KID IS.

Which is why I don’t see Chicago letting him go.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Which is why I don’t see Chicago letting him go.

LaVine is an unrestricted free agent at the season's end. Chicago can trade him at the deadline, IF they want. Wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to do that after what they gave up to get Vucevic and what they paid for Ball, DeRozan and Caruso. But, they can trade LaVine at the trade deadline IF they want.

However, that doesn't mean LaVine has to stay with the team they would trade him to. No matter what, at the end of this season LaVine will be an unrestricted free agent, and he can sign with whoever he wants via a straightforward free agent signing or a sign & trade.

Chicago has no say so in this. Why do you think they do?

[Mr B]

Which is why I don’t see Chicago letting him go.

LaVine is an unrestricted free agent at the season's end. Chicago can trade him at the deadline, IF they want. Wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to do that after what they gave up to get Vucevic and what they paid for Ball, DeRozan and Caruso. But, they can trade LaVine at the trade deadline IF they want.

However, that doesn't mean LaVine has to stay with the team they would trade him to. No matter what, at the end of this season LaVine will be an unrestricted free agent, and he can sign with whoever he wants via a straightforward free agent signing or a sign & trade.

Chicago has no say so in this. Why do you think they do?

I think they will be a better team this year and they will put all their chips into resigning LaVine and he will stay loyal to them and sign a long term $200M+ deal.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Which is why I don’t see Chicago letting him go.

LaVine is an unrestricted free agent at the season's end. Chicago can trade him at the deadline, IF they want. Wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to do that after what they gave up to get Vucevic and what they paid for Ball, DeRozan and Caruso. But, they can trade LaVine at the trade deadline IF they want.

However, that doesn't mean LaVine has to stay with the team they would trade him to. No matter what, at the end of this season LaVine will be an unrestricted free agent, and he can sign with whoever he wants via a straightforward free agent signing or a sign & trade.

Chicago has no say so in this. Why do you think they do?

I think they will be a better team this year and they will put all their chips into resigning LaVine and he will stay loyal to them and sign a long term $200M+ deal.

Certainly a possibility. Maybe a strong personality, and I would even say more likely than not. HOWEVER, if LaVine were loyal to the Bulls, he would have already signed that extension. He's tired of losing. Full stop. Period. End of story. This is based on reporting from the Olympics were teammates and reporters talked about how happy LaVine was to win 4 games in a row, something he hadn't done since his days at UCLA.

I think if the Bulls don't make the 2nd round of the playoffs, LaVine might leave, anyways. I think if the Bulls miss the playoffs, he's as good as gone.

[DJ_3_Ball]

By the way, I'm not obsessed with LaVine or anything. He's an All Star and his game has grown leaps & bounds in the last 3 seasons. What LaVine represents is the highest tier potential FA the Mavs can acquire in the next 2 to 3 seasons. There are no other All Stars coming free, at least who have a decent chance of coming free. Bradley Beal is the only other one, but he's demonstrated a desire to stay in D.C. for several years now.

I only think there's a 30% to 40% chance LaVine even leaves the Bulls, but that's the best probability of an All Star hitting the FA market in the next 2 seasons for sure. At least as far as we know. There's always the chance a star player gets disgruntled and demands a trade, but we don't know who that player is right now. Seems as if Dame is going to stay in Portland for the time being.

I worry about what happens to Luka if Porzingis flops, and we're not able to add another All Star to the roster.

[Mr B]

LaVine is an unrestricted free agent at the season's end. Chicago can trade him at the deadline, IF they want. Wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to do that after what they gave up to get Vucevic and what they paid for Ball, DeRozan and Caruso. But, they can trade LaVine at the trade deadline IF they want.

However, that doesn't mean LaVine has to stay with the team they would trade him to. No matter what, at the end of this season LaVine will be an unrestricted free agent, and he can sign with whoever he wants via a straightforward free agent signing or a sign & trade.

Chicago has no say so in this. Why do you think they do?

I think they will be a better team this year and they will put all their chips into resigning LaVine and he will stay loyal to them and sign a long term $200M+ deal.

Certainly a possibility. Maybe a strong personality, and I would even say more likely than not. HOWEVER, if LaVine were loyal to the Bulls, he would have already signed that extension. He's tired of losing. Full stop. Period. End of story. This is based on reporting from the Olympics were teammates and reporters talked about how happy LaVine was to win 4 games in a row, something he hadn't done since his days at UCLA.

I think if the Bulls don't make the 2nd round of the playoffs, LaVine might leave, anyways. I think if the Bulls miss the playoffs, he's as good as gone.

Was he offered a contract? I could be wrong but I didn’t remember him turning down a big contract. I think the Bulls want to see what he’ll do with better talent around him. If he plays like he should he’s going to get over $200M.

Also I think we are seeing a swing on how superstar players are approaching the game. A lot of the superstar players are choosing to stay loyal to their team as long as they are competitive and have a solid front office. A lot of these elite players are choosing to go the Dirk/Duncan route. These younger guys don’t seem to think the same way as Labron’s generation.

[Mr B]

By the way, I'm not obsessed with LaVine or anything. He's an All Star and his game has grown leaps & bounds in the last 3 seasons. What LaVine represents is the highest tier potential FA the Mavs can acquire in the next 2 to 3 seasons. There are no other All Stars coming free, at least who have a decent chance of coming free. Bradley Beal is the only other one, but he's demonstrated a desire to stay in D.C. for several years now.

I only think there's a 30% to 40% chance LaVine even leaves the Bulls, but that's the best probability of an All Star hitting the FA market in the next 2 seasons for sure. At least as far as we know. There's always the chance a star player gets disgruntled and demands a trade, but we don't know who that player is right now. Seems as if Dame is going to stay in Portland for the time being.

I worry about what happens to Luka if Porzingis flops, and we're not able to add another All Star to the roster.

I would LOVE LaVine on the Mavs and think that he would propel to elite superstar status playing with Luka. I just think it happens. It’s an extremely long shot.

As for what happens if KP doesn’t work out? His contract ends and they make a move to acquire another star player. If he doesn’t work out this year they will then look to trade his expiring contract.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Was he offered a contract? I could be wrong but I didn’t remember him turning down a big contract. I think the Bulls want to see what he’ll do with better talent around him. If he plays like he should he’s going to get over $200M.

Also I think we are seeing a swing on how superstar players are approaching the game. A lot of the superstar players are choosing to stay loyal to their team as long as they are competitive and have a solid front office. A lot of these elite players are choosing to go the Dirk/Duncan route. These younger guys don’t seem to think the same way as Labron’s generation.

"These younger guys" Who are you referring to? I'm aware of only 3 loyal NBA players in its history. Dirk, Giannis, and Dame Lilliard. You forget that Tim Duncan flew to Orlando to join the Magic in 2003. You ever hear the story of how Doc Rivers **** that negotiation up? T-Mac told that story on the Jump on ESPN one day.

Here's an article that details the LaVine & Bulls offseason negotiations: https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-zach-lavine-excited-team-direction-despite-no-extension

Brian Windhorst covered the Olympics and he talked about LaVine quite a bit on the Hoop Collective at that time. Windhorst has been all over this, so I'm paraphrasing from things he's said and from that article.

Without getting into the complicated NBA Salary restrictions. The Bulls could have offered Zach LaVine a 20% pay increase this season and signed LaVine to an extension this off-season. However, that would have precluded the Bulls from having the cap space to go out and sign Ball, Caruso, and DeRozan.

LaVine was consulted by the Bulls Front Office and asked what he wanted to do. This is mainly speculation from Windhorst's part, but he's saying that he believes the Bulls expressed their interest to stay committed to LaVine with a max extension, and that LaVine basically said "We'll see". It comes across as LaVine stressed to the Bulls that he wants to have a winning supporting cast around him, and he won't sign an extension until that happens.

Had LaVine just wanted a paycheck, he could have told the Bulls to pay him his 20% more this season and sign the extension. It sounds like the Bulls were willing to do that. According to reports, LaVine wasn't interested in committing to a team with a subpar roster.

[Mr B]

Was he offered a contract? I could be wrong but I didn’t remember him turning down a big contract. I think the Bulls want to see what he’ll do with better talent around him. If he plays like he should he’s going to get over $200M.

Also I think we are seeing a swing on how superstar players are approaching the game. A lot of the superstar players are choosing to stay loyal to their team as long as they are competitive and have a solid front office. A lot of these elite players are choosing to go the Dirk/Duncan route. These younger guys don’t seem to think the same way as Labron’s generation.

"These younger guys" Who are you referring to? I'm aware of only 3 loyal NBA players in its history. Dirk, Giannis, and Dame Lilliard. You forget that Tim Duncan flew to Orlando to join the Magic in 2003. You ever hear the story of how Doc Rivers **** that negotiation up? T-Mac told that story on the Jump on ESPN one day.

Here's an article that details the LaVine & Bulls offseason negotiations: https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-zach-lavine-excited-team-direction-despite-no-extension

Brian Windhorst covered the Olympics and he talked about LaVine quite a bit on the Hoop Collective at that time. Windhorst has been all over this, so I'm paraphrasing from things he's said and from that article.

Without getting into the complicated NBA Salary restrictions. The Bulls could have offered Zach LaVine a 20% pay increase this season and signed LaVine to an extension this off-season. However, that would have precluded the Bulls from having the cap space to go out and sign Ball, Caruso, and DeRozan.

LaVine was consulted by the Bulls Front Office and asked what he wanted to do. This is mainly speculation from Windhorst's part, but he's saying that he believes the Bulls expressed their interest to stay committed to LaVine with a max extension, and that LaVine basically said "We'll see". It comes across as LaVine stressed to the Bulls that he wants to have a winning supporting cast around him, and he won't sign an extension until that happens.

Had LaVine just wanted a paycheck, he could have told the Bulls to pay him his 20% more this season and sign the extension. It sounds like the Bulls were willing to do that. According to reports, LaVine wasn't interested in committing to a team with a subpar roster.

Well currently Luka, Giannis, Young, Booker, and Jokic have all resigned with the teams that drafted them. And besides Dame, Curry has also decided to re-up instead of taking the easy way out. Beal has also said that he has zero desire to change teams and wants to help Washington build a winner.

[HMFFL]

Fans put all of the pressure on KP and don't focus their attention on how pathetic the roster is. The front office should receive more criticism.

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