Daryl Morey's unimpressive first year with the Sixers

[TTP]

I’d rather have a GM who wastes assets but knows basketball by adding the winning players that leads to a winning team than a GM who can get me assets but does not know basketball and ends up just wasting these assets when they’re asked to turn these paper assets into actual talent.

So you're saying you prefer Brand over Colangelo?

Yes. Brand built a championship caliber squad for two seasons with this very flawed franchise duos. One of which is only in paper.

He also brought in the second, third and fifth best players in the process era namely Jimmy, Tobi and Al.

Al is overpaid, im not denying that and ideally he should have signed someone cheaper. But he is essential if you want to max out Ben as a player or as an asset, and numbers of our line-ups without Biid would show it worked.

But Brand’s biggest mistake was not re-signing JJ or finding a replacement for JJ.

Brand overestimated Josh Richardson. Then by the mid season when it’s not looking good, he did a good job getting us Burks and GRob.

Im not a big fan of BC. I just think we should be giving him credit for the good that he has done like signing Jj. JJ is a “breakthrough” of the Ben and Biid duo. The reason that duo works is because of the JJ archetype which Morey replicates with Seth. He may not be an allstar but his impact is certainly an allstar. He was the guy who’s leading in scoring on most nights behind Embiid. He was the guy we go to when we need scoring in the playoffs for a couple of playoff seasons.

Im not saying Brand is perfect or Hinkie is horrible. I just think all have their own positive and negative contributions that has lead us to where we are now. Nobody is blameless.

Assuming you're defining the Process era as since Hinkie took over in 2013, Horford definitely wasn't our fifth best player. Fifth most expensive maybe. His lineups without Embiid were positive but nothing special - overall he had a really mediocre season and there's plenty of other guys here that have been better.

Brand's biggest mistake for sure was going all in on Tobias Harris as his third star, and paying for the privilege of overpaying Harris. Harris has never been a top 30 player in the NBA - you need to commit to someone better than that around two young, blossoming stars and there are plenty of players in a similar tier to Harris that would have been acquirable and fit better. When Harris turned down the 80 mil extension the Clippers offered, I remember thinking that I did not want to be the team that was going to top that offer.

Butler was a worse fit on paper, but he's been a top 20 player for most of his career, often fringe top 10, and his best season, 2016-17 may have been a top 5 season. It's difficult to acquire that level of talent, and to let it slip away while committing to an inferior talent in Harris was a poor decision.

[DCasey91]

I actually disagree that Butler is a worse fit alongside Embiid and Ben. Certainly not Embiid.

At some point Ben has to accommodate others not be dependent on perfect circumstances with diminishing returns because he’s so flawed.

Butler literally won us 2 games against the Raptors.

Harris..... was bad, then was bad the next year. He’s a borderline 3rd option but without the dynamic aspect that comes with it.

Should have been done and dusted then.

Hell Embiid/Butler alone >>>> any version since then. Talent is talent. Butler is a top 15-20th player in the league and has been that way for years now.

[76ciology]

So you're saying you prefer Brand over Colangelo?

Yes. Brand built a championship caliber squad for two seasons with this very flawed franchise duos. One of which is only in paper.

He also brought in the second, third and fifth best players in the process era namely Jimmy, Tobi and Al.

Al is overpaid, im not denying that and ideally he should have signed someone cheaper. But he is essential if you want to max out Ben as a player or as an asset, and numbers of our line-ups without Biid would show it worked.

But Brand’s biggest mistake was not re-signing JJ or finding a replacement for JJ.

Brand overestimated Josh Richardson. Then by the mid season when it’s not looking good, he did a good job getting us Burks and GRob.

Im not a big fan of BC. I just think we should be giving him credit for the good that he has done like signing Jj. JJ is a “breakthrough” of the Ben and Biid duo. The reason that duo works is because of the JJ archetype which Morey replicates with Seth. He may not be an allstar but his impact is certainly an allstar. He was the guy who’s leading in scoring on most nights behind Embiid. He was the guy we go to when we need scoring in the playoffs for a couple of playoff seasons.

Im not saying Brand is perfect or Hinkie is horrible. I just think all have their own positive and negative contributions that has lead us to where we are now. Nobody is blameless.

Assuming you're defining the Process era as since Hinkie took over in 2013, Horford definitely wasn't our fifth best player. Fifth most expensive maybe. His lineups without Embiid were positive but nothing special - overall he had a really mediocre season and there's plenty of other guys here that have been better.

Brand's biggest mistake for sure was going all in on Tobias Harris as his third star, and paying for the privilege of overpaying Harris. Harris has never been a top 30 player in the NBA - you need to commit to someone better than that and there are plenty of players in a similar tier to Harris that would be acquirable and fit better. When Harris turned down the 80 mil extension the Clippers offered, I remember thinking that I did not want to be the team that was going to top that offer.

Butler was a worse fit on paper, but he's been a top 20 player for most of his career, often fringe top 10, and his best season, 2016-17 may have been a top 5 season. It's difficult to acquire that level of talent, and to let it slip away while committing to an inferior talent in Harris was a poor decision.

In 2019-2020, I think we’d make it to the finals if Ben didnt got injured, re-signed JJ. Then trade for Burks earlier to build chemistry.

This way you get the 3 things we glaringly need to build around Biid and Ben
- pick and roll guard (Burks or Jrich or Milton)
- DHO shooter (JJ)
- 2 way stretch 5 (Al)

From the Brand experience what I can extract/learn is:
- we need a lot of talent if we want to build around Biid and Ben (2018-2019 season)
- we need a star pick and roll player (jimmy), borderline to a star stretch 5 who can start if we want to play well without Embiid and for us to max out Ben (2019-2020 season)

I think Brand was right for that “all in” move in 2018-2019 by acquiring Jimmy and Tobi. That decision would be successful more often than not in a large sample size. This kind of personnel decision is similar to the recent Kawhi, CP3 and Jrue trades.

But you’re right that Brand made a mistake in overpaying for Tobi. Because if im overpaying for a player, I want it to either be because he is highly talented or because he is the right talent we need, and I do see neither of it with Tobi.

The only rationale I see is Brand sees it as Roco, Dario, Shamet and a pick’s value and contract as an equivalent to Tobi’s value and contract. Whereas you then take Tobi because he’s the best talent out of that bunch.

[the_process]

Yes. Brand built a championship caliber squad for two seasons with this very flawed franchise duos. One of which is only in paper.

He also brought in the second, third and fifth best players in the process era namely Jimmy, Tobi and Al.

Al is overpaid, im not denying that and ideally he should have signed someone cheaper. But he is essential if you want to max out Ben as a player or as an asset, and numbers of our line-ups without Biid would show it worked.

But Brand’s biggest mistake was not re-signing JJ or finding a replacement for JJ.

Brand overestimated Josh Richardson. Then by the mid season when it’s not looking good, he did a good job getting us Burks and GRob.

Im not a big fan of BC. I just think we should be giving him credit for the good that he has done like signing Jj. JJ is a “breakthrough” of the Ben and Biid duo. The reason that duo works is because of the JJ archetype which Morey replicates with Seth. He may not be an allstar but his impact is certainly an allstar. He was the guy who’s leading in scoring on most nights behind Embiid. He was the guy we go to when we need scoring in the playoffs for a couple of playoff seasons.

Im not saying Brand is perfect or Hinkie is horrible. I just think all have their own positive and negative contributions that has lead us to where we are now. Nobody is blameless.

Assuming you're defining the Process era as since Hinkie took over in 2013, Horford definitely wasn't our fifth best player. Fifth most expensive maybe. His lineups without Embiid were positive but nothing special - overall he had a really mediocre season and there's plenty of other guys here that have been better.

Brand's biggest mistake for sure was going all in on Tobias Harris as his third star, and paying for the privilege of overpaying Harris. Harris has never been a top 30 player in the NBA - you need to commit to someone better than that and there are plenty of players in a similar tier to Harris that would be acquirable and fit better. When Harris turned down the 80 mil extension the Clippers offered, I remember thinking that I did not want to be the team that was going to top that offer.

Butler was a worse fit on paper, but he's been a top 20 player for most of his career, often fringe top 10, and his best season, 2016-17 may have been a top 5 season. It's difficult to acquire that level of talent, and to let it slip away while committing to an inferior talent in Harris was a poor decision.

In 2019-2020, I think we’d make it to the finals if Ben didnt got injured, re-signed JJ. Then trade for Burks earlier to build chemistry.

This way you get the 3 things we glaringly need to build around Biid and Ben
- pick and roll guard (Burks or Jrich or Milton)
- DHO shooter (JJ)
- 2 way stretch 5 (Al)

From the Brand experience what I can extract/learn is:
- we need a lot of talent if we want to build around Biid and Ben (2018-2019 season)
- we need a star pick and roll player (jimmy), borderline to a star stretch 5 who can start if we want to play well without Embiid and for us to max out Ben (2019-2020 season)

I think Brand was right for that “all in” move in 2018-2019 by acquiring Jimmy and Tobi. That decision would be successful more often than not in a large sample size. This kind of personnel decision is similar to the recent Kawhi, CP3 and Jrue trades.

But you’re right that Brand made a mistake in overpaying for Tobi. Because if im overpaying for a player, I want it to either be because he is highly talented or because he is the right talent we need, and I do see neither of it with Tobi.

The only rationale I see is Brand sees it as Roco, Dario, Shamet and a pick’s value and contract as an equivalent to Tobi’s value and contract. Whereas you then take Tobi because he’s the best talent out of that bunch.

And that type of value judgment is exactly why we need to be glad Elton is not in the big chair anymore.

[TTP]

Every year the suckers wastes their lottery picks on bigs

And if you know basketball, you wouldnt be wasting lottery picks on role playing bigs

This anti-big stance is strange right now considering:

-The current Finals favorite just took a big #1 three drafts ago and is a key member of their future.

-The best player on the other Finals team is a big and is a 2 time MVP.

-The current MVP is a big.

-The current MVP runner up is a lottery big.

-The best player on the #1 seed in the West is a big.

Hell, even one of our lottery bigs that you criticize is getting playoff minutes on a likely NBA champion (and he was part of an elite starting unit for us in 2017-18).

[rzzzzz]

If our main lottery big hadn’t gone up for a poster slam against the Wiz, and tore his meniscus on landing, I think we’re in the finals this year, despite the bizarre aversion our 2nd lottery big has to shooting in the 4th qtr.

[phillynative]

If our main lottery big hadn’t gone up for a poster slam against the Wiz, and tore his meniscus on landing, I think we’re in the finals this year, despite the bizarre aversion our 2nd lottery big has to shooting in the 4th qtr.

We were getting past the bucks?

[sixers hoops]

I’d rather have a GM who wastes assets but knows basketball by adding the winning players that leads to a winning team than a GM who can get me assets but does not know basketball and ends up just wasting these assets when they’re asked to turn these paper assets into actual talent.

So you're saying you prefer Brand over Colangelo?

Yes. Brand built a championship caliber squad for two seasons with this very flawed franchise duos. One of which is only in paper.

He also brought in the second, third and fifth best players in the process era namely Jimmy, Tobi and Al.

Al is overpaid, im not denying that and ideally he should have signed someone cheaper. But he is essential if you want to max out Ben as a player or as an asset, and numbers of our line-ups without Biid would show it worked.

But Brand’s biggest mistake was not re-signing JJ or finding a replacement for JJ.

Brand overestimated Josh Richardson. Then by the mid season when it’s not looking good, he did a good job getting us Burks and GRob.

Im not a big fan of BC. I just think we should be giving him credit for the good that he has done like signing Jj. JJ is a “breakthrough” of the Ben and Biid duo. The reason that duo works is because of the JJ archetype which Morey replicates with Seth. He may not be an allstar but his impact is certainly an allstar. He was the guy who’s leading in scoring on most nights behind Embiid. He was the guy we go to when we need scoring in the playoffs for a couple of playoff seasons.

BC also deserves criticisms for his mistakes. Such as the things you have mentioned and you are right with those things. And for me, this includes drafting Ben. But he was right with drafting Fultz, its just that what happened to Fultz was a black swan. For the record, if i can turn back the hand of time, I’ll draft Fultz over Tatum again. It was the right choice, and we’re seeing how a guy like Fultz is essential in playing winning basketball this playoffs.

Im not saying Brand is perfect or Hinkie is horrible. I just think all have their own positive and negative contributions that has lead us to where we are now. Nobody is blameless.

Im looking at the past to help me navigate the future, I’m not finding anyone to blame.

The right talent is as important or even more important than the value of talent.

Brand was horrible for the most part. After Ben had to have the point guard duties removed from him for the second straight season, instead of moving him to PF, he went all-in on Tobias as his PF, and signed a fourth big to a massive contract. He used all of our money on two centers and two power forwards. Then of course come playoff time we had to try to make Shake the point guard, since we didn’t have one.

He has made some nice moves around the margins, but if you can’t even get the basic parts of a functional team in place, you are going to struggle. He basically just went for the most talented players he could find without regard to value or position.

[76ciology]

So you're saying you prefer Brand over Colangelo?

Yes. Brand built a championship caliber squad for two seasons with this very flawed franchise duos. One of which is only in paper.

He also brought in the second, third and fifth best players in the process era namely Jimmy, Tobi and Al.

Al is overpaid, im not denying that and ideally he should have signed someone cheaper. But he is essential if you want to max out Ben as a player or as an asset, and numbers of our line-ups without Biid would show it worked.

But Brand’s biggest mistake was not re-signing JJ or finding a replacement for JJ.

Brand overestimated Josh Richardson. Then by the mid season when it’s not looking good, he did a good job getting us Burks and GRob.

Im not a big fan of BC. I just think we should be giving him credit for the good that he has done like signing Jj. JJ is a “breakthrough” of the Ben and Biid duo. The reason that duo works is because of the JJ archetype which Morey replicates with Seth. He may not be an allstar but his impact is certainly an allstar. He was the guy who’s leading in scoring on most nights behind Embiid. He was the guy we go to when we need scoring in the playoffs for a couple of playoff seasons.

BC also deserves criticisms for his mistakes. Such as the things you have mentioned and you are right with those things. And for me, this includes drafting Ben. But he was right with drafting Fultz, its just that what happened to Fultz was a black swan. For the record, if i can turn back the hand of time, I’ll draft Fultz over Tatum again. It was the right choice, and we’re seeing how a guy like Fultz is essential in playing winning basketball this playoffs.

Im not saying Brand is perfect or Hinkie is horrible. I just think all have their own positive and negative contributions that has lead us to where we are now. Nobody is blameless.

Im looking at the past to help me navigate the future, I’m not finding anyone to blame.

The right talent is as important or even more important than the value of talent.

Brand was horrible for the most part. After Ben had to have the point guard duties removed from him for the second straight season, instead of moving him to PF, he went all-in on Tobias as his PF, and signed a fourth big to a massive contract. He used all of our money on two centers and two power forwards. Then of course come playoff time we had to try to make Shake the point guard, since we didn’t have one.

He has made some nice moves around the margins, but if you can’t even get the basic parts of a functional team in place, you are going to struggle. He basically just went for the most talented players he could find without regard to value or position.

Common denominator from the last three GMs.

Overpaying to acquire centers and guards who can’t shoot in an era that is going away from centers and teams lead by high scoring perimeter players.

We can learn a lot from their mistakes and move forward

[rzzzzz]

If our main lottery big hadn’t gone up for a poster slam against the Wiz, and tore his meniscus on landing, I think we’re in the finals this year, despite the bizarre aversion our 2nd lottery big has to shooting in the 4th qtr.

We were getting past the bucks?

Yep. A healthy Nets team would have been a real challenge, but a healthy Embiid is the most dominant player in the league, and Daryl’s early acquisitions were a really nice fit with him, especially for the playoffs. Curry was everything we could have asked for, and I’m real sorry we lost Danny, whose prior playoff runs had been most productive. No knock on Jrue or Middleton, but we were built for the bucks.

[Stanford]

If our main lottery big hadn’t gone up for a poster slam against the Wiz, and tore his meniscus on landing, I think we’re in the finals this year, despite the bizarre aversion our 2nd lottery big has to shooting in the 4th qtr.

We were getting past the bucks?

The amazing thing about losing in the second round is that you can assert that you'd be champs if you won another game or two.

[rzzzzz]

The amazing thing about losing in the second round is that you can assert that you'd be champs if you won another game or two.

Them four bounces on the rim will remain seared on my brain for life.

[Stanford]

The amazing thing about losing in the second round is that you can assert that you'd be champs if you won another game or two.

Them four bounces on the rim will remain seared on my brain for life.

And we'd have won in overtime because you can't prove otherwise!

[76ciology]

If our main lottery big hadn’t gone up for a poster slam against the Wiz, and tore his meniscus on landing, I think we’re in the finals this year, despite the bizarre aversion our 2nd lottery big has to shooting in the 4th qtr.

We were getting past the bucks?

Yep. A healthy Nets team would have been a real challenge, but a healthy Embiid is the most dominant player in the league, and Daryl’s early acquisitions were a really nice fit with him, especially for the playoffs. Curry was everything we could have asked for, and I’m real sorry we lost Danny, whose prior playoff runs had been most productive. No knock on Jrue or Middleton, but we were built for the bucks.

Bucks is exactly the team built to beat us.

I’ll keep it short because i know u guys have read whats my sentiment about this.

Our defense: Jrue will attack pick and rolls. Giannis will wore down Embiid. If Ben defends Giannis, Giannis will have his way against Ben.

Our offense: Brolo has the length to challenge Embiid’s jumper despite sagging off him because he’s a giant. Then if Embiid wishes to drive, there’s another giant in the paint named Giannis. Middleton is exactly the guy who can stop tobias, big and quick enough to take away any advantages.

Take note. Embiid was limited in crunch time against the Hawks and they’re a much inferior team.

If you take Embiid away in the game, you rely on… Seth?

Well, there’s Jrue. Trae can’t even bring down the ball with Jrue, who is probably the best guard defender in the league.

Casually, we used to say “wow sixers is big” no.. it’s the Bucks. We’re not bigger than the Hawks team, specially when they run their big line-up with Galinari and Huerter at the wing positions.

They’re exactly the team we’re trying to be. And they’re years ahead of the curve.

And man..

Embiid already had stamina and health issues against two weak playoff teams. He even missed a game, as early in the first round.

Do you think his stamina and health will improve if ever we face the bucks with him chasing Giannis all over the floor?

[76ciology]

Playing big has its strengths
Playing small has its strengths

We have neither of those strengths and have both their weaknesses.

We’re not outrebounding, spamming alley-oops and bulldozing our way in the paint like teams that play big. We’re not playing fast, running PnR and spamming 3s like small ball team.

We’re this luke warm team that teams that play big and teams that play small can take advantage of their strengths against us.

[rzzzzz]

Do you think his stamina and health will improve if ever we face the bucks with him chasing Giannis all over the floor?

I don’t know what injured Giannis is going to end up playing like. We saw what injured Embiid could and couldn’t do. Plus we were hoping for injured Danny to be back.

We’ve seen what healthy Embiid does against healthy Giannis. I’m OK with that match-up. But, of course, the reality was that’s not what we were going to see this year if we got past the Hawks. Which we should have done, regardless of Embiid’s limitations, Danny’s absence, and, at the time, Trae being healthy. Those two blown leads were a nightmare of bad rotation choices accompanied by poor execution.

[Kolkmania]

Tried to find a Morey topic. His tenure thus far hasn't been sexy but I agree on basically all the things he's done thus far. Only the Harden trade stings, but it seems like there were some personal motivations involved from Houston perspective.

We have a ton of positive value (non-rookie) contracts on the roster. Korkmaz for 5m/year, Curry for 8m/year and Niang for 4m/year. Green for 10m is also very tradeable and a good sized-contract to add.

I personally don't feel like we're ever going to get a borderline star back in a Simmons trade, so I am really curious with the outcome of that situation.

[DCasey91]

Also Drummond for us in particular is a downright steal for the minimum. Morey is making good moves around the edges but I would like at least one extra young guard on the roster that can play and play well.

There’s plenty out there that’s not expensive. We have a 9 man rotation that’s missing an acceptable guard.

[elchengue20]

I actually disagree that Butler is a worse fit alongside Embiid and Ben. Certainly not Embiid.

At some point Ben has to accommodate others not be dependent on perfect circumstances with diminishing returns because he’s so flawed.

Butler literally won us 2 games against the Raptors.

Harris..... was bad, then was bad the next year. He’s a borderline 3rd option but without the dynamic aspect that comes with it.

Should have been done and dusted then.

Hell Embiid/Butler alone >>>> any version since then. Talent is talent. Butler is a top 15-20th player in the league and has been that way for years now.

Yeah Embiid + Butler would have been way better than any crap we tried to create since he left.

Embiid is like Adebayo on steroids, and Jimmy got to the Finals with him.

Just imagine trading Ben Simmons for a haul like we could have been done, we probably have a championship by now.

Tobias was a bad trade and even worse signing, never understood his fit with either Joel and/or Ben.


Harrison Barnes had 8 threes and 36 points last night, ill trade him for Tobias in a heartbeat.

[sixers4real]

In a Chicago game thread, I’ve mentioned that we’ve had 8 players that game and Morey played a role of getting 6 of them here.

Then, I realized that out of 15 players that we have on contract (excluding Henry and Riller 2-way) Morey got 10 players here in just a little over a year. He was hired late October 2020.

Danny Green ($10M) - got in a trade and then resigned for a decent tradable contract
Seth Curry ($8,2M) - got in a trade, one of the best shooters in the league on a great contract
Furkan Forkmaz ($4,6M) - resigned for cheap to three years, one of the most underrated singings by Morey
Georges Niang ($3,3M) - singed this off-season, great bench player for just $6,75 over two years
Tyrese Maxey ($2,6M) - drafted by Morey, great potential
Andre Drummond ($2,4M) - singed this off-drain for minimum. Underrated move as well. Great backup for Embiid.
Jaden Springer ($2M) - drafted by Morey, to be determined.
Isaiah Joe ($1,5M) - great pick by Morey in the 2nd round last year, Joe definitely improved and can get much better and become rotational player
Paul Reed ($1,5M) - same as Joe
Charles Bassey ($1M) - drafted by Morey, to be determined

So, out of 15 players, 10 are here because of Morey.

Now, funny fact, this 10 players make a combine of little over $35M a year. Our total payroll is $142.

The rest 5 players are
Tobias Harris - $36M (I guess he’ll trade him if there is the good return for him, but putting him on the market right now makes no sense)
Ben Simmons - $33M (I’m quite sure he’ll trade him, he already tried once for Harden)
Joel Embiid - $31,5M (our franchise, he seems to have a good relationship with Morey, and got resigned by Morey)
Mattie Thybulle - $2,8M (maybe Morey will trade him with Simmons, like he already tried)
Shake Milton - $1,8M (Shake is on great contract, but if needed, I’m sure Morey will include him in Simmons or other deal, but value wise, Shake is in great contract)

I’m conclusion, I wanted to say, Morey is obviously building his team here, and value wise, salaries wise, I love it.
It’s feels so great to trust a GM.
And I trust him on Simmons trade and on decision on what to do with Tobias.