2021-22 Rookie Thread

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Who will be the three best rookies?

Cade Cunningham
130
14%
Jalen Green
148
16%
Evan Mobley
187
21%
Scottie Barnes
225
25%
Jalen Suggs
51
6%
Josh Giddey
82
9%
Jonathan Kuminga
6
1%
Trey Murphy
11
1%
James Bouknight
15
2%
Other
44
5%
 
Total votes: 899

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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#481 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:28 am

youOK wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
After 3 games/ first week of the season.

Week 2 just got started.
Fair enough. Franz is #1 rookie so far in week 2. Suggs is #2.

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I know everyone is excited about their rookies but Suggs is literally shooting 25% from the field so far. That doesn't mean he won't be great, but he's clearly struggled shooting the ball so far. No way yo could ever say he is the #2 performing rookie right now.


he needs a shooting coach. now i'm not watching Magic games at the moment, are all of Suggs' shots in rhythm or are they stand still 3s at the end of a play? I.e. rumors that he couldn't make stand still 3s in the Raptors draft camp.
raf1995 wrote:I just don’t think he has that kind of potential. I think we will regret not trading him for a haul in a few years when he’s a mid-tier starter with nice playmaking and defense and a shaky jumper.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#482 » by LoveMyRaps » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:05 am

basketballRob wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Looks good, but I'd put Franz at 2.

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lmao oh come on after 3 games/1 week.

Barnes is averaging a double double, 18/10/2, ORTG 113 and DRTG at 100. -0.4 BPM
Franz inferior stats to Barnes, 13/5/1, ORTG 109 and DRTG 118. with a -3.8 BPM

Franz maybe with a case at 4 or 5.
Barnes is averaging 16.8 and 8.5. He's shooting 16.7% from 3, 1.3 assists and 3.3 turnovers, .5 steals, .3 blocks.

Franz had a 2:1 assist to turnover rate, gets 1 steal, .8 blocks, shoots 35% from 3, and averages 13.3 ppg.

So Franz is better in nearly every statistical category except rebounding and points. Franz is playing less minutes, with less usage.

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Holy bias.
I've seen every minute of Raptors & Magic basketball this season (mainly because of Suggs) and Barnes definitely has been more impactful on both ends of the floor. He's simply been better. At least watch the highlights if you're not going to watch Raptors games.

On the subject of Suggs: Cole is gonna hurt Suggs development. The two can not & will not co-exist. Suggs has superstar potential here & I'd hate to see that go to waste.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#483 » by God Squad » Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:15 am

whitehops wrote:
kdthunderup wrote:This draft is looking stacked already. Green, Mobley, Barnes, Giddey, Mitchell all look like they will be great players. Cunningham has yet to even debut.

plus you know there's going to be some late bloomers too. it is too early to say any of the players you listed will pan out, though it'd be great for the league if they do.

All 5 will pan out 100% imo, I'd add Franz to the list also. But the extent of which is to be determined though for these prospects (ceiling/contribution).

Mobley/Barnes = 2 Way Forwards/high ceiling
Green = Elite scoring package/athleticism/high ceiling
Michell = lockdown guard
Giddey = 6'8 passing savant
Franz = Swiss army knife forward
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#484 » by God Squad » Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:21 am

basketballRob wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:One week in top 5
1. Mobley
2. Barnes
3. Duarte
4. Giddey
5. Mitchell (low stats but clearly amazing defense)
Looks good, but I'd put Franz at 2.

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Franz has played great. But you buggin out if you think he's number two. I'd understand a case for Duarte. The earliest I'd put franz on this list is 5. Which is still very good, better than where I'd put Suggs.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#485 » by God Squad » Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:25 am

youOK wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
After 3 games/ first week of the season.

Week 2 just got started.
Fair enough. Franz is #1 rookie so far in week 2. Suggs is #2.

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I know everyone is excited about their rookies but Suggs is literally shooting 25% from the field so far. That doesn't mean he won't be great, but he's clearly struggled shooting the ball so far. No way yo could ever say he is the #2 performing rookie right now.

Yeah, Suggs has been very underwhelming for "NBA Ready". I'm gonna give him more time to figure it out obviously, but it's his handle on top of the iffy shooting. Now Duarte, although older is the definition of NBA ready. He's come in (brogdon style) and just knows how to play regardless of his role.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#486 » by peZt » Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:56 am

When was the last time the most "NBA ready guy" was actually NBA ready?
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#487 » by PD28 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:39 am

peZt wrote:When was the last time the most "NBA ready guy" was actually NBA ready?
True but have we ever seen a guy picked in the top 5 who has pegged as most NBA ready fair the worst lol?

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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#488 » by anotherhomer » Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:41 pm

PD28 wrote:
peZt wrote:When was the last time the most "NBA ready guy" was actually NBA ready?
True but have we ever seen a guy picked in the top 5 who has pegged as most NBA ready fair the worst lol?

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Evan mobley appears at least nba ready on defensive end with some offensive potential
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#489 » by peZt » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:23 pm

People use the term NBA ready mostly for fundamentally sound yet unathletic guys. Those are the opposite of NBA ready.
Like Cade. People say he is NBA ready. Athleticism and quickness are his big question marks. Either those won't be a problem and he will blossom into an allstar, or he won't have the necessary quicks to beat his defenders off the dribble. And then he is useless as a primary ballhandler. That's not being NBA ready, that's as boom or bust as it comes.

Athelticism and quickness is a bottle neck, especially for primary ballhandlers. If you can't beat your man off the dribble, can't get to the rim even though you're supposed to be an on ball guy, then you're skillset won't be any good for you.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#490 » by mademan » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:37 pm

peZt wrote:People use the term NBA ready mostly for fundamentally sound yet unathletic guys. Those are the opposite of NBA ready.
Like Cade. People say he is NBA ready. Athleticism and quickness are his big question marks. Either those won't be a problem and he will blossom into an allstar, or he won't have the necessary quicks to beat his defenders off the dribble. And then he is useless as a primary ballhandler. That's not being NBA ready, that's as boom or bust as it comes.

Athelticism and quickness is a bottle neck, especially for primary ballhandlers. If you can't beat your man off the dribble, can't get to the rim even though you're supposed to be an on ball guy, then you're skillset won't be any good for you.


What ive been saying for a while. If youre athleticism isnt great, if youre not explosive and cant get a step on guys, then youre skillset has to be special. I dont see that in Suggs and while i somewhat see it in Cade, i dont see it to the level of superstar. If Cade was bigger like 6'8 or 6'9 and could rely on his size like a Luka Doncic, i'd feel different. I feel Cade will be very good and an all-star level player, just not a franchise guy. I dont see Suggs being more than just a solid starter
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#491 » by OrlMagic05 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:19 pm

mademan wrote:
peZt wrote:People use the term NBA ready mostly for fundamentally sound yet unathletic guys. Those are the opposite of NBA ready.
Like Cade. People say he is NBA ready. Athleticism and quickness are his big question marks. Either those won't be a problem and he will blossom into an allstar, or he won't have the necessary quicks to beat his defenders off the dribble. And then he is useless as a primary ballhandler. That's not being NBA ready, that's as boom or bust as it comes.

Athelticism and quickness is a bottle neck, especially for primary ballhandlers. If you can't beat your man off the dribble, can't get to the rim even though you're supposed to be an on ball guy, then you're skillset won't be any good for you.


What ive been saying for a while. If youre athleticism isnt great, if youre not explosive and cant get a step on guys, then youre skillset has to be special. I dont see that in Suggs and while i somewhat see it in Cade, i dont see it to the level of superstar. If Cade was bigger like 6'8 or 6'9 and could rely on his size like a Luka Doncic, i'd feel different. I feel Cade will be very good and an all-star level player, just not a franchise guy. I dont see Suggs being more than just a solid starter


While I have been disappointed with Suggs, you have to take in to perspective what is going on around him. The Magic had the youngest starting line up on opening night in NBA HISTORY with a first year head coach. Whereas other rookies like barnes are in a well oiled system already.

Suggs clearly isnt a PG and is more of a SG, but he needs to work on his dribbling and stay under control. His issue right now is he dribbles into the paint without knowing what he is going to do and either throws up a wild shot or gets the ball knocked away from him. It doesnt help that he plays with another non PG in Cole Anthony.

I think once Fultz is back it will benefit Suggs a lot having an actual PG on the floor with him. Suggs has the talent, he just needs direction on how to best use that talent.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#492 » by mademan » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:37 pm

OrlMagic05 wrote:
mademan wrote:
peZt wrote:People use the term NBA ready mostly for fundamentally sound yet unathletic guys. Those are the opposite of NBA ready.
Like Cade. People say he is NBA ready. Athleticism and quickness are his big question marks. Either those won't be a problem and he will blossom into an allstar, or he won't have the necessary quicks to beat his defenders off the dribble. And then he is useless as a primary ballhandler. That's not being NBA ready, that's as boom or bust as it comes.

Athelticism and quickness is a bottle neck, especially for primary ballhandlers. If you can't beat your man off the dribble, can't get to the rim even though you're supposed to be an on ball guy, then you're skillset won't be any good for you.


What ive been saying for a while. If youre athleticism isnt great, if youre not explosive and cant get a step on guys, then youre skillset has to be special. I dont see that in Suggs and while i somewhat see it in Cade, i dont see it to the level of superstar. If Cade was bigger like 6'8 or 6'9 and could rely on his size like a Luka Doncic, i'd feel different. I feel Cade will be very good and an all-star level player, just not a franchise guy. I dont see Suggs being more than just a solid starter


While I have been disappointed with Suggs, you have to take in to perspective what is going on around him. The Magic had the youngest starting line up on opening night in NBA HISTORY with a first year head coach. Whereas other rookies like barnes are in a well oiled system already.

Suggs clearly isnt a PG and is more of a SG, but he needs to work on his dribbling and stay under control. His issue right now is he dribbles into the paint without knowing what he is going to do and either throws up a wild shot or gets the ball knocked away from him. It doesnt help that he plays with another non PG in Cole Anthony.

I think once Fultz is back it will benefit Suggs a lot having an actual PG on the floor with him. Suggs has the talent, he just needs direction on how to best use that talent.


This isnt a commentary on Suggs season thus far, this is how ive felt about him for a while, and more importantly, a philosophy i have about guard play. You cant be a star offensive guard if you cant either explode past people and dont have a special skillset, and thats Suggs. Now i expect him to improve, but you rarely see guys develop top tier handles/creativity/creation skills once in the league. They refine those skills, but they come in with them
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#493 » by Creativetran » Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:46 pm

God Squad wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:One week in top 5
1. Mobley
2. Barnes
3. Duarte
4. Giddey
5. Mitchell (low stats but clearly amazing defense)
Looks good, but I'd put Franz at 2.

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Franz has played great. But you buggin out if you think he's number two. I'd understand a case for Duarte. The earliest I'd put franz on this list is 5. Which is still very good, better than where I'd put Suggs.

Ya man, you making us Magic fans look bad. We should be ecstatic he's even being talked about considering how badly he played in summer league and preseason, so this is a huge surprise.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#494 » by PD28 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:48 pm

Creativetran wrote:
God Squad wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Looks good, but I'd put Franz at 2.

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Franz has played great. But you buggin out if you think he's number two. I'd understand a case for Duarte. The earliest I'd put franz on this list is 5. Which is still very good, better than where I'd put Suggs.

Ya man, you making us Magic fans look bad. We should be ecstatic he's even being talked about considering how badly he played in summer league and preseason, so this is a huge surprise.


Most of the Top rookies have had breakout games already, I expect Suggs to have one in the next few games.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#495 » by JonFromVA » Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:54 pm

I haven't seen Suggs play yet, but I'd say in general you might want to give a 20 year old PG more than 4 games before trying to draw conclusions on his viability in the league.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#496 » by Jadoogar » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:29 pm

peZt wrote:When was the last time the most "NBA ready guy" was actually NBA ready?


Mitchell and Duarte absolutely look ready already.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#497 » by OrlMagic05 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:38 pm

JonFromVA wrote:I haven't seen Suggs play yet, but I'd say in general you might want to give a 20 year old PG more than 4 games before trying to draw conclusions on his viability in the league.


THIS.. How quickly people forget just last years rookie of the year and the horrible start he had. He shot in the mid-high 30s from the field his first two months of the season. Jalen isnt a PG and it shows. He will figure it out with time.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#498 » by OrlMagic05 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:45 pm

mademan wrote:
OrlMagic05 wrote:
mademan wrote:
What ive been saying for a while. If youre athleticism isnt great, if youre not explosive and cant get a step on guys, then youre skillset has to be special. I dont see that in Suggs and while i somewhat see it in Cade, i dont see it to the level of superstar. If Cade was bigger like 6'8 or 6'9 and could rely on his size like a Luka Doncic, i'd feel different. I feel Cade will be very good and an all-star level player, just not a franchise guy. I dont see Suggs being more than just a solid starter


While I have been disappointed with Suggs, you have to take in to perspective what is going on around him. The Magic had the youngest starting line up on opening night in NBA HISTORY with a first year head coach. Whereas other rookies like barnes are in a well oiled system already.

Suggs clearly isnt a PG and is more of a SG, but he needs to work on his dribbling and stay under control. His issue right now is he dribbles into the paint without knowing what he is going to do and either throws up a wild shot or gets the ball knocked away from him. It doesnt help that he plays with another non PG in Cole Anthony.

I think once Fultz is back it will benefit Suggs a lot having an actual PG on the floor with him. Suggs has the talent, he just needs direction on how to best use that talent.


This isnt a commentary on Suggs season thus far, this is how ive felt about him for a while, and more importantly, a philosophy i have about guard play. You cant be a star offensive guard if you cant either explode past people and dont have a special skillset, and thats Suggs. Now i expect him to improve, but you rarely see guys develop top tier handles/creativity/creation skills once in the league. They refine those skills, but they come in with them


Eh i don't agree with this. The term "special skillset" is so vague. Jalen just needs to let the game come to him. He tends to rush a lot right now and is missing shots that I think he will eventually start knocking down.

You can't say that guys dont develop top tier handles/creativity/creation skills once in the league, because if that were the case we wouldnt see drastic improvement from players. Oladipo (before injury) is a great example of someone who did develop all the above after being in the league for a few years. I am sure there are many more, but too lazy to look up more players.
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#499 » by Vampirate » Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:33 pm

Has there ever been a draft class where every player in the top 5 have panned out? It looks like it might be in this class (thus far)
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Re: 2021-22 Rookie Thread 

Post#500 » by Roger Murdock » Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:12 pm

Vampirate wrote:Has there ever been a draft class where every player in the top 5 have panned out? It looks like it might be in this class (thus far)


2019

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