Poole needs to come off bench

clyde21 · Post #1 » by **clyde21** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:25 am

as the primary scorer for the second 2nd, in a 6th man capacity role.

i get it, we don't have Klay, and that's the reason he's in the starting lineup, but tbh I don't really feel like he gels with Steph nor the starting lineup at all, kinda has a score first mentality, can be a bit of a ball stopper, offensively is one or two read guy at most...I like his scoring potential but it makes much more sense coming off the bench, Klay or no Klay.

what I would do honestly is just plug Moody into the 2 hole from now, ready or not ready. he's the one guy on the roster who can most replicate what Klay can do at the 2 in some capacity as a 3-D guy. put him next to Steph and Wiggins, give him a clearly defined role and let him go.

this way, when Klay comes back, we're already playing the same exact way as we would've been had he been in the lineup, with a 3+D guy at the 2 and Poole first G off bench.

Coxy · Post #2 » by **Coxy** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:26 am

Agreed, but I'd rather start Lee.

EvanZ · Post #3 » by **EvanZ** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:56 pm

I’m Moody’s biggest supporter here but Lee should get the starting job. He’s earned it. He’s proven he can shoot in the NBA. Moody hasn’t done that yet. I think he will in time, but you don’t destroy team chemistry to take that chance. Not on a team trying to chase wins.

What I would do is start playing Moody more and certainly stop the Chiozza experiment.

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DAWill1128 · Post #4 » by **DAWill1128** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:44 pm

I was more of an advocate to start Porter. I thought he had the experience, reliable catch and shoot ability, and his length added to the starting lineup could help stifle teams to start games. Move Wiggins to the shooting guard and have a nice big lineup to disrupt the other team.

I think some may underestimate that Pooles value is in that he’s a threat to create a shot for himself. Poole being able to create a shot keeps the other team honest. Also Poole just being another ball handler in the lineup helps a lot. Poole is still quick and that helps.

Is Poole better operating as the primary ball handler in a second unit? Yeah. I think we drafted him thinking he would be a streaky catch and shoot guy like Nick Young but found out he’s not that level at all off the catch and he needs to dribble to get going.

I think in some ways Poole is just a decoy to dribble drive on you, he presents just the threat of creating for himself which I think has helped thus far. He needs to be cooking by the playoffs for us to have a chance of getting to the Finals.

I’ve felt like we needed another shot creator for a few years but that’s never been a widely popular opinion. Most opting for 3 and D type guys. But you can’t strictly have those guys, the ball can get stagnant and it’s a huge workload on Steph to create so many shots for himself and everyone else.

Old_Blue · Post #5 » by **Old_Blue** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:44 pm

Coxy wrote:Agreed, but I'd rather start Lee.

The chemistry between Curry and Lee is undeniable. Once Klay returns, it will still be worth exploring lineups that include Curry, Lee and Klay all on the court together.

clyde21 · Post #6 » by **clyde21** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:54 pm

i think the primary point of starting Moody is that he can most easily play the Klay role imo as a 3-D guy, maybe not right away but I think he can get there by mid season if given enough minutes and enough burn with Steph/Dray/Wiggy. that way when Klay comes back it's the easiest transition and Poole/Lee are already in the roles they are supposed to be playing.

that said, Poole's gotta go back to the bench. -13 Net Rating, -6.4 BPM, 47 TS%...he's been absolutely terrible and doesn't seem to be a great fit w/ the starters.

tarantism · Post #7 » by **tarantism** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:02 pm

Lee is the guy who's earned the spot, and a logical substitute for Klay since he does some Klay-lite stuff out there but with Poole struggling I don't think they want to bench
JP yet and shatter his confidence. Kerr will give him a chance to work out of this slump.

I had a moment last night where I internally debated whether part of the reason they are giving him such a long leash is that they want to showcase him as the centerpiece going out of a deadline trade to add a useful vet. Klay should be 100% back by the deadline and we also have Moody and Lee on the bench.

Problem is, unless we combine him with Wiggins we don't really have the salary combos to add anybody since Poole only makes ~2m. They probably aren't doing that anyway and even if they are, Poole is playing like crap.

clyde21 · Post #8 » by **clyde21** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:05 pm

the more I look @ JP's advanced stuff the worse it gets:

47 TS%, 10 PER, .005 WS/48, -6.4 BPM, -13 Net Rating, -15.7 On/Off

obviously still early but these are brutal, im not sure how much longer we can keep him in the starting lineup without losing some RS games b/c of it.

Warriors Analyst · Post #9 » by **Warriors Analyst** » Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:32 pm

clyde21 wrote:the more I look @ JP's advanced stuff the worse it gets:

47 TS%, 10 PER, .005 WS/48, -6.4 BPM, -13 Net Rating, -15.7 On/Off

obviously still early but these are brutal, im not sure how much longer we can keep him in the starting lineup without losing some RS games b/c of it.

The shotmaking is brutal right now. I think he's actually been making good decisions the last few games, the shots simply aren't falling. Something I noticed last night is that Steph and Poole are very rarely playing off each other. Last season, the Warriors liked to run split post stuff with Steph and Poole screening for each other and I don't remember a single time the Warriors have done that this year...

Old_Blue · Post #10 » by **Old_Blue** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 12:01 am

Warriors Analyst wrote:
clyde21 wrote:the more I look @ JP's advanced stuff the worse it gets:

47 TS%, 10 PER, .005 WS/48, -6.4 BPM, -13 Net Rating, -15.7 On/Off

obviously still early but these are brutal, im not sure how much longer we can keep him in the starting lineup without losing some RS games b/c of it.

The shotmaking is brutal right now. I think he's actually been making good decisions the last few games, the shots simply aren't falling. Something I noticed last night is that Steph and Poole are very rarely playing off each other. Last season, the Warriors liked to run split post stuff with Steph and Poole screening for each other and I don't remember a single time the Warriors have done that this year...

The shot selection is what's brutal. I appreciate the aggressiveness with which he's taking it to the bucket. But, once he gets there, he's avoiding contact while trying circus shots. For him, that's just a terrible combination. :banghead:

a8bil · Post #11 » by **a8bil** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 12:21 am

Old_Blue wrote:
Warriors Analyst wrote:
clyde21 wrote:the more I look @ JP's advanced stuff the worse it gets:

47 TS%, 10 PER, .005 WS/48, -6.4 BPM, -13 Net Rating, -15.7 On/Off

obviously still early but these are brutal, im not sure how much longer we can keep him in the starting lineup without losing some RS games b/c of it.

The shotmaking is brutal right now. I think he's actually been making good decisions the last few games, the shots simply aren't falling. Something I noticed last night is that Steph and Poole are very rarely playing off each other. Last season, the Warriors liked to run split post stuff with Steph and Poole screening for each other and I don't remember a single time the Warriors have done that this year...

The shot selection is what's brutal. I appreciate the aggressiveness with which he's taking it to the bucket. But, once he gets there, he's avoiding contact while trying circus shots. For him, that's just a terrible combination.

Hmmm....not sure what you are saying. On the year, Poole is .762 on shots 0-3 feet from the hoop. Doesn't sound like he's having the problems you describe.

GunnerWRX · Post #12 » by **GunnerWRX** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 12:38 am

https://go.nba.com/jg46

Poole is going through a slump now for sure, but the starters are still +6.8 net rating. The net rating is brutal with Poole + the bench = -31.2 net rating!

Poole definitely needs to play better but he is not Oubre or Wiseman last year in the starting lineup - with a +6.8 net rating.

Given Poole played well last season, was nuclear in the pre-season, us being 5-1, and Lee playing well off the bench, I guess Poole will be given a bit more time as the starting SG.

Currently, Lee is averaging the same # of minutes as Poole, while Lee finishes games. So it is not like Poole is taking anything away from Lee.

I will just calm down re: Poole for now.

Jester_ · Post #13 » by **Jester_** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 1:06 am

This seems like a pointless optimization to make. Sounds like nearly no benefit while potentially Wisemanning Moody's development and alienating Poole.

clyde21 · Post #14 » by **clyde21** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 2:11 am

Jester_ wrote:This seems like a pointless optimization to make. Sounds like nearly no benefit while potentially Wisemanning Moody's development and alienating Poole.

you're not gonna Wiseman Moody, because Moody actually makes since in this system and scheme, Wiseman never did and never will be.

DevinVassell · Post #15 » by **DevinVassell** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 2:27 am

GunnerWRX wrote:https://go.nba.com/jg46

Poole is going through a slump now for sure, but the starters are still +6.8 net rating. The net rating is brutal with Poole + the bench = -31.2 net rating!

Poole definitely needs to play better but he is not Oubre or Wiseman last year in the starting lineup - with a +6.8 net rating.

Given Poole played well last season, was nuclear in the pre-season, us being 5-1, and Lee playing well off the bench, I guess Poole will be given a bit more time as the starting SG.

Currently, Lee is averaging the same # of minutes as Lee, while Lee finishes games. So it is not like Poole is taking anything away from Lee.

I will just calm down re: Poole for now.

Yes! Yall grasshoppers need some patience. Give Poole another 5 games to settle with the starters before pulling him.

If there is still no improvement, bench his arse.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #16 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 2:41 am

Id even give GP2 a chance to start. He would give a team a jolt at the start of his game with his defensive tenacity. Although, it will still be Poole and Lee eating the bulk of the SG minutes.

vagelis · Post #17 » by **vagelis** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 3:06 am

Lee could be the starter I agree.
Another option is to move Wiggins to sg position and start Otto Porter or Kuminga at 3.
Poole can run the second unit, he wants to be the focal point in offense while he cannot do that against starters.

EvanZ · Post #18 » by **EvanZ** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 3:08 am

Poole is the guy who should get used to the 6th man role when Klay comes back. Lee should have been the starter from the jump.

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Commodor · Post #19 » by **Commodor** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 6:34 am

100% in.

Love Poole running with the second unit, being the primary ball handler.

Agree Lee has earned that spot as of now. Ask wouldn’t hate sliding JTA in at SF & Wiggins at SG against some bigger line ups.

Klay is taking that spot eventually so may as well develop a couple people with the starting line up.

Impuniti · Post #20 » by **Impuniti** » Mon Nov 1, 2021 12:48 pm

EvanZ wrote:Poole is the guy who should get used to the 6th man role when Klay comes back. Lee should have been the starter from the jump.

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It's easy to pretend and act like it's the right decision now, but noone saw Lee elevating his game and Poole being worse than last season. If Poole gets to his old season form or even improves as we wanted to, this conversation doesn't exist.