Guard rotations, changing Westbrook’s role

stan francisco · Post #1 » by **stan francisco** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:21 pm

In my opinion, Westbrook has always been a SG, not a PG.

Rondo doesn’t play much defense during regular season, and Nunn is injured. Avery Bradley is an awful shooter and he’s slowing down defensively due to age and regular season boredom.

So, even when fully healthy, we still need a real PG to stop the leaking; a defensive minded stud who doesn’t turn the ball over. That player needs to be the exact opposite of Westbrook.

To me, THT will probably be our best regular season defensive PG talent (switchable due to length) once healthy and back in rhythm. Maybe Nunn but I don’t think he’ll beat THT to it. I’d predict THT will outplay anyone defensively for the PG job if we asked him to go for it.

Offensively, I think that Westbrook should be our weak side wing rim-attacker SG/SF and nothing else, and be designated defensively a 1-on-1 assignment or two for each game so we don’t have to hide him so much defensively. For instance, I’d put him on shutting down Herro tonight. Butler would get him in foul trouble in the first two minutes. He still might by switching because Westbrook is not a smart defender.

Russ has the athleticism to be great defensively, but needs endless film sessions with Frank to adjust and understand what it’s like to play shut-down team defense. It’s a mindset and a skill that can be learned, nothing else. Teach him how to want it, Frank! (Prediction: he won’t get it and we will trade him in the off-season.)

Westbrook gets his assists due to being great at attacking like a SG does, not because of genius level playmaking talent. I personally never understood why any coach ever played him as a PG. He plays one on five, period. I often had the same criticism for Kobe (RIP). When the ball swings around to each team mate without too many dribbles and bounces, the game is played the right way. See Phil Jackson’s teams. Actually, see current GSW. Positioning, strategy, movement off the ball.

In other words, when healthy I’d like Frank to start a lineup that’s something like this:

PG: THT
SG: Monk
SF: Westbrook
PF: James
C: Anthony

or maybe

PG: THT
SG: Westbrook/Bradley/Monk
SF: Ariza
PF: LBJ
C: AD

This team running the break in the regular season needs no offensive coaching. This team running the break at all, however, requires defense!!!

This is why I think that Westbrook can no longer play PG for this team; his defense ruins everything.

So, what do you guys think about Frank moving Russ to the SG or SF? Think it’ll help our defense? Think THT can handle the PG defensive role I suggest?

Thoughts?

Eric Bieniemy · Post #2 » by **Eric Bieniemy** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:46 pm

He only knows how to play one way, and that involves the ball being in his hands.

Have you ever watched Westbrook when he doesn't have the ball? He is a statue.

Scott Brooks didn't teach him a thing about the nuances of winning basketball.

Mamba Mentality · Post #3 » by **Mamba Mentality** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:20 pm

Cant be a starting two guard in this league when you're a liability as a shooter. Only other role he could occupy would be 6th man role heading the second unit.

Also laughed at the notion that we could somehow turn this man into a lockdown defender when he has been flat out lazy and gambling for stats for years now. He's as dead set in his ways as any player in the league, would be a tall order to get him to break his old habits (as proven so far this year).

Post #4 » by **Kilroy** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:21 pm

Since AD is basically no longer a stretch anything on offense...

Westbrook
THT
Lebron
Melo
AD

And

Rondo
THT
LeBron
AD
Dwight

Ball so hard · Post #5 » by **Ball so hard** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:15 pm

THT is more than adequate on defense. However, offense would be a disaster due to lack of spacing. Neither Lebron nor AD has changed their game despite what they said about sacrificing to accommodate Westbrook’s play style. AD shoots Russ and AD are shooting a combined less than 30% from deep; THT was awful from 3 last season. The biggest issue I have with THT starting is not even his poor shooting percentage, it’s actually his play style. He’s an attacking guard; Russ is an attacking guard. AD likes to shoot fade away jump shots while on the block. Lebron will sometimes spot up. A starting lineup with THT makes for a very predictable offense… simply sag 2-3 feet off anyone on the perimeter not named Lebron. Melo would help with spacing, but it’s unlikely Vogel would move him from the bench where he’s been very productive to a starting role.

I never quite understood the inclination and borderline obsession with starting THT.

Pythagoras · Post #6 » by **Pythagoras** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:35 pm

Ball so hard wrote:THT is more than adequate on defense. However, offense would be a disaster due to lack of spacing. Neither Lebron nor AD has changed their game despite what they said about sacrificing to accommodate Westbrook’s play style. AD shoots Russ and AD are shooting a combined less than 30% from deep; THT was awful from 3 last season. The biggest issue I have with THT starting is not even his poor shooting percentage, it’s actually his play style. He’s an attacking guard; Russ is an attacking guard. AD likes to shoot fade away jump shots while on the block. Lebron will sometimes spot up. A starting lineup with THT makes for a very predictable offense… simply sag 2-3 feet off anyone on the perimeter not named Lebron. Melo would help with spacing, but it’s unlikely Vogel would move him from the bench where he’s been very productive to a starting role.

I never quite understood the inclination and borderline obsession with starting THT.

Agreed. THT doesn’t belong in the starting lineup with RW, AD, and Lebron. That’s a recipe for disaster offensively. Assuming they’re not going to trade him, he can help this team defensively while coming off the bench though.

SlimShady83 · Post #7 » by **SlimShady83** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:34 am

I haven't read all the replies or the thread busy at lol.

I recon Russ should start and play 1-8 minutes after that let him play with the 2nd unit and bring in Rondo or who ever to replace Russ with the starters.

One thing I've always hated about players is they cry about having to start or being benched..

If it were me I wouldn't care if I was starting or a bench player, you play hard and good, you'll probably end up playing more minutes anyway.

People gotta stop being soft and just play hard

Post #8 » by **Kilroy** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:22 am

THT
Monk
Melo
LeBron
AD

Dmagic · Post #9 » by **Dmagic** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:27 pm

tht way overrated around here. if vogel smart he will stick with monk and ab

Dmagic · Post #10 » by **Dmagic** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:29 pm

tht and westbrook would be a turnover avalanche. ab, monk have proven to be good wingmen for russ

stan francisco · Post #11 » by **stan francisco** » Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:42 pm

Dmagic wrote:tht way overrated around here. if vogel smart he will stick with monk and ab

That could be. We’ll see. I predict a breakout year for him once he’s healthy and back in the flow.

stan francisco · Post #12 » by **stan francisco** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:55 pm

I’ve missed the games since THT came back. What’s the take on his form and how it relates to this topic?

euphorbus · Post #13 » by **euphorbus** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:09 pm

stan francisco wrote:I’ve missed the games since THT came back. What’s the take on his form and how it relates to this topic?

Yesterday was the first game back. He did very well. Tune in tonight to see Act II.

Eric Bieniemy · Post #14 » by **Eric Bieniemy** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:23 am

stan francisco wrote:I’ve missed the games since THT came back. What’s the take on his form and how it relates to this topic?

He played great and served as the defensive SF for most of game. His offensive was to be expected. He played his game, driving and hitting a variety of midrange shots. He's an exquisite finisher.

None of this is surprising at all.

He shot 1 for 5 from three. This is what we need to pay close attention to, particularly his catch and shoot threes. These are the shots he will get and have to make when James gets back.

stan francisco · Post #15 » by **stan francisco** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:04 pm

Eric Bieniemy wrote:
stan francisco wrote:I’ve missed the games since THT came back. What’s the take on his form and how it relates to this topic?

He played great and served as the defensive SF for most of game. His offensive was to be expected. He played his game, driving and hitting a variety of midrange shots. He's an exquisite finisher.

None of this is surprising at all.

He shot 1 for 5 from three. This is what we need to pay close attention to, particularly his catch and shoot threes. These are the shots he will get and have to make when James gets back.

Yes. Same for Westbrook, lol. Seriously, it should be.

I’d like to see Russ or whomever is our PG to play PG defense. That’s the biggest fire right now.

THT is the least of my worries. I worry more about the health of LBJ, RR, AD, Ariza; and I worry more about the play of Westbrook, Bazemore, DAJ.

danfantastk32 · Post #16 » by **danfantastk32** » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:18 am

Mamba Mentality wrote:Cant be a starting two guard in this league when you're a liability as a shooter.

I know right?? The guy is a living barf-bag, when it comes to shooting. He's not sub-par...he's total sh**

This was the 2nd issue I had with signing him from the getgo. We needed A) a pg type guy that would play defense, who didn't really need the ball. <----- The exact opposite of Westbrook.
And then who B) could catch and shoot. <------- Also not Westbrook.

Honestly, it's pretty annoying listening to the analysts who thought this was a great signing....and STILL hold onto it. Enough already. They guy is a dud. Complete stat-who*re who plays no defense, and can't shoot from further than 3 feet. The total opposite of what this team needed.

The only 2 questions left at this point is can Lebron / Westbrook / AD come to terms amicably that this is a total disaster, and agree that Westbrook needs to move on immediately, and then can the Lakers get ANYTHING slightly decent for him?

I mean....I'd take Schroeder back in a straight trade at this point. I would take Caruso as a straight trade. This guys is literally a straight up negative. I'd love the see the Lakers just stop playing him altogether, if a deal couldnt be found. Just pay the guy, and tell him to enjoy Cancun, or something.