How Would Larry Bird Rate Against Todays' Players?

[BoatsNZones]

If Bird was playing today, the discussion would be Bird or Jordan for GOAT.

Bird would crush, but MJ would very, very clearly be the best player in the NBA if his 87-93 self was transported. Which is insane to say given it was >30 years ago. He'd still be the most athletic player in the game on top of the most skilled and hardest working. He would absolutely dominate.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

The comparisons to Luka and Jokic are weird.

If anything he would be the equivalent of KD.

Even though I have not seen enough Doncic, I have seen enough Doncic to know the comparison makes sense.
Even though Jokic is bigger and is carrying arround some fat in addition to being a larger framed man The Bird Jokic similarities are blatantly obvious.

These comparisons are not weird and they make more sense than a Bird Durant comparison.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

If Bird was playing today, the discussion would be Bird or Jordan for GOAT.

The young guys who insist that basketball was vastly inferior in the 1980s would insist that Bird playing today was better than Jordan just as they insisit that LeBron is better than Jordan.

The game changed but the game was also good in the 1980s. Give an 1980s champion team modern 3 point shooting, familiarty with modern rules and strategies and teach the 1980s teams to travel, flop, and whine to the refs and the 1980s championship team will beat the modern championship teams.

An 1980s champion can not beat a modern champion without modern 3 point shooting. More than the legal zone or anything else, 3 point shooting has changed the game.

Now 1960s ball? They really did look bad to me. But I have to remember that 1980s dribbling was traveling by 1960s rules and 2200 dribbling is traveling by 1980s rules. Ball players look more fluid when they don't have to dribble the ball so much. 1960s mid range shooting was horrible by 1980s standards. 1980s 3 point shooting was horrible by modern standards. When I watch film of the walt Frazier in the early 1970s he looks like a modern ball player to ne except he does not shoot 3s.



The jump in talent and athleticism from the 1950s to 1960s was much bigger than the jump in talent and athleticism from the 1980s to now.The jump in talent and athleticism from the 1960s to 1970 and 1970s to 1980s was much bigger than the jump in talent and athleticism from the 1980s to now. But without better 3 point shooting 1980 teams can't compete with current teams.

In 10 years I am going to enjoy hearing the young folk at Realgm saying that LeBron is overrated and that there are 5 guys playing in the 2030s who are better than peak LeBron. They will be saying that 2010s basketball was weak and that the modern 2030s players are so much better. It won't be true but as an old man I think I will enjoy watching the human nature of youg fans repeat itself.

Oh, and kids, your mom and dad did know how to have sex. You are not from a virgin birth.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

If Bird was playing today, the discussion would be Bird or Jordan for GOAT.

Bird would crush, but MJ would very, very clearly be the best player in the NBA if his 87-93 self was transported. Which is insane to say given it was >30 years ago. He'd still be the most athletic player in the game on top of the most skilled and hardest working. He would absolutely dominate.

if I based my decission on stats alone, I would say LeBron was better than Jordan. LeBron's scoring efficiency was better than Jordan's.
But young LeBron played the game in a similar style to Jordan. This comparison of greatness is not as difficult as comparing Shaq to Jordan where they are playing a completely different game.

If the LeBron fans don't want to aknollege that Jordan was scoring against packed in defenses and LeBron was slicing through defenses that were soread out by 3 point shooters then whatever. The hand check also mattered.

Prime Jordan would slice and dice modern spread out defenses.

[DCasey91]

Watch on YouTube

Bird is a bad man. Achilles injury, major back surgery the whole works. 49/14/12 in his last playing year

I’d envision it more or less a 6”9” lean Dirk centric offense onball/offball outside/post shooting/scoring with Lebron level playmaking to subvert the height difference and Hondo (less motor) on defense. Would be unbelievable

Only person to win ROY, MVP, Finals MVP, COY, EOY. 68.7% W/R as a coach. Cold blooded stare after the infamous Miller shot.

I believe if Bird/Magic had a full unimpeded run at it they’d both be top 5 locks all time.

Depends on which version/year but Prime Larry would be best player in the comp at least very much in the convo for it. Heck 81-88’ is at min top 3-1 hands down best player easy. Because he has the highest MVP finishes ever during that timespan (didnt finish lower the third lol).

Watch on YouTube

84 would be 1 at worst 2 in the league. Probably the best player in the comp no doubt.

[LascelleL]

I truly believe he would be far away the best player in the league.

[nate33]

I think yall are romanticizing Birds outside shot a bit. He's a career 37.6 % 3 point shooter. He was given open 3s.

He was in the era where you didnt take a million bad 3 pointers. Remember, Steph changed the game and now logo shots and contested 3s are fine. The game has been changed for the better, right?

I think most here are assuming that if Bird played now, he'd emphasize the aspects of his game that would work under the current rules: i.e. he would practice and take more threes. He'd be a better 3-point shooter if he worked on it instead of working on his midrange game so much.

[Haldi]

If Bird was playing today, the discussion would be Bird or Jordan for GOAT.

The young guys who insist that basketball was vastly inferior in the 1980s would insist that Bird playing today was better than Jordan just as they insisit that LeBron is better than Jordan.

The game changed but the game was also good in the 1980s. Give an 1980s champion team modern 3 point shooting, familiarty with modern rules and strategies and teach the 1980s teams to travel, flop, and whine to the refs and the 1980s championship team will beat the modern championship teams.

An 1980s champion can not beat a modern champion without modern 3 point shooting. More than the egal zone or anything else, 3 point shooting has changed the game.

Now 1960s ball? They really did look bad to me. But I have to remember that 1980s dribbling was traveling by 1960s rules and 2200 dribbling is traveling by 1980s rules. Ball players look more fluid when they don't have to dribble the ball so much. 1960s mid range shooting was horrible by 1980s standards. 1980s 3 point shooting was horrible by modern standards. When I watch film of the walt Frazier in the early 1970s he looks like a modern ball player to ne except he does not shoot 3s.



The jump in talent and athleticism from the 1950s to 1960s was much bigger than the jump in talent and athleticism from the 1980s to now.The jump in talent and athleticism from the 1960s to 1970 and 1970s to 1980s was much bigger than the jump in talent and athleticism from the 1980s to now. But without better 3 point shooting 1980 teams can't compete with current teams.

In 10 years I am going to enjoy hearing the young folk at Realgm saying that LeBron is overrated and that there are 5 guys playing in the 2030s who are better than peak LeBron. They will be saying that 2010s basketball was weak and that the modern 2030s players are so much better. It won't be true but as an old man I think I will enjoy watching the human nature of youg fans repeat itself.

Oh, and kids, your mom and dad did know how to have sex. You are not from a virgin birth.

But it will be true.. I’m an old guy on here that recognizes that todays players are better than the players I grew up watching. And I don’t doubt whatsoever that in 20 years players might be even better than today. Just like players in the 50 and 60s were the worst NBA players. The league was brand new back then and the popularity of the sport was non existent compared to today. Every skill in the game is trained a million times more by todays players than it was back then.

Look at any other sport too and its the same. Whos a better hitter, the Babe or someone like Barry Bonds? Maurice Richard or Crosby? I know nothing about soccer but the same can be said there too, player today is a much better soccer player than the best guy 40-50 years ago. Most of this is recognized in every other sport, but not basketball. And yes, there are some old farts still saying things like the Babe would be better than every hitter today, but most of us see they’re just delusional… but not in basketball.

I do agree with you that difference in 1 or 2 generations is small, but when you look at 5+ generations ago and you still think that the players from back then are better, thats just sad.

Basketball is such a young sport, and the craze for it only started 40 and more 30 years ago. Since then, and because of guys like the MJs and the Bird, the popularity of the sport has skyrocketed and todays players train much harder than ever before.. to be Like Mike.

The best basketball is being played today and it will continue to improve and improve. The only thing that can and would change that is if it suddenly started losing popularity and interest around the world. But the popularity of the sport is insane right now and we are gonna keep seeing a league with multiple MJ level players, instead of just one like when he played.

I personally cannot wait to see a new player make Curry look like an average shooter just like Curry makes Bird look like an average shooter. I don’t know if we’ll get to see it but I sure hope so. This is only good for the league!!

[Hold That]

A white American player in today’s game with his skill set? He'd be marketed as the best player in the league and deservingly so.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Watch on YouTube

Bird is a bad man. Achilles injury, major back surgery the whole works. 49/14/12 in his last playing year

I’d envision it more or less a 6”9” lean Dirk centric offense onball/offball outside/post shooting/scoring with Lebron level playmaking to subvert the height difference and Hondo (less motor) on defense. Would be unbelievable
.

That video is from near the end of Bird's last year. He only played 45 games because his injuries were stopping him. Then Bird and McHale retire an Reggie Lewis drops dead.
This year of that video Reggie Lewis was the leading scorer. The next year with Bird gone Lewis becomes the undisputed first option on the celtics. Then Lewis drops dead from a freak heart condition and the Celtics have 8 years of losing records.

What is interesting about this last year of Bird is that the aging big 3 of Bird McHale and Parish as a supporting cast for Lewis plus strength in numbers was able to make the Celtics a 50 win team.

As Curry Draymond and Klay fade they can do the same thing for the Warriors. With Poole or Wigins as our Rggie Lewis and strength in numbers plus Steph, Dray Klay providing leadership and occasion big games the Warriors can be a 50 win teamm for years despite Steph, Klay and Dray fading toowards retirement. The old guys may not be able to carry the team but they may not have to carry the team. If steph Klay and Dray can handle fading out they can be useful peices as they fade out.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Bird was an inconsistent shooter. When he was hot he could not miss but he had plenty of nights where his shot would not drop. On those nights he could still help with rebounding and passing but somebody else ghad better be hitting their shots.

[lamscott]

A white American player in today’s game with his skill set? He'd be marketed as the best player in the league and deservingly so.

He was marketed as that in the 80s too.

[Hold That]

A white American player in today’s game with his skill set? He'd be marketed as the best player in the league and deservingly so.

He was marketed as that in the 80s too.

Very true and not much has changed from the 80s to today. Luka is a perfect example the media is clamoring for him to be great. And bird is twice the player Luka is and American born.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

If Bird was playing today, the discussion would be Bird or Jordan for GOAT.

The young guys who insist that basketball was vastly inferior in the 1980s would insist that Bird playing today was better than Jordan just as they insisit that LeBron is better than Jordan.

In 10 years I am going to enjoy hearing the young folk at Realgm saying that LeBron is overrated and that there are 5 guys playing in the 2030s who are better than peak LeBron. They will be saying that 2010s basketball was weak and that the modern 2030s players are so much better. It won't be true but as an old man I think I will enjoy watching the human nature of youg fans repeat itself.
Oh, and kids, your mom and dad did know how to have sex. You are not from a virgin birth.

But it will be true..

No, it won't be true.
LeBron hasn't been better than Jordan but young stat heads don't believe that Jordan was better than LeBron
We are very quickly coming to a time when fans won't have seen LeBron play and won't believe how good LeBron was. Maybe the stats will back the LeBron fans up better than the stats back up the Jordan fans.

I’m an old guy on here that recognizes that todays players are better than the players I grew up watching. And I don’t doubt whatsoever that in 20 years players might be even better than today. Just like players in the 50 and 60s were the worst NBA players. The league was brand new back then and the popularity of the sport was non existent compared to today. Every skill in the game is trained a million times more by todays players than it was back then.

When is back then?
1960s and 1950s, I agree basketball was not what it is now. But some old guys older than me claim my bias afainst 1960s basketball is wrong and is not so different from the bias of the young today against 1980s ball. I am going with my eyes. I have watched a fair ammount of 1960s video. But you fans today make the same claim ofbthev1980s and 1990s. They have watched video and claim something was wrong with that era. To me there are significant differences between 1980s and 1990s. But I am not buying that has been any major improvement in the 2,000s other than 3 point shooting. But good 3 point completely changes the look of the game. [/quote]

Look at any other sport too and its the same. Whos a better hitter, the Babe or someone like Barry Bonds? Maurice Richard or Crosby?

I could have watched the end of Bill Russell as a child but the Celtics had a lousy TV deal and were never on TV. So i watched hockey.
Bobby Orr was the big deal in Massachussetts and Bill Russell suspected racism. I think Russell was wrong. All of Orr's games were on TV if you got a converter box to recieve UHF channels. As a teenager I tried to watch the Cowens Celtics. I got bored watching the players slowly walk up to the free throw line. I want to watch people walking around aimlessly I could go to the shopping mall. Those guys in the 1970s took forever to shoot their free throws. The NBA cracked down on all the walking arround before free throws so the by the 1980s that problem was fixed.

As for 1970s Hockey vs modern Hockey i also think the young fans exagerate the progress. The Hockey players are 2 inches bigger now and that would be a problem for my 1970s Don Cherry Bruins. i hear fans today bitching about the neutral zone trap and I laugh. Bruins played on a small rink and handled blue line pinches just fine because they had better hockey skills than the modern players. Modern players skate faster and are bigger but their hockey IQ is weaker and their stickhandling and passing is weaker compared to my 1970s bruins. But I need to remember that my 1970s Bruins were one of the best teams in the league and had better skills than the rest of the league.

I know nothing about soccer but the same can be said there too, player today is a much better soccer player than the best guy 40-50 years ago. Most of this is recognized in every other sport, but not basketball. And yes, there are some old farts still saying things like the Babe would be better than every hitter today, but most of us see they’re just delusional… but not in basketball.

Baseball is a great fit for radio and is the best Radio sport. Babe Ruth's generation were children and adults when radio was dominant. And farm fields were good for playing baseball. America had a lot less people during Babe Ruth's time but baseball was the dominant sport. Football works well on TV. You pay attention, relax during the huddle and then pay attention again. Football is prabably the best TV sport.

Babe Ruth may really have been that great but he should not have been Overweight. One issue is steroids. How much better could Babe Ruth have been on steroids? I can't rule out the possibility that the pitchers might have been better when Ruth Played. I think the radar guns have established that the fast ball has gotten faster but I could be wrong. Then there are changes in the baseball. Live ball, dead ball. I am not not enough of a baseball fan to speculate wether it was easier to be a hittervin Babe's time or now.

I do agree with you that difference in 1 or 2 generations is small, but when you look at 5+ generations ago and you still think that the players from back then are better, thats just sad.

5 generations? I figure a generation is 25 years. I think the young folks dismissal of the past is more severe than the old folks nostalgia.
Over at the player comparisons board I have often seen people putting forward the idea that bird can't play in this currently league and that Bird would just be an average player now. If I'm talking peak Bird being placed into the 2021-22 NBA when there isn't a clear-cut greater than everybody else player now that LeBron has gotten old then I think Bird woukd be the best player, not an average player. What are the kids thinking. Sure Bird is not fast but he was faster than Jokic and Dirk. Sometimes I thought the kids are just trolling the old people but most of the kids saying Bird would be average today seemed to be serious.

Basketball is such a young sport, and the craze for it only started 40 and more 30 years ago. Since then, and because of guys like the MJs and the Bird, the popularity of the sport has skyrocketed and todays players train much harder than ever before.. to be Like Mike.

The best basketball is being played today and it will continue to improve and improve. The only thing that can and would change that is if it suddenly started losing popularity and interest around the world. But the popularity of the sport is insane right now and we are gonna keep seeing a league with multiple MJ level players, instead of just one like when he played.

I personally cannot wait to see a new player make Curry look like an average shooter just like Curry makes Bird look like an average shooter. I don’t know if we’ll get to see it but I sure hope so. This is only good for the league!!

If the Chinese all start playing basketball they will produce some great basketball players.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

My imaginary "Dream Team" featuring Magic Draymond Bird point forward:

The 2016 Warriors were the prettiest team but were they best..
They were even prettier than the 1982 Lakers

If I want them to be the best, the overwhelming prettiest and the tuffest
I need to add a little something.

First let grab what I want from the 2017 Warriors
Durant, West and JaVale for the pretty dunks
Then lets add the 1982 lakers minus Kareem for the Showtime fast break to make them even prettier. Why no Kareem? Kareem threw outlet passes for that fast break but I don't want his sky hook competing with pretty offense.

Lets add Bird for toughness and Larry Smith for toughness
Lets add Nash for prettyness
Lets add Cousey for prettyness
Lets add Dikembe for defense
Jordan for indisputable greatness, Pippen because you can't break up the set
Rodman with his most amusing hair colors
Bernard King for being the most underated plaer ever, and for being able be be the unstoppable go to guy within the flow of an offense,
Pete Maravich for fun and pretty

Globetrotters for pretty and fun
Marquess Haynes
Curley Neal
Sweel Lou Dunbar 6-9
Geese Ausbie 6-5
Robert Showboat hall 6-2
GooseTatum 6-4

The 1960s Celtics Did not dominate the NBA. They were not more talented.


Ezeli, Dikembe Mutombo (if the oppant tries to run a half court offense, Dikembe might mess that up)
Bogut, Rambis, Javale (I love JaVale's dunks, Rambis runs the floor well and will put JaVale in a position to dunk.

Speights, Larry Smith, Sweet Lou Dunbar, David West, Don Nelson Speight's smile but with Mister Mean Larry Smith's iron will

Draymond, Satch Sanders, Bird, Magic, Nash, Goose Tatum
Bird makes Draymond hard as nails, Magic and Nash make Draymond the ultimate point forward, Satch Sanders knows Russell is the leader,Sanders knows how to win close games. I think Draymond is funny. Others think Draymond is a Jerk, With Goose Tatum in the mix Draymond will be seen as funny, not a jerk.

James Michael Mcadoo,
Brandon Rush
(OK there are 2 mortals on the team)


Barnes, Durant (plus every 5th open corner 3 is guided into the hoop in addition to what Barnes can do without help. The point of this is to make the corner 3 so effective that the Barnes corner 3 is better than Durants offense. I am trying to stop
Durant from changing the spacing and flow of the 2016 Warriors offense, Kevin Durant, Bob McAdoo (Bob McAdoo will stop Barnes from having his shot tighten up under pressre) Bill Russell, Michael Cooper, Geese Ausbie (i have created the ultimate denfensive Monster with Cooper and Russell) Russell the ultimated leader and coach on the floor. Durant wanted the Warriors to be his team, Russell with all thoughs Celtics make the Warriors Durant's team. Russell knows how to put team above individual players.

Klay Thompson, Jamal Wilkes, Meadow Lark Lemon (so much for serious Klay, the Globetrotter's best funny man is added in, Wilt Chamberlain claims Meadow Lark is the best player ever, better than Jordan, wilt is known to exagerated but if the claim is even half true that is something. Meadow Lark did have great ball control, Sam Jones knows Russell is the leader. Sam Jones was a clutch scorer.Sam Jones's sharp angle bank shots is a go to move that isn't something Klay utilizes much. Scottie Pippen to beast on defense. I think Meadow can handle the passing but if he can't Pippen can.

Sean Livingston, A 2nd copy of Michael Cooper, you can never get enough Coop-a-loop) Frank Ramsey, Rodman (twisted comedy)

Barbosa, Curley Neal
Ian Clark, Robert Showboat Hall

Curry, Norm Nixon, Nixon turns curry into a fast point guard who can guard Kyrie, Marques Haynes, there are not many dribblers better than Curry but Marquess Haynes might be one. KC Jones, Bob Cousy (some really pretty passes)

Iguodala, Havlicek infinite stamina and hustle, Bernard King almost as good as Jordan but with a less ball dominant style, Jordan, Maravich has skills, a 2nd copy of Brandon Rush to help with the corner 3 (adding a love of coming off the bench because this guy is supposed to carry the bench unit offense which was sometimes a problem for the 2016 Warriors,Havilcek and Iguodala came off the bench but I don't want Jordan and King getting pissy about coming off the bench) a 2nd copy of Meadow Lark Lemon for more fun. Larry Siegfried so that Jordan knows Russell is the leader. The 1969 Celtics were too old, finished, but they won the championship anyway with Siegfried as their point guard. This player would be the GOAt player if the GOAT player isn't a center. You can be Jordan intense and Meadowlark fun. Meadowlark was also an intense perfectionist but part of his perfectionism was used to perfect the comedy routines.

[Johnny Firpo]

luka is a better version of bird and mvp caliber.

um yeah, no. when Luka beats great teams with defense let us know.

Watch on YouTube

Luka is considerably better than 22-year-old Bird was, that's all we know at this point. We'll see how Luka does when he is 24, 25, 26.

[Big J]

When comping Bird & Bron there is an easy way to understand the mindset between the two of them. Bird, when asked to do the 3 point contest savagely walked into the locker room and asked who was getting second place. Bron, when asked to do the dunk contest, something he would have won handily without even trying, wussed out and refused to ever participate.

[Schiltzenberger]

Bird's athleticism is a little underrated. Yeah, he couldn't jump, but he wasn't slow.

Peak Bird got up and down the court pretty quick, with or without the ball. He moved his feet quick while making moves, moves that were made at pace. He just wasn't a leaper.

I'd say 80s Bird was faster than current day Luka.

[vanhalen26]

Just can't different times, different skills.

[Big J]

The guy was a man's man. He busted dudes up during the game and downed 6er's of Budweiser afterwards. The thought of him bringing a purse to a press conference like todays guys is laughable.