2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Doctor MJ]

The thing with the Morris-Jokic situation I don't see brought up is time and score. It happened with 2:39 left in the 4th and the Nuggets up by 17. Game is decided, and there's no reason for a take foul of any kind at that point, let alone a cheap shot one. But Morris gotta Morris.

And of course this is why many of us struggle not to say something like "Morris deserves to be beaten down whenever other players feel like it."

[parsnips33]

I definitely expected Sixers to struggle out the gate with all the Simmons drama, but they've kept chugging along just fine. Haven't had the chance to watch them this year, what's the story? Are they playing more or less the same style as last season?

[Colbinii]

I definitely expected Sixers to struggle out the gate with all the Simmons drama, but they've kept chugging along just fine. Haven't had the chance to watch them this year, what's the story? Are they playing more or less the same style as last season?

Essentially the team has been lights out on off-the-dribble two's and will regress to the mean. Seth Curry set the record for efficiency at his volume for the first 8 and 10 games of a season.

Insanely hot shooting is the story.

[falcolombardi]

the knee hit by morris was definitely worst than i thought at first

now i think both should be suspended or maybe a flagrant 2 for morris and a suspensión of 1-2 games for jokic

[Doctor MJ]

the knee hit by morris was definitely worst than i thought at first

now i think both should be suspended or maybe a flagrant 2 for morris and a suspensión of 1-2 games for jokic

I won't complain if that's what happens, but in general I think the guy who started it should get at least as much punishment as the guy who responded, particularly when the guy who started it is a non-star and he's doing it to a star.

I remain forever scarred by Horry checking Nash off the court and the result being that Amar'e & Diaw got suspended. To me the clear right action was to suspend neither of the Suns in that case, or perhaps to hold Horry up while Amar'e beat Horry to the point he never got to hit a "big shot" again.

I have very low tolerance for guys who start s**t repeatedly and benefit from it because the rules are overly rigid.

[Peregrine01]

I think Jokic responded the way he did also because of how frustrated he is with how he's reffed. He takes more licks than any other player and because he's so big, refs often turn a blind eye and let defenders rough him up. I've noticed that he's playing a lot more physically lately, perhaps thinking that since the officials are going to let his defenders play on, he will too. Shaq dealt with similar problems when he played.

[Doctor MJ]

I think Jokic responded the way he did also because of how frustrated he is with how he's reffed. He takes more licks than any other player and because he's so big, refs often turn a blind eye and let defenders rough him up. I've noticed that he's playing a lot more physically lately, perhaps thinking that since the officials are going to let his defenders play on, he will too. Shaq dealt with similar problems when he played.

Shaq actually swung at a guy (Brad Miller) with a punch that could have caused serious brain damage. He just missed.

I continue to marvel that Jokic did what he did simply with his shoulder. The result looked like a vicious attack, but Jokic was absolutely holding back.

[eminence]

Related - Embiid absolutely deserved a suspension for that swing that nearly clocked Lonzo.

[Heej]

My super hot take right now is that D Rose is the best point guard to ever come off the bench in NBA history. Dude would smoke A LOT of starters in the league right now. Hell, he's the best point guard in his own team lol.

I don't know about that lol but yeah, I wrote about him on the GB the other day. He's been very good:

Yep, for anyone who's actually paid attention, he's totally revamped his game. You have the pull-up three-point shooting which is obviously new, but his under the rim game is amazing. He still has a great first step and has figured out how to take advantage of the defense without his leaping ability. He can stop on a dime and hit these little turn around push shots right in the paint. He has great touch around the basket and is still a solid finisher.

And no, he should not be starting. He's in the perfect role constantly attacking and actually passing when the opportunity presents itself. There are enough playmakers in the starting lineup where he wouldn't be as effective. The connection he has with thibs is clearly strong because it makes a huge difference. He's as even keeled as they get as this point in his career.

[I'll also note that rose was relatively awful for the Knicks in his first stint here. Only his stans can't see the difference in his play now vs back then.]

Sounds ridiculous no? Then when you think about it, most of the great bench guards were all 2 guards. The best bench PG I can think of is Vinnie Johnson on the Pistons and young Steve Nash behind Kidd and KJ. Respectfully I'm taking current D Rose over them.

[yoyoboy]

Read on Twitter

Sexton being out is gonna unleash this kid. He just needs to start letting it fly because 5.5 three point attempts per game just isn’t enough for him.

[BIGJ1ER]

Read on Twitter

Sexton being out is gonna unleash this kid. He just needs to start letting it fly because 5.5 three point attempts per game just isn’t enough for him.

This is really interesting.

I agree, I've been loving watching the cavs this year, and I've seen garland pass up way too many semi open looks or look hesitant to shoot, it's strange. I think he could definetly be averaging 20 a game, especially with Sexton out. Him and mobley are a really interesting core to watch, I still think they need a wing, I think okoro will project to be their 2 in time, not sure who they can realistically acquire that matches the timeline.

[RCM88x]

Read on Twitter

Sexton being out is gonna unleash this kid. He just needs to start letting it fly because 5.5 three point attempts per game just isn’t enough for him.

This is really interesting.

I agree, I've been loving watching the cavs this year, and I've seen garland pass up way too many semi open looks or look hesitant to shoot, it's strange. I think he could definetly be averaging 20 a game, especially with Sexton out. Him and mobley are a really interesting core to watch, I still think they need a wing, I think okoro will project to be their 2 in time, not sure who they can realistically acquire that matches the timeline.

People obsess over timelines way too often and it usually results in teams making a bad move.

You try to get the best guy you can, doesn't matter if he's 23 or 29.

[BIGJ1ER]

Read on Twitter

Sexton being out is gonna unleash this kid. He just needs to start letting it fly because 5.5 three point attempts per game just isn’t enough for him.

This is really interesting.

I agree, I've been loving watching the cavs this year, and I've seen garland pass up way too many semi open looks or look hesitant to shoot, it's strange. I think he could definetly be averaging 20 a game, especially with Sexton out. Him and mobley are a really interesting core to watch, I still think they need a wing, I think okoro will project to be their 2 in time, not sure who they can realistically acquire that matches the timeline.

People obsess over timelines way too often and it usually results in teams making a bad move.

You try to get the best guy you can, doesn't matter if he's 23 or 29.

TBH I think most teams seem to do otherwise and it gimps them. Look at the pelicans with both AD and Zion, cashing in picks and younger assets way too quickly to compete with a guy who isn't there yet and should probably continue building young assets out instead of trading for vets who don't match the timeline of your young superstar.

I agree that a few years is fine, but If I was cleveland I'd be looking to take a low risk/cheap gamble on a young wing, maybe something like Nasir Little from Portland or maybe Cam Reddish, or atleast someone along those lines, unless you want to spend more assets and acquire something a level above that and make a push.

[RCM88x]

This is really interesting.

I agree, I've been loving watching the cavs this year, and I've seen garland pass up way too many semi open looks or look hesitant to shoot, it's strange. I think he could definetly be averaging 20 a game, especially with Sexton out. Him and mobley are a really interesting core to watch, I still think they need a wing, I think okoro will project to be their 2 in time, not sure who they can realistically acquire that matches the timeline.

People obsess over timelines way too often and it usually results in teams making a bad move.

You try to get the best guy you can, doesn't matter if he's 23 or 29.

TBH I think most teams seem to do otherwise and it gimps them. Look at the pelicans with both AD and Zion, cashing in picks and younger assets way too quickly to compete with a guy who isn't there yet and should probably continue building young assets out instead of trading for vets who don't match the timeline of your young superstar.

I agree that a few years is fine, but If I was cleveland I'd be looking to take a low risk/cheap gamble on a young wing, maybe something like Nasir Little from Portland or maybe Cam Reddish, or atleast someone along those lines, unless you want to spend more assets and acquire something a level above that and make a push.

I think NOLAs problem is that they just made bad trades and bad draft picks. They let a very good PG walk for nothing and replaced him with someone who's terrible (that they drafted). They also can't keep their best two players healthy which is an entirely different issue.

Often times I think that teams do try and pull the trigger too quickly once they have a couple guys that show promise. The timing is key, because if those moves don't cash in like you expected it doesn't really leave a lot of room for improvement when those core players are actually capable of contending (if they ever are).

Personally, I don't think the Cavs should be looking to make a move at this point. The team is 7-4 and effectively in it's first season together. They need to do a lot more to prove themselves before they start packaging draft picks to improve.

[cupcakesnake]

People obsess over timelines way too often and it usually results in teams making a bad move.

You try to get the best guy you can, doesn't matter if he's 23 or 29.

TBH I think most teams seem to do otherwise and it gimps them. Look at the pelicans with both AD and Zion, cashing in picks and younger assets way too quickly to compete with a guy who isn't there yet and should probably continue building young assets out instead of trading for vets who don't match the timeline of your young superstar.

I agree that a few years is fine, but If I was cleveland I'd be looking to take a low risk/cheap gamble on a young wing, maybe something like Nasir Little from Portland or maybe Cam Reddish, or atleast someone along those lines, unless you want to spend more assets and acquire something a level above that and make a push.

I think NOLAs problem is that they just made bad trades and bad draft picks. They let a very good PG walk for nothing and replaced him with someone who's terrible (that they drafted). They also can't keep their best two players healthy which is an entirely different issue.

Often times I think that teams do try and pull the trigger too quickly once they have a couple guys that show promise. The timing is key, because if those moves don't cash in like you expected it doesn't really leave a lot of room for improvement when those core players are actually capable of contending (if they ever are).

Personally, I don't think the Cavs should be looking to make a move at this point. The team is 7-4 and effectively in it's first season together. They need to do a lot more to prove themselves before they start packaging draft picks to improve.

Yeah the Lonzo Ball move was strange even if we all saw it coming. Not sure exactly why they telegraphed early how little interest they had in paying Ball.

I was thinking a bit about New Orleans today, as everyone is sounding the alarms on the franchise being doomed. I'm not sure I'm at the same level of concern. Zion's health is by far the biggest factor here. If he's healthy we're looking at a different situation because we're all mad they aren't building an immediate contender around him. If Zion is going to miss most of the season due to his foot and conditioning and future injury concern, this seems like a year to just tank around Jonas Valanciunas. New Orleans hasn't made all bad moves: the package they got for Jrue was what some teams get back for an MVP caliber player. They have a lot of extra draft capital in upcoming years, and if the Lakers fall apart after this season (due to Lebron health), that draft capital is pretty juicy. Zion is 21, and injury concerns might make it hard for him to flee New Orleans early. Some good performance in the draft in the next 2-3 seasons might be the slow build that so many people advocate for.

[Texas Chuck]

TBH I think most teams seem to do otherwise and it gimps them. Look at the pelicans with both AD and Zion, cashing in picks and younger assets way too quickly to compete with a guy who isn't there yet and should probably continue building young assets out instead of trading for vets who don't match the timeline of your young superstar.

Isn't the real issue simply missing on the trade?

Phoenix pushed in on Paul and it worked great. Warriors using picks to dump bad money when they were a bad team for Iggy worked great. Boston the most extreme went they went all-in on KG/Allen around Truth when they were young and terrible.

KP went bad for Dallas, but the idea was reasonable. Getting good players around AD was a good idea, but injuries killed them. Boston signing expensive veteran free agents and trading for Kyrie around Brown/Tatum were good decisions that didn't get them all the way because Hayward broke his leg and Kyrie flaked out. Bottom line if you make a major move at any point and it busts hard, its a problem. Doesn't mean the thinking was necessarily wrong, just the execution didn't work out.

[BIGJ1ER]

Ant man dropped 48 on the warriors today, unreal stuff from him. While his jumper was hot, some of his moves going to the basket and his handle just looked really really unstoppable.

For some reason I'm really rooting for him to succeed, which is strange since at the moment his is a player archetype I really don't like usually, the scoring shooting guard who doesn't offer much else (and doesn't even score efficiently at this point in his career) ala mitchell, lavine etc. His advanced stats are not good in the slightest, which while still early in his career, isn't the greatest sign.

Curious to hear if anyone here has any thoughts on him, maybe jamaalstar if you've watched alot of him?

[BIGJ1ER]

TBH I think most teams seem to do otherwise and it gimps them. Look at the pelicans with both AD and Zion, cashing in picks and younger assets way too quickly to compete with a guy who isn't there yet and should probably continue building young assets out instead of trading for vets who don't match the timeline of your young superstar.

Isn't the real issue simply missing on the trade?

Phoenix pushed in on Paul and it worked great. Warriors using picks to dump bad money when they were a bad team for Iggy worked great. Boston the most extreme went they went all-in on KG/Allen around Truth when they were young and terrible.

KP went bad for Dallas, but the idea was reasonable. Getting good players around AD was a good idea, but injuries killed them. Boston signing expensive veteran free agents and trading for Kyrie around Brown/Tatum were good decisions that didn't get them all the way because Hayward broke his leg and Kyrie flaked out. Bottom line if you make a major move at any point and it busts hard, its a problem. Doesn't mean the thinking was necessarily wrong, just the execution didn't work out.

That's a good point, Mikal and Ayton taking the steps they needed to, the crowder signing, and cam payne becoming a useful nba player helped too, but I agree that worked out fantastically.

I guess the jrue trade worked out somewhat because he developed even more and they flipped him for more assets years later. I remember at the time though I really wanted them to draft Noel ( Really thought he'd become a defensive savant) and try build assets to flip when AD was really ready to compete, and I think the moves they made were poor (injury luck was a factor too).

Boston's moves were great imo, would do those deals in hindsight again, just horrible luck. Completely forgot about the Igoudala moves, good call.

I guess I'm definitely more of a hesitant team builder in my theoretical GM mode, and I do prefer a slower tanking style build and then flip pieces once you've found/drafted the right guys (Kind of how the hawks have done it). That's just my view on it though.

[Doctor MJ]

TBH I think most teams seem to do otherwise and it gimps them. Look at the pelicans with both AD and Zion, cashing in picks and younger assets way too quickly to compete with a guy who isn't there yet and should probably continue building young assets out instead of trading for vets who don't match the timeline of your young superstar.

I agree that a few years is fine, but If I was cleveland I'd be looking to take a low risk/cheap gamble on a young wing, maybe something like Nasir Little from Portland or maybe Cam Reddish, or atleast someone along those lines, unless you want to spend more assets and acquire something a level above that and make a push.

I think NOLAs problem is that they just made bad trades and bad draft picks. They let a very good PG walk for nothing and replaced him with someone who's terrible (that they drafted). They also can't keep their best two players healthy which is an entirely different issue.

Often times I think that teams do try and pull the trigger too quickly once they have a couple guys that show promise. The timing is key, because if those moves don't cash in like you expected it doesn't really leave a lot of room for improvement when those core players are actually capable of contending (if they ever are).

Personally, I don't think the Cavs should be looking to make a move at this point. The team is 7-4 and effectively in it's first season together. They need to do a lot more to prove themselves before they start packaging draft picks to improve.

Yeah the Lonzo Ball move was strange even if we all saw it coming. Not sure exactly why they telegraphed early how little interest they had in paying Ball.

I was thinking a bit about New Orleans today, as everyone is sounding the alarms on the franchise being doomed. I'm not sure I'm at the same level of concern. Zion's health is by far the biggest factor here. If he's healthy we're looking at a different situation because we're all mad they aren't building an immediate contender around him. If Zion is going to miss most of the season due to his foot and conditioning and future injury concern, this seems like a year to just tank around Jonas Valanciunas. New Orleans hasn't made all bad moves: the package they got for Jrue was what some teams get back for an MVP caliber player. They have a lot of extra draft capital in upcoming years, and if the Lakers fall apart after this season (due to Lebron health), that draft capital is pretty juicy. Zion is 21, and injury concerns might make it hard for him to flee New Orleans early. Some good performance in the draft in the next 2-3 seasons might be the slow build that so many people advocate for.

I think what I’m feeling more and more is that we shouldn’t be going ga ga over GMs that ship out talent for assets. No matter how skilled they are in milking the process for all it’s worth, if they never turn those assets into a great team, there’s no reason another team should hire such GMs after they are fired.

It may still work out for NO simply because Zion is Zion, but it doesn’t feel like they have any actual vision.

I also worry for the city here losing the franchise. Realistically, there are more than 32 other markets that could probably be more lucrative and they are holding on at this point out of inertia. There’s so much to the culture of NO that’s worth celebrating and I don’t want them to lose a source of joy and revenue - and I do feel like a good run with Zion can keep that going - but it’s not looking good.


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[cupcakesnake]

Ant man dropped 48 on the warriors today, unreal stuff from him. While his jumper was hot, some of his moves going to the basket and his handle just looked really really unstoppable.

For some reason I'm really rooting for him to succeed, which is strange since at the moment his is a player archetype I really don't like usually, the scoring shooting guard who doesn't offer much else (and doesn't even score efficiently at this point in his career) ala mitchell, lavine etc. His advanced stats are not good in the slightest, which while still early in his career, isn't the greatest sign.

Curious to hear if anyone here has any thoughts on him, maybe jamaalstar if you've watched alot of him?

Your summary of his player archetype is basically right, though he's made a clear effort on the glass this year (which is important on a team that only has 1 other capable rebounder).

I think the only thing people tend to miss on the Ant Man is the level of his physical tools. People know he's a strong, athletic boy, but I don't think people overall are grasping what an outlier he is. Physically, he's a pokevolved Dwyane Wade. I'm not being hyperbolic... His first step is just teleporty like Wade's was, but instead of that first step being on a combo-guard sized player, Ant is more of a combo-wing sized player. Against most players, he looks like he has an entire other gear that his opponents and teammates don't.

He's not "good" yet. Everything he's doing is based on his physical gifts and being pretty competitive. The skill set is developing but I don't know what his ceiling is there. The decision-making is meh. He's taking 10 3s per game and he's not a good 3-point shooter. He turns the ball over as much as he dimes up. He's just TOO MUCH physically for perimeter defenders, and the Wolves have pretty good spacing with Towns and Russell (who is finally starting to hit some shots).