Game 10: Timberwolves at Warriors, 10 pm

[shrink]

I for one don’t want quantity if trading Towns. Screw that mess. Go after the single best quality youth on roster now, or wait until after lotto and get best quality pick one can get (top 5).

First, If we think Edwards is going to be a star, we need someone that compliments his skillset, not just the random best young player.

Second, while I agree that any deal for Towns needs a headliner, there is no player in this draft, after only 10 games in the NBA, that is as valuable as Towns. The trades on the Trade Board where posters say they wouldn’t deal Evan Mobley or Scottie Barnes for KAT are ridiculous fan over-estimations of their “future HOFers.”

People forget that he is the second best shooter (TS%) …of all time .. (behind Curry), for his career. I’m dismissing the lob dunkers, but KAT spreads the floor, and scores in volume .. 28th in PPG in NBA history.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

Sorry if his shoulders slumped in this game, but the Wolves have had exactly one better player in their franchise history. Trading Towns cheap would be a very bad move.

[Krapinsky]

I for one don’t want quantity if trading Towns. Screw that mess. Go after the single best quality youth on roster now, or wait until after lotto and get best quality pick one can get (top 5).

First, If we think Edwards is going to be a star, we need someone that compliments his skillset, not just the random best young player.

Second, while I agree that any deal for Towns needs a headliner, there is no player in this draft, after only 10 games in the NBA, that is as valuable as Towns. The trades on the Trade Board where posters say they wouldn’t deal Evan Mobley or Scottie Barnes for KAT are ridiculous fan over-estimations of their “future HOFers.”

People forget that he is the second best shooter (TS%) …of all time .. (behind Curry), for his career. I’m dismissing the lob dunkers, but KAT spreads the floor, and scores in volume .. 28th in PPG in NBA history.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

Sorry if his shoulders slumped in this game, but the Wolves have had exactly one better player in their franchise history. Trading Towns cheap would be a very bad move.

Boy a Mobley deal would really make me think long and hard. The offense has always been great, but it hasn't contributed to winning. A player as good as Towns should be able to get us to play off contention (i.e. play-in), but it hasn't materialized. I'm starting to believe this is because of his poor leadership and defensive shortcomings. I put him in the same basket as Kevin Love. Great individual numbers, but are you winning anything with him without Lebron James on your team?

[Merc_Porto]

Second, while I agree that any deal for Towns needs a headliner, there is no player in this draft, after only 10 games in the NBA, that is as valuable as Towns. The trades on the Trade Board where posters say they wouldn’t deal Evan Mobley or Scottie Barnes for KAT are ridiculous fan over-estimations of their “future HOFers.”

Not seen enough of Barnes to talk about it. But I totally get that claim about Mobley.
I wouldn't trade Mobley for KAT either. And we can forget age - contracts and everything else.

That's a special talent even after only 10 games.

[jpatrick]

I for one don’t want quantity if trading Towns. Screw that mess. Go after the single best quality youth on roster now, or wait until after lotto and get best quality pick one can get (top 5).

First, If we think Edwards is going to be a star, we need someone that compliments his skillset, not just the random best young player.

Second, while I agree that any deal for Towns needs a headliner, there is no player in this draft, after only 10 games in the NBA, that is as valuable as Towns. The trades on the Trade Board where posters say they wouldn’t deal Evan Mobley or Scottie Barnes for KAT are ridiculous fan over-estimations of their “future HOFers.”

People forget that he is the second best shooter (TS%) …of all time .. (behind Curry), for his career. I’m dismissing the lob dunkers, but KAT spreads the floor, and scores in volume .. 28th in PPG in NBA history.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

Sorry if his shoulders slumped in this game, but the Wolves have had exactly one better player in their franchise history. Trading Towns cheap would be a very bad move.

Boy a Mobley deal would really make me think long and hard. The offense has always been great, but it hasn't contributed to winning. A player as good as Towns should be able to get us to play off contention (i.e. play-in), but it hasn't materialized. I'm starting to believe this is because of his poor leadership and defensive shortcomings. I put him in the same basket as Kevin Love. Great individual numbers, but are you winning anything with him without Lebron James on your team?

I think this team has done Towns wrong. He's not an alpha who can be a #1 on a good team (the one time the team had a vet alpha, we made the playoffs). But he's the best bigman shooter in the league and has historically been one of the most efficient scorers in the league. The problem. He's not a great defender at a position where that is important. And I do think he is a bit soft. But Finch/Rosas has created probably the lowest BBIQ team in the league and then Finch decided the best offense for this team was "free flowing," ie very few plays. The result is 1-on-1 ball with no ball movement and definitely not putting our most efficient scorer in places to score. All that said, I think a change needs to happen. KAT looks mentally done already this season.

Although I think KAT will rebound and become a star again if you put him on a high BBIQ team like the warriors with a defined role as the #2 or #3, I think you're wrong Shrink about his value. Mobley has more trade value than KAT. He's a two-way player with an insanely high BBIQ who is already contributing to winning, something KAT never really has. I'm very confident that the Cavs would never trade Mobley for KAT, especially with KAT about to ask for a $200m extension this offseason while Mobley is on a rookie extension. Barnes is a closer call, but I'm not sure the Raps trade him for KAT either. Would we have traded Ant during the last half of last season for someone like KAT? We definitely wouldn't trade him for someone like Simmons (even before the holdout, etc), who has accomplished more than KAT in his career.

[Wolf_Cry]

Feels like the names thrown out there are Wiseman, Jaylen Brown, or Ayton. Wiseman has the highest ceiling, but we'll be getting him and probably a bunch of FRP that will be extremely late in the draft.

Wiseman is a bust, I say hell no to him.
Ayton also will be overpaid for being an slightly above average center. Wolves need to stop building around a center. I think teams that are disappointing that may want to add Towns and have some interesting assets are Atlanta and maybe Toronto?

Raptors is the team, Barnes is our guy to target in Towns trade. But who has faith that Ujiri won’t rob Gupta blind?

Towns + 2x Filler FOR Barnes + Dragic (buyout) + Boucher or Birch + 2022 1st (limited protections) + 2024 1st (protected) + 2023 1st Swap

Raptors would have 3+ years with Towns next to Siakam — both not 1A players, but maybe can elevate their games on same roster. Nice supporting cast of FVV, OG, and GTR.

Wolves tank to rebuild around Edwards, Barnes and 1 of the 4 bigs in top 6: Paolo, Chet, Jalen or Yannick.

With Raptors 1st in 15-20 range, draft BPA but most likely a PGOF flyer: Montero, Chandler, Washington or Davison.

Your 2022/23 Minnesota Timberwolves:
2022 Top 6 | Reid
Barnes | JV
McDaniels | Bolmaro
Edwards | Beasley
Russell* | 2022 Raptors 1st

*Russell leads the tank with his remaining time in MN, until he can be traded as expiring 2022 offseason or 2023 trade deadline. Same with Beasley.

I think Barnes is untouchable for the Raptors right now. We'd have to throw in Ant just to make them consider the trade. Is he over hype? Probably. Is it justified? Yes. Barnes potential is insane- even more than Ant. If all things go right, he could easily be a better prime Kawhi Leonard. On the other hand, KAT's shown who he is- an amazing shooting big who can give you decent defense once in a while. Given his lack of quickness and strength, this is pretty much KAT's ceiling. Not bad, but not spectacular. However, not close to the value of someone like Barnes.

[life_saver]

It's still early in the season and sample size is small but Beasley really has been a disappointment so far this year...he is shooting 31.9% from 3

[Neeva]

Wiseman is a bust, I say hell no to him.
Ayton also will be overpaid for being an slightly above average center. Wolves need to stop building around a center. I think teams that are disappointing that may want to add Towns and have some interesting assets are Atlanta and maybe Toronto?

Raptors is the team, Barnes is our guy to target in Towns trade. But who has faith that Ujiri won’t rob Gupta blind?

Towns + 2x Filler FOR Barnes + Dragic (buyout) + Boucher or Birch + 2022 1st (limited protections) + 2024 1st (protected) + 2023 1st Swap

Raptors would have 3+ years with Towns next to Siakam — both not 1A players, but maybe can elevate their games on same roster. Nice supporting cast of FVV, OG, and GTR.

Wolves tank to rebuild around Edwards, Barnes and 1 of the 4 bigs in top 6: Paolo, Chet, Jalen or Yannick.

With Raptors 1st in 15-20 range, draft BPA but most likely a PGOF flyer: Montero, Chandler, Washington or Davison.

Your 2022/23 Minnesota Timberwolves:
2022 Top 6 | Reid
Barnes | JV
McDaniels | Bolmaro
Edwards | Beasley
Russell* | 2022 Raptors 1st

*Russell leads the tank with his remaining time in MN, until he can be traded as expiring 2022 offseason or 2023 trade deadline. Same with Beasley.

I think Barnes is untouchable for the Raptors right now. We'd have to throw in Ant just to make them consider the trade. Is he over hype? Probably. Is it justified? Yes. Barnes potential is insane- even more than Ant. If all things go right, he could easily be a better prime Kawhi Leonard. On the other hand, KAT's shown who he is- an amazing shooting big who can give you decent defense once in a while. Given his lack of quickness and strength, this is pretty much KAT's ceiling. Not bad, but not spectacular. However, not close to the value of someone like Barnes.

Oh please..:

[life_saver]

First, If we think Edwards is going to be a star, we need someone that compliments his skillset, not just the random best young player.

Second, while I agree that any deal for Towns needs a headliner, there is no player in this draft, after only 10 games in the NBA, that is as valuable as Towns. The trades on the Trade Board where posters say they wouldn’t deal Evan Mobley or Scottie Barnes for KAT are ridiculous fan over-estimations of their “future HOFers.”

People forget that he is the second best shooter (TS%) …of all time .. (behind Curry), for his career. I’m dismissing the lob dunkers, but KAT spreads the floor, and scores in volume .. 28th in PPG in NBA history.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

Sorry if his shoulders slumped in this game, but the Wolves have had exactly one better player in their franchise history. Trading Towns cheap would be a very bad move.

Boy a Mobley deal would really make me think long and hard. The offense has always been great, but it hasn't contributed to winning. A player as good as Towns should be able to get us to play off contention (i.e. play-in), but it hasn't materialized. I'm starting to believe this is because of his poor leadership and defensive shortcomings. I put him in the same basket as Kevin Love. Great individual numbers, but are you winning anything with him without Lebron James on your team?

I think this team has done Towns wrong. He's not an alpha who can be a #1 on a good team (the one time the team had a vet alpha, we made the playoffs). But he's the best bigman shooter in the league and has historically been one of the most efficient scorers in the league. The problem. He's not a great defender at a position where that is important. And I do think he is a bit soft. But Finch/Rosas has created probably the lowest BBIQ team in the league and then Finch decided the best offense for this team was "free flowing," ie very few plays. The result is 1-on-1 ball with no ball movement and definitely not putting our most efficient scorer in places to score. All that said, I think a change needs to happen. KAT looks mentally done already this season.

Although I think KAT will rebound and become a star again if you put him on a high BBIQ team like the warriors with a defined role as the #2 or #3, I think you're wrong Shrink about his value. Mobley has more trade value than KAT. He's a two-way player with an insanely high BBIQ who is already contributing to winning, something KAT never really has. I'm very confident that the Cavs would never trade Mobley for KAT, especially with KAT about to ask for a $200m extension this offseason while Mobley is on a rookie extension. Barnes is a closer call, but I'm not sure the Raps trade him for KAT either. Would we have traded Ant during the last half of last season for someone like KAT? We definitely wouldn't trade him for someone like Simmons (even before the holdout, etc), who has accomplished more than KAT in his career.

I mostly agree with what you said..our current roster has lot of limited players on offense and Finch also hasn't done well to maximize the talent on the roster on offensive end...maybe a trade is best for both KAT and Wolves. I don't mind if Wolves trade KAT and instead try to either draft or acquire a big who is a good defensive anchor (even if he is not as talented as KAT offensively)

[BlacJacMac]

It's still early in the season and sample size is small but Beasley really has been a disappointment so far this year...he is shooting 31.9% from 3

He's out of shape, his shot is flat and he's an energy guy playing with little energy.

[shangrila]

I for one don’t want quantity if trading Towns. Screw that mess. Go after the single best quality youth on roster now, or wait until after lotto and get best quality pick one can get (top 5).

First, If we think Edwards is going to be a star, we need someone that compliments his skillset, not just the random best young player.

Second, while I agree that any deal for Towns needs a headliner, there is no player in this draft, after only 10 games in the NBA, that is as valuable as Towns. The trades on the Trade Board where posters say they wouldn’t deal Evan Mobley or Scottie Barnes for KAT are ridiculous fan over-estimations of their “future HOFers.”

People forget that he is the second best shooter (TS%) …of all time .. (behind Curry), for his career. I’m dismissing the lob dunkers, but KAT spreads the floor, and scores in volume .. 28th in PPG in NBA history.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

Sorry if his shoulders slumped in this game, but the Wolves have had exactly one better player in their franchise history. Trading Towns cheap would be a very bad move.

Boy a Mobley deal would really make me think long and hard. The offense has always been great, but it hasn't contributed to winning. A player as good as Towns should be able to get us to play off contention (i.e. play-in), but it hasn't materialized. I'm starting to believe this is because of his poor leadership and defensive shortcomings. I put him in the same basket as Kevin Love. Great individual numbers, but are you winning anything with him without Lebron James on your team?

That's what I'm starting to realise. He's good, but not superstar good. And it's eerie how similar the discussions have been. I still remember comments about Love being MVP-calibre because of on-off ratings and efficiency, exactly the same as KAT.

Frankly, the idea that KAT is or ever was in the same league as Jokic or Embiid is laughable at this point. But I still imagine we'll get good value for him, similar to Love, because it's about the only time our crappiness plays in our favour.

[Slim Tubby]

Boy a Mobley deal would really make me think long and hard. The offense has always been great, but it hasn't contributed to winning. A player as good as Towns should be able to get us to play off contention (i.e. play-in), but it hasn't materialized. I'm starting to believe this is because of his poor leadership and defensive shortcomings. I put him in the same basket as Kevin Love. Great individual numbers, but are you winning anything with him without Lebron James on your team?[/quote]

C Holmgren
PF Mobley
SF McDaniels
SG Edwards
PG Slim Tubby

That sure looks good on paper.

[floppymoose]

I came to say "wow!" about Antman, and to also tell you to move KAT and DLo, but you are of course way ahead of me.

What do you think of this trade? Add in picks and pick swaps as needed to even out:
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7486420

If the Wolves could trade DLo for Simmons straight up, I think they do that and see what the team looks like with Towns.

I think you might be able to, with a pick swap added in. This is just me BSing but I don't think there is a market for Simmons, and I think Morey is sitting on him not because he is holding out for a huge return, but because the owners want to make an example of Simmons.

[floppymoose]

I genuinely think KAT needs to get out of Minnesota tbh.

After all the **** he's been through off the court in the last couple of years, he just doesn't quite seem the same on it to me. This team isn't going to get anywhere as currently constructed. I'd look to deal him closer to the deadline and try to build around Ant and whatever we get in the next 2 drafts.

Feels like the names thrown out there are Wiseman, Jaylen Brown, or Ayton. Wiseman has the highest ceiling, but we'll be getting him and probably a bunch of FRP that will be extremely late in the draft.

Wiseman is a bust, I say hell no to him.

Wiseman could certainly end up being a bust. It's a very possible outcome. Too soon to be positive, though. Regardless, I don't think GS is the right trading partner for KAT.

[shrink]

The love of rookies on good starts continues here. Remember how good we thought ROY Wiggins was going to be? You just don’t know in a rookie season, let alone ten games into a rookie season.

Finally, even if you’re down on KAT, don’t dismiss him as a great #2, just because he’s not a great #1. The odds any of these rookies are going to be better #2’s next to Ant are extremely low.

[Neeva]

The love of rookies on good starts continues here. Remember how good we thought ROY Wiggins was going to be? You just don’t know in a rookie season, let alone ten games into a rookie season.

Finally, even if you’re down on KAT, don’t dismiss him as a great #2, just because he’s not a great #1. The odds any of these rookies are going to be better #2’s next to Ant are extremely low.

I think it obvious kat isn’t happy and if he is kept could become toxic. Also Kat and Ant for some reason just don’t mesh well on the court.

[King Malta]

The love of rookies on good starts continues here. Remember how good we thought ROY Wiggins was going to be? You just don’t know in a rookie season, let alone ten games into a rookie season.

Finally, even if you’re down on KAT, don’t dismiss him as a great #2, just because he’s not a great #1. The odds any of these rookies are going to be better #2’s next to Ant are extremely low.

I don't disagree about the early love for rookies, although I am personally very high on Mobley.

I just don't think you can build around (as either a #1 or a #2) a big guy with the defensive deficiencies KAT has and win a chip though. Denver and Jokic are a good cautionary tale, IMO. They're great during the regular season, but Jokic's awful defense constantly gets found out in the playoffs.

[Merc_Porto]

The love of rookies on good starts continues here. Remember how good we thought ROY Wiggins was going to be? You just don’t know in a rookie season, let alone ten games into a rookie season.

But with that line of thinking you would trade also a rookie Doncic for KAT. Tatum, Morant, or Trae.
I mean, yes, Wiggins fool us all. I'm the first always to remember people how hyped was Wiggins in comparison with Edwards now for example. But there are some special talents you just cant ignore and you have to bet on them.

Of course, Cleveland wouldn't trade Mobley for KAT for example.
Have you watched Mobley? Have you seen who he is being compared to already?

Oh yeah, but he could turn out to be a bust... Unlikely but ok
But what about if he turns out to be the new Kevin Garnett?

One thing is to trade for a top-3/5 pick in the draft day or something like that.
Another is to watch how good some guys are already and can be even with only 10 games on it.

[life_saver]

Probably biggest issue of this team

Read on Twitter

[Neeva]

Some perspective people Mobley is a month older than Ant, Barnes four days older than Ant.

[shangrila]

You can literally find and replace KAT's name with Love's and it's the same debates we were having 5-10 years ago.