We need a post threat (best suited at the 5). How about Daniel Oturu?

[finestrg]

Two adjustments I'd make right now -

(1) Jettison either Jericho Sims or Wayne Selden and sign Daniel Oruru. Oturu's about a year younger than Sims and much further along as a player with better skills, so this swap for a younger, more talented/more NBA-ready big man makes all the sense in the world to me.. Or, swap him in for Wayne Selden, who's basically window dressing on this team (this year's Theo Pinson). I think Selden is actually a decent player to be honest, but he has no role on this team at all except cheerleader. If there ever were a rash of injuries to our rotation wings, you would think guys like Grimes and even Knox would play ahead of Selden, and they're not even playing.

Otruru was waived by the Chicago Bulls on 9/27/2021. He's now an affiliate player playing for the Windy City Bulls in the GL. I had to look up 'affiliate player' just to be sure what that meant -- an affiliate player has no ties to the parent club and is technically a FA that is free to sign with any other NBA team. So this would be step one -- bring in Daniel Oturu on a low-cost/ultra low risk move just to see if we could uncover an NBA-ready 5 man that can score the ball and do other things like rebound the ball and protect the rim as well - I think this guy can do all of that! So i think Oturu over Sims or Selden would improve the roster.

And if we wanted to go a step further as far as beefing up talent in the middle, I still say Skal Labissiere would be a good get. I know we had him on the Westchester GL club for a little while last season and obviously didn't like what we saw (he even had several DNPs and as far as i knew, he was healthy), but this kid can play. Only 25, long and skilled offensively. And like Oturu, I think he would rebound and help protect the tin with that length. Also a FA.. When I was watching the game against the Cavs a few games back, watching Evan Mobley play, I immediately thought of Labissiere as a good comp.

Moves for Oturu and/or Labissiere are moves we should be looking at right now -- if they work out, great. If they don't, no harm no foul. Not like we'd be adding an major salary to the cap..

(2) Get Obi Toppin more mins. Thibs himself has even said the team plays well and looks better when Obi's on the floor. Ok, so get him more time now! Not only should he be getting all of the backup 4 mins when Randle's resting, but he needs to get mins at the 3 and also some at 5. If Fournier continues to basically be a non-factor for us out there, try Obi at the 3. I don't just want to hear people say he can't play 3 -- I need to see that he can't. And i think that's BS -- he can definitely play some 3. He's athletic and the handle looks greatly improved. Try it! What have we got to lose?

I need to see a Daniel Oturu scouting/highlights video first.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Thing about the Center position is there are very few versatile bigs and that's why Embiid is so awesome. They seemingly all fit into certain archetypes. For instance our guys are all rim runners. Plenty of teams do great with those types and many can generate 12pts easy and consistently running pick and roll all day long. Along with that you'll get excellent rebounding. But then we wish for a guy who can space the floor. Passing big men and them in many cases those lack the defense. The guy I like isn't gonna be the star of your team but I think he's versatile enough where you get a bit of everything and that's Miles Turner. What you you guys think of him

I like Turner a lot but here's the thing --- the salary cap is slightly over $112.4 million. Per Hoopshype, the Knicks are currently a little over $120.05 million this season with the additions we made. Turner's current deal pays him $18mm this year and next. So with the Knicks being over the cap, we'd have to deal $18mm in salary to add him, give or take slightly. And then think about the picks Indy would also want included.

I'm just petrified of adding significant salary as we've be burned so many times in the past and it's set the team back years in order to dig out from the trouble we've gotten ourselves into. Cap management is probably the most important thing to be mindful of in the NBA when building a team. Once you cap yourself out, and god forbid you compound the problem by adding even more salary with the leeway provided in different ways, forget about it -- if you don't get that 100% right, you're cooked, maybe for years to come. That just scares the piss outta me now...It's why I'd love to try low cost options first. ...

The salary is insignificant. It's only for two years and Turner would be expiring next year. Trade Fournier (straight up) or Noel+Knox for Turner. The latter might be attractive to the Pacers. At some point they may have to decide between Turner and Doma - and then the probably want a C who doesn't ever shoot a 3. Idk. Maybe.

The downside is the picks the Knicks would have to give up. Otoh, they don't really have anything of value to trade, so ...

Obviously, some rando diminutive, non-3pt shooting "C" struggling to stay in the G-league isn't really in the same conversation as any of the Knicks Cs or Turner.

[finestrg]

Thing about the Center position is there are very few versatile bigs and that's why Embiid is so awesome. They seemingly all fit into certain archetypes. For instance our guys are all rim runners. Plenty of teams do great with those types and many can generate 12pts easy and consistently running pick and roll all day long. Along with that you'll get excellent rebounding. But then we wish for a guy who can space the floor. Passing big men and them in many cases those lack the defense. The guy I like isn't gonna be the star of your team but I think he's versatile enough where you get a bit of everything and that's Miles Turner. What you you guys think of him

I like Turner a lot but here's the thing --- the salary cap is slightly over $112.4 million. Per Hoopshype, the Knicks are currently a little over $120.05 million this season with the additions we made. Turner's current deal pays him $18mm this year and next. So with the Knicks being over the cap, we'd have to deal $18mm in salary to add him, give or take slightly. And then think about the picks Indy would also want included.

I'm just petrified of adding significant salary as we've be burned so many times in the past and it's set the team back years in order to dig out from the trouble we've gotten ourselves into. Cap management is probably the most important thing to be mindful of in the NBA when building a team. Once you cap yourself out, and god forbid you compound the problem by adding even more salary with the leeway provided in different ways, forget about it -- if you don't get that 100% right, you're cooked, maybe for years to come. That just scares the piss outta me now...It's why I'd love to try low cost options first. ...

The salary is insignificant. It's only for two years and Turner would be expiring next year. Trade Fournier (straight up) or Noel+Knox for Turner. The latter might be attractive to the Pacers. At some point they may have to decide between Turner and Doma - and then the probably want a C who doesn't ever shoot a 3. Idk. Maybe.

The downside is the picks the Knicks would have to give up. Otoh, they don't really have anything of value to trade, so ...

Obviously, some rando diminutive, non-3pt shooting "C" struggling to stay in the G-league isn't really in the same conversation as any of the Knicks Cs or Turner.

You're entitled to your opinion but I couldn't disagree more.. To me just on base talent alone and projected production in all the different areas a center could contribute in (and also the low salary impact he'd have), again, I see a guy in Oturu who checks off a lot of boxes. I'd take this guy right now over Robinson and Noel based on how limited and injury-prone both of these guys are, and even though he's still a project in a sense, his game is a lot further along than Sims'. Almost a full year younger than Sims too.. I mean, you can clearly see the more advanced skill set Oturu is working with.. Compare both of their games and tell me with a straight face Jericho is further along and a better big man prospect than this guy...I take the flier here on Oturu and I do it yesterday.

[moocow007]

Someone like Jonas Valanciunas (who signed with the Pelicans for 2 years $30 million) would have been a real nice fit for this team as the starting C. They could have signed him this past offseason and it would have cost them nothing in terms of assets.

So far this season? Valanciunas is averaging 19.5ppg, 13.9rpg, 2.7apg, 1.3bpg, 51.3%fg, 57.9%3pt, 88.9%ft. Valanciunas has always been a strong defender and now he's also got quite an offensive repertoire that extends out to 3pt range. $15 million a year would have been a steal but...yeah...we got Nerlens Noel for $9 million a year.

I had mentioned Valanciunas a few times on the NBNF podcast as a guy that I liked and thought would be an excellent fit.

But The Pelicans to get JV had to
- trade down from 10 to 17 in the last year draft.
- Give away 2022 lottery-protected pick

Or do you consider this price is only to unload 35/2 Adams contract?

Was thinking that his contract expired at the end of last season, but yeah It was an extension. My bad.

[thebuzzardman]

I like Turner a lot but here's the thing --- the salary cap is slightly over $112.4 million. Per Hoopshype, the Knicks are currently a little over $120.05 million this season with the additions we made. Turner's current deal pays him $18mm this year and next. So with the Knicks being over the cap, we'd have to deal $18mm in salary to add him, give or take slightly. And then think about the picks Indy would also want included.

I'm just petrified of adding significant salary as we've be burned so many times in the past and it's set the team back years in order to dig out from the trouble we've gotten ourselves into. Cap management is probably the most important thing to be mindful of in the NBA when building a team. Once you cap yourself out, and god forbid you compound the problem by adding even more salary with the leeway provided in different ways, forget about it -- if you don't get that 100% right, you're cooked, maybe for years to come. That just scares the piss outta me now...It's why I'd love to try low cost options first. ...

The salary is insignificant. It's only for two years and Turner would be expiring next year. Trade Fournier (straight up) or Noel+Knox for Turner. The latter might be attractive to the Pacers. At some point they may have to decide between Turner and Doma - and then the probably want a C who doesn't ever shoot a 3. Idk. Maybe.

The downside is the picks the Knicks would have to give up. Otoh, they don't really have anything of value to trade, so ...

Obviously, some rando diminutive, non-3pt shooting "C" struggling to stay in the G-league isn't really in the same conversation as any of the Knicks Cs or Turner.

You're entitled to your opinion but I couldn't disagree more.. To me just on base talent alone and projected production in all the different areas a center could contribute in (and also the low salary impact he'd have), again, I see a guy in Oturu who checks off a lot of boxes. I'd take this guy right now over Robinson and Noel based on how limited and injury-prone both of these guys are, and even though he's still a project in a sense, his game is a lot further along than Sims'. Almost a full year younger than Sims too.. I mean, you can clearly see the more advanced skill set Oturu is working with.. Compare both of their games and tell me with a straight face Jericho is further along and a better big man prospect than this guy...I take the flier here on Oturu and I do it yesterday.

Maybe better than the low motor, doesn't give a sh*t about bball guy the Knicks snagged from the Spurs

[Knicksfan1992]

I'm honestly not too worried about the C position long term. The Knicks actually have enough decent post options. RJ, historically, has been a pretty good post player. The Knicks just never seem to get him down there enough on mismatches. Julius can post sometimes and so can Obi with varying but usually solid degrees of success.

I think Mitch is playing hurt and it's effecting his play more than we realize (or at least I hope that's the case ) Noel is a great 15-25 minute a night guy t have and can spot start in specific matchups. He's a luxury. Taj is Taj. Dependable and solid. Thibs seems to be able to plug and play with rim running Centers so it's not something I think this team really needs to address in a major way.

I think the bigger need is for a consistent do-it-all-ish wing. Problem is these are the hardest kind of archetypes to find and also usually cost the most because of it. We've seen when RJ and Fournier play well the offense tends to take off...If the Knicks could ideally find someone who they can bank on getting an efficient 20 a night with a few dimes and rebounds in there that's when we would really take off IMO.

Question is who would be available at that spot and when? You tend to look at losing teams first and see if they can be plundered. Problem is right now the league seems to have more parity than any other time in the past 10-15 years so more teams are going to be reluctant to sell especially since. technically, 10 teams per conference can get extra playoff revenue and the lottery is less rewarding with flattened odds. Some guys that I think could be available once things start to shake out that could possibly help us to varying degrees and costs:

Brandon Ingram
Josh Hart
Jerami Grant
Pascal Siakam
Terrence Ross
Gary Harris
Harrison Barnes
Thaddeus Young
Derrick White
Dejounte Murray
Malik Beasley
Buddy Hield
Dillon Brooks
Cedi Osman

[finestrg]

I'm honestly not too worried about the C position long term. The Knicks actually have enough decent post options. RJ, historically, has been a pretty good post player. The Knicks just never seem to get him down there enough on mismatches. Julius can post sometimes and so can Obi with varying but usually solid degrees of success.

I think Mitch is playing hurt and it's effecting his play more than we realize (or at least I hope that's the case ) Noel is a great 15-25 minute a night guy t have and can spot start in specific matchups. He's a luxury. Taj is Taj. Dependable and solid. Thibs seems to be able to plug and play with rim running Centers so it's not something I think this team really needs to address in a major way.

I think the bigger need is for a consistent do-it-all-ish wing. Problem is these are the hardest kind of archetypes to find and also usually cost the most because of it. We've seen when RJ and Fournier play well the offense tends to take off...If the Knicks could ideally find someone who they can bank on getting an efficient 20 a night with a few dimes and rebounds in there that's when we would really take off IMO.

Question is who would be available at that spot and when? You tend to look at losing teams first and see if they can be plundered. Problem is right now the league seems to have more parity than any other time in the past 10-15 years so more teams are going to be reluctant to sell especially since. technically, 10 teams per conference can get extra playoff revenue and the lottery is less rewarding with flattened odds. Some guys that I think could be available once things start to shake out that could possibly help us to varying degrees and costs:

Brandon Ingram
Josh Hart
Jerami Grant
Pascal Siakam
Terrence Ross
Gary Harris
Harrison Barnes
Thaddeus Young
Derrick White
Dejounte Murray
Malik Beasley
Buddy Hield
Dillon Brooks
Cedi Osman

Good post, thanks for the reply!

We'll have to agree to disagree on the C spot (I just don't see how we can keep running two guys out there that can't score a lick and are always hurt -- and the player I'm championing would barely cost anything to bring in and evaluate. I think there's a very good chance that Daniel Oturu would surprise a lot of people with how much he could impact the game in a lot of areas as an NBA 5 man. He would give us a much needed, well-rounded presence in the middle over what we're currently working with. And the low cost makes it a no brainer for me. Would love for the Knicks to pick this kid up), but I definitely agree on how bringing in a top-flight wing player would make a difference.

That's a good list. Obviously Ingram is at the top and rightly so. He's a guy I've had my eye on for a while now. I man, damn, if we could ever figure out a way to bring BI in here, you do it, case closed. Dude would be a difference maker from day one, no question about it. Who knows -- I think it's too early for the Pels to think about trading him but there are several things that could change -- (1) they're off to a terrible start at 2-13. How disenchanted does he become if they continue to play this poorly? (2) if you're the Knicks, I think you try to build the trade around Barrett. BI is young at 24 but Barrett's only 21. He just had a real good game against the Pels in their gym so they saw what he's capable of when he's going right. (3) RJ's played with Zion in college at Duke where they were a great duo, so there's that familiarity with each other--another plus. Not saying we'd ever be able to get BI straight up for Barrett, no way, but if Barrett can straighten himself out and start playing better like he was before he went into this funk (and I think he will, just a matter of time before he turns it around), he could be an attractive starting point in a potential trade discussion with the Pelicans.. I love BI - think he's one of the best young players in the game. I like how he's got some experience playing with Randle too, going back to their time with the Lakers...This is a guy you entertain trading for if the situation ever arises... Definitely something to keep an eye on for a lot of reasons, including the one's you discussed. Good call.

[symbiotic]

Oh my god dude I’m glad I skimmed this to get to the Oturu part before I read the whole wall

Is he even still in the nba

[finestrg]

Watch on YouTube

Please sign this kid already! No idea WTF we're waiting for.. This kid would give us a whole different look in the middle. Take a look at the game tonight against the Lakers -- quite a few times someone dumped the ball down to Noel right at the rim and he couldn't do anything with it.. And then throughout this season so far, when Thibs actually does see that there are times where we could use more offense on the court, he'll sit Noel/Robinson in favor of Toppin/Randle/2 guards and a SF or 3 guards, but then we lose the rim protection.

My thing -- why not go out there and add a guy on an ultra low risk/low salary move that provides every element and dimension we're missing right now at the 5? This dude Oturu is it....Even if he didn't play much right away, fine.. But go out there and sign this kid now before someone else does! I'd love for the Knicks to get him in the fold immediately.

I was just reading an "options to fix the PF hole" thread over on the Bulls message board -- I think these Bulls' posters were first upset with Patrick Williams that he wasn't pulling his weight, and now he's hurt.. The thread is currently 21 pages and it took a full 21 pages for someone to bring up Oturu and talk about how he's playing real well for their G-League affiliate right now.

Oturu checks EVERY damn box you'd want out of a young center prospect:
- Big/long/strong enough? CHECK. Dude is 6'10" 240 with a 7'4" wingspan, 9'2" standing reach and a 9.25-inch hand width.. His strength around the basket is obvious as well.
- Can he rebound? CHECK
- Can he protect the rim? CHECK
- Can he score in the post? CHECK. Not the most graceful guy around but he shows a variety of moves around the basket that include power, finesse, touch, etc.
- Can he put it on the floor and get to the rim? CHECK
- Can he finish at the rim? CHECK. Decent-looking left hand too.
- Can he face up and knock down mid-range jumpers? CHECK
- Can he step out and shoot 3s? CHECK

I mean what else is there? What CAN'T he do? What other criteria is there when evaluating what a young big can do? Look at Isaiah Stewart for the Pistons. This dude Oturu might be an inch or so bigger that Stewart and he has much more offensive polish. Stewart is seeing meaningful time with the Pistons in the NBA right now. But Oturu can't? How's that exactly? Here's a dude that's a better player with better skills.. And we could sure use his help right now and what he brings. COMPLETE NO BRAINER for me..

How many of these boxes do Robinson and Noel check? Just the first 3 for each, maybe (is Mitch really even strong enough? Has the added weight helped him in any way? No.. And is Noel big and strong enough? Not really.)... And how many boxes does Jericho Sims check off? About the same amount. He's raw with a limited ceiling... Oturu checks every box! Compare each player's ceiling and tell me with a straight face Sims has a higher ceiling than Oturu -- he doesn't! Not even close in my mind.. And again, he's almost a year younger than Sims to boot! Would cost nothing to waive Selden or Sims and add a player that could actually help us and provide something or multiple elements we don't have in our front court. i wouldn't even dream of resigning Mitch at this point. Go get me Oturu, and go with an Oturu/Noel duo in the middle next year. And heck, forget next year --I think Oturu could help us RIGHT NOW!! We bring him in now--from day 1, he'd be our best, most well rounded 5 man!

Again, no idea what the Knicks were thinking when we decided to trade pick 33 a couple of years ago when we had this kid drafted. No idea in the world how they would've taken Veron Carey Jr. with that pick, but passed on this kid once Carey got taken one pick before. THIS GUY'S BETTER THAN CAREY! Imho anyway...I get that trading the pick was also done with conserving salary cap space in mind, however little that wound up being. But I think it's time to take another look at that gaffe and correct that mistake.

Some random thoughts and adjustments I'd like to see them make:
(1) Sign Daniel Oturu and however long it took to work him in, work him into the lineup. But secure him now!

(2) Don't allow Randle to handle the ball all the time the way he does. Way too turnover prone to be freelancing the way he does. Let the guards handle the ball. He needs to get himself in good position much closer to the rim and make QUICK, DECISIVE moves. And if it's not there, move it quickly. He was doing that for about a quarter and a half and looked great, then he and the team reverted back to the bad habits that's caused us to struggle recently. Randle's was again too ball-dominant (he just holds it way too long and always seems to chew up so much clock), too loose with his handle, too careless with his passes, and showed poor shot selection when he's fully capable of getting much better shots.. I mean we saw him play great in Chicago and we saw it for about a quarter and a half tonight, then the wheels fell off... How 'bout the one play where he was out there freelancing (I think he may have been bringing the ball up at the time) and he missed Fournier WIDE OPEN behind him top right elbow in the second half? By the time he did turn his head to see him, he still hesitated and then wound up getting him the ball in a bad spot in the corner where the Lakers regrouped and had him covered. I'm screaming behind you, behind you!!! Drove me nuts... Not to mention the many careless turnovers he had. I like Randle a lot but there's got to be a limit to how much he's allowed to freelance and handle the rock.

(3) Tell Fournier part of the reason we got him is because we thought he'd supply much more off-the-dribble offense in addition to his spot up shooting. Demand that he take the ball to the rim more. DEMAND IT! It would open up so much.

(4) I'd like to see Toppin play some 3, in addition to the backup 4 mins he gets. I know he sees some time at 5, but that's where I'd like to work Daniel Oturu in, if we got him. Toppin at the 3 meanwhile intrigues me, esp. in games where Barrett and Fournier are struggling.

(5) Sooner or later, gimme a little more Grimes and finally dust off Deuce McBride and get him some time (esp. if he continues to play well in the G-League). Both guys are young, solid 2-way players that would add to the energy and excitement. And when there's excitement, the team rallies around it and they play better. Grimes is a little tougher to get time for I guess because you have to play RJ and continue to build with him, you have to play Fournier because he makes a lot of money and has shown in the past to be a solid reliable player and you have to get Burks and Quickley time at the 2 as well... I like Quickley but I'm not completely sold on him btw. I think there's a chance McBride might be the better option in that role, and also as the eventual successor to Kemba and/or Rose at the point. Take a look at Avery Bradley tonight -- man, what an underrated player this guy's always been. His D has always been top shelf, and he's always been a very underrated outside shooter.. I think Bradley is a good comp. for McBride. Chance Deuce could be even better than Bradley eventually.