Revisiting the Vucevic Trade

PrimeThyme · Post #1 » by **PrimeThyme** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:13 am

I've been giving this trade a lot of thought as of late, && even went back to the initial Vucevic trade thread to refresh my mind on the initial reactions the board had towards it.

At the time, it was a mixed bag, to say the least. Some weren't happy with the return while some thought a full-scale rebuild was a bad idea. Others either liked it or thought it was a great trade. I was personally pretty high on it from the jump, but for most of my time on this board, I fell in the "ready to move on from the Vucevic era" camp so I'd been ready for a rebuild for a long time.

The trade sent out Vucevic/Aminus's horrible contract and got us back WCJ, two 1st's, and an expiring OPJ.

8 months in, WCJ is on a team-friendly deal giving us 80-85% of Vuc's production, we've turned one of the firsts into a potential ROTY in a loaded draft class, && we still have one more first coming back in 2023. Vuc is currently Chicago's 4th (arguably 5th with how Caruso is playing) best player and is sitting out due to COVID protocols.

Personally, I think this has the chance to be a franchise-altering trade for us. Not only is Wagner proving to be a home run && WCJ a starting level center, but the trade also positioned us in the draft last year to take Suggs.

I'm interested to hear how opinions on the move have either changed or stayed the same.

thelead · Post #2 » by **thelead** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:35 am

That deal was absolutely contingent on the pick we got back. I voted A and not A+++ because we (likely) didn't land a superstar (very unreasonable I know). We lucked out once the trade went down and the bulls started losing and then Zack went down. Getting the 8th pick, making the right pick in Franz, and signing WCJ for what we did makes this an A at worst... and I haven't mentioned next year's pick yet. The front office crushed that deal.

Xatticus · Post #3 » by **Xatticus** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:08 am

thelead wrote:That deal was absolutely contingent on the pick we got back. I voted A and not A+++ because we (likely) didn't land a superstar (very unreasonable I know). We lucked out once the trade went down and the bulls started losing and then Zack went down. Getting the 8th pick, making the right pick in Franz, and signing WCJ for what we did makes this an A at worst... and I haven't mentioned next year's pick yet. The front office crushed that deal.

Hater.

thelead · Post #4 » by **thelead** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:55 am

Xatticus wrote:
thelead wrote:That deal was absolutely contingent on the pick we got back. I voted A and not A+++ because we (likely) didn't land a superstar (very unreasonable I know). We lucked out once the trade went down and the bulls started losing and then Zack went down. Getting the 8th pick, making the right pick in Franz, and signing WCJ for what we did makes this an A at worst... and I haven't mentioned next year's pick yet. The front office crushed that deal.

Hater.

I would have gone for A+. A+++ is too much for me :lol:

DiplomaticMagic · Post #5 » by **DiplomaticMagic** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:19 am

The trade was an absolute homerun. Dont forget we likely dont get Suggs without trading AG, Vuc and Fournier too

GelbeWand09 · Post #6 » by **GelbeWand09** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:29 am

We tried to built a decade long around the 4th best player of a wanna be contender. If AG doesnt had enough, we probably still start the 3 Amigos.

So yeah great trade for me.

RookieStar · Post #7 » by **RookieStar** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:40 am

I would think just an A for me... reason is, Vuc is probably the only Magic player who I like after the Dwightmare. Sad to see him go.

ORLMagicGirl15 · Post #8 » by **ORLMagicGirl15** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:58 am

Dwight Howard is the gift that keeps on giving. To think, we went from Dwight—>Vuc—>WCJ & Wagner. It has been an absolutely pleasure to watch all 4 players.

Granted, I understand that Dwight is too far removed from the Vuc trade to give him any credit for the trade but to see production from the players due to the first trade has been a pleasure.

On a side note, this new core is so refreshing to watch. Even with the losses we see something in this team.

jezzerinho · Post #9 » by **jezzerinho** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:40 am

It's a great trade in hindsight. Vooch - as talented as he is - gave us 2 great seasons in 2 contract years and the rest was good. It's not healthy having your best player being a center in today's NBA so to flip him for a center who is good enough to start, plus Wagner plus another pick (and to dump a ton of salary in the process), is objectively a win. It's not to say Franz is already better than Vooch or that we should expect anything more than a Chuma/Hampton level player from the remaining pick.
But the combo of moving away from center-driven schemes, salary savings, Wagner's seemingly very high floor (called that btw!) and the small chance of another VG player in the next draft plus letting us recover from Buddyball-fatigue.....

It was a very positive trade fot Orlando. Id give it a B+ so far with A+ potential depending on Wagner and cap usage.

Post #10 » by **Knightro** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:53 pm

A when it happened. A+++ now considering that one of the picks already turned out to be Franz.

Xatticus · Post #11 » by **Xatticus** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:58 pm

You should put the original thread in the OP. I tried to find it but couldn't. I'm interested in reading the takes at the time.

Optimus_Steel · Post #12 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:02 pm

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

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The Real Dalic · Post #13 » by **The Real Dalic** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:07 pm

Franz alone makes it a homerun trade. Adding WCJ and another pick yet to be made are huge bonuses.

The Nuggets trade needed to be done, but I'm not as high on that one. RJ's been okay at best and the pick will likely not be as good. But AG isn't exactly an amazing player either and we needed to move on from him. If the FO happens to hit on the Nuggets pick, I'll view that trade differently.

But it's good to see Vuc playing for a winning team with hopes of being great and we also got what we wanted to jumpstart our rebuild.

Jadoogar · Post #14 » by **Jadoogar** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:27 pm

no doubt home run.
You got Franz with the extra pick and don't forget, you probably don't get Suggs without embracing the tank. WCJ is a solid player to take a flier on and looks to be performing well so far. Not to mention, you have one more pick coming.

PrimeThyme · Post #15 » by **PrimeThyme** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:18 pm

Xatticus wrote:You should put the original thread in the OP. I tried to find it but couldn't. I'm interested in reading the takes at the time.

I tried embedding it within the post but couldn’t figure it out. This is the thread, some other reactions were in the trade deadline/Official spec thread.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2066560

Skin · Post #16 » by **Skin** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:38 pm

Vuc was a great person who loved Orlando and I appreciate that about him. But he needed to go a long time ago and I'm glad we didn't wait too long because the return was FANTASTIC!!!! A+++++++++++++++

Last Guardian · Post #17 » by **Last Guardian** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:24 pm

Getting a top 10 pick for Vuc is highway robbery. He's got some skills but he always was a good stats guy on a bad team. Personally think he has very little impact on wins.

Skybox · Post #18 » by **Skybox** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:12 pm

No doubt a huge win for ORL but that doesn't have to be a (typical) knock on Vuc...he's clearly the best player in the trade for the foreseeable future and is better for 2021 CHI than WCJ and even Franz would be. Calling him empty stats is such a tired take...knowing your 4th best player can average (AVERAGE) 20, 12, and 4 means real depth. He's not as good as his ORL stats - but he proved capable of getting those stats when asked. Only player we've had in a long while that even sniffed the All Star Ballot but no doubt a good trade. For CHI, when someone gets hurt or schemed out of a game, Vuc will remind everyone what he can do when needed. In the meantime, he humbly accepts his role while winning games...he would have done the same here if he had any teammates that would be better than 6th best guys on CHI. You think DeRozan and Lavine aren't benefitting from the threat of Vuc being on the floor?

Getting off Aminu's deal at the same time was meaningful too.

I LOVE the results for ORL but it's not like CHI traded Kevin McHale & Robert Parrish for Joe Barry Carroll. Still an A, but A+ would have to have been straight up theft.

The Effect · Post #19 » by **The Effect** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:12 pm

thelead wrote:That deal was absolutely contingent on the pick we got back. I voted A and not A+++ because we (likely) didn't land a superstar (very unreasonable I know). We lucked out once the trade went down and the bulls started losing and then Zack went down. Getting the 8th pick, making the right pick in Franz, and signing WCJ for what we did makes this an A at worst... and I haven't mentioned next year's pick yet. The front office crushed that deal.

I disagree, Fran has all the potential to be a Vuc level star, if not bigger star. Superstar? maybe not, to me superstars are Lebron, Giannis, curry, kd etc. We werent getting that back for Vuc

As for the deal, ill say A++++
20 year old Wagner making 5m a year is already better than a 31 year old 25m per year Vuc

Add in Wendell, another 1st rounder AND getting to dump Aminu and there is literally no way the trade could of played out better for us

thelead · Post #20 » by **thelead** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:27 pm

The Effect wrote:
thelead wrote:That deal was absolutely contingent on the pick we got back. I voted A and not A+++ because we (likely) didn't land a superstar (very unreasonable I know). We lucked out once the trade went down and the bulls started losing and then Zack went down. Getting the 8th pick, making the right pick in Franz, and signing WCJ for what we did makes this an A at worst... and I haven't mentioned next year's pick yet. The front office crushed that deal.

I disagree, Fran has all the potential to be a Vuc level star, if not bigger star. Superstar? maybe not, to me superstars are Lebron, Giannis, curry, kd etc. We werent getting that back for Vuc

As for the deal, ill say A++++
20 year old Wagner making 5m a year is already better than a 31 year old 25m per year Vuc

Add in Wendell, another 1st rounder AND getting to dump Aminu and there is literally no way the trade could of played out better for us

I said they crushed it and gave it an A... :lol:

You make it sound like I'm hating on the deal. If this deal is an A+++ what would you rate the trade if instead of Franz, who I love, we drafted a Luka (superstar) level player? That's all I'm saying in my post. There is no hate at all.

At the time of the deal I hated the deal but it was because the Bulls were not on track to get the 8th pick. They ended up injured and playing poorly the rest of the way. We got lucky and we deserve it after the decade we've been through 8-)

Grade the trade 8 months in