Hakeem vs Duncan: Offense and Defense

No-more-rings · Post #1 » by **No-more-rings** » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:33 pm

Vote above for how you would compare the 2 as players.

ty 4191 · Post #2 » by **ty 4191** » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:23 pm

Worth considering.

Tim Duncan is the only player in history with 100 Offensive Win Shares AND 100 Defensive Win Shares.

eminence · Post #3 » by **eminence** » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:42 pm

I consider them offensive equals and prefer Duncan on defense.

Statlanta · Post #4 » by **Statlanta** » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:43 pm

Duncan on Offense Hakeem on Defense.

Matt15 · Post #5 » by **Matt15** » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:06 pm

Offense- Toss-Up( Hakeem was a more talented scorer but Duncan the better passer)
Defense- I take Hakeems due to his athleticism and versatility

KobesScarf · Post #6 » by **KobesScarf** » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:09 pm

Hakeem is better defensively. Duncan better offensively. Duncan better rebounder

feyki · Post #7 » by **feyki** » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:10 pm

Hakeem with significant difference on both ends. Only aspect favors Duncan is rebounding. Hakeem has the rest.

70sFan · Post #8 » by **70sFan** » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:32 pm

I haven't tracked Duncan yet, so expect me to bump this thread 2 months later

GSP · Post #9 » by **GSP** » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:52 pm

KobesScarf wrote:Hakeem is better defensively. Duncan better offensively. Duncan better rebounder

Rebounder isn't separate from offense and defense...... There's offensive and defensive rebounding which you're aware of so I don't know why you brought that up like it's a separate category

henshao · Post #10 » by **henshao** » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:54 pm

I'm not really sure Duncan is a clear better rebounder. That might come down to which Duncan vs which Olajuwon

No-more-rings · Post #11 » by **No-more-rings** » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:39 am

ty 4191 wrote:Worth considering.

Tim Duncan is the only player in history with 100 Offensive Win Shares AND 100 Defensive Win Shares.

That seems more a testament to his longevity. The focus is primes only.

KobesScarf · Post #12 » by **KobesScarf** » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:21 am

GSP wrote:
KobesScarf wrote:Hakeem is better defensively. Duncan better offensively. Duncan better rebounder

Rebounder isn't separate from offense and defense...... There's offensive and defensive rebounding which you're aware of so I don't know why you brought that up like it's a separate category

I consider it its own category. Like special teams in football, rebounding is what happens inbetween offense and defense.

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #13 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:44 am

Hakeem was the better player.
Duncan was better at longevity.
Duncan was better at not getting fed up.
Duncan was better at staying interested during the regular season but Duncan never played on bad or mediocre teams.
Duncan was better at getting his teamates to trust the coach.

ceiling raiser · Post #14 » by **ceiling raiser** » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:20 am

Hakeem defensively. Offensively kind of a tie, generally speakng. Duncan is a superior passer/playmaker, but Hakeem is super-resilient in the playoffs.

Resiliency of course depends on how you view the Sonics, of course. In a comparison with Duncan who is not an all-time offensive player this isn't a huge deal, but when comparing to GOATs this does matter. I view this matchup similarly to Shaq defensively vs the Jazz.

Since both Hakeem and Shaq are knocking on the door of the top five, I think having poor matchups or being able to be gameplanned against does hurt when it's close. In a sense, this is why I could go with Duncan ahead of both of them. For the same reason it's why I have been lukewarm on LeBron, but the 2013 finals were a turning point for him in terms of being able to punish teams for playing him like the Spurs did. Magic developed similarly (post game). You can argue Kareem did as well (this was more adding bulk to deal with strong defenders like Wilt/Nate), though he did still struggle with the Moses matchup so it's an issue for me.

My current top 4 is probably:

Jordan - no weaknesses in his game, offensively or defensively
Russell - no defensive weaknesses, and plays within your offense (there is an argument his passing is overrated, though)
LeBron - conquered his offensive weakness, very well-rounded
Magic - became a terrific scorer, doesn't hurt your defense (I liked him in Dunleavy's system on that end)

with Duncan/Hakeem/Kareem potentially at the 5 spot.

I could see Curry finishing in the top 5, but the last time he played meaningful playoff basketball his Finals opponent was able to trap him. Some of this was the roster around him, and both Klay/KD being hurt. If he wins it all this year he could make my top 5, but I would like to see more longevity. Magic had a comparable number of prime seasons, but I do bump him higher since I think he plays longer in today's NBA and is a unique exception based on the stigma/lack of knowledge on HIV.

Rest of my top 10 (well, 11) is players with potentially flaws in their games who were still great (Shaq, Curry) as well as guys who didn't have team success that adds some degree of uncertainty for me, even if circumstances were extraordinary (West, Garnett).

KD is hard to tell. I can see him in the class of some of those guys, especially given what a game-changer he is on defense nowadays. Oscar probably deserves to be mentioned alongside them as well, but he is a player I struggle to rate properly.

No-more-rings · Post #15 » by **No-more-rings** » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:21 pm

eminence wrote:I consider them offensive equals and prefer Duncan on defense.

What makes Duncan better on defense in your eyes? Duncan has some impeccable team results defensively for sure, Hakeem has some pretty impressive years as well although he definitely had less help on defense.

Colbinii · Post #16 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:30 pm

KobesScarf wrote:
GSP wrote:
KobesScarf wrote:Hakeem is better defensively. Duncan better offensively. Duncan better rebounder

Rebounder isn't separate from offense and defense...... There's offensive and defensive rebounding which you're aware of so I don't know why you brought that up like it's a separate category
I consider it its own category. Like special teams in football, rebounding is what happens inbetween offense and defense.

I teeder between considering rebounding its own thing or encompassing it with offense or defense but the special teams analogy is a good analogy.

I also don't believe it matters and boils down to semantics.

Djoker · Post #17 » by **Djoker** » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:30 pm

Hakeem is better on offense and I'd say it's a wash on defense.

Jaivl · Post #18 » by **Jaivl** » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:55 pm

Duncan a biiiit better on offense, wash on defense.

jdzimme3 · Post #19 » by **jdzimme3** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:22 am

Interesting to contrast the poll and the comments. I have Hakeem slightly better on both ends. If Hakeem had the talent around him that Duncan did I think it would be even clearer.

eminence · Post #20 » by **eminence** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:43 am

No-more-rings wrote:
eminence wrote:I consider them offensive equals and prefer Duncan on defense.

What makes Duncan better on defense in your eyes? Duncan has some impeccable team results defensively for sure, Hakeem has some pretty impressive years as well although he definitely had less help on defense.

I value RS a bit more than some, so that’s a part of it, I think Duncans fundamentals (hehe) just let him more consistently bring impact from game to game and season to season. I answered for ‘prime’ where I think that consistency factor carries a bit of weight. Peak for peak I probably still go Duncan but it’s truly neck and neck there.

Hakeem vs Duncan for primes