Tank World Order (6.0)

[720]

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If Mathurin keeps this up, I honestly think he'll go 6th right after Duren. I'm not saying he's the same style of player but in comparison to other CAN talent level wise I can see him being above Wiggins, Barret and closer to SGA.

Of course there's a chance guys like Brown, Hardy, PB Jr etc MIGHT be developed to better players but I don't think teams can see a stud player like that on the table and just pass for the hopes to become one.

A lot of great second year players this year. He is really fun to watch.

[720]

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Keegan Murray continuing his destruction of the NCAA.

[Psubs]

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Keegan Murray continuing his destruction of the NCAA.

3 Blocks and 1 Steal with only 1 foul!!!

[Ell Curry]

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Keegan Murray continuing his destruction of the NCAA.

Feels like he'll go to someone in the Portland, San Antonio, Indiana, Sacramento group, they all need a starting forward who can shoot it more than any other spot really.

[720]

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Keegan Murray continuing his destruction of the NCAA.

Feels like he'll go to someone in the Portland, San Antonio, Indiana, Sacramento group, they all need a starting forward who can shoot it more than any other spot really.

Yeah for sure, in that group of lotto teams that need someone that’s instant impact.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Watch on YouTube

Keegan Murray continuing his destruction of the NCAA.

Honestly the better Keegan plays and/or the better we play, he's going to cross the threshhold of where we are in the standings or we're going to be too good to get inside the top 10...so it won't work out. He'd be more valuable on a team built to win rather than focused on developing (or tanking or "stealth"-tanking), which I think we will want to be next year (given we have FVV/Siakam/OG). I wonder about the value of drafting another forward though, anyways. We seem to be pretty full there already, even if the organization likes 69 guys. (pause).

[GreatWhiteStiff]

3 Blocks and 1 Steal with only 1 foul!!!

His yearly stats have almost 45 STocks to just 13 turnovers. And just 18 fouls.

[pingpongrac]

I've been curious about something...

The main reasons for tanking last year were that there was all-star talent to be found in a deep/top-heavy draft and it was a pandemic year where we were playing in Tampa away from home fans. This TWO line of thinking kicked off as early as our 2-8 start (after we lost 3 games in part due to bad officiating and 2 others by 1 point after Siakam missed back-to-back shots at the buzzer), but it really took off in the midst of our 9-game losing streak when the season was derailed by COVID. Most of TWO kept repeating that it was a one-off thing and we would go back to competing the following season.

The same things are being said again this season, but this time TWO was in full force before the season even started. Even after drafting Scottie (who has top 5 or even MVP potential) and Banton (who has the tools to be at the very least a good bench piece after a year or two of development) plus also trading away two of our oldest players for two additional young players. The original arguments (we need to draft a potential superstar, we need more young talent, etc.) went out the window and now the goal of TWO is to maximize our chances at finding more top-end talent to pair with Scottie by tanking another year because we aren't good enough to win the Championship right this moment.

The issue I have with TWO is the finish line seemingly keeps being pushed back. Where/when does it end? If the main goal is to hit a homerun in the draft and walk away with a superstar talent, didn't we already succeed with Scottie? How many generational talents do we need on our team before we can start competing and pushing for the playoffs to get some experience? What happens if the player we draft in 6 months ends up projecting to max out as a solid starter and/or we start off with a similar underwhelming record next season?

Some people are insisting that they're not calling for some big tank job, but we're already on year 2 of TWO and there are numerous discussions around trading at least one of Siakam/FVV for more picks. If we trade either of them (FVV in particular), suddenly we're looking at 3-4 years of tanking -- at which point, the other vet probably requests a trade or leaves during FA because they're tired of winning ~30 games and the inexperience of their teammates.

Whenever we have been healthy (even mostly healthy), we have been a good team in spite of the awful bench because our top 5 players have been so good. Scottie is way better than expected, OG and GTJ have both improved a lot over the past 12 months, FVV is still improving and Siakam has regained some all-star form. I just don't understand why we can't just play out the season and see what happens. Our best players are way too good to finish in the bottom third of the league again. Is the 10th-12th pick really that valuable that we should waste a season of potential playoff experience? Why not just live with the results whether it be good or bad?

[God Squad]

I don't like a core of FVV/Pascal and OG and question Scotties fit with them. But I also don't like this draft class as much as everyone else around here at all. TBH I've only been watching games to see Scotties development as player.

I've said from the beginning that regardless if you're TwO or Team Mediocre we all have zero say on which direction we take as a team. So why many come here to debate a subject that is clearly subjective is beyond me.

Again we have no say in the direction Masai/Bobby take. Just enjoy the ride.

[NinjaBro]

I've been curious about something...

The main reasons for tanking last year were that there was all-star talent to be found in a deep/top-heavy draft and it was a pandemic year where we were playing in Tampa away from home fans. This TWO line of thinking kicked off as early as our 2-8 start (after we lost 3 games in part due to bad officiating and 2 others by 1 point after Siakam missed back-to-back shots at the buzzer), but it really took off in the midst of our 9-game losing streak when the season was derailed by COVID. Most of TWO kept repeating that it was a one-off thing and we would go back to competing the following season.

The same things are being said again this season, but this time TWO was in full force before the season even started. Even after drafting Scottie (who has top 5 or even MVP potential) and Banton (who has the tools to be at the very least a good bench piece after a year or two of development) plus also trading away two of our oldest players for two additional young players. The original arguments (we need to draft a potential superstar, we need more young talent, etc.) went out the window and now the goal of TWO is to maximize our chances at finding more top-end talent to pair with Scottie by tanking another year because we aren't good enough to win the Championship right this moment.

The issue I have with TWO is the finish line seemingly keeps being pushed back. Where/when does it end? If the main goal is to hit a homerun in the draft and walk away with a superstar talent, didn't we already succeed with Scottie? How many generational talents do we need on our team before we can start competing and pushing for the playoffs to get some experience? What happens if the player we draft in 6 months ends up projecting to max out as a solid starter and/or we start off with a similar underwhelming record next season?

Some people are insisting that they're not calling for some big tank job, but we're already on year 2 of TWO and there are numerous discussions around trading at least one of Siakam/FVV for more picks. If we trade either of them (FVV in particular), suddenly we're looking at 3-4 years of tanking -- at which point, the other vet probably requests a trade or leaves during FA because they're tired of winning ~30 games and the inexperience of their teammates.

Whenever we have been healthy (even mostly healthy), we have been a good team in spite of the awful bench because our top 5 players have been so good. Scottie is way better than expected, OG and GTJ have both improved a lot over the past 12 months, FVV is still improving and Siakam has regained some all-star form. I just don't understand why we can't just play out the season and see what happens. Our best players are way too good to finish in the bottom third of the league again. Is the 10th-12th pick really that valuable that we should waste a season of potential playoff experience? Why not just live with the results whether it be good or bad?

[Los_29]

I've been curious about something...

The main reasons for tanking last year were that there was all-star talent to be found in a deep/top-heavy draft and it was a pandemic year where we were playing in Tampa away from home fans. This TWO line of thinking kicked off as early as our 2-8 start (after we lost 3 games in part due to bad officiating and 2 others by 1 point after Siakam missed back-to-back shots at the buzzer), but it really took off in the midst of our 9-game losing streak when the season was derailed by COVID. Most of TWO kept repeating that it was a one-off thing and we would go back to competing the following season.

The same things are being said again this season, but this time TWO was in full force before the season even started. Even after drafting Scottie (who has top 5 or even MVP potential) and Banton (who has the tools to be at the very least a good bench piece after a year or two of development) plus also trading away two of our oldest players for two additional young players. The original arguments (we need to draft a potential superstar, we need more young talent, etc.) went out the window and now the goal of TWO is to maximize our chances at finding more top-end talent to pair with Scottie by tanking another year because we aren't good enough to win the Championship right this moment.

The issue I have with TWO is the finish line seemingly keeps being pushed back. Where/when does it end? If the main goal is to hit a homerun in the draft and walk away with a superstar talent, didn't we already succeed with Scottie? How many generational talents do we need on our team before we can start competing and pushing for the playoffs to get some experience? What happens if the player we draft in 6 months ends up projecting to max out as a solid starter and/or we start off with a similar underwhelming record next season?

Some people are insisting that they're not calling for some big tank job, but we're already on year 2 of TWO and there are numerous discussions around trading at least one of Siakam/FVV for more picks. If we trade either of them (FVV in particular), suddenly we're looking at 3-4 years of tanking -- at which point, the other vet probably requests a trade or leaves during FA because they're tired of winning ~30 games and the inexperience of their teammates.

Whenever we have been healthy (even mostly healthy), we have been a good team in spite of the awful bench because our top 5 players have been so good. Scottie is way better than expected, OG and GTJ have both improved a lot over the past 12 months, FVV is still improving and Siakam has regained some all-star form. I just don't understand why we can't just play out the season and see what happens. Our best players are way too good to finish in the bottom third of the league again. Is the 10th-12th pick really that valuable that we should waste a season of potential playoff experience? Why not just live with the results whether it be good or bad?

tWo just lives in a fantasy world where everyone in the lottery become superstars. When in reality you're lucky to get 1-2 all-stars in the lottery each year. They blatantly ignore history. Atlanta, Minnesota, New York, LA Lakers, Orlando, New Orleans, Sacramento, Detroit, Washington and Philadelphia's failures in the lottery don't exist to them. Even Denver, Miami and Milwaukee have failed in the lottery. Even we drafted Poeltl in the lottery and that was the 9th pick in the draft.

Can you imagine how delusional someone must be to think they can get a running mate for Scottie in the draft? What are the chances that who we draft in the lottery is better than Siakam or FVV? I don't think tWo wants the answer to this one.

tWo lives in a fantasy land.

[will]

Watch on YouTube

As a complete sidenote, it would be great if Bennedict Mathurin stuck with 'Bennedict Mathurin' instead of 'Ben Mathurin'.

Bennedict just sounds like a great villain name. Ben just sounds soft.

Or maybe because of seeing Ben SImmons.

[will]

Watch on YouTube

Keegan Murray continuing his destruction of the NCAA.

Honestly the better Keegan plays and/or the better we play, he's going to cross the threshhold of where we are in the standings or we're going to be too good to get inside the top 10...so it won't work out. He'd be more valuable on a team built to win rather than focused on developing (or tanking or "stealth"-tanking), which I think we will want to be next year (given we have FVV/Siakam/OG). I wonder about the value of drafting another forward though, anyways. We seem to be pretty full there already, even if the organization likes 69 guys. (pause).

Pause

Depending on who drafts him, he could be a flat out great scorer on a crappy team, or a do-it-all-jack of all trades type of a player on a winning/contending squad.

Can't even have enough 69 guys (pause) who can hoop and contribute in a variety of ways.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't like a core of FVV/Pascal and OG and question Scotties fit with them. But I also don't like this draft class as much as everyone else around here at all. TBH I've only been watching games to see Scotties development as player.

Realistically speaking, there are many options beyond "tank" for core or hope that current core works out. You don't have to like what you see in order to support seeing where it goes, because there are positive outcomes that come with competing, trading, culture, etc. Just as there are positive outcomes that come with tanking and getting someone good.

The current core doesn't have to be an exact fit, but trade value tends to increase when teams are winning because the talent prove themselves as contributors to good outcomes. Not only that there's little external pressure to make moves when you win, so you're negotiating from a position of strength. Additionally, young players need time to grow. Teams need to evaluate off-seasons of work to determine whether they can add skill easily.

Draft classes don't matter all that much, unless there's a no doubter like LeBron. That's the only time a draft class matters, and it's really only in the context of one, maybe two teams striking oil. It's really hard to plan around that.

[will]

Man, if any one of the top 10 projected recently in the 2022 NBA draft were to be drafted by the Raptors...HOOO MAN.

[NBA Sheady]

I've been curious about something...

The main reasons for tanking last year were that there was all-star talent to be found in a deep/top-heavy draft and it was a pandemic year where we were playing in Tampa away from home fans. This TWO line of thinking kicked off as early as our 2-8 start (after we lost 3 games in part due to bad officiating and 2 others by 1 point after Siakam missed back-to-back shots at the buzzer), but it really took off in the midst of our 9-game losing streak when the season was derailed by COVID. Most of TWO kept repeating that it was a one-off thing and we would go back to competing the following season.

The same things are being said again this season, but this time TWO was in full force before the season even started. Even after drafting Scottie (who has top 5 or even MVP potential) and Banton (who has the tools to be at the very least a good bench piece after a year or two of development) plus also trading away two of our oldest players for two additional young players. The original arguments (we need to draft a potential superstar, we need more young talent, etc.) went out the window and now the goal of TWO is to maximize our chances at finding more top-end talent to pair with Scottie by tanking another year because we aren't good enough to win the Championship right this moment.

The issue I have with TWO is the finish line seemingly keeps being pushed back. Where/when does it end? If the main goal is to hit a homerun in the draft and walk away with a superstar talent, didn't we already succeed with Scottie? How many generational talents do we need on our team before we can start competing and pushing for the playoffs to get some experience? What happens if the player we draft in 6 months ends up projecting to max out as a solid starter and/or we start off with a similar underwhelming record next season?

Some people are insisting that they're not calling for some big tank job, but we're already on year 2 of TWO and there are numerous discussions around trading at least one of Siakam/FVV for more picks. If we trade either of them (FVV in particular), suddenly we're looking at 3-4 years of tanking -- at which point, the other vet probably requests a trade or leaves during FA because they're tired of winning ~30 games and the inexperience of their teammates.

Whenever we have been healthy (even mostly healthy), we have been a good team in spite of the awful bench because our top 5 players have been so good. Scottie is way better than expected, OG and GTJ have both improved a lot over the past 12 months, FVV is still improving and Siakam has regained some all-star form. I just don't understand why we can't just play out the season and see what happens. Our best players are way too good to finish in the bottom third of the league again. Is the 10th-12th pick really that valuable that we should waste a season of potential playoff experience? Why not just live with the results whether it be good or bad?

tWo just lives in a fantasy world where everyone in the lottery become superstars. When in reality you're lucky to get 1-2 all-stars in the lottery each year. They blatantly ignore history. Atlanta, Minnesota, New York, LA Lakers, Orlando, New Orleans, Sacramento, Detroit, Washington and Philadelphia's failures in the lottery don't exist to them. Even Denver, Miami and Milwaukee have failed in the lottery. Even we drafted Poeltl in the lottery and that was the 9th pick in the draft.

Can you imagine how delusional someone must be to think they can get a running mate for Scottie in the draft? What are the chances that who we draft in the lottery is better than Siakam or FVV? I don't think tWo wants the answer to this one.

tWo lives in a fantasy land.

Especially if they think we can tank and retain Scottie. Even when winning we have struggled to retain top talent. Anyone who thinks we can tank and retain Scottie is on that dope.

[NinjaBro]

I've been curious about something...

The main reasons for tanking last year were that there was all-star talent to be found in a deep/top-heavy draft and it was a pandemic year where we were playing in Tampa away from home fans. This TWO line of thinking kicked off as early as our 2-8 start (after we lost 3 games in part due to bad officiating and 2 others by 1 point after Siakam missed back-to-back shots at the buzzer), but it really took off in the midst of our 9-game losing streak when the season was derailed by COVID. Most of TWO kept repeating that it was a one-off thing and we would go back to competing the following season.

The same things are being said again this season, but this time TWO was in full force before the season even started. Even after drafting Scottie (who has top 5 or even MVP potential) and Banton (who has the tools to be at the very least a good bench piece after a year or two of development) plus also trading away two of our oldest players for two additional young players. The original arguments (we need to draft a potential superstar, we need more young talent, etc.) went out the window and now the goal of TWO is to maximize our chances at finding more top-end talent to pair with Scottie by tanking another year because we aren't good enough to win the Championship right this moment.

The issue I have with TWO is the finish line seemingly keeps being pushed back. Where/when does it end? If the main goal is to hit a homerun in the draft and walk away with a superstar talent, didn't we already succeed with Scottie? How many generational talents do we need on our team before we can start competing and pushing for the playoffs to get some experience? What happens if the player we draft in 6 months ends up projecting to max out as a solid starter and/or we start off with a similar underwhelming record next season?

Some people are insisting that they're not calling for some big tank job, but we're already on year 2 of TWO and there are numerous discussions around trading at least one of Siakam/FVV for more picks. If we trade either of them (FVV in particular), suddenly we're looking at 3-4 years of tanking -- at which point, the other vet probably requests a trade or leaves during FA because they're tired of winning ~30 games and the inexperience of their teammates.

Whenever we have been healthy (even mostly healthy), we have been a good team in spite of the awful bench because our top 5 players have been so good. Scottie is way better than expected, OG and GTJ have both improved a lot over the past 12 months, FVV is still improving and Siakam has regained some all-star form. I just don't understand why we can't just play out the season and see what happens. Our best players are way too good to finish in the bottom third of the league again. Is the 10th-12th pick really that valuable that we should waste a season of potential playoff experience? Why not just live with the results whether it be good or bad?

tWo just lives in a fantasy world where everyone in the lottery become superstars. When in reality you're lucky to get 1-2 all-stars in the lottery each year. They blatantly ignore history. Atlanta, Minnesota, New York, LA Lakers, Orlando, New Orleans, Sacramento, Detroit, Washington and Philadelphia's failures in the lottery don't exist to them. Even Denver, Miami and Milwaukee have failed in the lottery. Even we drafted Poeltl in the lottery and that was the 9th pick in the draft.

Can you imagine how delusional someone must be to think they can get a running mate for Scottie in the draft? What are the chances that who we draft in the lottery is better than Siakam or FVV? I don't think tWo wants the answer to this one.

tWo lives in a fantasy land.

Especially if they think we can tank and retain Scottie. Even when winning we have struggled to retain top talent. Anyone who thinks we can tank and retain Scottie is on that dope.

Including winning a championship .
TWO keeps moving the years back. First it's only a one and done year to tank so we can fluke in and get a top end talent....done. Then it's 2 years so we get a running mate for Barnes. Next it's 3 years so we can get some nice role players. Next thing we know it's 7 years and Scottie has become a superstar and is tired of losing and demands out to go to LA.

Then we start the process all over again. It's complete insanity.

[PhilBlackson]

tWo just lives in a fantasy world where everyone in the lottery become superstars. When in reality you're lucky to get 1-2 all-stars in the lottery each year. They blatantly ignore history. Atlanta, Minnesota, New York, LA Lakers, Orlando, New Orleans, Sacramento, Detroit, Washington and Philadelphia's failures in the lottery don't exist to them. Even Denver, Miami and Milwaukee have failed in the lottery. Even we drafted Poeltl in the lottery and that was the 9th pick in the draft.

Can you imagine how delusional someone must be to think they can get a running mate for Scottie in the draft? What are the chances that who we draft in the lottery is better than Siakam or FVV? I don't think tWo wants the answer to this one.

tWo lives in a fantasy land.

Especially if they think we can tank and retain Scottie. Even when winning we have struggled to retain top talent. Anyone who thinks we can tank and retain Scottie is on that dope.

Including winning a championship .
TWO keeps moving the years back. First it's only a one and done year to tank so we can fluke in and get a top end talent....done. Then it's 2 years so we get a running mate for Barnes. Next it's 3 years so we can get some nice role players. Next thing we know it's 7 years and Scottie has become a superstar and is tired of losing and demands out to go to LA.

Then we start the process all over again. It's complete insanity.

Oh look more ridiculous exaggeration!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Los_29]

tWo just lives in a fantasy world where everyone in the lottery become superstars. When in reality you're lucky to get 1-2 all-stars in the lottery each year. They blatantly ignore history. Atlanta, Minnesota, New York, LA Lakers, Orlando, New Orleans, Sacramento, Detroit, Washington and Philadelphia's failures in the lottery don't exist to them. Even Denver, Miami and Milwaukee have failed in the lottery. Even we drafted Poeltl in the lottery and that was the 9th pick in the draft.

Can you imagine how delusional someone must be to think they can get a running mate for Scottie in the draft? What are the chances that who we draft in the lottery is better than Siakam or FVV? I don't think tWo wants the answer to this one.

tWo lives in a fantasy land.

Especially if they think we can tank and retain Scottie. Even when winning we have struggled to retain top talent. Anyone who thinks we can tank and retain Scottie is on that dope.

Including winning a championship .
TWO keeps moving the years back. First it's only a one and done year to tank so we can fluke in and get a top end talent....done. Then it's 2 years so we get a running mate for Barnes. Next it's 3 years so we can get some nice role players. Next thing we know it's 7 years and Scottie has become a superstar and is tired of losing and demands out to go to LA.

Then we start the process all over again. It's complete insanity.

It will be the year 2026 and tWo will still be trying to find that "running mate" for Scottie. If we do find it then they'll want another running mate for him. It never ends. No logic behind it at all but it sure is entertaining.

They just refuse to learn from history.

[NinjaBro]

Especially if they think we can tank and retain Scottie. Even when winning we have struggled to retain top talent. Anyone who thinks we can tank and retain Scottie is on that dope.

Including winning a championship .
TWO keeps moving the years back. First it's only a one and done year to tank so we can fluke in and get a top end talent....done. Then it's 2 years so we get a running mate for Barnes. Next it's 3 years so we can get some nice role players. Next thing we know it's 7 years and Scottie has become a superstar and is tired of losing and demands out to go to LA.

Then we start the process all over again. It's complete insanity.

Oh look more ridiculous exaggeration!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

How is it exaggeration? It's playing out exactly as we speak.