Tank World Order (6.0)

[NBA Sheady]

Any team that participates in a sign and trade for a player/free agent is usually able to get that player with cap space anyway.. thus have negotiation power in the trade agreement.

Find me an example of a team that got a star player through a sign and trade, that didn't already have cap space. It will be very difficult.

I definitely wasn't thinking of a scenario where we didn't have cap. There have been seasons where an S&T or 3 way was possible.

In my opinion we've lost every star player that has come through here except for 1 Vince deal which ultimately lead to him demanding out resulting in a crippling trade.

You have to define "star" if you want to use it here, sorry. Kyle and DeMar were all-stars.. and they re-signed. Pascal was an all-star (all-nba even) and he re-signed (although as a rookie contract).

If you mean "super star".. in the general context, then we've only ever had 2 in our franchise. And the one did re-sign from his rookie contract. And that was in an era when he could have left as a rookie, as his cousin did.

And you have to come up with examples for me where a team got a free agent from a sign and trade, without having cap space.. please try to use the most recent CBA's as well if possible.

It's so cute the way you worded that last paragraph. Sorry I'm not taking homework assignments at this time.

The point is it's possible to get a top free agent without max capspace. I don't need an example to prove that is possible. The current cba is evidence of that.

[PhilBlackson]

I'm a big fan of strategies that actually work and have a long track record of success.

Still waiting for yours....tick tock.

Two recent examples would be the Bucks and our very own Raptors.

Timely trades and signings, drafting and developing players, accumulating assets, cap management.

Ahhh yes, a vague non-descriptive outline which literally nearly every franchise in the league believes they're doing lol

Gotcha...

[DelAbbot]

Ahhh yes, a vague non-descriptive outline which literally nearly every franchise in the league believes they're doing lol

Gotcha...

Why do you bother arguing with someone who doesn't even spend time to think through (and write down) their arguments.

[canada_dry]

The question isn't if he's a good pick but if he's AS good...which he's not and what made it worthwhile not to squeek into the Playoffs because it changes the trajectory of our franchise.

You're comparing pick 4 to pick 16 lmao

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Doesn’t that essentially support the idea of tanking?

no because we r comparing from.ranges 10-15 in the context of this team currently...

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[canada_dry]

Only displaying your own stupidity lol making the Play IN (keyword "IN" as in, into the Playoffs) is what YOU are advocating. We're advocating to remain OUT of the Playoffs and in the lottery.

How many times do you need to embarrass yourself before you log off?!

The play IN is the tournament u dolt lol. U are basically conceding they'll at least be in that mini postseason tournament and want them in and to lose. That's what would have to happen to be in that 13/14 range u suggested.

I personally said above its not the worst outcome because theres at least one or 2 games of postseason experience to be had, while u , sir, keep ur one in a thousand odds of jumping into the top 4 of the draft.

The hilariousness of it is that TWO as a group go from " play in for what??" To pro play in. U hate to see it lol.

Remember what we were saying about changing of goal posts and changing of feathers? Lol

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Your stupidity truly knows no bounds.

I'll break it down so even a child like you can understand. There is no "conceding", I said LONG before you ever showed up in this thread, in fact from the 1st original "tank" thread, that I believed this team this would likely finish anywhere between 11-17 dependant on health. There's nothing to "concede" because that was a conclusion made BEFORE ever wasting my time on your low brow conversation with you. It's also not a "desire" to make the Play In...because that would mean I want the team to make the Play In, I don't...I want them to remain in the lottery, not the same thing. I'd like them to avoid it entirely and just remain in the lottery BUT I'm a logical person (if only you were lol) and I know the teams below are simply awful teams that the Raps aren't likely to fall behind them pending a major injury so that's the most probable landing spot which coincides with my original prediction and all I've said is that I prefer they stay IN the lottery (not the Play In) vs out of it as 7/8 seed in the Playoffs. That's just being objective, one day when you grow up, maybe you'll be able to get to that point.

So no goal posts have shifted here at all, you're just so poorly misinformed and speak like someone who thinks they know what they're talking about but so clearly doesn't.

You're a play in boy. Its ok.

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[canada_dry]

You're comparing pick 4 to pick 16 lmao

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Doesn’t that essentially support the idea of tanking?

Although a tool, certainly not the sharpest one in the shed.

Also a temper boy lol

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[planetmars]

I definitely wasn't thinking of a scenario where we didn't have cap. There have been seasons where an S&T or 3 way was possible.

In my opinion we've lost every star player that has come through here except for 1 Vince deal which ultimately lead to him demanding out resulting in a crippling trade.

You have to define "star" if you want to use it here, sorry. Kyle and DeMar were all-stars.. and they re-signed. Pascal was an all-star (all-nba even) and he re-signed (although as a rookie contract).

If you mean "super star".. in the general context, then we've only ever had 2 in our franchise. And the one did re-sign from his rookie contract. And that was in an era when he could have left as a rookie, as his cousin did.

And you have to come up with examples for me where a team got a free agent from a sign and trade, without having cap space.. please try to use the most recent CBA's as well if possible.

It's so cute the way you worded that last paragraph. Sorry I'm not taking homework assignments at this time.

The point is it's possible to get a top free agent without max capspace. I don't need an example to prove that is possible. The current cba is evidence of that.

I think you are really simplifying how easy it is to get a max player via free agency without cap space. I'm not trying to make you do homework.. I'm obviously making a point. You won't find many examples at all.

Most teams get their stars via trade, before they hit free agency. The Lakers even sent a lot of top tier prospects and picks to get Anthony Davis, who was going to be a free agent in a year. And they are the Lakers.

[Los_29]

Still waiting for yours....tick tock.

Two recent examples would be the Bucks and our very own Raptors.

Timely trades and signings, drafting and developing players, accumulating assets, cap management.

Ahhh yes, a vague non-descriptive outline which literally nearly every franchise in the league believes they're doing lol

Gotcha...

And yet different from tanking which has no track record of success.

And obviously lots more factors come into play but those are the general, basic principles.

If tanking worked, good GM's would be doing it. Plain and simple.

[PhilBlackson]

Two recent examples would be the Bucks and our very own Raptors.

Timely trades and signings, drafting and developing players, accumulating assets, cap management.

Ahhh yes, a vague non-descriptive outline which literally nearly every franchise in the league believes they're doing lol

Gotcha...

And yet different from tanking which has no track record of success.

So if we win while Scottie (who is here as a direct result of tanking) is on the team, you'll say what?? lol

[Los_29]

Ahhh yes, a vague non-descriptive outline which literally nearly every franchise in the league believes they're doing lol

Gotcha...

And yet different from tanking which has no track record of success.

So if we win while Scottie (who is here as a direct result of tanking) is on the team, you'll say what?? lol

It's amazing how you guys continually bring up this example. It doesn't make any sense considering the vast majority of this board were completely in favour of pulling the plug last season. Secondly, you guys want to tank THIS YEAR as well which is why this thread was started before the season even started.

You guys want to lose from day 1 of the season and some want or at least wanted to trade FVV and Pascal for FRP's. This is a strategy that doesn't work which is why people call you out on it and want examples of it working. You guys can never name any. This is why you guys are laughed at on here because you guys celebrate losses instead of wins. And for what? For a strategy that doesn't work. It truly is hilarious.

What you guys want is different to what we did last year where we kept our core intact and tanked only because of relocation, covid and injuries.

It's amazing you guys still don't know the difference between a late season tank and wanting to lose before the season even starts.

By the way, how's Christian Wood and KPJ doing? Are you starting to see why these guys have little to no value around the league.

[PhilBlackson]

And yet different from tanking which has no track record of success.

So if we win while Scottie (who is here as a direct result of tanking) is on the team, you'll say what?? lol

It's amazing how you guys continually bring up this example. It doesn't make any sense considering the vast majority of this board were completely in favour of pulling the plug last season. Secondly, you guys want to tank THIS YEAR as well which is why this thread was started before the season even started.

You guys want to lose from day 1 of the season and some want or at least wanted to trade FVV and Pascal for FRP's. This is a strategy that doesn't work which is why people call you out on it and want examples of it working. You guys can never name any. This is why you guys are laughed at on here because you guys celebrate losses instead of wins. And for what? For a strategy that doesn't work. It truly is hilarious.

What you guys want is different to what we did last year where we kept our core intact and tanked only because of relocation, covid and injuries.

It's amazing you guys still don't know the difference between a late season tank and wanting to lose before the season even starts.

By the way, how's Christian Wood and KPJ doing? Are you starting to see why these guys have little to no value around the league.

You're attempting (and failing) to make a Strawman's argument lol...stay on track.

You said tanking doesn't work (period), it doesn't matter if it was done before the season started or to end the season.

You said it does NOT work but we DID and we got Scottie as a RESULT...so again if we win with Scottie does it still not work?? Certainly we should trade him away because it doesn't right??

[canada_dry]

So if we win while Scottie (who is here as a direct result of tanking) is on the team, you'll say what?? lol

It's amazing how you guys continually bring up this example. It doesn't make any sense considering the vast majority of this board were completely in favour of pulling the plug last season. Secondly, you guys want to tank THIS YEAR as well which is why this thread was started before the season even started.

You guys want to lose from day 1 of the season and some want or at least wanted to trade FVV and Pascal for FRP's. This is a strategy that doesn't work which is why people call you out on it and want examples of it working. You guys can never name any. This is why you guys are laughed at on here because you guys celebrate losses instead of wins. And for what? For a strategy that doesn't work. It truly is hilarious.

What you guys want is different to what we did last year where we kept our core intact and tanked only because of relocation, covid and injuries.

It's amazing you guys still don't know the difference between a late season tank and wanting to lose before the season even starts.

By the way, how's Christian Wood and KPJ doing? Are you starting to see why these guys have little to no value around the league.

You're attempting (and failing) to make a Strawman's argument lol...stay on track.

You said tanking doesn't work (period), it doesn't matter if it was done before the season started or to end the season.

You said it does NOT work but we DID and we got Scottie as a RESULT...so again if we win with Scottie does it still not work?? Certainly we should trade him away because it doesn't right??

Most arent anti pivot mid season if necessary. Who said it doesnt work PERIOD? They are against trying to come into a season and be bad like tWOadvocated. Perhaps ur the one who cant see the forest from the trees and really doesn't understand what the opposition is. Ironic.

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[PhilBlackson]

It's amazing how you guys continually bring up this example. It doesn't make any sense considering the vast majority of this board were completely in favour of pulling the plug last season. Secondly, you guys want to tank THIS YEAR as well which is why this thread was started before the season even started.

You guys want to lose from day 1 of the season and some want or at least wanted to trade FVV and Pascal for FRP's. This is a strategy that doesn't work which is why people call you out on it and want examples of it working. You guys can never name any. This is why you guys are laughed at on here because you guys celebrate losses instead of wins. And for what? For a strategy that doesn't work. It truly is hilarious.

What you guys want is different to what we did last year where we kept our core intact and tanked only because of relocation, covid and injuries.

It's amazing you guys still don't know the difference between a late season tank and wanting to lose before the season even starts.

By the way, how's Christian Wood and KPJ doing? Are you starting to see why these guys have little to no value around the league.

You're attempting (and failing) to make a Strawman's argument lol...stay on track.

You said tanking doesn't work (period), it doesn't matter if it was done before the season started or to end the season.

You said it does NOT work but we DID and we got Scottie as a RESULT...so again if we win with Scottie does it still not work?? Certainly we should trade him away because it doesn't right??

Most arent anti pivot mid season if necessary. Who said it doesnt work PERIOD? .

And yet different from tanking which has no track record of success.

Keep up kid, all you had to do was scroll and/or post search Los. It's all he parrots mindlessly over and over.

[KL78192020]

I'm a big fan of strategies that actually work and have a long track record of success.

Still waiting for yours....tick tock.

Two recent examples would be the Bucks and our very own Raptors.

Timely trades and signings, drafting and developing players, accumulating assets, cap management.

Who is the next superstar the Raptors are trading for on the cheap? When will the do this?

[KL78192020]

So if we win while Scottie (who is here as a direct result of tanking) is on the team, you'll say what?? lol

It's amazing how you guys continually bring up this example. It doesn't make any sense considering the vast majority of this board were completely in favour of pulling the plug last season. Secondly, you guys want to tank THIS YEAR as well which is why this thread was started before the season even started.

You guys want to lose from day 1 of the season and some want or at least wanted to trade FVV and Pascal for FRP's. This is a strategy that doesn't work which is why people call you out on it and want examples of it working. You guys can never name any. This is why you guys are laughed at on here because you guys celebrate losses instead of wins. And for what? For a strategy that doesn't work. It truly is hilarious.

What you guys want is different to what we did last year where we kept our core intact and tanked only because of relocation, covid and injuries.

It's amazing you guys still don't know the difference between a late season tank and wanting to lose before the season even starts.

By the way, how's Christian Wood and KPJ doing? Are you starting to see why these guys have little to no value around the league.

You're attempting (and failing) to make a Strawman's argument lol...stay on track.

You said tanking doesn't work (period), it doesn't matter if it was done before the season started or to end the season.

You said it does NOT work but we DID and we got Scottie as a RESULT...so again if we win with Scottie does it still not work?? Certainly we should trade him away because it doesn't right??

Raptors will never win a championship because they tanked to get Scottie! He has to leave!

[Los_29]

You're attempting (and failing) to make a Strawman's argument lol...stay on track.

You said tanking doesn't work (period), it doesn't matter if it was done before the season started or to end the season.

You said it does NOT work but we DID and we got Scottie as a RESULT...so again if we win with Scottie does it still not work?? Certainly we should trade him away because it doesn't right??

Most arent anti pivot mid season if necessary. Who said it doesnt work PERIOD? .

And yet different from tanking which has no track record of success.

Keep up kid, all you had to do was scroll and/or post search Los. It's all he parrots mindlessly over and over.

How do you still not get it? There are clearly differences to what San Antonio, GSW, Miami and we did and the tanking that you guys are advocating for. No one was against what we did last year nor are we against it this year if a similar situation arises. But we along with Masai and every credible GM are against hoping to lose from day 1 of the season.

So yes, the style of tanking you guys want doesn’t work. Not only does it not work but it’s not based on reality.

[canada_dry]

You're attempting (and failing) to make a Strawman's argument lol...stay on track.

You said tanking doesn't work (period), it doesn't matter if it was done before the season started or to end the season.

You said it does NOT work but we DID and we got Scottie as a RESULT...so again if we win with Scottie does it still not work?? Certainly we should trade him away because it doesn't right??

Most arent anti pivot mid season if necessary. Who said it doesnt work PERIOD? .

And yet different from tanking which has no track record of success.

Keep up kid, all you had to do was scroll and/or post search Los. It's all he parrots mindlessly over and over.

Ask him. He'll clarify. In fact i think he just did above. Hes done so multiple times. Its very clear what he means when he says tanking..its the type of tanking u guys love. But u like keeping ur head in the sand. Keep up play in boy.

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[KL78192020]

Most arent anti pivot mid season if necessary. Who said it doesnt work PERIOD? .

And yet different from tanking which has no track record of success.

Keep up kid, all you had to do was scroll and/or post search Los. It's all he parrots mindlessly over and over.

How do you still not get it? There are clearly differences to what San Antonio, GSW, Miami and we did and the tanking that you guys are advocating for. No one was against what we did last year nor are we against it this year if a similar situation arises. But we along with Masai and every credible GM are against hoping to lose from day 1 of the season.

So yes, the style of tanking you guys want doesn’t work. Not only does it not work but it’s not based on reality.

styles of tanking...ok ballboy. All you guys were against the tank last year, now ya'll nutting over Scottie Barnes. Lots of post in this forum strong advocates to the end for making the playoffs. Now ya'll just making up lies.

[canada_dry]

Keep up kid, all you had to do was scroll and/or post search Los. It's all he parrots mindlessly over and over.

How do you still not get it? There are clearly differences to what San Antonio, GSW, Miami and we did and the tanking that you guys are advocating for. No one was against what we did last year nor are we against it this year if a similar situation arises. But we along with Masai and every credible GM are against hoping to lose from day 1 of the season.

So yes, the style of tanking you guys want doesn’t work. Not only does it not work but it’s not based on reality.

styles of tanking...ok ballboy. All you guys were against the tank last year, now ya'll nutting over Scottie Barnes. Lots of post in this forum strong advocates to the end for making the playoffs. Now ya'll just making up lies.

Omg dude theres so much evidence on the contrary, for most people at least, after the covid losing streak lol.

For u to deny styles of tanking and look at everything black and white, really shows a lack of nuance, and quite frankly, not being the sharpest tool , as they say lol

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[PhilBlackson]

Most arent anti pivot mid season if necessary. Who said it doesnt work PERIOD? .

And yet different from tanking which has no track record of success.

Keep up kid, all you had to do was scroll and/or post search Los. It's all he parrots mindlessly over and over.

How do you still not get it? There are clearly differences to what San Antonio, GSW, Miami and we did and the tanking that you guys are advocating for. No one was against what we did last year nor are we against it this year if a similar situation arises. But we along with Masai and every credible GM are against hoping to lose from day 1 of the season.

So yes, the style of tanking you guys want doesn’t work. Not only does it not work but it’s not based on reality.

You can't be selective and say "tanking doesn't work", "has no record of success" as you love to parrot over & over then say out the other side of your mouth well those tankings (SAS, GSW, MIA, TOR) were different lol they are STILL tanking and DID work. Take the L and move on.

Also stop making nonsense up about tanking "you guys are advocating for", I've personally repeated until I'm blue in the face from the START that I believe we finish 11-17th, I've said nothing about blowing it up before the season started so you can stop the pointless ramble each time you want to escape contradicting yourself.