Official Scottie Barnes Thread

[mdenny]

This ROY thing is so weird. Lol. Who cares?

I'm a fred fanboy and i really dont care much about the allstar game. If he gets it thats fine.

I can't imagine being angry when OG puts up 30 "because now maybe fred wont make the allstar game" lol.

Only on social and realgm do people care about that stuff. It’s a form of validation for them so they can bicker with other fanbases.

I guess i get that part up until you are angry when other players on your team succeed lol. To the poi t that you are complaining about a guy "taking too many shots" while he is sinking them.

Like....do ppl wince when our team scores and scottie's doesn't get it or the assist? Another wasted possession? Scottie gets quite a few hockey assists. Had a beauty against the knicks. Are those frusterating too?

Thing is....scottie seems to me the wrong player to take up as a favorite if you care deeply about the stat sheet. He's gonna be alot more than that.

I put down my phone 5 minutes into the game tonight. Too much "THE WRONG PPL ARE SCORING" lol.

[vulture]

This ROY thing is so weird. Lol. Who cares?

I'm a fred fanboy and i really dont care much about the allstar game. If he gets it thats fine.

I can't imagine being angry when OG puts up 30 "because now maybe fred wont make the allstar game" lol.

Only on social and realgm do people care about that stuff. It’s a form of validation for them so they can bicker with other fanbases.

I guess i get that part up until you are angry when other players on your team succeed lol. To the poi t that you are complaining about a guy "taking too many shots" while he is sinking them.

Like....do ppl wince when our team scores and scottie's doesn't get it or the assist? Another wasted possession? Scottie gets quite a few hockey assists. Had a beauty against the knicks. Are those frusterating too?

Thing is....scottie seems to me the wrong player to take up as a favorite if you care deeply about the stat sheet. He's gonna be alot more than that.

I put down my phone 5 minutes into the game tonight. Too much "THE WRONG PPL ARE SCORING" lol.

He loves seeing his teammates succeed but some on here only want him or OG to succeed.
Would I like him to get downhill a lot more? Of course but right now Fred and pascal are rolling that he can facilitate and make the team run smoothly.

[Clay Davis]

Not exactly sure why you comparing Scottie to some of the best players to ever play the game? They are outliers for a reason.

I’m not sure why I have to point this out but what he’s saying great players succeed regardless of the role (which is fine) and getting a few extra shots doesn’t hinder anyone’s development.

Man this place is so dumb.

All time great talents will succeed because they have all time great talent? Wow, that is ground breaking!

Is Scottie an all time great talent?

Are you purposefully being obtuse or do you not understand the argument is that, even if Scottie is an all-time great talent, his usage is perfectly fine and that he's not being held back by it?

[Reeko]

Or you got it, or you ain't. And Scottie Barnes has it.

[DG88]

Alfred speaks

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=RaptorsReport

[KrazyP]

To hell with all these Raptor fans wanting their best young player to develop!

Barnes - 36mpg and 19.0% usg. / 12.6 FGA

Other players who had similar roles at 20 yrs old:

Nikola Jokic - 21.7 / 19.9% usg / 7.5 FGA
Giannis Antetokounpo 31.4 mpg / 19.6% usg / 9.6 FGA
Kawhi Leonard - 24mins / 14.5% usg / 6.3 FGA
James Harden - 22 mins / 20.4% usg / 7.6 FGA
Steph Curry - 36.2 min / 21.8% usg. / 14.3 FGA

Which one of these players wasnt able to develop properly?

Not exactly sure why you comparing Scottie to some of the best players to ever play the game? They are outliers for a reason.

Not exactly sure what you are not understanding.

For those who think Scottie’s development is being hindered by lack of usage. This is not the case.

Players dont need high usage to develop. The guys above that developed into stars above didnt. Players like Pascal Siakam, OG who came into the league raw didnt either.

[aminiaturebuddha]

I put down my phone 5 minutes into the game tonight. Too much "THE WRONG PPL ARE SCORING" lol.

Yep, I stopped reading or engaging in the game thread about 10 games ago, and it's made watching games so much more enjoyable.

[Los_29]

I put down my phone 5 minutes into the game tonight. Too much "THE WRONG PPL ARE SCORING" lol.

Yep, I stopped reading or engaging in the game thread about 10 games ago, and it's made watching games so much more enjoyable.

Reading the game threads after games is wildly entertaining though. I highly recommend it.

[Tha Cynic]

Read on Twitter

?s=20


we know who

I can't believe people are taking these comments as a slight to Scottie. FVV is comparing Scottie's offence/current role to one of the best playmaking bigs in the past two decades at age 20 while also pointing out that he's more athletic.

Our offence looks very good with Scottie (and occasionally Siakam) taking on a more facilitating role and taking advantage of the occasional mismatch, second chance or transition opportunities. Isn't this basically what everyone wanted? The ball in Scottie's hands with FVV (or GTJ spotting up for open threes more often? Or was it really all just about putting up 20 shots and 20 points all along so he can win ROY?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

The fact that he ties more shots to contract does make you wonder if that's something that's on his mind lol. Maybe now it moved from taking more shots for contract to taking more shots to get into all-star game? All this is showing is that there is alot of individual calculation in what FVV does on the court and he's not shy to say it to the media. He has done it numerous times. Let's just say FVV isn't as selfless as some people like to make it seem. He's very much about betting on himself, but he's doing a better job of doing that while being smart about it. He doesn't play anymore like he's the only player who should be touching the ball.

Either way, Van Vleet has been amazing in the last month or so.

Also I am very excited about what Barnes will become and I love the way he's being developed. I actually prefer him playing the Marc Gasol right now so that he can expand everything in his game. His offense seems to come naturally to him so that will explode when the Raptors are ready for it.

[goinrogue]

I don’t think Fred wants the conversation to be about Scottie. He’s a good player but I question what he says to the media.

[Tha Cynic]

I don’t think Fred wants the conversation to be about Scottie. He’s a good player but I question what he says to the media.

His personality is definitely one that comes off as very selfish. That's one of the reasons people have had an issue with him over the years. This has even translated onto the basketball court where you could see when he was playing selfishly. It's really no different than what Boucher does at times.

The good thing is, he has actually become an excellent player for the Raptors and his game is good enough where you can overlook those tendencies.

The combination of how he started this season on the court and his comments leave no doubt in my mind that he would have an issue with Barnes getting more recognition and love.

At this stage I don't care as long the team keeps winning and he knows when to trust others to win games. I think he's actually making a big effort to change that mindset now.

[gp2015]

Barnes - 36mpg and 19.0% usg. / 12.6 FGA

Other players who had similar roles at 20 yrs old:

Nikola Jokic - 21.7 / 19.9% usg / 7.5 FGA
Giannis Antetokounpo 31.4 mpg / 19.6% usg / 9.6 FGA
Kawhi Leonard - 24mins / 14.5% usg / 6.3 FGA
James Harden - 22 mins / 20.4% usg / 7.6 FGA
Steph Curry - 36.2 min / 21.8% usg. / 14.3 FGA

Which one of these players wasnt able to develop properly?

Not exactly sure why you comparing Scottie to some of the best players to ever play the game? They are outliers for a reason.

Not exactly sure what you are not understanding.

For those who think Scottie’s development is being hindered by lack of usage. This is not the case.

Players dont need high usage to develop. The guys above that developed into stars above didnt. Players like Pascal Siakam, OG who came into the league raw didnt either.

Why were you comparing him to all time great players though?

Look at Kawhi, he was only taking 6 shots per game. Can we then assume that Scottie will be able to develop into an elite level offensive player if we only allow him to shoot ~6 times per game like Kawhi did?

Those players have all time great level talent that they could rely on no matter what development/usage plan they had. It's way too early to assume Scottie has that luxury.

You added Pascal and OG into your argument after the fact. If you had them in your original argument, I would have agreed with you. At this point, Scottie is closer to Pascal and OG talent level wise than the all time great players you mentioned. He could be a superstar but it's way too early to tell.

[Clay Davis]

Not exactly sure why you comparing Scottie to some of the best players to ever play the game? They are outliers for a reason.

Not exactly sure what you are not understanding.

For those who think Scottie’s development is being hindered by lack of usage. This is not the case.

Players dont need high usage to develop. The guys above that developed into stars above didnt. Players like Pascal Siakam, OG who came into the league raw didnt either.

Why were you comparing him to all time great players though?

Look at Kawhi, he was only taking 6 shots per game. Can we then assume that Scottie will be able to develop into an elite level offensive player if we only allow him to shoot ~6 times per game like Kawhi did?

Those players have all time great level talent that they could rely on no matter what development/usage plan they had. It's way too early to assume Scottie has that luxury.

You added Pascal and OG into your argument after the fact. If you had them in your original argument, I would have agreed with you. At this point, Scottie is closer to Pascal and OG talent level wise than the all time great players you mentioned. He could be a superstar but it's way too early to tell.

No one is comparing him personally to those players but they're using them to challenge the claim that a player with high potential needs usage spoonfed to them to become great. If you want to keep arguing that he needs more usage one could simply ask why?

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using RealGM mobile app

[gp2015]

Read on Twitter

?s=20


we know who

I can't believe people are taking these comments as a slight to Scottie. FVV is comparing Scottie's offence/current role to one of the best playmaking bigs in the past two decades at age 20 while also pointing out that he's more athletic.

Our offence looks very good with Scottie (and occasionally Siakam) taking on a more facilitating role and taking advantage of the occasional mismatch, second chance or transition opportunities. Isn't this basically what everyone wanted? The ball in Scottie's hands with FVV (or GTJ spotting up for open threes more often? Or was it really all just about putting up 20 shots and 20 points all along so he can win ROY?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

The fact that he ties more shots to contract does make you wonder if that's something that's on his mind lol. Maybe now it moved from taking more shots for contract to taking more shots to get into all-star game? All this is showing is that there is alot of individual calculation in what FVV does on the court and he's not shy to say it to the media. He has done it numerous times. Let's just say FVV isn't as selfless as some people like to make it seem. He's very much about betting on himself, but he's doing a better job of doing that while being smart about it. He doesn't play anymore like he's the only player who should be touching the ball.

Either way, Van Vleet has been amazing in the last month or so.

Also I am very excited about what Barnes will become and I love the way he's being developed. I actually prefer him playing the Marc Gasol right now so that he can expand everything in his game. His offense seems to come naturally to him so that will explode when the Raptors are ready for it.

Completely agreed with what you said. This is my main problem with FVV. Everything he says in the media has told me that he looks out for himself first and then the team second, although he would like people to think otherwise.

Anyone watching the Raptors play can tell that FVV is trying to get himself to the all star game. He says he doesn't care about the all star game but his actions say different.

Saying that, I can't really complain much about how he's been playing recently. He's going into hero ball less and he's shooting the lights out. Hopefully he's buying into the team concept more. As I said many times, I want him to take shots he can make but pass it out if there's not a good shot available. No hero ball.

Scottie is our best passer and creator so we should have him running the point more often and play FVV off ball so he can play to his strength, which is being an elite shooter. Nurse seems to agree because it seems like that's the way this team is heading.

[vulture]

Not exactly sure why you comparing Scottie to some of the best players to ever play the game? They are outliers for a reason.

Not exactly sure what you are not understanding.

For those who think Scottie’s development is being hindered by lack of usage. This is not the case.

Players dont need high usage to develop. The guys above that developed into stars above didnt. Players like Pascal Siakam, OG who came into the league raw didnt either.

Why were you comparing him to all time great players though?

Look at Kawhi, he was only taking 6 shots per game. Can we then assume that Scottie will be able to develop into an elite level offensive player if we only allow him to shoot ~6 times per game like Kawhi did?

Those players have all time great level talent that they could rely on no matter what development/usage plan they had. It's way too early to assume Scottie has that luxury.

You added Pascal and OG into your argument after the fact. If you had them in your original argument, I would have agreed with you. At this point, Scottie is closer to Pascal and OG talent level wise than the all time great players you mentioned. He could be a superstar but it's way too early to tell.

Because you don't understand the usage, Scottie is 2nd on the team in touches per game. He's getting a ton of reps with the ball in his hands and he's getting better defensively.
What else do you need?

[gp2015]

Not exactly sure what you are not understanding.

For those who think Scottie’s development is being hindered by lack of usage. This is not the case.

Players dont need high usage to develop. The guys above that developed into stars above didnt. Players like Pascal Siakam, OG who came into the league raw didnt either.

Why were you comparing him to all time great players though?

Look at Kawhi, he was only taking 6 shots per game. Can we then assume that Scottie will be able to develop into an elite level offensive player if we only allow him to shoot ~6 times per game like Kawhi did?

Those players have all time great level talent that they could rely on no matter what development/usage plan they had. It's way too early to assume Scottie has that luxury.

You added Pascal and OG into your argument after the fact. If you had them in your original argument, I would have agreed with you. At this point, Scottie is closer to Pascal and OG talent level wise than the all time great players you mentioned. He could be a superstar but it's way too early to tell.

Because you don't understand the usage, Scottie is 2nd on the team in touches per game. He's getting a ton of reps with the ball in his hands and he's getting better defensively.
What else do you need?

He's developing fine so far and he's ahead of schedule in many instances. I would like to see him take more shots than he has been the last couple of games because his offense is what needs to be developed the most right now. If everyone buys into the team concept and keeps the ball moving, that shouldn't be a problem in the future.

[vulture]

Let's just think about this for a moment: Scottie has the ball in his hands a lot and he guards the best players in the league. We can quibble about a few shots that he's not taking and that's more of a mindset things for him, but the amount of trust they have in this 20 old year is truly remarkable.

That's the biggest development progression to me.

[Dalek]

This ROY thing is so weird. Lol. Who cares?

I'm a fred fanboy and i really dont care much about the allstar game. If he gets it thats fine.

I can't imagine being angry when OG puts up 30 "because now maybe fred wont make the allstar game" lol.

Only on social and realgm do people care about that stuff. It’s a form of validation for them so they can bicker with other fanbases.

I think when Toronto looked hopeless to win games and was at the near bottom of the standings, anyone would have taken ROY plus a high lottery pick as great outcomes for a lost season.

Now that it looks like Pascal is back and FVV is playing at an ALL-NBA second team level, I think people are slow to adjust to the change in outlook.

Originally, I thought Scottie was that perfect hybrid player for Toronto. A high impact role player on a playoff team, and he is that glue guy. I think people just got overly excited when his scoring trended upwards. Over December and January he has been more of that super role player type that he was on Florida State (high assist rate and rebounding% with some timely scoring).

[anotherhomer]

Totally with you.

Scottie in a super role-player Diaw/Draymond type role is good for him right now.

I do hope he develops a mindset to be the go-to alpha type scorer

This ROY thing is so weird. Lol. Who cares?

I'm a fred fanboy and i really dont care much about the allstar game. If he gets it thats fine.

I can't imagine being angry when OG puts up 30 "because now maybe fred wont make the allstar game" lol.

Only on social and realgm do people care about that stuff. It’s a form of validation for them so they can bicker with other fanbases.

I think when Toronto looked hopeless to win games and was at the near bottom of the standings, anyone would have taken ROY plus a high lottery pick as great outcomes for a lost season.

Now that it looks like Pascal is back and FVV is playing at an ALL-NBA second team level, I think people are slow to adjust to the change in outlook.

Originally, I thought Scottie was that perfect hybrid player for Toronto. A high impact role player on a playoff team, and he is that glue guy. I think people just got overly excited when his scoring trended upwards. Over December and January he has been more of that super role player type that he was on Florida State (high assist rate and rebounding% with some timely scoring).

[Boogie!]

I can't believe people are taking these comments as a slight to Scottie. FVV is comparing Scottie's offence/current role to one of the best playmaking bigs in the past two decades at age 20 while also pointing out that he's more athletic.

Our offence looks very good with Scottie (and occasionally Siakam) taking on a more facilitating role and taking advantage of the occasional mismatch, second chance or transition opportunities. Isn't this basically what everyone wanted? The ball in Scottie's hands with FVV (or GTJ spotting up for open threes more often? Or was it really all just about putting up 20 shots and 20 points all along so he can win ROY?

Sent from my Pixel 4 using RealGM mobile app

The fact that he ties more shots to contract does make you wonder if that's something that's on his mind lol. Maybe now it moved from taking more shots for contract to taking more shots to get into all-star game? All this is showing is that there is alot of individual calculation in what FVV does on the court and he's not shy to say it to the media. He has done it numerous times. Let's just say FVV isn't as selfless as some people like to make it seem. He's very much about betting on himself, but he's doing a better job of doing that while being smart about it. He doesn't play anymore like he's the only player who should be touching the ball.

Either way, Van Vleet has been amazing in the last month or so.

Also I am very excited about what Barnes will become and I love the way he's being developed. I actually prefer him playing the Marc Gasol right now so that he can expand everything in his game. His offense seems to come naturally to him so that will explode when the Raptors are ready for it.

Completely agreed with what you said. This is my main problem with FVV. Everything he says in the media has told me that he looks out for himself first and then the team second, although he would like people to think otherwise.

Anyone watching the Raptors play can tell that FVV is trying to get himself to the all star game. He says he doesn't care about the all star game but his actions say different.

Saying that, I can't really complain much about how he's been playing recently. He's going into hero ball less and he's shooting the lights out. Hopefully he's buying into the team concept more. As I said many times, I want him to take shots he can make but pass it out if there's not a good shot available. No hero ball.

Scottie is our best passer and creator so we should have him running the point more often and play FVV off ball so he can play to his strength, which is being an elite shooter. Nurse seems to agree because it seems like that's the way this team is heading.

to be fair, what fvv is saying about shots is absolutely right... the problem with the team and its chemistry issues is that no one is being held accountable with regards to shot selection...

i made a specific comparison to the championship raptors squad in which everyone knew their role and made sacrifices for the better of the team... it was clear they were playing for each other and playing to win vs playing to put up numbers...

this season, it seems everyone is just playing to put up numbers... they can easily pass the ball and make each other better but they choose to look for their own first... and nick nurse doesn't do anything to stop this from happening...

gary trent to me is a number one culprit which is why i keep saying to move him to the bench... when i read fvv's comments trent is the first person that comes to mind here... we need role definition and a pecking order, and the problem is we don't have it figured out and therefore everyone is just taking turns going iso... but to me on this team, trent should be danny green... catch and shoot 3, swing the ball, play defense, take your open shots... but he shouldn't have freedom to just go shot hunting... UNLESS you move him to the bench in a sixth man role...

that being said, lately with a healthy lineup, i've seen a little more deference so hopefully thats a sign of good things to come... fvv is starting to play his ultimate role as a catch and shoot guy... if he can be more like steph curry light with defense, he'll be great for us... siakam and barnes taking turns facilitating, og and trent being the catch and shoot guys, with og being allowed to ocasionally post up... nick nurse utilizing the big lineup with scottie as pg in the second unit. it seems finally we're starting to figure things out a bit more...

butyeah, definitely sacrifices need to be made in terms of shot selection and guys need to play more for each other and trust the pass... that's really the only thing holding this team back... too much iso, taking turns, not enough passing and movement. they have the talent for it, but for whatever reason they haven't played that way consistently which is why i blame nurse.