Knicks Get Reddish per Woj

[2010]

No Ryan Arcidiacono appreciation thread

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2156418

[Clyde_Style]

Do you consider Grimes and IQ to be assets?

Because that Charlotte pick is pretty much on par with them as an asset. IQ's value is probably a bit higher, but still.

They’re worth more since they’ve already proven they are NBA players. All picks have the risk of drafting a player who doesn’t stick

Good point.

The flip side is teams like to make their own draft selections, and the Charlotte pick could end up higher than where Grimes and IQ were selected.

Then on the other hand, there's also the fact that it could potentially turn into 2 second-rounders if it doesn't convey in the next few years.

There's still a more than decent chance it turns into a first.

I just find the idea that that asset has no value to be completely erroneous. Especially when you consider what we were able to turn these late first into, not to mention how any first rounder is an asset that can be used as part of a more significant trade.

It's obviously not on par with your classical unprotected first, but that doesn't mean it has no value.

I doubt anyone means it was a worthless asset regardless of how they worded it. The impression I got is people really mean that relative to the existing stature of our players it is a future variable not predictably more valuable so it is likely a wash or less.

[GONYK]

i don't know what this will become but you guys will always defend everything at first to the death. those homer instincts kick in so strong. trading grimes, who has barely played much, would have been absolutely horrible but a pick that, at worst, would be around where grimes was taken is worthless. it's nonsensical.

How does the fact that many called that pick trash and useless when we first acquired it factor in to this?

Spoiler:

For the record, I don't think the Knicks were ever going to make that pick. We have too many players as it is. It was acquired to be traded.

[Chanel Bomber]

Cam went into the Knicks board grinder as Paul George and came out as Qyntel Woods in less than a day. Hahahaaaaa.

We all know we can’t have nice things. Let’s just hope my man Chanel’s fair and balanced analysis leads to what’s happening with RJ now lol.

I have no need to have a strong opinion about Cam’s outcome as a Knick. I’ll just watch how it plays out.

It was a good deal and adds a potential asset with possible significant upside. And the deal terms sound quite favorable for the Knicks and Knox was extracted, so it feels like a win already.

That’s enough for me for now. People don’t need to take positions now on the success or failure of Cam’s future Knicks exploits, but that’s how some Knicks fans roll.

Whether or not it's a good deal depends entirely on Cam's outcome as a Knick though.

[Ray Williams]

Watch on YouTube

Atlanta Fans trying to block this news

Click watch on Youtube...

Stopped listening when he compared Alec Burks to a Dennis Johnson

[robillionaire]

i don't know what this will become but you guys will always defend everything at first to the death. those homer instincts kick in so strong. trading grimes, who has barely played much, would have been absolutely horrible but a pick that, at worst, would be around where grimes was taken is worthless. it's nonsensical.

the homer instinct isn’t so much downplaying the value of the pick (which everyone was saying was worthless ever since draft day) but it’s that grimes is a bit overhyped, that’s just me tho. He seems like a pretty decent shooter and scrappy but he’s also pretty raw and needs a great deal of work. I dunno. Probably ends up like Dotson or something. Not the end of the world if they move him

[Ray Williams]

i'm definitely going to come back in a month or so and quote the **** out of this thread cause some of ya'll been drinking the bong water tonight

Do whatever you want as long as you bring your old avi back

[Chanel Bomber]

They’re worth more since they’ve already proven they are NBA players. All picks have the risk of drafting a player who doesn’t stick

Good point.

The flip side is teams like to make their own draft selections, and the Charlotte pick could end up higher than where Grimes and IQ were selected.

Then on the other hand, there's also the fact that it could potentially turn into 2 second-rounders if it doesn't convey in the next few years.

There's still a more than decent chance it turns into a first.

I just find the idea that that asset has no value to be completely erroneous. Especially when you consider what we were able to turn these late first into, not to mention how any first rounder is an asset that can be used as part of a more significant trade.

It's obviously not on par with your classical unprotected first, but that doesn't mean it has no value.

I doubt anyone means it was a worthless asset regardless of how they worded it. The impression I got is people really mean that relative to the existing stature of our players it is a future variable not predictably more valuable so it is likely a wash or less.

To say the Knicks got Cam for free implies it the pick was worthless.

I can only understand people's opinions the way they word it. I know you all rely on me to tell you the future and I've accepted this burden, but I can't read people's minds on the internet.

[Clyde_Style]

Watch on YouTube

Atlanta Fans trying to block this news

Click watch on Youtube...

Stopped listening when he compared Alec Burks to a Dennis Johnson

Didn’t listen, but that’s funny. Dennis Johnson was a great floor general and an even better defender. Burks is nothing like him in the least.

[j4remi]

So now late first rounders are worth nothing to the Knicks, because they have so much talent on the roster that they wouldn't be able to accommodate another Grimes/IQ-type pick?

While late firsts can be valuable, it's worth putting into perspective our current roster and draft pick situation. As it stands, this team has 13 players under contract through next season. 6 of those guys are under-25 (I'm also not including Jericho Sims' two-way contract in that). They also have their own first and second in the upcoming draft plus Rokas Jokubaitis looks about ready for a genuine NBA test-run.

That doesn't mean that you should give away picks or that a late-first is worthless. But you're working with limited roster space, limited minutes that are already creating some issues finding time for developing young players, and management clearly wants to continue to field a playoff team.

I think the calculation here is that Cam Reddish has the raw talent to be special. That's not as easy to find in the 20's where a Hornets pick looks likely to convey considering their current standing and strength of schedule going forward (and it can't get much better or it won't convey).

Reddish, despite not living up to his talent yet, is a swing for the fences. It's the type of calculated risk you can afford when you have extra draft picks and a bunch of 20-something kids already in hand. What's the likelihood of finding a star that late? You can get a serviceable role player for sure, especially with the way this scouting department has performed. But this team has plenty of serviceable role players under-rookie or otherwise reasonable contracts already.

[thebuzzardman]

Read on Twitter

If you're a salary sheet geek, this means the Knicks got more than the Hawks.

why even send over solomon? Its not as if he was needed to make salary work

I guess they cleared some money and opened up a roster spot.

Hawks have been pretty on the record they need to make a trade and consolidate talent.

Maybe it's Simmons, who knows.

The Hawks were and are ahead of the Knicks rebuild wise, first by getting a frachise like player in Pubic Lollipop, then they were better about drafting, finally, they went in on FA and trades over the last year.

And it's that last part, where they capped out adding players but it hasn't worked, is driving their trades. Also, the regular fact that teams should be trying to flip a few "good" players into a very good/great player.

So, Cam winds up being a spare part to them, where players like Huerter, Hunter, Bog Bog are filling what roles he could fill, and they'd rather not pay him in a year, plus a pick is a cost free asset to flip.

Knicks decided they didn't mind replacing Knox's salary slot with a project who cost them a no cost asset they could have sent elsewhere.

I think the pick DOES convey this year - the Charlotte pick, and Knicks decided they like a chance at unlocking Reddish over who they might draft around 20th or what trade they could put it into.

Regarding a trade - I prefer the Knicks hold picks for big or bigger trades as well.
Knicks might have felt there is a timing issue where the pick conveyed sooner than later they preferred this move
I get there are other smaller but better scenarios that could come up where the Knicks or us wish they had that pick.

Trade is still decent to me.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[Clyde_Style]

Good point.

The flip side is teams like to make their own draft selections, and the Charlotte pick could end up higher than where Grimes and IQ were selected.

Then on the other hand, there's also the fact that it could potentially turn into 2 second-rounders if it doesn't convey in the next few years.

There's still a more than decent chance it turns into a first.

I just find the idea that that asset has no value to be completely erroneous. Especially when you consider what we were able to turn these late first into, not to mention how any first rounder is an asset that can be used as part of a more significant trade.

It's obviously not on par with your classical unprotected first, but that doesn't mean it has no value.

I doubt anyone means it was a worthless asset regardless of how they worded it. The impression I got is people really mean that relative to the existing stature of our players it is a future variable not predictably more valuable so it is likely a wash or less.

To say the Knicks got Cam for free implies it the pick was worthless.

I can only understand people's opinions the way they word it. I know you all rely on me to tell you the future and I've accepted this burden, but I can't read people's minds on the internet.

Yeah, people say stuff, but I actually think that pick was always going to be trading fodder. No pick is worthless so I agree with you on that.

And thank you for permission to roast you when Cam blows up We count on you to lean in extra hard on every opinion. This Is The Chanel Way

[thebuzzardman]

Cam went into the Knicks board grinder as Paul George and came out as Qyntel Woods in less than a day. Hahahaaaaa.

We all know we can’t have nice things. Let’s just hope my man Chanel’s fair and balanced analysis leads to what’s happening with RJ now lol.

I have no need to have a strong opinion about Cam’s outcome as a Knick. I’ll just watch how it plays out.

It was a good deal and adds a potential asset with possible significant upside. And the deal terms sound quite favorable for the Knicks and Knox was extracted, so it feels like a win already.

That’s enough for me for now. People don’t need to take positions now on the success or failure of Cam’s future Knicks exploits, but that’s how some Knicks fans roll.

Whether or not it's a good deal depends entirely on Cam's outcome as a Knick though.

It was a good TRY turned not good result if Cam doesn't pan.
It wasn't a wildly good 1st round pick, but it's a first rounder nonetheless
Knox they weren't brining back, so he's effectively matching salary.
It could be viewed this was a way to use Knox before losing him for nothing; I can't see Knox of returning anything but a pick in the mid 2nd round, and salary would have to come back.

I'd agree it's dependent on Cam working out in some positive way to be a positive trade and then there are levels of how positive.

Knicks pro player scouting and development staff a bit on the clock now, and some of the Knicks and this FO reputation with it.

[Oscirus]

i don't know what this will become but you guys will always defend everything at first to the death. those homer instincts kick in so strong. trading grimes, who has barely played much, would have been absolutely horrible but a pick that, at worst, would be around where grimes was taken is worthless. it's nonsensical.

Whether or not they give up grimes is irrelevant. Admittedly i value grimes more than I do an unknown lotto protected pick, but thats more personal preference than anything else.

[thebuzzardman]

The Charlotte pick could've been a throw-in that helps a trade for a young player who's actually good, like Haliburton.

Now, I don't know to what extent Haliburton's actually available, and maybe Cam will break his own pattern of efficiency and ball out with the Knicks.

But I'm not a fan of trading assets for mediocre players.

I'd rather have packaged the Charlotte pick, Obi plus the Dallas pick for Hali (not sure the Kings take it but it's just a general idea). Then you get a young player who actually helps your team and who can also be traded at a later stage for a star if need be.

I don't know.

at the same damn time

yeah, now that i slept on it i like it less. i'll give him a chance. we probably won't know if this worked out until sometime next season.

You two never really like anything, so there no real revelation here.

[Chanel Bomber]

So now late first rounders are worth nothing to the Knicks, because they have so much talent on the roster that they wouldn't be able to accommodate another Grimes/IQ-type pick?

While late firsts can be valuable, it's worth putting into perspective our current roster and draft pick situation. As it stands, this team has 13 players under contract through next season. 6 of those guys are under-25 (I'm also not including Jericho Sims' two-way contract in that). They also have their own first and second in the upcoming draft plus Rokas Jokubaitis looks about ready for a genuine NBA test-run.

That doesn't mean that you should give away picks or that a late-first is worthless. But you're working with limited roster space, limited minutes that are already creating some issues finding time for developing young players, and management clearly wants to continue to field a playoff team.

I think the calculation here is that Cam Reddish has the raw talent to be special. That's not as easy to find in the 20's where a Hornets pick looks likely to convey considering their current standing and strength of schedule going forward (and it can't get much better or it won't convey).

Reddish, despite not living up to his talent yet, is a swing for the fences. It's the type of calculated risk you can afford when you have extra draft picks and a bunch of 20-something kids already in hand. What's the likelihood of finding a star that late? You can get a serviceable role player for sure, especially with the way this scouting department has performed. But this team has plenty of serviceable role players under-rookie or otherwise reasonable contracts already.

Honestly I'd rather have used the pick to TRIM the roster for instance, eg to help get rid of Noel or Fournier.

The Knicks have too many players who are mediocre.

I'm not worried about not being able to accommodate a late first round draft pick (which we were able to turn into IQ and Grimes the last two years) because of the pile of mediocrity that we have.

In fact most of them should go.

We'll see if Cam warrants the "swing for the fences", "special" labels. I don't have a definitive opinion about that, but the combination of his inefficiency, questionable motor and desire for more touches doesn't inspire a lot of confidence for me. I can respect anybody for projecting him as a special talent in spite of his numbers though (saying this seriously, not sarcastically), it's a bold take.

[Ray Williams]

first of all a heavily protected late 1st in a week draft while the knicks already loaded with young players would likely have to trade that pick at some point just for roster flexibility isn't really much of an asset

Do you consider Grimes and IQ to be assets?

Because that Charlotte pick is pretty much on par with them as an asset. IQ's value is probably a bit higher, but still.

Is this a joke? Grimes and IQ have shown they can be contributors in this league, they are much higher assets than a late 1st in a weak draft, Grimes in this years draft would probably be ten to 15 range, and IQ based on his play would be top 10

Didn’t we trade back and get those guys? Shows that players from 15 onto the second round are pretty much equal and a crapshoot. We can get the same quality player with the million second round picks we have.

And how many roster spots are available? We still have our own picks, too much stressing over what will likely be 2 second rounders years from now, we can buy those.

[Clyde_Style]

So now late first rounders are worth nothing to the Knicks, because they have so much talent on the roster that they wouldn't be able to accommodate another Grimes/IQ-type pick?

While late firsts can be valuable, it's worth putting into perspective our current roster and draft pick situation. As it stands, this team has 13 players under contract through next season. 6 of those guys are under-25 (I'm also not including Jericho Sims' two-way contract in that). They also have their own first and second in the upcoming draft plus Rokas Jokubaitis looks about ready for a genuine NBA test-run.

That doesn't mean that you should give away picks or that a late-first is worthless. But you're working with limited roster space, limited minutes that are already creating some issues finding time for developing young players, and management clearly wants to continue to field a playoff team.

I think the calculation here is that Cam Reddish has the raw talent to be special. That's not as easy to find in the 20's where a Hornets pick looks likely to convey considering their current standing and strength of schedule going forward (and it can't get much better or it won't convey).

Reddish, despite not living up to his talent yet, is a swing for the fences. It's the type of calculated risk you can afford when you have extra draft picks and a bunch of 20-something kids already in hand. What's the likelihood of finding a star that late? You can get a serviceable role player for sure, especially with the way this scouting department has performed. But this team has plenty of serviceable role players under-rookie or otherwise reasonable contracts already.

Well run franchises pick up players discarded by other teams and turn them into rotation players with some regularity. In the past decades, Miami and SA have done that well. Perhaps GS has become pretty good at doing it too.

[Ray Williams]

Also, the Hawks are betting on addition by subtraction.

They think they can be better without Reddish's minutes. And they probably will be.

That's a red flag.

If that were the case they could have just benched him, nobody had a gun to their head demanding he play if it was hurting them.