Knicks Get Reddish per Woj

[DowNY]

Also, the Hawks are betting on addition by subtraction.

They think they can be better without Reddish's minutes. And they probably will be.

That's a red flag.

i also think this is a setup to them trying to get simmons. and our pick probably goes in that package.

So the Sixers get a bunch of late round 1sts (Hawks pick won’t be lottery and neither is that Hornets pick) John Collins & what else ? Bogs? Lol they’re betting on Sixers selling that low on Simmons?
What’s the difference between Hawks offering those late picks with Collins & Bogs vs us offering our late picks + the Mavs mid pick plus Julius (proven Embiid friend) & Fournier ?

I call cap on Hawks being able to get Simmons. Maybe they go after someone else or maybe Sixers settle but I don’t see a package doing much from their side unless they’re throwing in Hunter (doubtful) & Huerter while taking Tobias back or something.
A lot of these Hawk players lost value compared to last year, which is funny because Cam was one of the few who gained value but they still undersold

[Oscirus]

1) The Front Office is betting on the future. It's not a win-now move.

Um. No it's the exact opposite. If they traded a veteran for Reddish it would no be a win now move. The not win now would have been any of the following

* make the pick
* trade the pick forward near or on draft night to another team looking to move around and pick up additional picks
* package the pick with our pick and the Dallas pick to move up ourselves and get a player we've scouted and like

2) The fact he is the former teammate of RJ can be a sign RJ is near untouchable in the roster construction.

They spent 4 months together doing nothing spectacular 3 years ago. Trading for one of the worst shooting players from that draft who has largely been awful affecting the tradeable status of another player is a reach.

3) We have a logjam in the wings now (RJ, Evan, Burks, IQ, Grimes, and Cam) and no starting PG. We can wait for consolidation trades soon.

Nobody was offering anything near our offer (2 2nds from LA) so I doubt Reddish ends up in a consolidation trade.

The expectation is that we will extend Cam using their bird rights for the 23/24 season.
60/4 for Cam taking advantage of the RFA status

Are you literally a crazy person? This dude has been abyssmal. You are pre-offering him $40 million? What in the **** 9 hells are you talking about? Jesus christ, this is why Knick fans get a reputation for complete delusion about their new players. People cumming in their shorts over 1 legged Kemba was peak. Pre-paying a guy who shot significantly worse than Kevin Knox $40 million is over the cliff and into the river. Holy ****.

2 seconds is kinda near our offer. The late first rounder we sent is so protected that it might turn into 2 seconds if the hornets don’t play well. Plus we also got a 2nd rounder back from them. Our offer might be SLIGHTLY better but hey, that’s why we got the deal and the Lakers didn’t

Knox was leaving for nothing in a few months anyway so not really a factor.

Cam has undoubtedly sucked but there’s still potential for upside as he’s been an above average 3pts shooter this season at 38% which is a tremendous improvement from his first two seasons so he’s at least trending the right way

yep if the pick fails to convey it'll be worse since the hawks gave up a pick as well unless that extra roster spot was worth alot to them.

[DowNY]

The Los Angeles Lakers offered the Atlanta Hawks two second round picks for Cam Reddish before he was traded to the New York Knicks.

Reddish had been available since before the draft with the request of a first round pick.

The Hawks also had conversations with the Indiana Pacers, Cleveland Cavaliers and Detroit Pistons.

The Hawks also sought Quentin Grimes from the Knicks but the deal was eventually Reddish and Solomon Hill for Charlotte's first round pick and Kevin Knox.

Everyone’s beloved Lakers were attempting to acquire Reddish too. Is he still not worth the price of acquisition?

Also, that’s really all the Lakers can offer pick wise. The next 1st they can trade is in 2027 I think. Lol

[thebuzzardman]

at the same damn time

yeah, now that i slept on it i like it less. i'll give him a chance. we probably won't know if this worked out until sometime next season.

You two never really like anything, so there no real revelation here.

they only really got me involved with the pick is worthless talk. i can't abide that. i care more about someone saying that than this trade

I agree. First round picks always have value.

I see it as the Knicks flipped the flexibility and value of a cost free 1st rounder (an asset that a team can get that doesn't impact their cap) and the potential flexibility of it that might entice a team, for a former #1 pick, picked 10 slots higher, who has flashed but also disappointed. So, 4 years vs 1.5 of control, with a roll of the dice Cam turns out great or at the least as good as a guy drafted 20th or he busts.

Even though a pick could be anyone, and that's appealing to teams etc, Cam is not without value still, so he's now a cheap asset for the Knicks, whose value could go up. Or down, granted

Adding- the fact that the pick probably conveys in 2022 means that while it is cost free in a trade right now, it will immediately cost a team X, though at least in a cheap cost controlled way. Maybe this factored into the decision.

[Chanel Bomber]

Also, the Hawks are betting on addition by subtraction.

They think they can be better without Reddish's minutes. And they probably will be.

That's a red flag.

If that were the case they could have just benched him, nobody had a gun to their head demanding he play if it was hurting them.

You can come to this realization and then still hope to get value for him, which the Hawks did.

The Knicks for instance didn't immediately realize just how bad Frank and Knox were. Frank played 21 mpg in year 3.

I assume the Hawks realized that Cam's numbers were in large part empty calories, and that he wasn't helping the team, and that cutting him from the rotation wouldn't have much impact, if not a positive one.

Can't blame them for trying to get value for him instead of outright benching him. That's what the Knicks should've done with Frank-Knox before benching them too (I know Cam has a higher upside than both, which he may or may not reach).

[3toheadmelo]

Also, the Hawks are betting on addition by subtraction.

They think they can be better without Reddish's minutes. And they probably will be.

That's a red flag.

i also think this is a setup to them trying to get simmons. and our pick probably goes in that package.

So the Sixers get a bunch of late round 1sts (Hawks pick won’t be lottery and neither is that Hornets pick) John Collins & what else ? Bogs? Lol they’re betting on Sixers selling that low on Simmons?
What’s the difference between Hawks offering those late picks with Collins & Bogs vs us offering our late picks + the Mavs mid pick plus Julius (proven Embiid friend) & Fournier ?

I call cap on Hawks being able to get Simmons. Maybe they go after someone else or maybe Sixers settle but I don’t see a package doing much from their side unless they’re throwing in Hunter (doubtful) & Huerter while taking Tobias back or something.
A lot of these Hawk players lost value compared to last year, which is funny because Cam was one of the few who gained value but they still undersold

they most likely don't get Simmons. Woj was saying philly was not interested in getting a PF back. they don't want sabonis or collins. at this point, philly wants a lebron type player in return.

[thebuzzardman]

The Los Angeles Lakers offered the Atlanta Hawks two second round picks for Cam Reddish before he was traded to the New York Knicks.

Reddish had been available since before the draft with the request of a first round pick.

The Hawks also had conversations with the Indiana Pacers, Cleveland Cavaliers and Detroit Pistons.

The Hawks also sought Quentin Grimes from the Knicks but the deal was eventually Reddish and Solomon Hill for Charlotte's first round pick and Kevin Knox.

Everyone’s beloved Lakers were attempting to acquire Reddish too. Is he still not worth the price of acquisition?

Also, that’s really all the Lakers can offer pick wise. The next 1st they can trade is in 2027 I think. Lol

Rolling the dice on a future Lakers pick would be fun, because they are going to absolutely suck any minute now. Of course, it's LA, so the team and the league will get a superstar there pronto. But there will be a window of a couple of years where Laker's picks will be nice.

[thebuzzardman]

Also, the Hawks are betting on addition by subtraction.

They think they can be better without Reddish's minutes. And they probably will be.

That's a red flag.

If that were the case they could have just benched him, nobody had a gun to their head demanding he play if it was hurting them.

You can come to this realization and then still hope to get value for him, which the Hawks did.

The Knicks for instance didn't immediately realize just how bad Frank and Knox were. Frank played 21 mpg in year 3.

I assume the Hawks realized that Cam's numbers were in large part empty calories, and that he wasn't helping the team, and that cutting him from the rotation wouldn't have much impact, if not a positive one.

Can't blame them for trying to get value for him instead of outright benching him. That's what the Knicks should've done with Frank-Knox before benching them too (I know Cam has a higher upside than both, which he may or may not reach).

Hopefully you are continuing to work your magic on former Duke players!

[DowNY]

A protected first round pick is not "for free".

Grimes was a late first round draft pick. You're trading away something that's the equivalent of Grimes for an inefficient young player who's soon going to be eligible for an extension, and who wants a bigger role. That's the formula.

If Reddish becomes a positive contributor within the next 18 months, that changes everything. I don't think there's any reason to be confident that he will, but you never know.

So you’re confident in the front office acquiring protected first round picks and selecting underrated players late in the draft but not acquiring actual players already in the league?
Didn’t they flip DSJ for D Rose last year? No faith in the front office doing their homework on this move?
Dudes have like 10 2nd rd picks in the next 2 seasons, you think we’re keeping all of those too? I mean if we are, then wouldn’t you have faith in them selecting the next 10 Mitchell Robinsons or even better, trading up into the late 1st with a bunch of those picks?

Again, the pick was non lottery guaranteed. We’re a team in position to take risks (especially when we still have our own picks and Mavs next year). That flimsy Hornets protected pick isn’t going to make or break a deal for a “star”. Look at what the Nets and Lakers did with acquiring stars. If it’s a deal to get done, it’ll get done and again, it’s not like the Knicks don’t have any assets. All these young players (Quick, Grimes, Cam) probably have value of mid 1sts anyway.

Just saying, to harp on this trade as anything other than a good move until proven otherwise is dramatic and I’m not even a Cam advocate. I was crapping on him for weeks while people here were capping and saying he was better than RJ this season.

I think the Knicks could've made better use of this pick.

Like attach it to one of our bad contracts to regain some of the cap flexibility that they lost last summer. Or insert it as a throw-in in a bigger trade package for a player who's actually good.

I didn't say I was confident in the Knicks making draft picks. I merely said the Knicks have made good use of those late firsts, and that if one considers IQ and Grimes to be assets, then surely a late first round draft pick should be viewed as an asset as well.

I was completely wrong about the Rose trade last year, so there's that. It was a great move for us. It's also the only good move that they have made besides drafting IQ since Leon Rose became POBO (Grimes is TBD for me). All the other significant decisions that they've made have backfired.

So no I see no reason to give this FO the benefit of the doubt and consider this trade a "good trade" until proven otherwise. They don't have the level of credibility as a front office to be given the benefit of the doubt in my opinion.

I hear you. All I’m saying is if the FO were so about attaching 1sts with players for big deals, we would’ve been doing so. We had 2 1sts last year and waited out the whole season just to trade back in the actual draft and get that Hornets pick instead of putting that Mavs pick in a deal during the deadline or something.
Also, who knows what they’ve been doing behind the scenes. Maybe they were making attempts and realized that Hornets pick isn’t enough to help get a good enough player. Again, it’s not like it depletes our assets.
At very worst case, now we have to replace that protected Hornets pick with a protected 2025 1st to a deal? Like cmon. What are we really talking about here, especially if they believe this Cam kid can at the very least be a good role player/bench/6th type player. Lol

[snadler]

I keep bringing this up with Mitch, if they don't have plans to sign him long term, they don't want to do what the hawks just did with Reddish and sell very low on him, his value has never been higher now that's healthy, I'd really like to see them trade Mitch for Brunson and get 30 games to see Brunson as a pg and see if they are willing to extend, while I beleive they already know they aren't keeping Mitch

[Chanel Bomber]

If that were the case they could have just benched him, nobody had a gun to their head demanding he play if it was hurting them.

You can come to this realization and then still hope to get value for him, which the Hawks did.

The Knicks for instance didn't immediately realize just how bad Frank and Knox were. Frank played 21 mpg in year 3.

I assume the Hawks realized that Cam's numbers were in large part empty calories, and that he wasn't helping the team, and that cutting him from the rotation wouldn't have much impact, if not a positive one.

Can't blame them for trying to get value for him instead of outright benching him. That's what the Knicks should've done with Frank-Knox before benching them too (I know Cam has a higher upside than both, which he may or may not reach).

Hopefully you are continuing to work your magic on former Duke players!

You guys start a gofundme and I might consider writing an article.

No article, no good play.

[Clyde_Style]

I'm concerned, but it's also possible the Hawks valued a low first round pick and what can be done with it in trades over Cam.
Or, the Hawks feel they can get another cost controlled player as good as Cam with that pick. Which is concerning.
It's also possible the Hawks have it wrong about Cam and he gets better or the Knicks are able to get him better.
Those are definite "ifs"

Cam wasn't that expensive and if the Hawks felt he had value, you could say they could put Cam into a trade the same way they can put the Charlotte->Knicks 2022 pick into a trade. They may have some tactical/strategic reasons for wanting a pick to move over Cam.

They saw Knox’s 18 point game last month and wanted to unleash his untapped potential, it’s that simple

He'll be raining 3's like orcs raining stones on Minas Tirith

Are we both allowed to use Orc references on the same day?

[Oscirus]

You can come to this realization and then still hope to get value for him, which the Hawks did.

The Knicks for instance didn't immediately realize just how bad Frank and Knox were. Frank played 21 mpg in year 3.

I assume the Hawks realized that Cam's numbers were in large part empty calories, and that he wasn't helping the team, and that cutting him from the rotation wouldn't have much impact, if not a positive one.

Can't blame them for trying to get value for him instead of outright benching him. That's what the Knicks should've done with Frank-Knox before benching them too (I know Cam has a higher upside than both, which he may or may not reach).

Hopefully you are continuing to work your magic on former Duke players!

You guys start a gofundme and I might consider writing an article.

No article, no good play.

How about an article for a song?

[TerrenceClarke]

The Los Angeles Lakers offered the Atlanta Hawks two second round picks for Cam Reddish before he was traded to the New York Knicks.

Reddish had been available since before the draft with the request of a first round pick.

The Hawks also had conversations with the Indiana Pacers, Cleveland Cavaliers and Detroit Pistons.

The Hawks also sought Quentin Grimes from the Knicks but the deal was eventually Reddish and Solomon Hill for Charlotte's first round pick and Kevin Knox.

Everyone’s beloved Lakers were attempting to acquire Reddish too. Is he still not worth the price of acquisition?

Classic Knick fan reaction if he got traded to any of the those teams for a late first rounder or scraps would have been why didnt we jump on that....

Then the value would have been seen....

[Clyde_Style]

You can come to this realization and then still hope to get value for him, which the Hawks did.

The Knicks for instance didn't immediately realize just how bad Frank and Knox were. Frank played 21 mpg in year 3.

I assume the Hawks realized that Cam's numbers were in large part empty calories, and that he wasn't helping the team, and that cutting him from the rotation wouldn't have much impact, if not a positive one.

Can't blame them for trying to get value for him instead of outright benching him. That's what the Knicks should've done with Frank-Knox before benching them too (I know Cam has a higher upside than both, which he may or may not reach).

Hopefully you are continuing to work your magic on former Duke players!

You guys start a gofundme and I might consider writing an article.

No article, no good play.

I’d contribute to a crowd fund to buy you a hoodie with a Remington typewriter mounted on front

[Oscirus]

I keep bringing this up with Mitch, if they don't have plans to sign him long term, they don't want to do what the hawks just did with Reddish and sell very low on him, his value has never been higher now that's healthy, I'd really like to see them trade Mitch for Brunson and get 30 games to see Brunson as a pg and see if they are willing to extend, while I beleive they already know they aren't keeping Mitch

Mitch is the only starting center we have, unless one thinks brunson is a starting level pg, that wouldnt be a particularly good trade

[DOT]

another key is Reddish has the tools to be a good defender. He just never has had the will or want to. Maybe thibs can get that out of him? He has been a pretty trash defender since he's been in the league but has size and quickness to be a good defender. Could be some untapped potential if Thibs really harps that he will only play if he defends at a high level.

Fun fact

In the 323 minutes Cam played with Trae, the Hawks had a DRTG of 117.3, which would be the worst in the league

In the 473 minutes Cam played without Trae, the Hawks had a DRTG of 108.7, which would be about league average

So, for about 60% of his minutes this year, the Hawks have been a league average defense. Still worse than their overall DRTG without Trae, which is 106.2 in 675 minutes (would be top 3 in the league), but that's why I take the defensive metrics with a grain of salt. Trae's just that bad of a defender that he's dragging guys down. Still worth it for the offense though, as they are a much better team with him on than off

He definitely has the tools to be great, but he hasn't been. The big concern I have is, we only have a year and a half before we make a decision on him, and that's really not enough time. Hell, we had 2 years to make a decision on Randle, and even though he played great for a whole year, it's still backfiring on us.

[DowNY]

Can’t imagine worrying too much about this deal. It’s really not like the Hawks are a proven good organization. They sucked their way into Luka and flipped him for Trae….& Knox, their team construction is obviously being exposed & as much as people want to say the Knicks overachieved last season…so did the Hawks. So what are we really talking about here? Maybe the Hawks just don’t know what to do? They signed Bogs and Gallo a year before we signed Fournier & bought back Burks & others. I guess we went a similar route but again, we both hovering around the same seeds right now. It’s not like the Hawks have a track record of being really smart FO wise.

[DOT]

The fact that lots of people are calling this a steal for us is a bit concerning


But the fact that Chanel hates it gives me a lot of hope. Thanks, Chanel.

[mpharris36]

another key is Reddish has the tools to be a good defender. He just never has had the will or want to. Maybe thibs can get that out of him? He has been a pretty trash defender since he's been in the league but has size and quickness to be a good defender. Could be some untapped potential if Thibs really harps that he will only play if he defends at a high level.

Fun fact

In the 323 minutes Cam played with Trae, the Hawks had a DRTG of 117.3, which would be the worst in the league

In the 473 minutes Cam played without Trae, the Hawks had a DRTG of 108.7, which would be about league average

So, for about 60% of his minutes this year, the Hawks have been a league average defense. Still worse than their overall DRTG without Trae, which is 106.2 in 675 minutes (would be top 3 in the league), but that's why I take the defensive metrics with a grain of salt. Trae's just that bad of a defender that he's dragging guys down. Still worth it for the offense though, as they are a much better team with him on than off

He definitely has the tools to be great, but he hasn't been. The big concern I have is, we only have a year and a half before we make a decision on him, and that's really not enough time. Hell, we had 2 years to make a decision on Randle, and even though he played great for a whole year, it's still backfiring on us.

to really get a sense of who Cam is as a player another follow up trade needs to be made. We really need to clear 24-28 minutes from him. If he is playing the Obi type role for a wing with 5 minute stretches it makes no sense.

Even though the 1st rounder is heavily protected we still shouldn't be throwing it away if we don't have a plan to really see what Cam has.