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WargamesX wrote:I think this is actually fair, but I also think Ayton will be a top 5 center for a long time starting very soon. Plus he isn’t a injury risk like Embiid will be as Embiid gets older.
HotelVitale wrote:WargamesX wrote:I think this is actually fair, but I also think Ayton will be a top 5 center for a long time starting very soon. Plus he isn’t a injury risk like Embiid will be as Embiid gets older.
Big difference between 'will probably be a top-5 center' and 'is definitely a perennial MVP candidate.' The former is a nice asset, the latter is something teams will like tank for 4 years and go to battle with the league for a chance to get.
Colbinii wrote:JDLAW wrote:Colbinii wrote:I think this is closer.
Booker, Ayton, 3 Unprotected 1sts and 3 pick swaps for Embiid, Danny Green
Even more ridiculous than OP.
The Suns are trading for a Top 5 player in the league in the midst of his prime. The Suns are giving up a low-end all-star [Booker], an above average starting Center [Ayton] and 3 picks.
DoItALL9 wrote:Do this, Fire Rivers, and then Simmons might actually come back to play
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RedIndian wrote:Cklbmk wrote:thamadkant wrote:Suns will not sabotage their established system to take on Embiid and basically CHANGE up the whole system. And vice versa with 76ers.
OP is nuts.
Suns would do OP in .1 seconds flat.
CP3-Booker-Bridges-Embiid could win a title 4 on 5
You don't turn down a trading your 4th best player for an all time great in his prime for "system" reasons
Nobody wins a title on paper. The Suns system is predicated on two great guards in Book and CP, with rim runners, defenders and shooters to surround them. They went to the Finals last year with that system, and currently have the best record in the NBA. They may or may not win the title, but are certainly one of the top contenders.
They will not break that continuity for a hypothetically greater shot at the title. Embiid is the greater talent by far than Ayton + Cam or whatever, but the idea that he'd just come in, and the Suns would win the title is ludicrous. Suns would need to change their entire style, and that doesn't happen in half a season.
Contenders are built over like 2 years with continuity and chemistry and adding the right role players around your stars. By the time the Suns have that with Embiid, CP would have fallen off a cliff anyway. Not to mention that the Suns would be completely shorn of assets to add new role players.
Of course, Sixers would never entertain this offer in the first place, so this is just a pointless discussion.
Cklbmk wrote:thamadkant wrote:Suns will not sabotage their established system to take on Embiid and basically CHANGE up the whole system. And vice versa with 76ers.
OP is nuts.
Suns would do OP in .1 seconds flat.
CP3-Booker-Bridges-Embiid could win a title 4 on 5
You don't turn down a trading your 4th best player for an all time great in his prime for "system" reasons
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
DirtyDez wrote:Cklbmk wrote:thamadkant wrote:Suns will not sabotage their established system to take on Embiid and basically CHANGE up the whole system. And vice versa with 76ers.
OP is nuts.
Suns would do OP in .1 seconds flat.
CP3-Booker-Bridges-Embiid could win a title 4 on 5
You don't turn down a trading your 4th best player for an all time great in his prime for "system" reasons
Yeah no kidding. Easy yes.
Prokorov wrote:People will say "no way for philly" but it wont age well.
Embiid is turning 28. He has missed significant time every year. Injury/Fatigue have been big issues for him. Playoff success hasnt been there. Building around your center as your 1A offensive options hasnt shown championship success even if the center is an MVP type since the early 2000s.
How much prime does Embiid have left, how available is he during his prime and how quickly can you fit a championship cast around him?
Maybe this deal isnt quite there. I'd want at least 1 lock top 10 picks in the heap. but i think removing emotion selling high on embiid is not a bad idea nor is transitioning your 1A scorer from C to wing.
If the suns make this trade they lose depth/glue guys and in a couple years are looking at a 30+ year old embiid maybe hobbled by injured and a retired chris paul
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Saberestar wrote:Colbinii wrote:JDLAW wrote:
Even more ridiculous than OP.
The Suns are trading for a Top 5 player in the league in the midst of his prime. The Suns are giving up a low-end all-star [Booker], an above average starting Center [Ayton] and 3 picks.
Now Embiid is a Top 5 player? To me he is not even Top 10.
The Suns wouldn't trade any of those packages for Embiid, I have been very surprised by some answers in this thread.
Ayton is a great C, healthier and younger than Embiid and he is gonna be an All Star pretty soon.
Cam Johnson is already one of the best 6th man in the league and he is only in his third season. Amazing 3p shooter and good defender.
These two players (+fillers, probably Saric and Jalen Smith) would be fair value for Embiid (forget picks) BUT I wouldn't do it.
Embiid would change our system and we need Book and CP3 to have the keys on this team. It is working and we are favorites in the West to go again to the Finals this season.
kuclas wrote:Saberestar wrote:Colbinii wrote:
The Suns are trading for a Top 5 player in the league in the midst of his prime. The Suns are giving up a low-end all-star [Booker], an above average starting Center [Ayton] and 3 picks.
Now Embiid is a Top 5 player? To me he is not even Top 10.
The Suns wouldn't trade any of those packages for Embiid, I have been very surprised by some answers in this thread.
Ayton is a great C, healthier and younger than Embiid and he is gonna be an All Star pretty soon.
Cam Johnson is already one of the best 6th man in the league and he is only in his third season. Amazing 3p shooter and good defender.
These two players (+fillers, probably Saric and Jalen Smith) would be fair value for Embiid (forget picks) BUT I wouldn't do it.
Embiid would change our system and we need Book and CP3 to have the keys on this team. It is working and we are favorites in the West to go again to the Finals this season.
Embiid not a top 10 player?? He’s been top 10 essentially since his second season. There is a reason he’s been all nab 2nd team 3 out of last 4 season. Really should be all nba 1st team in 2018 and 2019 except he gets dinged for not playing enough games. Embiid the last two seasons has been playing in the top 4-6 range. Just look at sixers record with embiid and without embiid. This season alone they are 21-9 with embiid. And 3-8 without embiid. And this is all without ben Simmons. And it’s been embiid record since he’s played.
Let’s not kid yourself. Cp3 is the key to the suns team. Than booker. Cp3 takes so so okc team to playoffs. Cp3 is the one who makes the suns go. In the nba. You need the dominant wing/primary ball handler to wing a lot of games. Embiid doesn’t even have that.
Embiid is better on defense. Sure he’s been take more plays off these days. But just his presence on the defensive end changes opponent approach to attacking the rim. And again this is without the best perimeter defender in Simmons all season. Just look at sixers defense with and without embiid the last 6 seasons. He’s better on offense. Ayton is not a great center. He’s an above average center. He would have been maxed out by now especially after last season.
Saberestar wrote:kuclas wrote:Saberestar wrote:Now Embiid is a Top 5 player? To me he is not even Top 10.
The Suns wouldn't trade any of those packages for Embiid, I have been very surprised by some answers in this thread.
Ayton is a great C, healthier and younger than Embiid and he is gonna be an All Star pretty soon.
Cam Johnson is already one of the best 6th man in the league and he is only in his third season. Amazing 3p shooter and good defender.
These two players (+fillers, probably Saric and Jalen Smith) would be fair value for Embiid (forget picks) BUT I wouldn't do it.
Embiid would change our system and we need Book and CP3 to have the keys on this team. It is working and we are favorites in the West to go again to the Finals this season.
Embiid not a top 10 player?? He’s been top 10 essentially since his second season. There is a reason he’s been all nab 2nd team 3 out of last 4 season. Really should be all nba 1st team in 2018 and 2019 except he gets dinged for not playing enough games. Embiid the last two seasons has been playing in the top 4-6 range. Just look at sixers record with embiid and without embiid. This season alone they are 21-9 with embiid. And 3-8 without embiid. And this is all without ben Simmons. And it’s been embiid record since he’s played.
Let’s not kid yourself. Cp3 is the key to the suns team. Than booker. Cp3 takes so so okc team to playoffs. Cp3 is the one who makes the suns go. In the nba. You need the dominant wing/primary ball handler to wing a lot of games. Embiid doesn’t even have that.
Embiid is better on defense. Sure he’s been take more plays off these days. But just his presence on the defensive end changes opponent approach to attacking the rim. And again this is without the best perimeter defender in Simmons all season. Just look at sixers defense with and without embiid the last 6 seasons. He’s better on offense. Ayton is not a great center. He’s an above average center. He would have been maxed out by now especially after last season.
Personally I would prefer at least 10 players over Embiid.
Top 5? Do you think that he is better than any of Giannis, Curry, LeBron, Jokic or Durant? I guarantee you that I don't.
Regarding Ayton...he is around 5 years younger and is super healthy. He is already a borderline All Star and he keeps improving. 17 points and 11 boards per game and he is a great defender.
Personally I am not sure about Embiid being better than Ayton on defense. Ayton can defend pretty well in the perimeter and is more agile and mobile than Embiid. It is close.
Offensively Embiid is better for now, no doubt, but CP3 and Booker's usage wouldn't be the same with Embiid on the Suns in Ayton's place. And the Suns would lose Cam Johnson too. Too many changes when they things are working perfectly for the Suns.
All in all I wouldn't make the trade even without any pick involved but I understand Sixers fans too.
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Texas Chuck wrote:Embiid is an absolutely elite defender. There is zero case Ayton is in his league defensively. What is happening in this thread right now lol? How are people unaware how impactful Embiid is?
kuclas wrote:Saberestar wrote:kuclas wrote:
Embiid not a top 10 player?? He’s been top 10 essentially since his second season. There is a reason he’s been all nab 2nd team 3 out of last 4 season. Really should be all nba 1st team in 2018 and 2019 except he gets dinged for not playing enough games. Embiid the last two seasons has been playing in the top 4-6 range. Just look at sixers record with embiid and without embiid. This season alone they are 21-9 with embiid. And 3-8 without embiid. And this is all without ben Simmons. And it’s been embiid record since he’s played.
Let’s not kid yourself. Cp3 is the key to the suns team. Than booker. Cp3 takes so so okc team to playoffs. Cp3 is the one who makes the suns go. In the nba. You need the dominant wing/primary ball handler to wing a lot of games. Embiid doesn’t even have that.
Embiid is better on defense. Sure he’s been take more plays off these days. But just his presence on the defensive end changes opponent approach to attacking the rim. And again this is without the best perimeter defender in Simmons all season. Just look at sixers defense with and without embiid the last 6 seasons. He’s better on offense. Ayton is not a great center. He’s an above average center. He would have been maxed out by now especially after last season.
Personally I would prefer at least 10 players over Embiid.
Top 5? Do you think that he is better than any of Giannis, Curry, LeBron, Jokic or Durant? I guarantee you that I don't.
Regarding Ayton...he is around 5 years younger and is super healthy. He is already a borderline All Star and he keeps improving. 17 points and 11 boards per game and he is a great defender.
Personally I am not sure about Embiid being better than Ayton on defense. Ayton can defend pretty well in the perimeter and is more agile and mobile than Embiid. It is close.
Offensively Embiid is better for now, no doubt, but CP3 and Booker's usage wouldn't be the same with Embiid on the Suns in Ayton's place. And the Suns would lose Cam Johnson too. Too many changes when they things are working perfectly for the Suns.
All in all I wouldn't make the trade even without any pick involved but I understand Sixers fans too.
It’s not sixers fans. 99% of sane fans would take embiid over ayton the next 5 seasons.
Think about it. Why didn’t the suns max out Ayton?
Almost all of Ayton points are at or near the painted area. He doesn’t create his own offense. And you think it’s an even trade?
Again. It’s his 4th year in the league. He hasn’t shown me anything that warrants game changing superstar status. And that’s why the suns don’t want to max him out. He would essentially be the third option on a max contract with suns and that’s a problem for the suns.
Suns are very fortunate to have cp3 healthy. I don’t wish any players injuries but just would like to see suns play 10-15 games without cp3 and see how they work. It won’t be pretty.
Texas Chuck wrote:Embiid is an absolutely elite defender. There is zero case Ayton is in his league defensively. What is happening in this thread right now lol? How are people unaware how impactful Embiid is?
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
thamadkant wrote:Suns will not sabotage their established system to take on Embiid and basically CHANGE up the whole system. And vice versa with 76ers.
OP is nuts.
jcsunsfan wrote:Neither team would do this.
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