SeniorWalker wrote:I see. So that's why most ATG lists are heavily populated with typical big positions?
"They're all physically developed". I'm sorry, what do you mean here? Like, they're all adult human beings past their growth spurts? Because Giannis started playing basketball much later in life, and only recently has seen greater strides in the purely skill aspects of his game. Even today, he's not a finished product. Also, he grew two inches after he came into the NBA. Everything with him is being done on the fly.
This is not what is happening with Luka. He being fat and lazy in the off-season affects his play, but not to the degree that it would completely change the nature of his game, or develop facets that he had no prior potential for. Luka will never be much more than he is now, he does not have the talent for it.
Jokic is in a similar boat athletically, but the difference is he is already a far superior player to Luka. He is better is basically every way offensively, most particularly in his playmaking and passing (his intuition, court awareness and timing are things that can't be taught) and because he is 7ft and has good instincts is still a positive defender.
....meanwhile you came in this thread trying to treat me like a child, resting your entire argument on Luka missing his summer pilates class, that being the difference between him and players who just do a lot more on the court and don't need to take a million shots and still have superior efficiency and effectiveness at a higher level of production.
I'll use childish words so you can better understand: getcho fanboy salty-teared rants outta here boiiiiii.
Lol sorry, the last one I couldn't resist.
ATG lists are filled with centers because those guys are all great 2-way players who are ATG defenders. There isn't a single center in the top 100 all time who's even close to being as bad of a defender as Jokic.
They are all physically developed as in they are 26-27 and aren't going to suddenly have another growth spurt. They have played in the league long enough to have settled into their game and any improvements from here would only be in skill development in the offseason, not in learning how to make the most of what they already have.
If Jokic is such a good defender, then why are the Nuggets a middle of the road defensive team with mostly great defensive players around him? Meanwhile, fat Luka and the Mavs are the #5 best defense in the league. And fat Luka's Mavs also have a better overall record than Jokic's Nugs this season. Porzingis is actually a better defender than Jokic and that's kinda sad.
Can you name 3 starting centers who are worse defensively than Jokic? Spoiler, you can't, because there aren't. His DBPM stats only tell a small fraction of the story on defense. It's a very misleading stat and I don't think most people here have a clue what it means. I think the only center you can make a case that is worse than Jokic on defense is KAT and that' because KAT is a pretty stupid player and just makes way too many mental mistakes.
EVERY SINGLE good defense either has a great rim protector to defend the paint, or plays 5 switchable guys to better defend the perimeter. The Nuggets can't do either of those, and will NEVER be a great defensive team with Jokic.
Also Luka is every bit as good of a playmaker as Jokic. Luka has a great handle and extremely good passing accuracy. He has more assists and a better assist rate than Jokic, despite playing with chumps offensively. Yes Jokic's 2 best teammates are out this year, but last years healthy Nugs are FAR more talented than the Mavs. Murray and MPJ are better than any of Luka's teammates. You are deluding yourself thinking Jokic is the best passer in the league. Standing in the low/high post and hitting cutters is far easier to do than pass off the dribble in traffic.
Also Luka is one of the few players who's effectiveness has actually gone UP in the playoffs where the competition is more fierce and teams can gameplan against you better. Jokic's percentages drop in the playoffs (by a small bit only, but still a drop is a drop). Luka was in the MVP talks in his 2nd year in the league. He hasn't hit his prime yet, where as Jokic and Giannis have.
And coming in out of shape in 1 season, where he played in the olympics in the offseason is not a crime nor is it an indication he's a lazy person. He admitted he shouldn't have taken a month off and I doubt he'll do it again. If the Mavs find a way to acquire talent or Luka leaves for a better team, Luka could have a huge surge in efficiency on his production. Currently teams can focus him with impunity because his teammates couldn't iso score to save their lives. He has to jack so many 3's because he's doubled or tripled as soon as he takes one step towards the basket. Jokic's one advantage over Luka is that he can rely on his post game, where it is harder to stop a score with extra defenders without fouling. If Porzingis wasn't an absolute trashcan of a post player this wouldn't be a problem for Luka.
I'll stop treating you like a child when you actually make a single good argument. K?