If It Is To Be Said. So It Be. So It Is. The First Deadline Trade Thread.

[Half-Full]

It's tough to build up the trade value of the young players when (1) they don't play, and (2) when they do play they stand around watching Tatum and Brown dribble.

If you want to tank for the lottery, let Tatum play point guard as he did against Portland. The team scored zero baskets in seven minutes with him running the offense. No other personnel changes would be required.

Excellent points. One of the objectives when the season started was to develop the young players. While Grant and Romeo have gotten minutes (23 and 18 respectively), Pritchard and Nesmith get significantly less (13 and 10). Too, Romeo has had many games where he got very limited minutes, and even some DNPs. Generally, when the young players are on the court, they might as well be in the stands watching the Jays play. Lack of regular playing time hampers development. Tatum and Brown dominating the ball inhibits the play of the young guys. Someone tell Ime.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Speaking of the Bucks, what's the deal with Brook Lopez ? Will he play again this year ? If he's not going to be healthy for the playoffs would the Bucks entertain a deal around Lopez/DiVincenzo for Horford (Celtics would need to take back some additional salary or a third team would need to get involved but that would be the main pieces) ? The Bucks get some help in the middle, Horford goes to a contender and reunites with Budenholzer. The Celtics get to buy low on DiVincenzo and get off Horford salary next year.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't know what spurious means since English isn't my first language, but if it has anything to do with the Spurs, I concur with Curm.

spu·ri·ous
adjective
not being what it purports to be; false or fake.
"separating authentic and spurious claims"

[Curmudgeon]

Tatum and Brown dominating the ball inhibits the play of the young guys. Someone tell Ime.

Tatum and Brown run this team, not Ime. Ime said publicly at the beginning of the year that the "your turn my turn" offense had to go and he chided Brad that the team was 28th in assists. Remember? Don't you think they coaches say the same thing every day?

But nothing has changed, although to Tatum and Brown's credit (with a little help from Schroder) they have improved to 26th in assists.

[Half-Full]

Tatum and Brown dominating the ball inhibits the play of the young guys. Someone tell Ime.

Tatum and Brown run this team, not Ime. Ime said publicly at the beginning of the year that the "your turn my turn" offense had to go and he chided Brad that the team was 28th in assists. Remember? Don't you think they coaches say the same thing every day?

But nothing has changed, although to Tatum and Brown's credit (with a little help from Schroder) they have improved to 26th in assists.

Hard to argue with that. There have been a few games where the Jays were moving the ball, and getting their teammates involved. Those were fun games, and resulted in wins. Yet they always seem to revert to their selfish games, and Ime does not rein them in. Thus far, Ime has been a real disappointment. Someone should make Ime watch a loop of that video where he chided Brad about the team's assists. At this point, I am not holding out any hope that Ime will grow a pair, and I don't expect that he will be fired, but that's what needs to happen. Lip service ain't cutting it.

[darylbe]

I feel like from previous POBO, Celtics tried to force some veteran all star to mesh with 2 young kids and try and compete for a ring. It's been a disaster every year after JT rookie season. We've never built on that.

This team goes as far as the Jay's take us. They have a lot to learn and grow. Neither is clutch. Neither than take the ball and score when needed. Game winning buzzer beater? Good f-ing luck. It's not a knock. They are only 25 and 23. I'm confident it will come. Tatum has a lot of maturing to do.

Rather than forcing yet another veteran older all star in, the direction should be adding young talented players to grow and develop as the Jays grow and develop. This should have been going on for the past 3 years. Yet here we are. Still Jerking it with hopes of Langford becoming something, with a pile of tpe's from huge contracts that didn't mesh, that will be used on some player that probably won't mesh either.

[Curmudgeon]

Someone should make Ime watch a loop of that video where he chided Brad about the team's assists. At this point, I am not holding out any hope that Ime will grow a pair, and I don't expect that he will be fired, but that's what needs to happen. Lip service ain't cutting it.

So Stevens should fire Ime for not being able to control Tatum and Brown after Brad couldn't control them himself and left coaching? So, who will you bring in who can control them? If you cut their minutes for sloppy play they will ask to be traded. It's a player's league.

Everyone in the organization knows what the problem is-- Stevens especially-- and Ime is not it. But no one has the balls to do anything about it.

[zoyathedestroya]

If rumors were true, the plan was AD + Kyrie + Tatum and whoever's left. With what we know now, that might have turned out to be a disaster too lol.

[Curmudgeon]

The only one who can control Tatum and Brown a little teensy bit is Marcus Smart (who, you may remember, called them out earlier this year), but Smart is probably gone next week. Then the fun will really begin.

[Shak_Celts]

I feel like from previous POBO, Celtics tried to force some veteran all star to mesh with 2 young kids and try and compete for a ring. It's been a disaster every year after JT rookie season. We've never built on that.

This team goes as far as the Jay's take us. They have a lot to learn and grow. Neither is clutch. Neither than take the ball and score when needed. Game winning buzzer beater? Good f-ing luck. It's not a knock. They are only 25 and 23. I'm confident it will come. Tatum has a lot of maturing to do.

Rather than forcing yet another veteran older all star in, the direction should be adding young talented players to grow and develop as the Jays grow and develop. This should have been going on for the past 3 years. Yet here we are. Still Jerking it with hopes of Langford becoming something, with a pile of tpe's from huge contracts that didn't mesh, that will be used on some player that probably won't mesh either.

Tatum may have more buzzer beaters and go ahead/game winners in his career than probably most of NBA and I don't care what level player you're talking. I don't know anything about stats, but IIRC he was more clutch than anybody last season. Brown used to be clutch too, IIRC, but not off too many game winners because Tat was taking and making them. I'm not going to look for proof, but I try to pay attention when people do the work for me.

We have struggled this season, but come on now!

[Half-Full]

Someone should make Ime watch a loop of that video where he chided Brad about the team's assists. At this point, I am not holding out any hope that Ime will grow a pair, and I don't expect that he will be fired, but that's what needs to happen. Lip service ain't cutting it.

So Stevens should fire Ime for not being able to control Tatum and Brown after Brad couldn't control them himself and left coaching? So, who will you bring in who can control them? If you cut their minutes for sloppy play they will ask to be traded. It's a player's league.

Everyone in the organization knows what the problem is-- Stevens especially-- and Ime is not it. But no one has the balls to do anything about it.

It is a dilemma for management, that's for sure. Both the Jays said they wanted a coach who would hold them to account. They were pleased with the selection of Ime, and they seemingly had input during the selection process. Ime has not been able to get through to the Jays, and why is that? Someone should ask the Jays.

[zoyathedestroya]

I feel like from previous POBO, Celtics tried to force some veteran all star to mesh with 2 young kids and try and compete for a ring. It's been a disaster every year after JT rookie season. We've never built on that.

This team goes as far as the Jay's take us. They have a lot to learn and grow. Neither is clutch. Neither than take the ball and score when needed. Game winning buzzer beater? Good f-ing luck. It's not a knock. They are only 25 and 23. I'm confident it will come. Tatum has a lot of maturing to do.

Rather than forcing yet another veteran older all star in, the direction should be adding young talented players to grow and develop as the Jays grow and develop. This should have been going on for the past 3 years. Yet here we are. Still Jerking it with hopes of Langford becoming something, with a pile of tpe's from huge contracts that didn't mesh, that will be used on some player that probably won't mesh either.

Tatum may have more buzzer beaters and go ahead/game winners in his career than probably most of NBA and I don't care what level player you're talking. I don't know anything about stats, but IIRC he was more clutch than anybody last season. Brown used to be clutch too, IIRC, but not off too many game winners because Tat was taking and making them. I'm not going to look for proof, but I try to pay attention when people do the work for me.

We have struggled this season, but come on now!

This is too narrow of a definition, but Tatum has never had a buzzer beater in his career. Side note: I counted 5 buzzer-beaters by Cs in Stevens era, six against them same span.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/buzzer-beaters.html

I'm sure he's had a few go-ahead/game-tying baskets in the final two minutes of a game. Dunno where to look for that (probably a site behind a paywall).

[Curmudgeon]

LOL, Brown hasn't had any either. I love Basketball Reference.

[snowman]

Our Core (as I see it)
I do believe that both Tatum and Brown want to win every game. Do they put in a winning effort every single game? No. I believe their bodies get worn out. You can see that due to shots hitting the front end of the rim, or airballing. And when only one of them is on the court, and the other sits, they get doubled, because the opposing team does not respect or fear whomever Tatum and Brown might be passing to, unless it's Timelord. That tells me the supporting cast needs to be upgraded. Of course, it would be hard to be done in one trade deadline, but not impossible. But however it is done, the Celts need a consistent 3rd scorer. But we probably will have to wait until this summer to get one. IMO, I don't think it is smart business to split up Tatum, Brown and Timelord.

Supporting cast (as I see it)
(Young guys) Langford, G. Will, Pritchard, Nesmith
I feel that we shouldn't give up on our 4 young guys just yet. Langford and G.Will are making improvements during their 3rd year, that are needed as steppingstones to be good role players. Same with Pritchard and Nesmith. I remember so many posters wanting to move on from Langford and G. Will, me being one of them, because they were in their 2nd year slump. Well, Pritchard and Nesmith are there now, and will work their way out of it.

(Vets) Smart, Schroder, Richardson, Horford, Kanter
I feel that Smart may need to be moved, but not at this trade deadline, but maybe this summer. It wouldn't look great to move him during the season that he signs his extension. Off season is another story. Same with Horford and Richardson. I think Horford knows he is going to get traded or released this summer because of his contract. Richardson is signed for next season and is playing really good now. He may have found his game since coming here. Unless a godfather deal comes up that is too good to pass up, then just play out the year with them and make some decisions on them this summer. We all know that Schroder is not going to get resigned, so we need to move him along now to Chicago (who has lost both point guards to injury) or to someone pushing for the title, like Phoenix or Dallas. Use him to pick up someone on a contract that may help next season. I don't want to see Kanter (refuse to call him Freedom until he stops giving opposing centers freedom at the rim) on the floor for us again. I would rather run with Bruno. Move Kanter and Schroder this trade deadline for whatever you can get. Schroder for Tony Bradley from Chicago, Jalen Smith from Phoenix, or Rudy Gay from Utah, or something along these lines. Kanter to anyone in the playoff hunt looking for a big for depth.

(Deep bench) Bol Bol, Dozier, Fernando
All will be FAs at seasons end. Move Dozier, along with cash to get us under the lux tax. Let Bol Bol and Fernando walk at end of season.

I really don't think Brad will do much at this point except, possibly, the underlined above, until the off season when hopefully the repeater tax has been reset and he is free to make some major moves.

[zoyathedestroya]

LOL, Brown hasn't had any either. I love Basketball Reference.

Brad Stevens has five.

[fallguy]

Cs can replace their entire non-Jays crew with whoever's available in the trade market and it likely will still not matter (if goal is a title). I personally don't go, "I wish the Cs had Gary Payton II and Bjelica instead of Richardson and Grant." Dubs win with the guys they have because of the system they run which is mostly driven by what their two top guys (Curry, Draymond) are capable of and not because they have Jordan Poole.

Yeah, this is why despite all the talk about 'everybody wants two-way wings' I'm interested in selling high on Jaylen. I don't think they complement each other as well as you need, especially given Jaylen will be due for a massive extension soon-ish.

[Bohemian]

The only one who can control Tatum and Brown a little teensy bit is Marcus Smart (who, you may remember, called them out earlier this year), but Smart is probably gone next week. Then the fun will really begin.

Actually, tonight might be his last game as a Celtic, right?

[darylbe]

This is too narrow of a definition, but Tatum has never had a buzzer beater in his career. Side note: I counted 5 buzzer-beaters by Cs in Stevens era, six against them same span.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/buzzer-beaters.html

I'm sure he's had a few go-ahead/game-tying baskets in the final two minutes of a game. Dunno where to look for that (probably a site behind a paywall).

I'll look at the stats, and "he's never had a buzzer beater" isn't a great way to judge a player, so my bad on that lol.

My eye test. He's "better" in the 4th. Does that mean he's clutch? My thought is he typically has his head up his ass in the first half, so yea, he's better late. Then it's a rush to make sure he leads in points. Is that considered clutch or inconsistent?

He can't be all that clutch if we've lost a pathetic number of close games/blown leads.

All that being said, am I being too tough on him, maybe. Is he immature? Certainly. Do I think we should bring in another (the 5th) 30 year old to try and create some championship team? Hell no.

[zoyathedestroya]

This is too narrow of a definition, but Tatum has never had a buzzer beater in his career. Side note: I counted 5 buzzer-beaters by Cs in Stevens era, six against them same span.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/buzzer-beaters.html

I'm sure he's had a few go-ahead/game-tying baskets in the final two minutes of a game. Dunno where to look for that (probably a site behind a paywall).

I'll look at the stats, and "he's never had a buzzer beater" isn't a great way to judge a player, so my bad on that lol.

My eye test. He's "better" in the 4th. Does that mean he's clutch? My thought is he typically has his head up his ass in the first half, so yea, he's better late. Then it's a rush to make sure he leads in points. Is that considered clutch or inconsistent?

He can't be all that clutch if we've lost a pathetic number of close games/blown leads.

All that being said, am I being too tough on him, maybe. Is he immature? Certainly. Do I think we should bring in another (the 5th) 30 year old to try and create some championship team? Hell no.

I don't think bringing in a 30-yr old is the issue. The "30-yr olds" we brought in were never good enough to begin with. Give me Lebron, Curry, or KD right now and we might just win a title hehe.

[darylbe]

Maybe I'm feeling it more bc we suffered st the hands of rj and Luka this season and there was also that bam "block heard 'round the world.".

Shoot.