Jalyen Brown vs Pascal Siakam

[Tacoma]

plenty of G.M.s would trade Brown and his potentially degenerative knees and injury history for Barnes who is putting up 15-8-4 with great defense at 20 y/o. Jaylen was putting up 6-3-1 at 20 y/o. Barnes is legit and likely to be more impactful than stats will show due to his defense and playmaking than the one-dimensional Jaylen. And after you factor in salary, LOTS of teams would take Barnes if they have a longer timeline in mind.

Uh. no they wouldn't.

I honestly think they would. Rookie contract controllability, Barnes' potential, 5 years younger.

I guess it depends where the team is in their win cycle.

Whether Boston would is irrelevant because Toronto definitely would not. Barnes has oodles of potential and before he reaches Jaylen's age in about 5 years time, he'll be better than both Jaylen and Siakam.

[Duffman100]

Uh. no they wouldn't.

I honestly think they would. Rookie contract controllability, Barnes' potential, 5 years younger.

I guess it depends where the team is in their win cycle.

Whether Boston would is irrelevant because Toronto definitely would not. Barnes has oodles of potential and before he reaches Jaylen's age in about 5 years time, he'll be better than both Jaylen and Siakam.

Oh sure, of course Toronto wouldn't.

It seems like the conversation was limited hypothetically "would boston do it"?

[everdiso]

Bizarre how arrogant Celtics fans are even though every single year their elite contending Celtics are never better than the crappy raps.

You figure they'd learn one of these years.

[BrianFitz]

You forgot Jaylen being a far better defender. Brown destroyed him in their playoff matchup. It's close, but Jaylen's 2 years younger and the better 2 way player. You put Brown on the Raptors and he's a top ten scorer eg 27-30 ppg.

Brown's also missed 40%+ of the season with covid and then a hamstring issue.
Tatum+Brown are currently the best scoring duo in the NBA but they've played only 50% of the schedule together due to both having covid and injuries earlier this year.
They've also won 8 of their last 10.

You put brown on the raptors and nobody touches the ball. Siakam’s playmaking has been on another level this year.

If brown and Tatum are so good then why do they always underperform as a team? They’ve practically got the same record as a raptors team who have no bench and only have about 5 or 6 legit nba players. They get theirs but they impact the entire team negatively with their selfishness.

Hot take: Siakam is a better player than Tatum or Brown. Sure, he does not have as sexy of a game as either of them, but he is just better in most aspects of basketball. 3 point shooting is really the only argument you would have for the Celtics over Siakam.

You meant to say "dumb take". A hot take at lease has some basis in reality ... your take does not.

[BrianFitz]

Watch on YouTube

What is the point of posting a video clip 1.5 years ago? Are they both the exact same players they were before and haven't developed at all since then?

A lot of players could have stopped Pascal during that time. He could barely dribble the ball without turning it over.

Just stop ... you guys were hyping Pascal back then as well.

[djsunyc]

i think the discussion should be more pascal/tatum than pascal/brown.

[gp2015]

Watch on YouTube

What is the point of posting a video clip 1.5 years ago? Are they both the exact same players they were before and haven't developed at all since then?

A lot of players could have stopped Pascal during that time. He could barely dribble the ball without turning it over.

Just stop ... you guys were hyping Pascal back then as well.

You stop. In reality, we were hyping him up before the all star break when he was playing at all star level and then his play went to s*** after the all star break and especially after the bubble began.

It doesn't matter anyways. The discussion is about who is the better player now, not who was better 1.5 years ago.

[kleatius_01]

Seems like a wash right now. Siakam really struggled last year but seems back on track.

Both could be good second options on a championship team, so depends on the fit with the best player. E.g. I'd go with Siakam on the Warriors right now, but would take Brown on the Nuggets.

As a Raptors fan I'd take Siakam with the current roster since we need more playmaking.

[Tor_Raps]

celtics should probably trade brown to the hawks for collins and okungwu.

Collins, Bogdanovic and a 1st round pick for Brown and Richardson makes more sense imo since the Celtics already have Robert Williams at Center.

[Morghulus]

Pascal’s ‘AIYYEEEA’ on every drive to the net makes me laugh, so he gets my vote. lol

[phanman]

The only thing Brown does better is shooting 3s.

An area in which Brown has actually regressed 3.6% this season from the season prior, on the same amount of volume. I disagree though, Brown is not only a better shooter, but a better scorer on both volume and efficiency.

That said, Pascal is currently playing the best basketball of his career on both sides of the floor since the start of 2022. In the 16 games from January 1st he is up to: 22.6pts, 8.6reb, 64ast, 2stl, 0.8blk on 55.2%TS including 41.5% from deep.

With the built in rivalry with both franchises, both fan bases are obviously going to bat for their guy and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Both are incredibly talented and you'd be lying to yourself if you didn't want the other on your squad.

Using that 2020 season series as an end all/be-all barometer for whose better is just lazy. Pascal was not himself once the NBA resumed and if just looked at his body language and play you could clearly tell that something was going on mentally. Then you throw in that fact that it was his first season as the #1 option on top of the suffocating defense that was played against him and you've got a recipe for disastrous showing.

[Duffman100]

What is the point of posting a video clip 1.5 years ago? Are they both the exact same players they were before and haven't developed at all since then?

A lot of players could have stopped Pascal during that time. He could barely dribble the ball without turning it over.

Just stop ... you guys were hyping Pascal back then as well.

You stop. In reality, we were hyping him up before the all star break when he was playing at all star level and then his play went to s*** after the all star break and especially after the bubble began.

It doesn't matter anyways. The discussion is about who is the better player now, not who was better 1.5 years ago.

The weird thing with Pascal was how his close shooting had randomly plummeted. But has recovered.

2018-19.
Less than 5ft, 67%,
5-9ft - 40%

2019-20
Less than 5ft, 61%,
5-9ft - 36.7%

2020-21
Less than 5ft, 60%,
5-9ft - 40%

2021-22
Less than 5ft, 66%
5-9ft - 44.5%

For a player like Pascal, a drop of 6-7% in less than 5FT is going to cripple his efficiency. He's rebounded back to 2018-19 numbers and even increased his 5-9ft %s.

Like I said back the, and the eye test proved it, he was missing a lot of open looks he had hit in the past.

[YogurtProducer]

Just stop ... you guys were hyping Pascal back then as well.

You stop. In reality, we were hyping him up before the all star break when he was playing at all star level and then his play went to s*** after the all star break and especially after the bubble began.

It doesn't matter anyways. The discussion is about who is the better player now, not who was better 1.5 years ago.

The weird thing with Pascal was how his close shooting had randomly plummeted. But has recovered.

2018-19.
Less than 5ft, 67%,
5-9ft - 40%

2019-20
Less than 5ft, 61%,
5-9ft - 36.7%

2020-21
Less than 5ft, 60%,
5-9ft - 40%

2021-22
Less than 5ft, 66%
5-9ft - 44.5%

For a player like Pascal, a drop of 6-7% in less than 5FT is going to cripple his efficiency. He's rebounded back to 2018-19 numbers and even increased his 5-9ft %s.

Like I said back the, and the eye test proved it, he was missing a lot of open looks he had hit in the past.

I think he is finally healthy for the first since the pandemic began.

Watching him beat teams who decide to double him is an amazing development. He is good enough in single coverage that teams have to send a 2nd defender his way, and that is opening up the floor for GTJ/FVV to just bomb from 3. He is incredibly deadly when he is surrounded by shooters. The Raps have been a completely different team since we kind of shifted to a Pascal lead half court offense.

Since the new yearm FVV is shooting 12.8 3's a game at 39% and GTJ is firing 9.8 3's a game at 42%. OG is shooting 7.8 at only 33%, but I expected that will rise. Siakam is averaging 6.4apg in this time. Barnes developing a 3 point stroke and having Siakam with a 4-out lineup will be very, very, very hard to defend.

Again, Siakam and Tatum is a better discussion nhan Siakam and Brown.

[anotherhomer]

Yes, i started a poll in the Toronto board about trading Barnes for Jaylen, and got slaughtered for it.

90% plus was against a Barnes for Jaylen Brown trade.
Though they were more ammendable, to more of a Jaylen Brown for Pascal trade.

that said...i'm not quite sure a trade to be had...

i doubt Toronto and Boston are good trading partners let alone division rivals

I honestly think they would. Rookie contract controllability, Barnes' potential, 5 years younger.

I guess it depends where the team is in their win cycle.

Whether Boston would is irrelevant because Toronto definitely would not. Barnes has oodles of potential and before he reaches Jaylen's age in about 5 years time, he'll be better than both Jaylen and Siakam.

Oh sure, of course Toronto wouldn't.

It seems like the conversation was limited hypothetically "would boston do it"?

[Stan34]

People are trying to convince themself that siakam is better than Jaylen. Delusional. Siakam got lucky to play ferocious D on a team with one of the most dominant player in recent years. Kawhi was a beast in Toronto. Look at carrier PO stats between JB and Siakam. Different level players.
Siakam shoot 28% from three when they won a title.
JB always had better PO numbers compared to RS numbers. Siakam is the opposite

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[everdiso]

The only thing Brown does better is shooting 3s.

With the built in rivalry with both franchises, both fan bases are obviously going to bat for their guy and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Both are incredibly talented and you'd be lying to yourself if you didn't want the other on your squad.

.

For the record in terms of the "rivalry"...on one side its Boston fans saying their team and players are far better every year and on the other side it's raps fans saying wait a sec they're close.

And reality consistently ends up agreeing with only one of those sides.

[KingDavid]

I'm sending this to the Player Comparison board.

[bisme37]

Bizarre how arrogant Celtics fans are even though every single year their elite contending Celtics are never better than the crappy raps.

You figure they'd learn one of these years.

I was thinking the best evidence for how Pascal is better than Jaylen actually came from Celtics fan The Comedian. I came into the thread saying it was a toss up but the stats he presented changed my mind and I said so. So I think many of us have been cool here and I don't understand insulting every fan of a team just because one guy is annoying you or whatever.

[srhcan]

Bizarre how arrogant Celtics fans are even though every single year their elite contending Celtics are never better than the crappy raps.

You figure they'd learn one of these years.

I was thinking the best evidence for how Pascal is better than Jaylen actually came from Celtics fan The Comedian. I came into the thread saying it was a toss up but the stats he presented changed my mind and I said so. So I think many of us have been cool here and I don't understand insulting every fan of a team just because one guy is annoying you or whatever.

The Comedian opened my eyes. I knew Siakam is better than Brown stats wise but advanced stats showed me the gulf is more than I imagined.

[nikster]

Their isn't a single GM in the NBA that would trade Brown or Tatum for anyone on the raptors roster.
Van fleet's having an amazing year but his age and size mean Brown is far more valuable in the long term. Anyway, you're trolling at this point.

I wouldn't trade Brown for a worse player. And if these two were traded for one another, a FRP is absolutely off the table unless someone is taking an additional year of dead money.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

LOL So you guys dont believe in stats and advanced stats. Good to know.

Most advanced stats are calculations based on correlation rather than actual measurements. But that's a topic for another day.

We all have seen Siakam have playoff troubles in multiple series. Man is not good at creating a shot. Jaylen has developed much more offensive tools, especially in the two seasons when these two teams have squared off, to not be the liability Siakam has been. The Raptors offense stagnated, and still does, against tighter defenses. It's why Kawhi was essential to their championship.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

The Celtics offense has been stagnating even this regular season... And Brown had like 70% of his field goals assisted in his last playoffs in 2020