Woj: RoCo and Powell traded to Clippers for Bledsoe, Winslow, Johnson and 2nd

[Jsun947]

can someone tell me how this helps us be able to trade at the deadline. Cronin is making it sound like this is for another trade to happen in 5 days

This isn't tied to the deadline but the one benefit to the Bledsoe contract is that its only guaranteed for $3.9 mil in 22/23 if declined within 4 days of free agency but you can trade it as a 19.4 million dollar contract after the season ends. This would be a huge advantage in a trade for a player like Turner or Grant as matching salary around draft time.

I think the odds of Winslow or Johnson being particularly valued by a third team as meaningful trade assets is little to none unless one of the teams we've been talking to has interest in one of them.

[soobias]

ok after i calmed down and thought deeper into the trade and any future deals i came up with this................


this is one of the dumbest stu.pid mf'n trades i ever seen and i think it shows the rest of the league that we're willing to just give away everything.
i think most will be gone by trade deadline. and if dame is gone we will be crap for a while unless we get a leader to replace him.
simons is not the answer, he's a 6th man at best. a small sg, he's not bad but look at all the teams we use to be ahead of. it's a long road back and even longer if not done right.
if billups wants young raw athletic guys the nba is filled with them.
you tell tell by how many post i've done that i really checked out in 2016 lol, but this is bad, i dont think that they have a real game plan in place except cutting cost.
like i said in another post a lil while back, billups (or any coach) cant put his fingerprints on this team with all the vets that are stuck in their ways.
so i suspect most will go to give billups a chance kinda build from scratch to see what he can do.
but it aint gonna be pretty

[red_power]

Still can't believe how bad this deal is.

It's so difficult to yield a worse value for a dollar, even when you are held at the gunpoint.

[Jsun947]

I’ll give it my best shot.

Nurkic for Oubre

Turner & Love to Por
CJ & Winslow to Clev
Nance, Sexton, Johnson to Indy

Oubre & Turner are young enough to keep during a retool, skill sets work with Dame, are tradable & won’t drop in value if you blow it up completely. We could also combine Bledsoe, Little, and our pick if we were going for another star. We could just waive Bledsoe, let Love expire and have cap space in 23. If we did trade Dame for players like Maxey & Simmons they’d actually work well with our roster.

The flexibility to go in a lot of different directions could work

[Moonbeam]

I get that this was not a great trade by any means, but I think some of the arguments are a bit hyperbolic. The "Portland traded 2 firsts for Covington" as some argument that the return for this trade is beyond appalling doesn't reconcile the fact that Covington was a big disappointment for Portland. Covington's value after the 2020 season was a lot higher than it is now. Part of that may be because Portland didn't utilize him all that well, but I think most of it is on him. RoCo very rarely brought any sort of consistent high impact on either end of the floor.

I understand the disappointment around Powell and what we traded to get him, however. It does seem that Portland should have been able to get better pieces in return with Norm going out.

[Case2012]

This trade was so bad it’s funny. The league should look into it honestly, no way someone competent would do this.

[wjun15]

I’ll give it my best shot.

Nurkic for Oubre

Turner & Love to Por
CJ & Winslow to Clev
Nance, Sexton, Johnson to Indy

Oubre & Turner are young enough to keep during a retool, skill sets work with Dame, are tradable & won’t drop in value if you blow it up completely. We could also combine Bledsoe, Little, and our pick if we were going for another star. We could just waive Bledsoe, let Love expire and have cap space in 23. If we did trade Dame for players like Maxey & Simmons they’d actually work well with our roster.

The flexibility to go in a lot of different directions could work

Even with this trade Dame just wasting his years in pdx losing in 1st or 2nd round.

[BlazersBroncos]

I’ll give it my best shot.

Nurkic for Oubre

Turner & Love to Por
CJ & Winslow to Clev
Nance, Sexton, Johnson to Indy

Oubre & Turner are young enough to keep during a retool, skill sets work with Dame, are tradable & won’t drop in value if you blow it up completely. We could also combine Bledsoe, Little, and our pick if we were going for another star. We could just waive Bledsoe, let Love expire and have cap space in 23. If we did trade Dame for players like Maxey & Simmons they’d actually work well with our roster.

The flexibility to go in a lot of different directions could work

Even with this trade Dame just wasting his years in pdx losing in 1st or 2nd round.

Not to mention there isnt a chance in hell the FO has some grand master plan to flip the guys we just got for some epic deal.

We got out of Powell's contract because we plan to pay Simons and we either wont (Because he is Dame's BFF) or cant (Because the league sees an overpaid Eric Gordon) move CJ.

We burnt 2 of the few assets we have to ensure we can pay Simons and have the same problem (3 well paid guards) for the next season as we do now (3 well paid guards).

[Sinobas]

Covington was not going to be re-signed and this is a throw away season, so I don't care about Covington. Keon Johnson could be considered a 1st round pick as he's what, 19 and was a 1st rounder last year. He'd probably have been a lotto pick this year. At least we recouped something of what we gave up to get RoCo.

But we basically gave Norm away in a salary dump. I think he'd have been a nice piece in another trade.

He was a better fit next to Dame because he's a better defender. Now we're back to either Dame/CJ or Dame / Simons.

[Butter]

Covington was not going to be re-signed and this is a throw away season, so I don't care about Covington. Keon Johnson could be considered a 1st round pick as he's what, 19 and was a 1st rounder last year. He'd probably have been a lotto pick this year. At least we recouped something of what we gave up to get RoCo.

But we basically gave Norm away in a salary dump. I think he'd have been a nice piece in another trade.

He was a better fit next to Dame because he's a better defender. Now we're back to either Dame/CJ or Dame / Simons.

If only it was CJ instead of Norm.

[Wickzki]

If Dame approved this trade then Dame has now become the NBA's version of Dan Marino.

Has and will shatter a lot of franchhse records, has made poor playoff squads but will never go close to winning the big one.

Surely there's no way he agreed to this.

[DusterBuster]

I get that this was not a great trade by any means, but I think some of the arguments are a bit hyperbolic. The "Portland traded 2 firsts for Covington" as some argument that the return for this trade is beyond appalling doesn't reconcile the fact that Covington was a big disappointment for Portland. Covington's value after the 2020 season was a lot higher than it is now. Part of that may be because Portland didn't utilize him all that well, but I think most of it is on him. RoCo very rarely brought any sort of consistent high impact on either end of the floor.

I understand the disappointment around Powell and what we traded to get him, however. It does seem that Portland should have been able to get better pieces in return with Norm going out.

This is a very fair point. I honestly didn’t find RoCo to be that much of an improvement over Aminu for what he brought to the Blazers on-the-court. After how highly touted he was from other teams fans, that made him a pretty big disappointment in my mind.

Again though, I felt he still had enough past-value rep to be more than the throw-in he was here. I think the Blazers could have extracted better value trading him in a separate deal.

[dunlop212]

They didn't want to pay Trent, but plan to pay Simons (and maybe Nurk). I'm OK with that.

The idea of building a contender around Lillard has probably been delusional for years (maybe since Matthews got hurt and LMA left). PDX has been adding vets and has gotten older and less athletic for years. So now they are headed for the Juan Dixon era level play. Might as well get young and more athletic while doing it. Makes paying Lillard 50 million a year less likely now, and I am OK with that.

I thought this summary was fair:

Watch on YouTube

[Wizenheimer]

This isn't tied to the deadline but the one benefit to the Bledsoe contract is that its only guaranteed for $3.9 mil in 22/23 if declined within 4 days of free agency but you can trade it as a 19.4 million dollar contract after the season ends. This would be a huge advantage in a trade for a player like Turner or Grant as matching salary around draft time.

I'm not certain what you're saying here but it appears to be incorrect

Bledsoe's current salary is 18.1M. Portland can get a trade credit for that full amount between now and the deadline, 4 or 5 days away. After the trade deadline there will be a moratorium on trades until the end of the regular season, or the playoffs, whichever is latest for each team. After that moratorium for Portland, Bledsoe can only be traded for his 3.9M guarantee, unless, Portland guarantees the full 19.4M amount of his contract for next season

obviously, the Blazers will not guarantee Bledsoe's contract next season. And his value as a 3.9M trade chip around the draft will be negligible. Effectively, his value as a trade asset expires at the deadline.

personally, I think if he isn't traded in the next 5 days he should be waived. He should never take the floor for Portland. He might be able to help win a game or two they should lose because the tank is on full tilt...as it should be. Portland should do what the Spurs did before drafting Duncan; and what the Warriors did before drafting Wiseman. And that's finding all kinds of subtle ways to lose more games. Ratcheting up their lottery odds is the best value they can create over the remaining 27 games

[Wizenheimer]

I thought this summary was fair:

Watch on YouTube

that summary completely depends on Portland making step 2 and step 3 trades. Not only that, it depends on those trades being great trades instead of more like the garbage trade the one yesterday was. It assumes there was a complex plan and yesterday was the first step in 3D chess. Essentially, what he's saying is "hold on now, I know the trade looks like sht from the Portland POV but there has to be a step 2 and a step 3 that will make the step 1 trade look less bad". Yeah, but what if there isn't?

and of course, those "steps" might not happen till the off-season because you know, patience is a virtue. So he's asking people who endured 10 damn long years of Olshey incompetence and inertia to be patient with another year of the same from Cronin. Because at any point it could pivot into brilliance. LOL

[DusterBuster]

I thought this summary was fair:

Watch on YouTube

that summary completely depends on Portland making step 2 and step 3 trades. Not only that, it depends on those trades being great trades instead of more like the garbage trade the one yesterday was. It assumes there was a complex plan and yesterday was the first step in 3D chess. Essentially, what he's saying is "hold on now, I know the trade looks like sht from the Portland POV but there has to be a step 2 and a step 3 that will make the step 1 trade look less bad". Yeah, but what if there isn't?

and of course, those "steps" might not happen till the off-season because you know, patience is a virtue. So he's asking people who endured 10 damn long years of Olshey incompetence and inertia to be patient with another year of the same from Cronin. Because at any point it could pivot into brilliance. LOL

Yeah, I don’t totally disagree with the video breakdown… but I also hate the “you gotta wait to judge this until the next move” excuse for a bad trade.

He’s probably correct there will be at least one more trade to be made, maybe two, and we really shouldn’t totally judge Cronin until this summer when the roster remake is complete with the lottery pick or whoever the Blazers trade that pick for and then FA. We’re all assuming that we are headed for a Dame/Simons backcourt future… but who knows anything for sure in the NBA.

That said, again, even with there likely being more moves to be made for the roster, that’s just no excuse to make bad trades that bring back no real value outside of dumping salary. You should be able to do better as a GM… but maybe we’re all just delusional as fans and don’t have a good gauge of how NBA front offices operate… maybe this is actually what they consider good trades… idfk anymore

[Wizenheimer]

Yeah, I don’t totally disagree with the video breakdown… but I also hate the “you gotta wait to judge this until the next move” excuse for a bad trade.

He’s probably correct there will be at least one more trade to be made, maybe two, and we really shouldn’t totally judge Cronin until this summer when the roster remake is complete with the lottery pick or whoever the Blazers trade that pick for and then FA. We’re all assuming that we are headed for a Dame/Simons backcourt future… but who knows anything for sure in the NBA.

That said, again, even with there likely being more moves to be made for the roster, that’s just no excuse to make bad trades that bring back no real value outside of dumping salary. You should be able to do better as a GM… but maybe we’re all just delusional as fans and don’t have a good gauge of how NBA front offices operate… maybe this is actually what they consider good trades… idfk anymore

in a very real way, the equation for Portland basic: the path to contending is to put more talent and balance around Dame. That's a pretty simple gauge.

applying that gauge to yesterday's trade writes WTF? across the Portland sky. Nothing about that trade moved Portland in the direction they need to go. They got worse talent, worse trade assets, and only trimmed 6.1M off of next year's salary base. The only plausible way to say Portland moved in the right direction is that the trade might help the Blazers lose more games and get a higher draft pick in 5 months. But to confirm that, Bledsoe should never play a minute for Portland. If he does, then the one potential positive from this trade is shot full of holes

but more than that, if for instance even if CJ is traded to New Orleans for a best package of Hart, Valunciunas, and a 1st, it does not change the nature of yesterday's trade. Not in any way

making it more difficult is that if yesterday's trade is finalized, then none of the 3 players Portland got can be part of an aggregated trade before this trade deadline. They have to be traded one-for-one

[HoopsFanAZ]

This isn't tied to the deadline but the one benefit to the Bledsoe contract is that its only guaranteed for $3.9 mil in 22/23 if declined within 4 days of free agency, but you can trade it as a 19.4 million dollar contract after the season ends. This would be a huge advantage in a trade for a player like Turner or Grant as matching salary around draft time.

I'm not certain what you're saying here but it appears to be incorrect.

Bledsoe's current salary is 18.1M. Portland can get a trade credit for that full amount between now and the deadline, 4 or 5 days away. After the trade deadline, there will be a moratorium on trades until the end of the regular season, or the playoffs, whichever is latest for each team. After that moratorium for Portland, Bledsoe can only be traded for his 3.9M guarantee, unless, Portland guarantees the full 19.4M amount of his contract for next season

Obviously, the Blazers will not guarantee Bledsoe's contract next season. And his value as a 3.9M trade chip around the draft will be negligible. Effectively, his value as a trade asset expires at the deadline.

Personally, I think if he isn't traded in the next 5 days he should be waived. He should never take the floor for Portland. He might be able to help win a game or two they should lose because the tank is on full tilt ... as it should be. Portland should do what the Spurs did before drafting Duncan; and what the Warriors did before drafting Wiseman. And that's finding all kinds of subtle ways to lose more games. Ratcheting up their lottery odds is the best value they can create over the remaining 27 games.

Thank you for the explanation on the rules. The ramifications and suggestions — well argued.

[JasonStern]

This isn't tied to the deadline but the one benefit to the Bledsoe contract is that its only guaranteed for $3.9 mil in 22/23 if declined within 4 days of free agency but you can trade it as a 19.4 million dollar contract after the season ends. This would be a huge advantage in a trade for a player like Turner or Grant as matching salary around draft time.

Combine that with the picks and prospects we got from the Powell and Covington trade- Oh, wait. We didn't get that. We likely just traded for a $3.9M cap hit next season. Winning!

[Case2012]

Can anyone think of a worse trade in the last decade or so? I honestly can’t. It’s that bad. I don’t know what those conversations were like but I’m embarrassed for the people involved in making that decision.

At least with Olshey, you knew he wouldn’t do anything to risky or stupid. Now I have no idea what to expect after yesterday.