LeBron James 2021-22 Regular Season Thread - Part ?

[trickshot]

Think we knew Lebron would get fedup with Westbrook and not mind if he be traded. There haven't been many this season but watch closely games where Lebron is locked in on defense and making calls, Westbrook doesn't even listen to his quaterbacking. There was a game where Lebron kept calling for lone coverage, Westbrook would always leave his man (good 3pt shooter) to go help on a non-immediate threat in the corner. He showed pure frustration. Coaches and teammates are just expected to support poor ole persecuted westbrook when he blows them off.

Also doesn't follow Vogel's coaching's philosophy on screens. It's like dropping a random fan into a game sometimes, the indiscipline is unreal. Vogel never even benched Rondo who was far from the most disciplined. How do you execute a structured gameplan in the playoffs playing this guy 30 minutes? It might actually be better to miss the playoffs this year.

I believe the relationship will reach full breakdown in the playoffs if they make it and we could even see an irreparable midseries benching in the final couple games they are on the brink of elimination. Will probably still get blown out because the roster sucks with and without.

[LukaTheGOAT]

I suppose the idea of Miami Heat Lebron is theoretical and the belief that he can do pretty much everything and is more well-rounded. But I still stand by my belief that 09 Lebron followe by a healthy elbow 10 Lebron is the greatest player ever. I get numbers aren't everything but it's hard for me to believe that those versions are incapable of doing what he did in Miami.

I guess that is part of what makes basketball interesting because unlike baseball, simply looking at numbers isn't enough to give you a definite answer that Player A is above Player B and there is room for interpretation of how players do in different circumstances.

I'm actually starting to be of the belief that Lebron's true peak was actually wasted / never seen. The difference between 08-10 Lebron's athleticism and 2011-2013 Lebron's athleticism was monumental. It was like two tiers apart, all for what? So he could switch onto 4's every blue moon and post up an extra 0.8 times a game? 08-10 Lebron wouldn't lose in 2011 Finals. The year before he was off the dribble tomahawk dunking on dudes in the half court. He couldn't move for **** in 2011 though. His added weight decreased his stamina and visibly did decrease his speed and vertical.

2011-14 Lebron was legitimately extremely well rounded though. In 2011 shot 45% from mid range on 6 attempts per game and 42% on 7 attempts per game (tied 5th highest volume in the league with Melo) in 2012. Shot 50% from the post in 2013 and 14 on average in addition to 39% 3 point shooting on average.

If you combine his Miami roundedness with his Cleveland athleticism I think we get something even better than what we actually saw.

And I know that most skill peaks don't coincidence with athletic peaks anyway but it's not like Lebron had left his athletic peak, he just shut it off temporarily cuz he got fat on request lol. There's no reason why 2017-18 Lebron should be more nimble than 2011-13 Lebron. Tis a travesty.

Yeah I've come to believe this too, I wonder what the reason was for bulking up. Did Riley or somebody else in the organization tell him to or was it his own decision? Really, it's impressive that his Miami tenure was as dominant as it was despite carrying around an extra 25+ pounds for no reason. Watch some highlights from the 2017 ECF and compare it to him in Miami and the difference in his quickness off the dribble is night and day despite being several years older.

Look at the **** he was doing here in 09, the dunk at 4:33 for example just out of this world. Imagine if he had his Miami skillset with this kind of inhuman athleticism

Watch on YouTube

The best way I've seen someone describe Miami Lebron is my friend who described Lebron when working out with Hakeem, as looking "LeBron's spin move looked like he had glass in his joints"

Watch on YouTube

[falcolombardi]

coincidentslly i was just rewatching lebron vs orlando in 2009

there is a play in game 1 where he is the line rim protector against a orlando Drive, orlando player doesnt dsre to challenge him at the rim and kicks out to a corner 3

lebron then fr*aking explodes from the paint into the corner in maybe the best help defense play i have ever seen (still went in, a bummer)

that stuff was not of this World

[Im Your Father]

I'm actually starting to be of the belief that Lebron's true peak was actually wasted / never seen. The difference between 08-10 Lebron's athleticism and 2011-2013 Lebron's athleticism was monumental. It was like two tiers apart, all for what? So he could switch onto 4's every blue moon and post up an extra 0.8 times a game? 08-10 Lebron wouldn't lose in 2011 Finals. The year before he was off the dribble tomahawk dunking on dudes in the half court. He couldn't move for **** in 2011 though. His added weight decreased his stamina and visibly did decrease his speed and vertical.

2011-14 Lebron was legitimately extremely well rounded though. In 2011 shot 45% from mid range on 6 attempts per game and 42% on 7 attempts per game (tied 5th highest volume in the league with Melo) in 2012. Shot 50% from the post in 2013 and 14 on average in addition to 39% 3 point shooting on average.

If you combine his Miami roundedness with his Cleveland athleticism I think we get something even better than what we actually saw.

And I know that most skill peaks don't coincidence with athletic peaks anyway but it's not like Lebron had left his athletic peak, he just shut it off temporarily cuz he got fat on request lol. There's no reason why 2017-18 Lebron should be more nimble than 2011-13 Lebron. Tis a travesty.

Yeah I've come to believe this too, I wonder what the reason was for bulking up. Did Riley or somebody else in the organization tell him to or was it his own decision? Really, it's impressive that his Miami tenure was as dominant as it was despite carrying around an extra 25+ pounds for no reason. Watch some highlights from the 2017 ECF and compare it to him in Miami and the difference in his quickness off the dribble is night and day despite being several years older.

Look at the **** he was doing here in 09, the dunk at 4:33 for example just out of this world. Imagine if he had his Miami skillset with this kind of inhuman athleticism

Watch on YouTube

The best way I've seen someone describe Miami Lebron is my friend who described Lebron when working out with Hakeem, as looking "LeBron's spin move looked like he had glass in his joints"

Watch on YouTube

I agree with all of this. First Cleveland to Miami Lebron was night and day in terms of quickness.

Cleveland Lebron used to regularly blow by guards off the bounce.

When I watch the 2011 Dallas series, the main issue I see isn’t some major choke, but rather that he couldn’t even get by old Peja off the dribble, combined with his mid range jumper (which had v been unusually hot all year going cold.)

[Slava]

I refuse to believe he wants to leave LA, everything up there fits him and his lifestyle. This is a maximum pressure campaign to ensure he gets his way in the offseason and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we start hearing rumors soon that Jeannie is inquiring about potential availability of James Jones for the GM job.

[falcolombardi]

The NBA media is pure garbage. So much vitriol for a player who has been a model citizen off the court since entering the league as an 18 year old kid. Dudes have made entire careers out of hating on LeBron. You have one great who was credibly accused of rape, another great who impregnated a literal child, and yet LeBron is the problem star. Hmm.

The past few years I’ve become so much less interested in the NBA and way more interested in the NFL. That’s a league that builds their stars up. The NBA is nonstop trashing the best players. The media clowns with the most ridiculous takes get the most attention. It’s a cancer.

I think I've said this before but TNT is perhaps the worst marketing tool / self detrimental sports show in human history. It's incredibly popular but it epitomises the old head mentality. Despite the fact a lot of fans weren't even born in the era that is the oldheads are deifying, they too come to believe that basketball now is **** and peaked in the 80's and 90's on account of them being dumbass sheep.

So you have a fanbase of ever expanding NBA fans who despite their new fandom are actually fans that mainly criticize the sport, leading to an ever increasing toxicity within the fandom.

It really is fascinating to see the one sport in which the “general consensus” media and fan take is that these players aren’t as good as the players of the golden ‘80s and ‘90s and the cause of this is the never-ending deification of Jordan because if the league is more talented now (and it is, drawing players from everywhere), then it casts doubts on the unarguable GOATdom of Jordan. You’ll see that his most ardent supporters are 27-30 year olds who never even saw him play other than maybe as very little kids or saw old Jordan in Washington.

As thebigbird mentions, the NFL celebrates its current players, openly is in awe of better and better athletes making absurd catches every week, etc. Same can be said about baseball. But basketball? Nah, it was perfected in the ‘80s and ‘90s.

is interesting that i got into basketball circa 2009 and back then people already were **** in the modern game compared to 90's and 80's and its players for similar reasons you see today

too soft, no defense (ignore that scoring was higher in the 80's/90's) too much spacing and 3's hence today stars are trash and their stats needed to be cut in half por "fairness", players are only Drive and kick machines no real fundamentals

then more than 10 years later 00's ball is old enough and actually different enough from modern ball than is getting the same treatment

add to this natural nostalgia that the game has actually changed so much compared to football or baseball and is easy to see how people who grew up with a very different game feel like this is another sport

for better or worse no american sports has had a more radical transformación than basketball and the people who run the media are those who grew up ad kids with "old basketball"

of course some actually love what basketball has became, but the loudest voices are the ones who hate it

[falcolombardi]

I refuse to believe he wants to leave LA, everything up there fits him and his lifestyle. This is a maximum pressure campaign to ensure he gets his way in the offseason and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we start hearing rumors soon that Jeannie is inquiring about potential availability of James Jones for the GM job.

part of me honestly hates the idea of lebron winning more rings in lakers than cavs

it doesnt feel right if that makes sense

of course i dont mind if lebron wins a ring in the lakers but i wish it was in Cleveland instead

[McBubbles]

I refuse to believe he wants to leave LA, everything up there fits him and his lifestyle. This is a maximum pressure campaign to ensure he gets his way in the offseason and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we start hearing rumors soon that Jeannie is inquiring about potential availability of James Jones for the GM job.

part of me honestly hates the idea of lebron winning more rings in lakers than cavs

it doesnt feel right if that makes sense

of course i dont mind if lebron wins a ring in the lakers but i wish it was in Cleveland instead

I agree. I said in the 2018 Off Season that Lebron has one of the most unique careers in NBA history, and that him joining the Lakers would make him just like everybody else. Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Dwight, Nash, Malone, Payton, etc.

[MartinToVaught]

for better or worse no american sports has had a more radical transformación than basketball

I'm not sure I agree with this. Go back and watch an old NFL game from before the Brady/Manning era and the difference in how physically defenses were allowed to play stands out immediately. We've gone from the era of "NFL's Hardest Hits" VHS compilations to holding our breaths and waiting for the bailout PI/roughing call whenever a superstar quarterback throws an incompletion. And yes, I know that some things had to change because of legitimate safety concerns for the players, and I'm not arguing against that side of it, just pointing out that the changes have indeed been radical.

Baseball's all-encompassing embrace of the three true outcomes is kind of in the same category as NBA teams chucking up three-pointers all game, complete with the same complaints about how it's homogenizing the sport and hurting the entertainment value. The analytics movement has also noticeably changed the way teams handle pitchers (strict pitch counts and openers) and defense (pitch-framing and shifting).

NASCAR has pretty much destroyed itself by making too many gimmicky changes to the rules and formats - a path that Silver seems intent to follow with the NBA.

Hockey has probably stayed the closest to status quo, but even then, the NHL finally emerged from the much-maligned Dead Puck Era in recent years.

The biggest difference is that the other sports don't have media that actively hates their own sport and only wants to discuss TMZ drama and not the games. The NBA also has the saltiest and most narcissistic former players of any sport, which has turned a lot of the discourse into a blind hate crusade rather than nuanced criticism.

[zimpy27]

What do you guys think of trading Westbrook+FRPs for Hayward+Rozier?
It's probably the simplest trade I can come up with that gives Lakers a good chance next season. They can use the TaxMLE on Monk.

Rozier, Monk, Hayward, LeBron, Davis -- Nunn, Reaves, THT, Melo, Howard

[sp6r=underrated]

for better or worse no american sports has had a more radical transformación than basketball

I'm not sure I agree with this. Go back and watch an old NFL game from before the Brady/Manning era and the difference in how physically defenses were allowed to play stands out immediately. We've gone from the era of "NFL's Hardest Hits" VHS compilations to holding our breaths and waiting for the bailout PI/roughing call whenever a superstar quarterback throws an incompletion. And yes, I know that some things had to change because of legitimate safety concerns for the players, and I'm not arguing against that side of it, just pointing out that the changes have indeed been radical.

Baseball's all-encompassing embrace of the three true outcomes is kind of in the same category as NBA teams chucking up three-pointers all game, complete with the same complaints about how it's homogenizing the sport and hurting the entertainment value. The analytics movement has also noticeably changed the way teams handle pitchers (strict pitch counts and openers) and defense (pitch-framing and shifting).

NASCAR has pretty much destroyed itself by making too many gimmicky changes to the rules and formats - a path that Silver seems intent to follow with the NBA.

Hockey has probably stayed the closest to status quo, but even then, the NHL finally emerged from the much-maligned Dead Puck Era in recent years.

The biggest difference is that the other sports don't have media that actively hates their own sport and only wants to discuss TMZ drama and not the games. The NBA also has the saltiest and most narcissistic former players of any sport, which has turned a lot of the discourse into a blind hate crusade rather than nuanced criticism.

I agree with all of this. And to add I think all sports leagues should continually adjust their rules. When they're adjusting their rules they should be asking themselves: What type of game do we think fans of basketball (or other sport) would enjoy most? With that as the North star they can then continually figure out how to adjust the rules. What you want to do is ensure that entertaining styles of play are the most efficient given the quality of players available..

With regards to the NBA, I am not sure we are there yet, but the NBA will need to consider moving the 3 point line back as the shot each year increasingly canibalizes the rest of basketball.

Baseball is a warning of what happens when you don't do this. Their games are now marathons with very little action because the league refuses to make significant changes that would penalize solely going for HR/Walks/Strikeouts

[Im Your Father]

for better or worse no american sports has had a more radical transformación than basketball

I'm not sure I agree with this. Go back and watch an old NFL game from before the Brady/Manning era and the difference in how physically defenses were allowed to play stands out immediately. We've gone from the era of "NFL's Hardest Hits" VHS compilations to holding our breaths and waiting for the bailout PI/roughing call whenever a superstar quarterback throws an incompletion. And yes, I know that some things had to change because of legitimate safety concerns for the players, and I'm not arguing against that side of it, just pointing out that the changes have indeed been radical.

Baseball's all-encompassing embrace of the three true outcomes is kind of in the same category as NBA teams chucking up three-pointers all game, complete with the same complaints about how it's homogenizing the sport and hurting the entertainment value. The analytics movement has also noticeably changed the way teams handle pitchers (strict pitch counts and openers) and defense (pitch-framing and shifting).

NASCAR has pretty much destroyed itself by making too many gimmicky changes to the rules and formats - a path that Silver seems intent to follow with the NBA.

Hockey has probably stayed the closest to status quo, but even then, the NHL finally emerged from the much-maligned Dead Puck Era in recent years.

The biggest difference is that the other sports don't have media that actively hates their own sport and only wants to discuss TMZ drama and not the games. The NBA also has the saltiest and most narcissistic former players of any sport, which has turned a lot of the discourse into a blind hate crusade rather than nuanced criticism.

I agree with all of this. And to add I think all sports leagues should continually adjust their rules. When they're adjusting their rules they should be asking themselves: What type of game do we think fans of basketball (or other sport) would enjoy most? With that as the North star they can then continually figure out how to adjust the rules. What you want to do is ensure that entertaining styles of play are the most efficient given the quality of players available..

With regards to the NBA, I am not sure we are there yet, but the NBA will need to consider moving the 3 point line back as the shot each year increasingly canibalizes the rest of basketball.

Baseball is a warning of what happens when you don't do this. Their games are now marathons with very little action because the league refuses to make significant changes that would penalize solely going for HR/Walks/Strikeouts

The thing I always wonder about moving the line back (and I truly don't know the answer to this) is do you you think there's a chance that this just makes defense even harder in the long run, as the floor becomes even more stretched? There are a whole lot of NBA players that can hit from well beyond the line.

I guess it's a matter of hitting the sweet spot on distance, where some players can still hit it regularly, but an average to below average shooter can't shoot any kind of consistent percentage from it?

[falcolombardi]

if 3 point shooting truly becomes a issue i would look first into less "intrusive" adjustments first

stuff like tighter reffereeing on moving screens

[sp6r=underrated]

if 3 point shooting truly becomes a issue i would look first into less "intrusive" adjustments first

stuff like tighter reffereeing on moving screens

I don't think moving the line back is intrusive. The 3 point line was created, correctly, because the game wasn't fun to watch with all the players clogged in the lane.

Well now 40% of shot are 3pa. 5 years ago it was 31%. 10 years ago it was 22%

I think we're very close to the 3 point line becoming a problem.

[falcolombardi]

if 3 point shooting truly becomes a issue i would look first into less "intrusive" adjustments first

stuff like tighter reffereeing on moving screens

I don't think moving the line back is intrusive. The 3 point line was created, correctly, because the game wasn't fun to watch with all the players clogged in the lane.

Well now 40% of shot are 3pa. 5 years ago it was 31%. 10 years ago it was 22%

I think we're very close to the 3 point line becoming a problem.

is it a specific percentage of 3's where it becomes a problem or is somethingh else?

iirc the jumpshots/shots in the rim ratio has been stable through nba history, meaning 3 point shots have ate away at midrange jumpshots (spot ups mostly), while shots at the rim provided by the new spacing have ate away at post ups

[sp6r=underrated]

if 3 point shooting truly becomes a issue i would look first into less "intrusive" adjustments first

stuff like tighter reffereeing on moving screens

I don't think moving the line back is intrusive. The 3 point line was created, correctly, because the game wasn't fun to watch with all the players clogged in the lane.

Well now 40% of shot are 3pa. 5 years ago it was 31%. 10 years ago it was 22%

I think we're very close to the 3 point line becoming a problem.

is it a specific percentage of 3's where it becomes a problem or is somethingh else?

iirc the jumpshots/shots in the rim ratio has been stable through nba history, meaning 3 point shots have ate away at midrange jumpshots (spot ups mostly), while shots at the rim provided by the new spacing have ate away at post ups

Yes I think there is a point were the 3 point shot attempts become a problem. Remember 3s are efficient despite having a higher miss rate. What we want to avoid is the baseball 3 true outcome scenario were all parts of the game have devolved into setting up 3 point shots.

3 point shot importance in the game of basketball is rapidly canibalizing other parts of the game. I don't think an NBA were 50% of shot attempts is as fun to watch as 30%.

We're going to find out if the line isn't moved because by the end of this decade it will be over 50% if the line stays the same.

[nzahir]

I refuse to believe he wants to leave LA, everything up there fits him and his lifestyle. This is a maximum pressure campaign to ensure he gets his way in the offseason and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we start hearing rumors soon that Jeannie is inquiring about potential availability of James Jones for the GM job.

I think he will play where his son goes

So if the Lakers draft him, he will stay

If the Clippers draft him.....he will stay in LA at least

James Jones just signed an extension...

I think Lebron's best move is to sign a 1+1 and take a 50% paycut this summer

Russ would also have to agree on a deal. Say 2 years 50ish M or a 3 year deal around 60ish M

Not really a big paycut considering he may not get more than 10m the next year

[MartinToVaught]

I'm not sure moving the line back will accomplish much. The good shooters probably won't have the adjustment period that people are hoping they would, and I'm not even just referring to guys like Curry and Lillard here. There's plenty of role players like Luke Kennard, Patty Mills, Joe Harris, Doug McDermott, etc. who are also way too good to be thrown off by the line moving back. Everyone else would still be encouraged to chuck from long range because 3>2.

Just spitballing here, but maybe they should remove the third point from shots beyond the arc and make dunks worth three points instead. Threes aren't difficult enough anymore to justify the extra reward, and putting a premium on dunks instead might encourage players to get to the rim more and make the exciting plays that casual fans want to see.

[Jurassic_Park]

Do lakers have any shot to win it all this year? They currently sit at 40 to 1 (the highest i have seen).

If AD comes back before the playoffs, anything is possible? Lebron/AD can go up against any duo.

Cp is hurt
Dray - who knows what is happening
Den - murray out. Porter out
Dal - not enough talent

Worth a shot?

[nzahir]

Do lakers have any shot to win it all this year? They currently sit at 40 to 1 (the highest i have seen).

If AD comes back before the playoffs, anything is possible? Lebron/AD can go up against any duo.

Cp is hurt
Dray - who knows what is happening
Den - murray out. Porter out
Dal - not enough talent

Worth a shot?

Not worth betting lol

There is a chance we don't even make it past the play in

Suns would destroy us

Maybe we can really challenge GS though if AD is playing well

We need a pickup or two fro the buyout market, but not looking great

The team is not very good

Who here is a positive player?

For sure:

Lebron
AD

Maybes:
Monk
Nunn?????

Dwight in a certain role

Good enough to play in a series:
Reaves

Forced to play because we aren't very good:
Melo
Russ
Stanley