OT: Russia-Ukraine War

[E-Balla]

Y'all trying to pretend we gotta pick a side because it's Russia. Imma say what I said about Hong Kong, wtf y'all want us to do about it? Because if the answer is go to war I'll always oppose that.

[E-Balla]

I’ve acknowledged white nationalism as a problem repeatedly, but you’re working strictly in broad strokes. If somebody was learning anything for the first time and you were their source they’d think the Ukraine deserves what is happening because it is run by Nazis or that there is no difference between American political parties.

You didn't acknowledge it as a problem, you called us Kremlin sympathizers for saying America shouldn't support the Ukraine.

If that broad stroke is "don't use my tax money to fund international far right extremists" yeah imma use it.

If someone was learning it from you for the first time they'd be ready to go to war to feed the economy possibly leading to nuclear ramifications all in the support of a country that's not an ally and that cozies up to neo Nazis.

And the Democratic Party is just flat out dumb at best or controlled opposition at worst. Either way defending their nonsense (when we're talking about a party that's war mongering for wartime profits at the expense of human life) is a bigger problem than criticizing them for some people because neoliberals think West Wing is real life.

It’s always Burn Baby Burn with you. Anything less and someone is a milquetoast neoliberal to you. IIRC you were the one who called me a racist because I didn’t think it was cool to burn down a Vietnamese restaurant in Tampa. You said that’s what insurance is for. You have no answers. None. We’re done

I never said anything of the sort. Wasn't even on here posting heavy during the George Floyd protests (I assume that's what you're referring to here).

Stop ducking. Say flat out what you want america to do here about anything? Or do you have nothing you want America to do and you're virtue signaling?

[Clyde_Style]

You didn't acknowledge it as a problem, you called us Kremlin sympathizers for saying America shouldn't support the Ukraine.

If that broad stroke is "don't use my tax money to fund international far right extremists" yeah imma use it.

If someone was learning it from you for the first time they'd be ready to go to war to feed the economy possibly leading to nuclear ramifications all in the support of a country that's not an ally and that cozies up to neo Nazis.

And the Democratic Party is just flat out dumb at best or controlled opposition at worst. Either way defending their nonsense (when we're talking about a party that's war mongering for wartime profits at the expense of human life) is a bigger problem than criticizing them for some people because neoliberals think West Wing is real life.

It’s always Burn Baby Burn with you. Anything less and someone is a milquetoast neoliberal to you. IIRC you were the one who called me a racist because I didn’t think it was cool to burn down a Vietnamese restaurant in Tampa. You said that’s what insurance is for. You have no answers. None. We’re done

I never said anything of the sort. Wasn't even on here posting heavy during the George Floyd protests (I assume that's what you're referring to here).

Stop ducking. Say flat out what you want america to do here about anything? Or do you have nothing you want America to do and you're virtue signaling?

That’s why I used IIRC. If that was not you, then my apologies.

Have a nice day

[Nykbacker]

Pretty crazy to me how the Ukraine president is soliciting untrained civilians to attack trained Russian soldiers.

I think I’d offer my help with the cause, but no chance would I join the frontlines where I know I am likely going to get killed, because I don’t know what I am doing.

[Pointgod]

This is written by someone that avoided all mentions of the Ukraine in left leaning media between 2014 and 2019 but now they think they're experts.

The Ukrainian military has a whole Neo Nazi battalion and their Jewish President is known for cozying up to far right wing extremists. The head of the capital police is a Neo Nazi.

I've posted articles from left wing sources dating back to 2014 on this, y'all believe what the American war mongering machine tells you though. America is definitely not known for lying on other countries to justify acts of aggression.

I’m sure you have actual proof for this bold claim and not just some Twitter user or obscure reference in an article. Ironically you’re justifying the Russian acts of aggression by pushing this neo nazi bull, which is a problem that’s been acknowledged, but completely irrelevant to whether or not Russia can invade a sovereign country.

https://time.com/5926750/azov-far-right-movement-facebook/

https://www.newstatesman.com/international-content/2022/02/silence-wont-make-the-ukrainian-far-right-go-away

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10520643/Former-neo-Nazi-head-warns-American-fascists-planning-fight-Ukraine-Russia-invades.html

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/17/theres-one-far-right-movement-that-hates-the-kremlin-azov-ukraine-biletsky-nouvelle-droite-venner/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/02/15/defend-the-white-race-american-extremists-being-co-opted-by-ukraines-far-right/

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/05/01/ukr-m01.html

https://www.illiberalism.org/far-right-group-made-its-home-in-ukraines-major-western-military-training-hub/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/opinion/politics/white-supremacist-terrorism.html

My proof is basically every article written on the Ukraine before Putin acknowledged the Neo Nazi movement in the Ukraine was a problem. Ain't a single person here justifying a damn thing Russia is doing. Literally not one person in this whole thread. We're condemning America for what they're doing. I don't give 2 **** about either Russia or the Ukraine. Let them solve that themselves. I'm against America intervening to aid Neo Nazis in a country that's not even in NATO and we've been doing that for way too long. They called people traitors in support of Saddam for being against war 20 years ago too...

That’s not proof buddy. That’s conjecture. Show me actual proof of your claim that the President is cozying up to the far right and the head of the Capitol police is an out and proud neo nazi. The whole world has a problem with far right movements and parties in government, but you’re acting like the whole Ukranian government is neo Nazis and America is only funding neo Nazis is pushing Russian propaganda whether you want to admit it or not.

Ukraine’s a US ally that has asked for support defending itself from a Russian attack. NATO won’t get in any direct conflict or be involved with the fighting. The US could, but that’s another story. The funny thing here about you bringing up the Iraq Invasion is that in this example Russia is the aggressor, just like the US was during the Iraq war. Ukraine as a sovereign nation has a right to defend itself just like Iraq did, despite Saddam Hussein being a oppressive, brutal dictator.

[Zenzibar]

I’m sure you have actual proof for this bold claim and not just some Twitter user or obscure reference in an article. Ironically you’re justifying the Russian acts of aggression by pushing this neo nazi bull, which is a problem that’s been acknowledged, but completely irrelevant to whether or not Russia can invade a sovereign country.

https://time.com/5926750/azov-far-right-movement-facebook/

https://www.newstatesman.com/international-content/2022/02/silence-wont-make-the-ukrainian-far-right-go-away

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10520643/Former-neo-Nazi-head-warns-American-fascists-planning-fight-Ukraine-Russia-invades.html

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/17/theres-one-far-right-movement-that-hates-the-kremlin-azov-ukraine-biletsky-nouvelle-droite-venner/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/02/15/defend-the-white-race-american-extremists-being-co-opted-by-ukraines-far-right/

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/05/01/ukr-m01.html

https://www.illiberalism.org/far-right-group-made-its-home-in-ukraines-major-western-military-training-hub/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/opinion/politics/white-supremacist-terrorism.html

My proof is basically every article written on the Ukraine before Putin acknowledged the Neo Nazi movement in the Ukraine was a problem. Ain't a single person here justifying a damn thing Russia is doing. Literally not one person in this whole thread. We're condemning America for what they're doing. I don't give 2 **** about either Russia or the Ukraine. Let them solve that themselves. I'm against America intervening to aid Neo Nazis in a country that's not even in NATO and we've been doing that for way too long. They called people traitors in support of Saddam for being against war 20 years ago too...

That’s not proof buddy. That’s conjecture. Show me actual proof of your claim that the President is cozying up to the far right and the head of the Capitol police is an out and proud neo nazi. The whole world has a problem with far right movements and parties in government, but you’re acting like the whole Ukranian government is neo Nazis and America is only funding neo Nazis is pushing Russian propaganda whether you want to admit it or not.

Ukraine’s a US ally that has asked for support defending itself from a Russian attack. NATO won’t get in any direct conflict or be involved with the fighting. The US could, but that’s another story. The funny thing here about you bringing up the Iraq Invasion is that in this example Russia is the aggressor, just like the US was during the Iraq war. Ukraine as a sovereign nation has a right to defend itself just like Iraq did, despite Saddam Hussein being a oppressive, brutal dictator.

What more proof you want

[E-Balla]

We should treat this like Yemen. Ain't got **** to do with us. If we weren't involved this **** wouldn't have happened.

Ah bringing up Yemen which is a sophisticated piece of whataboutism that ignores the fact that Saudi Arabia’s atrocities in Yemen have been extensively covered and reported on in the mainstream media and a whole congressional act to stop US from funding Saudia Arabia’s war in Yemen was passed and vetoed by you guessed it Donald **** Trump.

Uhhh. I know you not dumb but your reading comprehension is off here.

1. It ain't whataboutism. Whataboutism is what you're doing in your post.

2. I know the war was covered by the media - I learned about it somehow didn't I?

3. I know we had a whole congressional act to stop funding Yemen that was vetoed and that one of the first things Biden did once he got in office was take the Houthi off the terrorist list.

4. I understand Biden hasn't stopped finding them, but the general position of the public is that we need to remove ourselves from that conflict.

5. My post is saying we, as a people, need to have that same energy towards the Ukraine. We shouldn't have anything to do with this and our involvement is making it worse for the people in the Ukraine right now.

I don't even know what post you think you read or responded to here but it ain't mine. Read to understand not to respond.

I’m fully open to being wrong here. But as far as I know Yemen isn’t a U.S. ally, while Ukraine is and one that has asked for NATO support. The ironic part is that Saudi Arabia is a U.S. ally and withdrawing support from them, for very good reason, is the hypocrisy. All that’s to say is Yemen has nothing to do with Russia invading sovereign country.

The Ukraine ain't a US ally. It's not even considered one of our non NATO allies. Prior to 2014 Ukraine has closer ties to Russia than the US. Hell they helped Saddam back in 02.

You clearly ain't read correctly so you didn't get the point: AMERICA AIN'T THE WORLD POLICE.

[E-Balla]

https://time.com/5926750/azov-far-right-movement-facebook/

https://www.newstatesman.com/international-content/2022/02/silence-wont-make-the-ukrainian-far-right-go-away

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10520643/Former-neo-Nazi-head-warns-American-fascists-planning-fight-Ukraine-Russia-invades.html

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/17/theres-one-far-right-movement-that-hates-the-kremlin-azov-ukraine-biletsky-nouvelle-droite-venner/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2019/02/15/defend-the-white-race-american-extremists-being-co-opted-by-ukraines-far-right/

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/05/01/ukr-m01.html

https://www.illiberalism.org/far-right-group-made-its-home-in-ukraines-major-western-military-training-hub/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/11/opinion/politics/white-supremacist-terrorism.html

My proof is basically every article written on the Ukraine before Putin acknowledged the Neo Nazi movement in the Ukraine was a problem. Ain't a single person here justifying a damn thing Russia is doing. Literally not one person in this whole thread. We're condemning America for what they're doing. I don't give 2 **** about either Russia or the Ukraine. Let them solve that themselves. I'm against America intervening to aid Neo Nazis in a country that's not even in NATO and we've been doing that for way too long. They called people traitors in support of Saddam for being against war 20 years ago too...

That’s not proof buddy. That’s conjecture. Show me actual proof of your claim that the President is cozying up to the far right and the head of the Capitol police is an out and proud neo nazi. The whole world has a problem with far right movements and parties in government, but you’re acting like the whole Ukranian government is neo Nazis and America is only funding neo Nazis is pushing Russian propaganda whether you want to admit it or not.

Ukraine’s a US ally that has asked for support defending itself from a Russian attack. NATO won’t get in any direct conflict or be involved with the fighting. The US could, but that’s another story. The funny thing here about you bringing up the Iraq Invasion is that in this example Russia is the aggressor, just like the US was during the Iraq war. Ukraine as a sovereign nation has a right to defend itself just like Iraq did, despite Saddam Hussein being a oppressive, brutal dictator.

What more proof you want

See? This is what we're up against. 9 articles all from different sources given as evidence but it's not proof? Meanwhile he keeps calling the Ukraine an ally which shows how little knowledge he has on the Ukraine.

Also NATO won't get into any direct conflict? They're already there!

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/25/nato-deploy-troops-eastern-flank-ukraine-00011902

Pointgod you need to read before you talk my guy.

[E-Balla]

MFers out here thinking NATO is a trade organization but they got opinions on foreign policy decisions.

[E-Balla]

Also here's a source for the capital police because I actually know WTF I'm saying and I didn't start paying attention to the Ukraine in the last week (y'all know if someone is keeping track of Neo Nazi's gaining power in a foreign nation it's gonna be me).

https://khpg.org/en/1540419843

https://www.rferl.org/a/banderite-rebrand-ukrainian-police-declare-admiration-for-nazi-collaborators-to-make-a-point/29764110.html

I did misremember what I had previously read though. They're not the capital police, it's the national police.

Like come on every publication now saying it's a lie from Putin has already reported on this **** themselves.

The Guardian 4 years ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/13/ukraine-far-right-national-militia-takes-law-into-own-hands-neo-nazi-links

The Guardian now:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/vladimir-putin-ukraine-attack-antisemitism-denazify

Is it Oochie Wally or is it One Mic? We all know what it is. Manufactured consent, let's get this wartime economy popping. Kill some young men for profit margins.

[Zenzibar]

That’s not proof buddy. That’s conjecture. Show me actual proof of your claim that the President is cozying up to the far right and the head of the Capitol police is an out and proud neo nazi. The whole world has a problem with far right movements and parties in government, but you’re acting like the whole Ukranian government is neo Nazis and America is only funding neo Nazis is pushing Russian propaganda whether you want to admit it or not.

Ukraine’s a US ally that has asked for support defending itself from a Russian attack. NATO won’t get in any direct conflict or be involved with the fighting. The US could, but that’s another story. The funny thing here about you bringing up the Iraq Invasion is that in this example Russia is the aggressor, just like the US was during the Iraq war. Ukraine as a sovereign nation has a right to defend itself just like Iraq did, despite Saddam Hussein being a oppressive, brutal dictator.

What more proof you want

See? This is what we're up against. 9 articles all from different sources given as evidence but it's not proof? Meanwhile he keeps calling the Ukraine an ally which shows how little knowledge he has on the Ukraine.

Also NATO won't get into any direct conflict? They're already there!

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/25/nato-deploy-troops-eastern-flank-ukraine-00011902

Pointgod you need to read before you talk my guy.

Buddy also said that Saddam was an oppressive and brutal dictator. Unless he's Iraqi which I doubt, what would he reference if not the same content generators of those articles you just evidenced. So which is it?

But it doesn't fit his point of view, so his references are legit but yours are not. Some of which, I'm pretty sure are from the same sources.

[Gorilla Monsoon]

E-Balla came in here and shut this sh*t tf down Lmao

[Capn'O]

And I once supported Trump because a younger me was admittedly duped into thinking he was a true "outsider" for a period of time.

I'm glad you realized he is a con. He is a con.

Two things can be true at once. For example, the US can hold an atrocious foreign policy record, which it does, and Putin can be a complete psycho threatening world order, which he is. I'm sympathetic with the need to shake the world order up but this is not the droid you're looking for. He's a ruthless authoritarian invading a sovereign, democratic nation that does not want him there. And I say him because it's clear he's gone beyond even the very extreme confines of his party.

With Putin/Russia, NATO is in the right... and the current course has Putin spinning himself out of power with his recklessness.

[cgmw]

The Mongols weren't the only world power at the time and they didn't succeed long term if the standard of succeeding long term is based on modern versions of that concept. The European powers have lasted twice as long as the Mongolian empire.

Couple things:

1) I’m a little drunk atm and would like to apologize for my foolhardiness in the face of actual hardship faced by millions of my fellow humans; but…

2) DYK genetically every human on earth can trace their lineage to a single male ancestor of Asian origin during the times of the Monguls? Literally every one of us can trace our genetic heritage back to a brief time in human history when horses carried non-lactose* warriors between Asia and Europe.

Take that colonialism! Knicks board FTW.

Spoiler:

*I mention lactose because apparently the Monguls defeated the Chinese because they could survive on horse milk while their adversaries needed to haul rice.

**If you’ve read this far, everything I’ve said is true but also this is what you get for receiving your current events from the RGM Knicks board. Read Reuters ffs you maniac

This is 100% not true. It's something people say but the actual science says 0.5% of men (mostly in Asia) are related to Genghis Khan.

Oof, glad I apologized in advance. The only “truth” on this board is A) tequila is a helluva drug, and B) Rowan Alexander Barrett Junior is the second coming of Jesus Christ himself.

Spoiler:

A postmortem on my drunken “facts” probably points to the real academic findings a Yale mathematician named Joseph Chang who concluded in 2003 that every human alive today has a common ancestor who lived 3,4000 years ago somewhere in Asia.

This is confusing stuff because we think of ourselves as our cultural identities from the last millennium or so, and is only vaguely relevant to the topic because of the pre-history of Ukraine. The Eastern European steppe is one of the genetic choke points of human history that increases the probability of human migration.

From Chang’s paper:

“Our findings suggest a remarkable proposition: no matter the languages we speak or the color of our skin, we share ancestors who planted rice on the banks of the Yangtze, who first domesticated horses on the steppes of the Ukraine, who hunted giant sloths in the forests of North and South America, and who labored to build the Great Pyramid of Khufu.”

There you go. Anyway, I was drunk and I think maybe trying to express solidarity? The horse milk thing is an entirely separate triviality of history and I assure you no horses were milked in the making of last night’s drunken posts.

[dakomish23]

Anyone who believes the Ukranian government, who’s President is Jewish, is full of Nazis is a complete **** moron and has fallen down the rabbit hole of Russian propaganda. Ask yourself why you’re conveniently hearing about Nazis in Ukranian government when Russia is starting a war with them and is the obvious aggressor.

The truth is that there are far right neo Nazis in Ukraine fighting against Russian aggression that’s true. Some of these groups have also been absorbed into the Ukranian army that’s also true. But it’s absolute bull to spread Putin’s lie that he’s fighting Nazis when he himself has pushed far right/Nazi parties across Europe and North America. This is a situation where the enemy of my enemy is a friend and the Ukrainians will need to deal with the far right at another time because they’re just fighting to survive right now.

I’d like to know why conservatives are pushing the Nazi lie as if they hate Nazis, but then have actual white supremacy folks who deny the Holocaust, fundraising for their congress people & invite those same folks to their events? Or allow their base to bring confederate flags to their events?

Which is it? Are you pro white supremacy or not? Stop running around the fringes pretending you’re not, or worse, projecting like the other side is.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I told ppl in 2016 that Trump could win b/c there are a large number of ppl who feel this way and him winning would open the floodgates for them to be loud & proud about their bigotry. Was I wrong?

[dakomish23]

MFers out here thinking NATO is a trade organization but they got opinions on foreign policy decisions.

Somebody here said that? I thought it was just the one idiots tweet I shared

[Pointgod]

MFers out here thinking NATO is a trade organization but they got opinions on foreign policy decisions.

Somebody here said that? I thought it was just the one idiots tweet I shared

No one here said that he’s just making up ish per usual.

[Clyde_Style]

Anyone who believes the Ukranian government, who’s President is Jewish, is full of Nazis is a complete **** moron and has fallen down the rabbit hole of Russian propaganda. Ask yourself why you’re conveniently hearing about Nazis in Ukranian government when Russia is starting a war with them and is the obvious aggressor.

The truth is that there are far right neo Nazis in Ukraine fighting against Russian aggression that’s true. Some of these groups have also been absorbed into the Ukranian army that’s also true. But it’s absolute bull to spread Putin’s lie that he’s fighting Nazis when he himself has pushed far right/Nazi parties across Europe and North America. This is a situation where the enemy of my enemy is a friend and the Ukrainians will need to deal with the far right at another time because they’re just fighting to survive right now.

I’d like to know why conservatives are pushing the Nazi lie as if they hate Nazis, but then have actual white supremacy folks who deny the Holocaust, fundraising for their congress people & invite those same folks to their events? Or allow their base to bring confederate flags to their events?

Which is it? Are you pro white supremacy or not? Stop running around the fringes pretending you’re not, or worse, projecting like the other side is.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I told ppl in 2016 that Trump could win b/c there are a large number of ppl who feel this way and him winning would open the floodgates for them to be loud & proud about their bigotry. Was I wrong?

You were correct. The Trump era empowered people to show their true ugly selves. Now we have chitty comedians who hob knob with the far right, but hide behind "fk you if you can't take a joke, I'm a comic" when people point out the connections of their fellow travelers. Mainstreaming hate without taking responsibility for it is how these d-bags roll these days. The political equivalent is to constantly accuse your opposition of the things you're actively doing behind closed doors, then acting all butthurt when you get exposed. Crude racism is still crude, it is just getting mainstreamed.

[dakomish23]

MFers out here thinking NATO is a trade organization but they got opinions on foreign policy decisions.

Somebody here said that? I thought it was just the one idiots tweet I shared

No one here said that he’s just making up ish per usual.

I was wondering b/c I didn’t see it and I posted the tweet showing someone actually thought that and we all laughed.

[Clyde_Style]

MFers out here thinking NATO is a trade organization but they got opinions on foreign policy decisions.

Somebody here said that? I thought it was just the one idiots tweet I shared

No one here said that he’s just making up ish per usual.

Never seen them post in anything other than full volume anger. Hard to take them seriously