Political Roundtable Part XXX

[montestewart]

Nate’s dumb. It’s not his fault.

You all know better than that. Don’t call people names, mods or not. Just debate. Everybody. If you hate someone’s take so much that you feel the need to call someone “dumb” or whatever, just don’t respond. Alternatively, there are plenty of cogent, constructive things you can say in response. Stick to that. I hate policing and have little time to do so but will if things like this force the issue.

Agree with Nate or (usually) not, he’s the only right sider willing to come in here occasionally and spell out an opposing view. Tear that view apart if you want. Don’t attack the writer with name calling.

PS: You all surely know I don’t agree with Nate on these issues, but I’ve been following his basketball analysis for years. He certainly is not dumb.

[montestewart]

nobody gives a fig about your dumb guy thoughts anyway. when people solicit your opinion, it's to make fun of your dumb guy takes. Love the idea that Putin is scared of republicans and waits for dems to win before launching invasions. Simply amazing.

I see the level of discourse on this thread meets my expectations.

This is actually the type of post that gets people banned, pancakes3. I don't feel comfortable moderating this board since nearly all of you disagree with me politically, but this is totally inappropriate.

Seconded. Nate won't use mod status to respond, but I will. We have a more relaxed board here, but this would get you suspended on the General Board, the CA board, and most other boards. Don't do it, pancakes (or anyone). Ever. Stop the name calling, stick to the issues, and don't force the issue.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?t=mV1A2MczHiyoN5G3sG01gQ&s=19

[Pointgod]

And this is where you are……

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

[doclinkin]

Read on Twitter

Cynical move by Germany though. That might have mattered as a signal to Russia before the invasion. Putin might have thought twice if Germany had signaled in advance that doing so would cut off the Nordsteam2 pipeline. Their silence gave him the go-ahead. World reaction shamed them into a too little too late reaction.

[Ruzious]

Read on Twitter

Cynical move by Germany though. That might have mattered as a signal to Russia before the invasion. Putin might have thought twice if Germany had signaled in advance that doing so would cut off the Nordsteam2 pipeline. Their silence gave him the go-ahead. World reaction shamed them into a too little too late reaction.

Maybe so, but it's still dramatically better late than never.

[Ruzious]

And this is where you are……

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Unbelievable but... believable.

[Kanyewest]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-putin-cpac-speech-ukraine-b2024210.html

Trump said America is stupid and Putin is smart.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

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[Zonkerbl]

Sounds like everyone is waiting to see how long Kiv can hold out, despite Trump withholding the anti-tank missiles Zelensky asked for, because Trump's a treasonous traitor who should be in jail now, waiting for a treason sentence. Everybody in my wacky lefty twitter timeline went nuts when Zelenskyy put out the video saying he was staying and could we please send missiles, not a limo. If all he needs is anti-tank missiles, we can get him anti-tank missiles.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?t=_Tcn5A26HKaTRkjEuaLvuQ&s=19

Read on Twitter

?t=NrC7cspR-i_zvYTOm9QBqQ&s=19

[Pointgod]

Remember stuff like this when people say Republicans and Democrats are the same.

Read on Twitter

[Wizardspride]

Remember stuff like this when people say Republicans and Democrats are the same.

Read on Twitter

Democrats are far from perfect obviously but yeah, I have no doubts who and WHAT the Republicans are.

[payitforward]

I don't think Trump is being paid by Putin, Putin is too smart for that....

I don't either, & i didn't say he was being paid by Putin.

I referred to "...Donald Trump, who is essentially in the pay of Putin," by which I meant that what he says now, like much of what he did as POTUS, is hard to distinguish from what it would be if he were actually on Putin's payroll.

In short, his words reflect his need for Putin -- or more concretely for Russian money. In that sense, when as you write...

...Just dangle some real estate deals, stroke his ego, say nasty things about Democrats, Trump'll do whatever you want. He's gullible and easy to manipulate, and old and demented to boot...

...I think you underestimate what a vile creature he is.

...the crimes (Trump's) being investigated for are rich people crimes - nobody prosecutes them because they're impossible to prove, by design. He's "innocent" in the same way all plutocrats are - he's above the law, for the category of crimes he commits. If he was a pedophile or something it'd be a different story. But even Matt Gaetz is wealthy enough to beat a statutory rape charge, so what makes you think Trump is any more vulnerable.

Don't forget that he was flat out guilty of selling out Ukraine for his own personal gain, the corrupt Republican senators just refused to vote consistently with the facts. That doesn't make him innocent, that makes him the beneficiary of corruption....

Not just the beneficiary of corruption but thoroughly, utterly, corrupt himself.

The only "just" end for Donald Trump would be to suffer the fate of Mussolini -- have his body dragged through the streets, be left for dogs to piss on -- should any dog wish to lower himself to that degree.

[payitforward]

Read on Twitter

I hope I live long enough to see this axxhole get what he deserves.

[verbal8]

Putin seems to have made a massive mistake in Ukraine. He is losing on the world stage, on the ground in Ukraine and at home with anti-war protests.

The territorial gains by the the Russians are very limited considering their advantages in numbers and technology. In terms of inspiration/morale, the Russians seem to have nothing. The Ukrainians have Zelensky, Snake Island and the Old Lady asking the Russians about Sunflower seeds.

I think the question at this point is will Putin/Russia have any control in Donbas and Crimea at the end of this.

[Kanyewest]

Someone posted this on the times Trump has been

Not sure how to post the hyperlink for the sources here - other than manually.

If someone says otherwise, give them one of the following points:

• Praised Putin constantly, called him a "strong leader", has peddled statements like "he's done a really great job outsmarting our country" (source)

• Trump dismissed and cast doubt about Russian hacking, particularly when the U.S determined that Russia hacked the DNC in 2016, while ironically enough, he encouraged Russian cyber attacks on national TV saying, "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing," (source)

• When addressing Russian election interference and cyber attacks, Trump proclaimed "I don't see any reason why it would be Russia" after speaking directly with Putin, defending Russia and trusting Putin over our own intelligence agencies. Later he "corrected" himself, claiming that he meant to say "wouldn't" instead of would (source)

• Trump suggested the U.S. work directly with Russia on cybersecurity (source)

• Almost directly after the 2016 election, Trump sought to weaken U.S. sanctions on Russia, while he was even open to lifting sanctions (source)

• Trump dismissed the notion that Putin was a "killer", downplaying the idea that Putin resorts to using violence and oppressive tactics to crush political opponents. He defended Putin, rationalizing his ruthless despotism in the process, declaring, "There are a lot of killers. Do you think our country is so innocent?" (source)

• Trump shared highly classified U.S. intelligence with Russian officials in the Oval Office in 2017 (source)

• Trump repeated Kremlin talking points related to the Russian annexation of Crimea, reiterating things like, "The people of Crimea, from what I've heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were." (source)

• Trump constantly attacked NATO, aligning himself with Putin (source)

• Trump thanked Putin for expelling hundreds of U.S. diplomats as a retaliation for sanctions (source)

• Trump imposed tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum while Republicans were working on a deal with Oleg Deripaska, one of Putin’s most trusted oligarchs, on an alumina plant in Kentucky (source)

• According to congressional testimony, Trump declined to publicly condemn a Russian attack against Ukrainian military vessels in November 2018, even though the State Department prepared a statement for him (source)

• Trump congratulated and gave legitimacy to Putin's re election win in 2018, a victory said to "lack genuine competition" (source)

• Sergei Skripal, an ex Russian spy that defected to the UK, was poisoned. Sanctions were announced, Trump attempted to rescind them, while asserting that the U.S. was being "too tough on Putin" (source)

• When congress passed new sanctions against Russia in 2017, Trump was very reluctant to signing the bill, and probably wouldn't have signed it if the bill didn't pass with veto-proof majorities in both houses (source)

• In 2017 it was reported that Trump was considering returning spy bases to Russia (source)

• Trump praised and highlighted pro-Russian leaders in Europe. Far right European leaders with close ties to Putin. He even met a Kremlin ally at the Whitehouse (source)

• When Trump withdrew troops from Syria, it gave Russia and Putin an opportunity to control abandoned U.S. outposts and checkpoints (source)

• Trump froze U.S. aide for Ukraine in it's war against Russian proxies. He repeated Russian disinformation surrounding Ukraine as well (source)

• Trump made requests to bring Russia back into the G7 and invited Putin to the 2020 G7 summit (source)

[pancakes3]

Putin seems to have made a massive mistake in Ukraine. He is losing on the world stage, on the ground in Ukraine and at home with anti-war protests.

The territorial gains by the the Russians are very limited considering their advantages in numbers and technology. In terms of inspiration/morale, the Russians seem to have nothing. The Ukrainians have Zelensky, Snake Island and the Old Lady asking the Russians about Sunflower seeds.

I think the question at this point is will Putin/Russia have any control in Donbas and Crimea at the end of this.

it's a bad look for Russia for sure, but Ukraine is still of tremendous strategic importance to Russia. 3 big reasons:

1) Belarus, Russia's biggest puppet, is surrounded on 3 sides by pro-NATO forces, one of which is Ukraine. Gaining that additional buffer keeps missiles at further arm's reach. Putin was already unhappy with the US putting missile bases in Poland, and Ukraine is several hundred miles closer.

2) Ukraine is the reason for Nordstream 2. Russia was never happy with the fact that gas pipelines had to go through Ukraine, but really didn't like it when Zelensky came to power because the gas pipelines running through Ukraine to Europe are going to be more heavily taxed, and Russia can't exert control over Ukraine under a pro-NATO Ukraine. They lose tons of money, and Russia at this point is basically a petrol state like OPEC nations. They don't have manufacturing, IT, or any other meaningfully profitable industries. It's energy, then raw materials, and bullets.

3) Ukraine also recently discovered nat gas and oil reserves in the Black Sea and in underground shale. Russia wants a piece of that, which was what prompted the crimea invasion. More importantly, Russia doesn't want Ukraine to get a piece of that, to become a competitor in the EU market. Taking Crimea already scared off Shell and Exxon. Invading Ukraine ensures that Ukraine can't do it themselves.