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And say in said scenario...you get 6 & Griffin goes 5 (Garland/Culver scenario)....that's where it starts to get hard? Is Sharpe 6, if he comes out or someone else on your list?Mattya wrote:If you are going to trade up, the obvious target is AJ Griffin. I get Jovic makes some good passes and has lots of room to grow, but his shooting has cratered, not sure I’d count him as an offensive threat.
old school 34 wrote:And say in said scenario...you get 6 & Griffin goes 5 (Garland/Culver scenario)....that's where it starts to get hard? Is Sharpe 6, if he comes out or someone else on your list?Mattya wrote:If you are going to trade up, the obvious target is AJ Griffin. I get Jovic makes some good passes and has lots of room to grow, but his shooting has cratered, not sure I’d count him as an offensive threat.
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Assuming Griffin's medicals clear & we have enough assets to get to where he's going to be drafted....then, absolutely I'm on board.Mattya wrote:old school 34 wrote:And say in said scenario...you get 6 & Griffin goes 5 (Garland/Culver scenario)....that's where it starts to get hard? Is Sharpe 6, if he comes out or someone else on your list?Mattya wrote:If you are going to trade up, the obvious target is AJ Griffin. I get Jovic makes some good passes and has lots of room to grow, but his shooting has cratered, not sure I’d count him as an offensive threat.
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Griffin is the only player I’m trading up for right now, and I’m only dealing with the team that has his rights.
Super speculative, but the logic makes sense. Of course, we'd need to be comfortable with the list of red flags...but as interested as we were in Ben Simmons...why wouldn't we do the same due diligence on Zion. It will be fun if it really comes to that...how that market bears out?winforlose wrote:
Clutch is like a box of chocolates, mixed with a bunch of horse manure in the shape of chocolates, you never know what your going to get. Zion has played in 85 games in the past 3 years. His weight has ballooned out of control, and he is a bad teammate. Never mind the fact that Dlo and KAT are close friends, Dlo is our best clutch scorer, a solid shooter, and a defensive floor general. I like the idea of having Zion on a rookie scale, but paying for him is like playing Russian roulette with a gun with only one empty spot. Your odds of him staying healthy, in shape, and happy are so low you might as well be shooting yourself in the head.
old school 34 wrote:Super speculative, but the logic makes sense. Of course, we'd need to be comfortable with the list of red flags...but as interested as we were in Ben Simmons...why wouldn't we do the same due diligence on Zion. It will be fun if it really comes to that...how that market bears out?winforlose wrote:
Clutch is like a box of chocolates, mixed with a bunch of horse manure in the shape of chocolates, you never know what your going to get. Zion has played in 85 games in the past 3 years. His weight has ballooned out of control, and he is a bad teammate. Never mind the fact that Dlo and KAT are close friends, Dlo is our best clutch scorer, a solid shooter, and a defensive floor general. I like the idea of having Zion on a rookie scale, but paying for him is like playing Russian roulette with a gun with only one empty spot. Your odds of him staying healthy, in shape, and happy are so low you might as well be shooting yourself in the head.
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winforlose wrote:old school 34 wrote:Super speculative, but the logic makes sense. Of course, we'd need to be comfortable with the list of red flags...but as interested as we were in Ben Simmons...why wouldn't we do the same due diligence on Zion. It will be fun if it really comes to that...how that market bears out?winforlose wrote:
Clutch is like a box of chocolates, mixed with a bunch of horse manure in the shape of chocolates, you never know what your going to get. Zion has played in 85 games in the past 3 years. His weight has ballooned out of control, and he is a bad teammate. Never mind the fact that Dlo and KAT are close friends, Dlo is our best clutch scorer, a solid shooter, and a defensive floor general. I like the idea of having Zion on a rookie scale, but paying for him is like playing Russian roulette with a gun with only one empty spot. Your odds of him staying healthy, in shape, and happy are so low you might as well be shooting yourself in the head.
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I don’t see how this is speculative? His health history is a fact. His weight problems are a fact, and a quick Google search will inform you of his locker room issues. While it is possible he totally transforms after being traded for, is that the most likely outcome?
Zion is a #1 overall and a game changer when healthy. The Pels will want to sell high on him. Also because he is a rookie scale making the money work will be tricky. I have no doubt teams swimming with picks like OKC and Houston will offer on him. I also expect NY and Detroit and other teams looking for more star power to bite. We should not be one of them.
The speculative comment was meant for the article itself....nothing but trying to connect dots if Zion truly wants out.Slim Tubby wrote:winforlose wrote:old school 34 wrote:Super speculative, but the logic makes sense. Of course, we'd need to be comfortable with the list of red flags...but as interested as we were in Ben Simmons...why wouldn't we do the same due diligence on Zion. It will be fun if it really comes to that...how that market bears out?
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I don’t see how this is speculative? His health history is a fact. His weight problems are a fact, and a quick Google search will inform you of his locker room issues. While it is possible he totally transforms after being traded for, is that the most likely outcome?
Zion is a #1 overall and a game changer when healthy. The Pels will want to sell high on him. Also because he is a rookie scale making the money work will be tricky. I have no doubt teams swimming with picks like OKC and Houston will offer on him. I also expect NY and Detroit and other teams looking for more star power to bite. We should not be one of them.
Literally everything you state here is accurate. However, sometimes, to win big, you have to gamble big. The deal would almost certainly have to include Ant so I’m on your side of the discussion at the end of the day.
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Domejandro wrote:I would trade literally every future pick that Minnesota has, unprotected, to gamble on Zion. Unfortunately, New Orleans would want a more serious offer.
shangrila wrote:Domejandro wrote:I would trade literally every future pick that Minnesota has, unprotected, to gamble on Zion. Unfortunately, New Orleans would want a more serious offer.
I think it's one of those situations where the only reason NO even entertains the idea is if there's something seriously wrong, either medically or that he wants to go to a big market, which would be the exact reason why we shouldn't bother.
shrink wrote:shangrila wrote:Domejandro wrote:I would trade literally every future pick that Minnesota has, unprotected, to gamble on Zion. Unfortunately, New Orleans would want a more serious offer.
I think it's one of those situations where the only reason NO even entertains the idea is if there's something seriously wrong, either medically or that he wants to go to a big market, which would be the exact reason why we shouldn't bother.
True, and people should keep in mind that NOP is one of the smallest markets, and one of the least financially secure teams in the NBA. They have a potential HOF player with star power. More than virtually any other team, they simply can’t make a deal that doesn’t bring back superstar .. future picks, no matter how many, is out of the question.
That sounds about right....you sign him for a # right between the two different mid-levels (7 or 8)...2 or 3 yrs with 3rd if you went there TO. He just gives you so much flexibility on where he can fit in...even if bigger move still potentially materializes & he doesn't cost you using a mid-level on him like say bringing Roco back?wolves_89 wrote:I've come around to thinking that it would be a good idea to try to get Prince to sign an extension. I'd call up his agent and see if he'd be interested in something around $16M/2 years.
My off-season plan would then be pretty simple, try to re-sign Nowell and Reid to reasonable deals and use the full MLE to sign a rotation big.
shrink wrote:I’ve been giving more thought to Taurean Prince’s next contract, and I think we might give him a big 1-year contract.
The Timberwolves are in a similar situation to the Hawks a couple years back. Our total salaries only come up to the salary cap, well below the lux, and a team payroll of $121 mil would have less talent than one closer to $147. We are not a free agent destination, so even the MLE (which I expect we will try to use on a big) might not bring much talent. When ATL was in this position, they decided to give Gallinari a big, one year contract (actually two - the second season was partially guaranteed). They had the money, they could reward him for his service and keep him there, and they maintained a salary-matching piece for a future trade.
And while it might sound crazy, I could see MIN overpaying their ninth man a big number, even up to $15 mil. This lets them maintain his talent and offcourt leadership on the young Wolves, while giving him incentive to refuse a multi-year deal elsewhere. Since they have his Early Bird rights, they don’t have to use their exceptions, and a big expiring keeps them under the lux now, but gives them flexibility down the road.
100% agreed...assuming a bigger trade doesn't happen in offseason where significant money is taken in (& I'm not even sure that's possible)....you bring him back on either of those options & you essentially have the same guys locked & loaded as guys that fit with the current roster now or can be solid trade assets for a team looking to move a bigger piece & start a rebuild. We can afford to be patient & find the right next piece....because we can just bank on a certain amount of internal growth from the rest of our younger core types. Hartenstein & a rookie pf type & bring the majority of the remaining band back would suffice....leaving you in a good spot to still jump when the right piece becomes available....more Memphis model than old Rockets model (just because I think they'll tend to value youth & upside in that next piece over established vet with extra name recognition) or at least that's my hope?jpatrick wrote:shrink wrote:I’ve been giving more thought to Taurean Prince’s next contract, and I think we might give him a big 1-year contract.
The Timberwolves are in a similar situation to the Hawks a couple years back. Our total salaries only come up to the salary cap, well below the lux, and a team payroll of $121 mil would have less talent than one closer to $147. We are not a free agent destination, so even the MLE (which I expect we will try to use on a big) might not bring much talent. When ATL was in this position, they decided to give Gallinari a big, one year contract (actually two - the second season was partially guaranteed). They had the money, they could reward him for his service and keep him there, and they maintained a salary-matching piece for a future trade.
And while it might sound crazy, I could see MIN overpaying their ninth man a big number, even up to $15 mil. This lets them maintain his talent and offcourt leadership on the young Wolves, while giving him incentive to refuse a multi-year deal elsewhere. Since they have his Early Bird rights, they don’t have to use their exceptions, and a big expiring keeps them under the lux now, but gives them flexibility down the road.
I’d have no problems with this. Keeps books clean after 2023 and doesn’t really cost us anything because we’re already over the cap. I also wouldn’t mind a 2-3 year deal at a lower number. Having shooters like Beasley and Prince off the bench has been huge for us this year.
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