Welcome James Harden!

[mjkvol]

And let’s not use Kevin Durant as this poster child for “dog mentality.”

Thanks, I was going to actually make the point in my earlier response and forgot that's it's quite convenient that Durant's "dog mentality" coincided with joining one of the great teams in league history, one that had already won a championship without him. We haven't seen much evidence of it before or since.

How would you characterize his time with OKC or his series vs the bucks?

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Durant, only adding some context to the idea of trashing Harden for not having this alleged "dog mentality".

Regarding the Bucks series, Durant choked by wearing shoes that were too large.

[FireMorey]

There is certainly a degree of maturation necessary to achieve that mentality and style of play. It took Jordan for example time to accomplish it as well. Certainly Tyrese Maxey for example isn't going to be a dog at age 21.

But if you're 32 and you don't have it, you never will. And if that's the centerpiece of your team and he isn't surrounded by such players, there's a ceiling on what you can accomplish in the way of championships.

I mean, they were a Chris Paul hamstring injury away from beating the dynastic Warriors in a series. Just because the Rockets lost their second best player and weren’t able to make the finals doesn’t make Harden suddenly some dog. If Chris Paul stays healthy and they finish off the Warriors, somehow that changes the innate mental makeup of James Harden? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Winning and losing in sports only ever can be analyzed in context. If altering one small moment makes someone completely change the narrative of an entire player’s career that should be a sign that the narrative was bogus to begin with and formed on shaky ground.

You're illustrating the point exactly. Harden needs a dog like Paul around him to win at that level. The presence of Paul doesn't change the mental/emotional makeup of Harden, but it certainly changes the mental/emotional makeup of the team. When Paul goes out injured and you're left with Harden you lose the heart and soul of the team.

Certainly you don't think Chris Paul is likely to come out in that environment last night and lay an egg.

Harden like everyone else needs great players to win. And when you lose great players, it’s harder to win. They lost because they didn’t have the talent without their second best player to close the Warriors out, it didn’t have much to do with a mentality.

[Ferry Avenue]

I mean, they were a Chris Paul hamstring injury away from beating the dynastic Warriors in a series. Just because the Rockets lost their second best player and weren’t able to make the finals doesn’t make Harden suddenly some dog. If Chris Paul stays healthy and they finish off the Warriors, somehow that changes the innate mental makeup of James Harden? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Winning and losing in sports only ever can be analyzed in context. If altering one small moment makes someone completely change the narrative of an entire player’s career that should be a sign that the narrative was bogus to begin with and formed on shaky ground.

You're illustrating the point exactly. Harden needs a dog like Paul around him to win at that level. The presence of Paul doesn't change the mental/emotional makeup of Harden, but it certainly changes the mental/emotional makeup of the team. When Paul goes out injured and you're left with Harden you lose the heart and soul of the team.

Certainly you don't think Chris Paul is likely to come out in that environment last night and lay an egg.

Harden like everyone else needs great players to win. And when you lose great players, it’s harder to win. They lost because they didn’t have the talent without their second best player to close the Warriors out, it didn’t have much to do with a mentality.

At the level of conference championships and NBA titles, everybody has great players. It's the team mentality/culture that wins at that point, and that's driven by the mental/emotional makeup of the players. What this team showed last night is that it doesn't stand a chance in that environment.

[Kash22]

I mean, they were a Chris Paul hamstring injury away from beating the dynastic Warriors in a series. Just because the Rockets lost their second best player and weren’t able to make the finals doesn’t make Harden suddenly some dog. If Chris Paul stays healthy and they finish off the Warriors, somehow that changes the innate mental makeup of James Harden? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Winning and losing in sports only ever can be analyzed in context. If altering one small moment makes someone completely change the narrative of an entire player’s career that should be a sign that the narrative was bogus to begin with and formed on shaky ground.

You're illustrating the point exactly. Harden needs a dog like Paul around him to win at that level. The presence of Paul doesn't change the mental/emotional makeup of Harden, but it certainly changes the mental/emotional makeup of the team. When Paul goes out injured and you're left with Harden you lose the heart and soul of the team.

Certainly you don't think Chris Paul is likely to come out in that environment last night and lay an egg.

Harden like everyone else needs great players to win. And when you lose great players, it’s harder to win. They lost because they didn’t have the talent without their second best player to close the Warriors out, it didn’t have much to do with a mentality.

Ironically, Paul never made it out the second rd UNTIL he teamed up with harden, when CP3 blew a 3-1 to harden’s rockets, did CP3 have dog in him then?? People are ridiculous

[FireMorey]

You're illustrating the point exactly. Harden needs a dog like Paul around him to win at that level. The presence of Paul doesn't change the mental/emotional makeup of Harden, but it certainly changes the mental/emotional makeup of the team. When Paul goes out injured and you're left with Harden you lose the heart and soul of the team.

Certainly you don't think Chris Paul is likely to come out in that environment last night and lay an egg.

Harden like everyone else needs great players to win. And when you lose great players, it’s harder to win. They lost because they didn’t have the talent without their second best player to close the Warriors out, it didn’t have much to do with a mentality.

At the level of conference championships and NBA titles, everybody has great players. It's the team mentality/culture that wins at that point, and that's driven by the mental/emotional makeup of the players. What this team showed last night is that it doesn't stand a chance in that environment.

No it isn't, it's talent that wins, it's talent that always wins. Mentality is not tangible, you have no idea what's going through someone's mental makeup when you watch them play a basketball game.

[Ferry Avenue]

Harden like everyone else needs great players to win. And when you lose great players, it’s harder to win. They lost because they didn’t have the talent without their second best player to close the Warriors out, it didn’t have much to do with a mentality.

At the level of conference championships and NBA titles, everybody has great players. It's the team mentality/culture that wins at that point, and that's driven by the mental/emotional makeup of the players. What this team showed last night is that it doesn't stand a chance in that environment.

No it isn't, it's talent that wins, it's talent that always wins. Mentality is not tangible, you have no idea what's going through someone's mental makeup when you watch them play a basketball game.

And you have no idea how much a player's physical performance -- the expression of his talent -- is driven by his mental/emotional makeup.

Certainly you don't think Kobe Bryant's "mamba mentality" for example is meaningless in terms of his performance.

[Karate Diop]

I love that we’ve transitioned from obsessively watching offseason 3pt shooting in an empty gym to obsessively watching a man run up bleacher stairs.

Only thing left is a Sixers hype video of Harden/Embiid/Maxey running stairs up to the Rocky statue.

Its also how ridiculous it is to be robbed of good pick and roll play for the last 5-8 years. This is during an era when the league is basically a pick and roll contest league.

Even Jojo is just learning how to play as a roll man! In the first two games there were situations where he was sooo open but he ended up pumpfaking because he was surprised.

No amount of what Ben brings can make it up for not being able to run a pick and roll.

What the hell was Ben Simmons doing here as the main playmaker? He didn’t run any pick and rolls with Joel or anyone?

Fair question that someone should have asked the coaching staff... Just what the plan ever was for Simmons is a huge question mark which leads me to believe there never was a concrete one...

[Ferry Avenue]

Its also how ridiculous it is to be robbed of good pick and roll play for the last 5-8 years. This is during an era when the league is basically a pick and roll contest league.

Even Jojo is just learning how to play as a roll man! In the first two games there were situations where he was sooo open but he ended up pumpfaking because he was surprised.

No amount of what Ben brings can make it up for not being able to run a pick and roll.

What the hell was Ben Simmons doing here as the main playmaker? He didn’t run any pick and rolls with Joel or anyone?

Fair question that someone should have asked the coaching staff... Just what the plan ever was for Simmons is a huge question mark which leads me to believe there never was a concrete one...

The plan was for him to develop a jump shot and become a taller LeBron James who could play point guard. Unfortunately nobody accurately assessed his love for the game and determined that the absence of it would prevent him from putting in the offseason work necessary to achieve that.

[stormi]

The most optimized roster James Harden ever played on:

Notable stats/attributes [per 100 possessions]

Chris Paul: Ballhandler, spacer, guard defender, playmaker - 10.1 3PA, 12.2 assists, 2.6% steal rate

James Harden

Trevor Ariza: 3&D wing, athlete, bomber - 10.0 3PA, 6'8, 36.8% from 3, 2.1% steal

PJ Tucker: 3&D wing, corner specialist - 6.7 3PA, 9.9 rebounds, 37.1% from 3

Clint Capela: Hard screen setter, roller, rim protector, ferocious rebounder

Bench: Eric Gordon (Secondary creator, relentless bomber - 13.9 3PA), Ryan Anderson (relentless bomber - 9.7 3PA), Gerald Green (6'6 athletic wing, bomber from 3 - 15.8 3PA)

The plan was pretty simple, everyone on the court was making the life on James Harden easier, whether it was through defensive intensity, floor spacing, or rim running / athleticism. And besides Ryan Anderson - who lost his playoff minutes to Gerald Green anyways - there were no exploitable defenders on the court.

We're built completely the opposite. Niang and Green are our only two bombers and both have either waning or no athleticism.

Maxey shoots 5.2 3PA/100, Harris 5.0 3PA, Thybulle 4.6 3PA

Not only are we not getting adequate floor spacing from our starting unit, but we're somehow not getting the size, length or defensive switchability...

We're also lacking another true playmaker.

It isn't realistic to expect this roster to be transformed into the 2018 Houston Rockets. We have Joel Embiid and James Harden has to adjust his playstyle to playing alongside a dominant big.

I do think Maxey can be that Eric Gordon type of secondary scorer, but we need another playmaker in that S5 (Mike Conley). The entirety of the halfcourt offense and facilitation cannot run through the the hands of a 33 year old James Harden. It's overly predictable.

And then we simply need more shooting and size. That's non negotiable.

Niang, Maxey, Furkan, Shake, Harris etc are all exploitable defenders and it's dangerous because realistically we're going to have multiple of these guys on the court at all times.

Thybulle is an exploitable offensive player that's going to have to be schemed into effectiveness.

Very interested to see what happens this season, and where we do go from here.

[mjkvol]

The most optimized roster James Harden ever played on:

Notable stats/attributes [per 100 possessions]

Chris Paul: Ballhandler, spacer, guard defender, playmaker - 10.1 3PA, 12.2 assists, 2.6% steal rate

James Harden

Trevor Ariza: 3&D wing, athlete, bomber - 10.0 3PA, 6'8, 36.8% from 3, 2.1% steal

PJ Tucker: 3&D wing, corner specialist - 6.7 3PA, 9.9 rebounds, 37.1% from 3

Clint Capela: Hard screen setter, roller, rim protector, ferocious rebounder

Bench: Eric Gordon (Secondary creator, relentless bomber - 13.9 3PA), Ryan Anderson (relentless bomber - 9.7 3PA), Gerald Green (6'6 athletic wing, bomber from 3 - 15.8 3PA)

The plan was pretty simple, everyone on the court was making the life on James Harden easier, whether it was through defensive intensity, floor spacing, or rim running / athleticism. And besides Ryan Anderson - who lost his playoff minutes to Gerald Green anyways - there were no exploitable defenders on the court.

We're built completely the opposite. Niang and Green are our only two bombers and both have either waning or no athleticism.

Maxey shoots 5.2 3PA/100, Harris 5.0 3PA, Thybulle 4.6 3PA

Not only are we not getting adequate floor spacing from our starting unit, but we're somehow not getting the size, length or defensive switchability...

We're also lacking another true playmaker.

It isn't realistic to expect this roster to be transformed into the 2018 Houston Rockets. We have Joel Embiid and James Harden has to adjust his playstyle to playing alongside a dominant big.

I do think Maxey can be that Eric Gordon type of secondary scorer, but we need another playmaker in that S5 (Mike Conley). The entirety of the halfcourt offense and facilitation cannot run through the the hands of a 33 year old James Harden. It's overly predictable.

And then we simply need more shooting and size. That's non negotiable.

Niang, Maxey, Furkan, Shake, Harris etc are all exploitable defenders and it's dangerous because realistically we're going to have multiple of these guys on the court at all times.

Thybulle is an exploitable offensive player that's going to have to be schemed into effectiveness.

Very interested to see what happens this season, and where we do go from here.

Great post and breakdown, and thank you for bringing the thread back to basketball and away from silly pseudo-psychology.

Morey is obviously well aware what that ideal Harden roster was about, and has certainly spoken with Harden about the challenge of playing with a dominant big. The question is how to turn Harris, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Milton, and Green into those complimentary pieces. I still believe, as you say, that Maxey can grow into a Gordon-type role and that Niang is the kind of player that good teams have on the bench.

I don't have a lot of faith that this group, with all its flaws and only a quarter season together can seriously compete right now, but I'm going to enjoy what is hopefully the beginning of a fun 3-4 year ride.

[elchengue20]

Our better shot is going to be next season after Morey makes a few moves to get better complementary players.

After that i think Harden will start to get washed up, maaaybe one season more if he doesnt decline much and Maxey continues to develop at the same rate.

[marcush]

Hopefully we end the year well and James doesn’t just quit on us.

We are already down 3x FRPs and have a top 5 worst contract in the league. Not many options to improve now if this doesn’t work.

[downtownpie]

Harden like everyone else needs great players to win. And when you lose great players, it’s harder to win. They lost because they didn’t have the talent without their second best player to close the Warriors out, it didn’t have much to do with a mentality.

At the level of conference championships and NBA titles, everybody has great players. It's the team mentality/culture that wins at that point, and that's driven by the mental/emotional makeup of the players. What this team showed last night is that it doesn't stand a chance in that environment.

No it isn't, it's talent that wins, it's talent that always wins. Mentality is not tangible, you have no idea what's going through someone's mental makeup when you watch them play a basketball game.

Bucks have 1 superstar and an all star and that's it. Talent wise they weren't the best team but they got it done.

[agiaco]

At the level of conference championships and NBA titles, everybody has great players. It's the team mentality/culture that wins at that point, and that's driven by the mental/emotional makeup of the players. What this team showed last night is that it doesn't stand a chance in that environment.

No it isn't, it's talent that wins, it's talent that always wins. Mentality is not tangible, you have no idea what's going through someone's mental makeup when you watch them play a basketball game.

Bucks have 1 superstar and an all star and that's it. Talent wise they weren't the best team but they got it done.

Middleton and Holiday are extremely good players in general, and especially to have alongside Giannis. Then factor in the best contract in the league, Bobby. He's been a monster this year. Lopez has always been underrated. Solid impact from role players. Bucks have a great shot again this year if the team stays healthy.

[downtownpie]

No it isn't, it's talent that wins, it's talent that always wins. Mentality is not tangible, you have no idea what's going through someone's mental makeup when you watch them play a basketball game.

Bucks have 1 superstar and an all star and that's it. Talent wise they weren't the best team but they got it done.

Middleton and Holiday are extremely good players in general, and especially to have alongside Giannis. Then factor in the best contract in the league, Bobby. He's been a monster this year. Lopez has always been underrated. Solid impact from role players. Bucks have a great shot again this year if the team stays healthy.

Middleton and Holiday and very good players but not top 25.

[sixers4real]

Even after two bad games, James Harden is having career high .TS .653 and APG 11.2 with us.

This guy is elite.

And he will bounce back, I’m sure. He knows he sucked badly against Nets.

[eyeatoma]

I don’t like the fact he goes out and parties after getting his ass kicked. Just not a good look in my opinion.

If you have a bad day, you don't go out for a drink? The dude is human. That's a non story.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[eyeatoma]

The most optimized roster James Harden ever played on:

Notable stats/attributes [per 100 possessions]

Chris Paul: Ballhandler, spacer, guard defender, playmaker - 10.1 3PA, 12.2 assists, 2.6% steal rate

James Harden

Trevor Ariza: 3&D wing, athlete, bomber - 10.0 3PA, 6'8, 36.8% from 3, 2.1% steal

PJ Tucker: 3&D wing, corner specialist - 6.7 3PA, 9.9 rebounds, 37.1% from 3

Clint Capela: Hard screen setter, roller, rim protector, ferocious rebounder

Bench: Eric Gordon (Secondary creator, relentless bomber - 13.9 3PA), Ryan Anderson (relentless bomber - 9.7 3PA), Gerald Green (6'6 athletic wing, bomber from 3 - 15.8 3PA)

The plan was pretty simple, everyone on the court was making the life on James Harden easier, whether it was through defensive intensity, floor spacing, or rim running / athleticism. And besides Ryan Anderson - who lost his playoff minutes to Gerald Green anyways - there were no exploitable defenders on the court.

We're built completely the opposite. Niang and Green are our only two bombers and both have either waning or no athleticism.

Maxey shoots 5.2 3PA/100, Harris 5.0 3PA, Thybulle 4.6 3PA

Not only are we not getting adequate floor spacing from our starting unit, but we're somehow not getting the size, length or defensive switchability...

We're also lacking another true playmaker.

It isn't realistic to expect this roster to be transformed into the 2018 Houston Rockets. We have Joel Embiid and James Harden has to adjust his playstyle to playing alongside a dominant big.

I do think Maxey can be that Eric Gordon type of secondary scorer, but we need another playmaker in that S5 (Mike Conley). The entirety of the halfcourt offense and facilitation cannot run through the the hands of a 33 year old James Harden. It's overly predictable.

And then we simply need more shooting and size. That's non negotiable.

Niang, Maxey, Furkan, Shake, Harris etc are all exploitable defenders and it's dangerous because realistically we're going to have multiple of these guys on the court at all times.

Thybulle is an exploitable offensive player that's going to have to be schemed into effectiveness.

Very interested to see what happens this season, and where we do go from here.

Great analysis. Morey has a lot of work to do this off-season.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[Ferry Avenue]

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/why-sixers-nets-loss-has-charles-barkley-iffy-james-harden?cid=sm_npd_rsn_phi_fb_mn&fbclid=IwAR2jqrgUcGO3-3IsC6iIHKCcKQhxLVA3PkI3xfjIFrUAs7zzAGQ8QyIacJI

[Ferry Avenue]

The most optimized roster James Harden ever played on:

Notable stats/attributes [per 100 possessions]

Chris Paul: Ballhandler, spacer, guard defender, playmaker - 10.1 3PA, 12.2 assists, 2.6% steal rate

James Harden

Trevor Ariza: 3&D wing, athlete, bomber - 10.0 3PA, 6'8, 36.8% from 3, 2.1% steal

PJ Tucker: 3&D wing, corner specialist - 6.7 3PA, 9.9 rebounds, 37.1% from 3

Clint Capela: Hard screen setter, roller, rim protector, ferocious rebounder

Bench: Eric Gordon (Secondary creator, relentless bomber - 13.9 3PA), Ryan Anderson (relentless bomber - 9.7 3PA), Gerald Green (6'6 athletic wing, bomber from 3 - 15.8 3PA)

The plan was pretty simple, everyone on the court was making the life on James Harden easier, whether it was through defensive intensity, floor spacing, or rim running / athleticism. And besides Ryan Anderson - who lost his playoff minutes to Gerald Green anyways - there were no exploitable defenders on the court.

We're built completely the opposite. Niang and Green are our only two bombers and both have either waning or no athleticism.

Maxey shoots 5.2 3PA/100, Harris 5.0 3PA, Thybulle 4.6 3PA

Not only are we not getting adequate floor spacing from our starting unit, but we're somehow not getting the size, length or defensive switchability...

We're also lacking another true playmaker.

It isn't realistic to expect this roster to be transformed into the 2018 Houston Rockets. We have Joel Embiid and James Harden has to adjust his playstyle to playing alongside a dominant big.

I do think Maxey can be that Eric Gordon type of secondary scorer, but we need another playmaker in that S5 (Mike Conley). The entirety of the halfcourt offense and facilitation cannot run through the the hands of a 33 year old James Harden. It's overly predictable.

And then we simply need more shooting and size. That's non negotiable.

Niang, Maxey, Furkan, Shake, Harris etc are all exploitable defenders and it's dangerous because realistically we're going to have multiple of these guys on the court at all times.

Thybulle is an exploitable offensive player that's going to have to be schemed into effectiveness.

Very interested to see what happens this season, and where we do go from here.

That team had the GS Warriors down 3-2 in the conference finals and lost the following two games to lose the series. In those two games Harden was 10 for 24 and 12 for 29 shooting.

He's now four years older, 32 as opposed to the 28 he was then, and of course 33, 34, and 35 are far different pro basketball years for a player than 29, 30, and 31.

So, is this really the player you want to build around?

When he was in his prime and surrounded by an optimal roster, on a team that went 65-17 and led the league in net rating at +8.7, he laid an egg in the conference finals and his team lost the series. He isn't going to do any better or get any closer than that at age 33, 34, or 35.

We just spent years in a misguided attempt to build around Ben Simmons. Building around James Harden at age 32 (and 33 and 34...) would be a similarly misguided attempt.

This is a Sixers fanbase that has been starving for someone to accompany Joel Embiid and get this team over the proverbial hump after watching a disappointing and demoralizing Ben Simmons fail to do so for several years. Just because someone has finally shown up and provided some hope in that regard doesn't mean it's the right person for the job.

This team still needs a centerpiece in my opinion. That player can be neither Embiid nor Harden.