Tobias Harris Trade Thread

mjkvol · Post #1441 » by **mjkvol** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:25 pm

stormi wrote:Ferry Ave fighting harder in here than Tobias does to get over a screen

He's the gift that keeps on giving.

Murray_17 · Post #1442 » by **Murray_17** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:07 pm

Ferry Avenue wrote:
stormi wrote:
mjkvol wrote:

The comical part is that you probably seriously believe that.

I also believe that Ben Simmons, as a career 56.0% from the field is a better scorer than Michael Jordan (49.7%), Kobe Bryant (44.7%) and Kevin Durant (49.6%). He just spares them by not shooting as frequently.

He's certainly a more efficient scorer than them. The question is whether a team can generate the types of shots Simmons takes at Jordan/Bryant/Durant volume. If it can and he plays long enough, he'll most certainly score more points than they did. Again, simple math.

Not to be an ass.

But it's hilarious you're prefacing this by context while making the Tobias point in a vacuum.

That's actually why math in a nutshell is not the be all end all and i work with math.

mjkvol · Post #1443 » by **mjkvol** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:16 pm

Murray_17 wrote:
Ferry Avenue wrote:
stormi wrote:
I also believe that Ben Simmons, as a career 56.0% from the field is a better scorer than Michael Jordan (49.7%), Kobe Bryant (44.7%) and Kevin Durant (49.6%). He just spares them by not shooting as frequently.

He's certainly a more efficient scorer than them. The question is whether a team can generate the types of shots Simmons takes at Jordan/Bryant/Durant volume. If it can and he plays long enough, he'll most certainly score more points than they did. Again, simple math.

Not to be an ass.

But it's hilarious you're prefacing this by context while making the Tobias point in a vacuum.

That's actually why math in a nutshell is not the be all end all and i work with math.

He tends to specialize in all sorts of hilarious points of view and then double and triple down on them.

Ferry Avenue · Post #1444 » by **Ferry Avenue** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:57 pm

Murray_17 wrote:
Ferry Avenue wrote:
stormi wrote:
I also believe that Ben Simmons, as a career 56.0% from the field is a better scorer than Michael Jordan (49.7%), Kobe Bryant (44.7%) and Kevin Durant (49.6%). He just spares them by not shooting as frequently.

He's certainly a more efficient scorer than them. The question is whether a team can generate the types of shots Simmons takes at Jordan/Bryant/Durant volume. If it can and he plays long enough, he'll most certainly score more points than they did. Again, simple math.

Not to be an ass.

But it's hilarious you're prefacing this by context while making the Tobias point in a vacuum.

That's actually why math in a nutshell is not the be all end all and i work with math.

The point is simply that Harden isn't all that efficient, and so his remarking about somebody's FG percentage is noteworthy.

Murray_17 · Post #1445 » by **Murray_17** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:06 pm

Ferry Avenue wrote:The point is simply that Harden isn't all that efficient, and so his remarking about somebody's FG percentage is noteworthy.

Harden is posting a 61 %TS in his 7 games here...He has one year with a %TS below 58% in a 13 year career.

I mean... maths? :-?

Ferry Avenue · Post #1446 » by **Ferry Avenue** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:21 pm

Murray_17 wrote:
Ferry Avenue wrote:The point is simply that Harden isn't all that efficient, and so his remarking about somebody's FG percentage is noteworthy.

Harden is posting a 61 %TS in his 7 games here...He has one year with a %TS below 58% in a 13 year career.

I mean... maths?

Good point. Certainly if you consider Harden's ability to draw fouls and make free throws he's far more efficient than at first glance.

Murray_17 · Post #1447 » by **Murray_17** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:57 pm

Ferry Avenue wrote:Good point. Certainly if you consider Harden's ability to draw fouls and make free throws he's far more efficient than at first glance.

Why would you value efficiency without counting fts?

edit: And even if you take FTs out, because reasons, the fact Harden and Harris have similar Efg% for their careers when Harden isolates like 10 times more and shoots like 2 times more 3s isn't that great for Harris as you seem to argue.

ProcessDoctor · Post #1448 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:02 pm

IND out: Hield
IND in: Barnes

PHI out: Harris, 2023 FRP
PHI in: Hield, Holmes

SAC out: Barnes, Holmes
SAC in: Harris, 2023 PHI FRP

Sign Covington with MLE.

Maxey(34)/Harden(14)
Harden(20)/Hield(28)
Thybulle(28)/Green(20)
Covington(28)/Niang(20)
Embiid(32)/Holmes(16)

Maxey/Milton/Springer
Harden/Hield/Joe
Thybulle/Green/Korkmaz
Covington/Niang/Reed
Embiid/Holmes/Bassey

76ciology · Post #1449 » by **76ciology** » Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:59 am

Read on Twitter

Ferry Avenue · Post #1450 » by **Ferry Avenue** » Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:00 am

76ciology wrote:

Read on Twitter

I still have trouble determining what made Tobias Harris such a perfect fit with the Simmons/Butler Sixers but supposedly such a poor fit with the Harden Sixers.

76ciology · Post #1451 » by **76ciology** » Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:10 am

Since Harden trade, Tobias is highest with on/off NetRtg at +23 NetRtg (+11 on and -12 off), harden +14 and Embiid at +7.

76ciology · Post #1452 » by **76ciology** » Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:13 am

Ferry Avenue wrote:
76ciology wrote:

Read on Twitter

I still have trouble determining what made Tobias Harris such a perfect fit with the Simmons/Butler Sixers but supposedly such a poor fit with the Harden Sixers.

I think it’s also because Simmons and Jimmy are nowhere as good as scorers compared to Maxey and Harden. And with Maxey and Harden, there’s less value with Tobi’s mediocre shot creation than with Simmons and Jimmy.

But I think Tobi is adjusting well with his role. Tobi has the highest on/off NetRtg since Harden trade.

Ferry Avenue · Post #1453 » by **Ferry Avenue** » Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:18 am

76ciology wrote:
Ferry Avenue wrote:
76ciology wrote:

Read on Twitter

I still have trouble determining what made Tobias Harris such a perfect fit with the Simmons/Butler Sixers but supposedly such a poor fit with the Harden Sixers.

I think it’s also because Simmons and Jimmy are nowhere as good as scorers compared to Maxey and Harden. And with Maxey and Harden, there’s less value with Tobi’s mediocre shot creation than with Simmons and Jimmy.

But I think Tobi is adjusting well with his role. Tobi has the highest on/off NetRtg since Harden trade.

Right, but who are you going to get at PF who's better at shot creation? We're talking about the fit of a PF here.

76ciology · Post #1454 » by **76ciology** » Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:16 pm

Ferry Avenue wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Ferry Avenue wrote:I still have trouble determining what made Tobias Harris such a perfect fit with the Simmons/Butler Sixers but supposedly such a poor fit with the Harden Sixers.

I think it’s also because Simmons and Jimmy are nowhere as good as scorers compared to Maxey and Harden. And with Maxey and Harden, there’s less value with Tobi’s mediocre shot creation than with Simmons and Jimmy.

But I think Tobi is adjusting well with his role. Tobi has the highest on/off NetRtg since Harden trade.

Right, but who are you going to get at PF who's better at shot creation? We're talking about the fit of a PF here.

I dont think there’s much need for shot creation at PF right now on this team. We just need someone who has size, play defense, rebound and possibly catch lobs or spot up for 3s, while it isnt the same case with Ben and Jimmy back then

LeonJordanJr24 · Post #1455 » by **LeonJordanJr24** » Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:17 pm

John Collins for Tobias has to happen this summer .

John Collins checks all the boxes of what we need currently.

Negrodamus · Post #1456 » by **Negrodamus** » Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:19 pm

LeonJordanJr24 wrote:John Collins for Tobias has to happen this summer .

John Collins checks all the boxes of what we need currently.

Hawks say no.

mjkvol · Post #1457 » by **mjkvol** » Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:34 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
LeonJordanJr24 wrote:John Collins for Tobias has to happen this summer .

John Collins checks all the boxes of what we need currently.

Hawks say no.

If they're smart.

Ferry Avenue · Post #1458 » by **Ferry Avenue** » Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:06 am

Tobias Harris is working on two games in a row now where his fourth-quarter clutch play -- both with and without Embiid/Harden -- has gone a long way toward winning this team games during an important part of the season.

When Harris comes as Mark Jackson said against the Lakers "locked and loaded and aggressive offensively," I don't think there's any problem with him being on this team, even at his salary. Not every player's salary to productivity ratio is going to be spot on.

When Harris is a clutch scoring option like he has been the past two games, and you couple that with Embiid/Harden/Maxey, this team is awfully tough to defend.

blargh · Post #1459 » by **blargh** » Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:42 pm

He’s also adequately covering a huge gaping hole in our ability to defend big wings at the moment. If he was out, I honestly don’t know what we would do against some teams.

He definitely doesn’t deserve the hate he gets sometimes around here. I’d still prefer a true 3-D wing stopper replacing him in the starting lineup, but we should cheer him while he’s here.

stormi · Post #1460 » by **stormi** » Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:31 pm

LeonJordanJr24 wrote:John Collins for Tobias has to happen this summer .

John Collins checks all the boxes of what we need currently.

Doesn't shoot the ball on high enough volume. Actually has a pretty similar 3PAr to Tobias Harris per 100 possessions. I think our ideal and attainable 4 to me is Otto Porter Jr. Easily the best shooter and wing defender of the trio. Collins does provide the vertical spacing and screen setting which I'm sure Harden would benefit from since he isn't an iso all game long demon anymore.