ImageImageImage

Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4

Moderators: KingDavid, QUIZ, heat4life, MettaWorldPanda, Wiltside, IggieCC, BFRESH44

AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,484
And1: 32,250
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#121 » by AirP. » Fri Apr 1, 2022 1:47 pm

somerandomdude wrote:To the Spo supporters:

Instead of laughing at us and pretending you know better, try engaging in discussion, and be ready to explain the dumb crap that Spo does, like creating a defensive scheme that calls for Lowry to switch on to Jokic.

"Lol"

Image

Has anyone who hated what Spoelstra does defensively ever thought about what the positives could be, that would be an excellent place to start vs this long time coach is just doing "dumb crap". This switching defense has really come to life since the 3 ball era so I'd have to expect part of the reason for this is to tempt team to go for 2 vs 3s.

None of us have the analytics that Spoelstra has available to him because there are a ton of numbers I'd be very interested in seeing for we all understand (and I suspect Spoelstra also understands) that a big has a huge advantage at scoring near the basket vs a small and in offensive rebounding, so we have to expect that there are other reasons to sometimes allow that to happen. We do know that Spoelstra does try to minimize this by sending in double teams from time to time.

On a guard switched onto a 5 in the low post there's a few different numbers that would be very interesting to see since clearly we can see that a big with a clean pass will have a huge advantage over a smaller player.
- Does switching everything stop some of the easy pass and scores that non switch sometimes produces with a good screen or good read for a higher percentage shot?
- How often does a team miss or lose the ball in that big vs small when a 2nd defender comes to help? I think Spoelstra actually allows some clean passes in to catch the other team off guard from time to time bringing a 2nd defender.
- Do teams throw the ball to the big more or less knowing a 2nd defender may help out even though they have a mismatch.
- An interesting thought, does Spoelstra want teams hunting for 2s vs 3s? Does this actually make teams/players concentrate on passing inside vs concentrate on getting a 3pt shot? In 2 of the last 3 seasons Miami's opponents have been near the bottom of teams for 3pt %.
- What is the points per possession from when a team tries to pass the ball to a mismatch near the basket when you calculate it from the passer to ending up in the basket. With a 2nd defender possibly coming over sometimes teams don't make that pass, sometimes it's tipped or even over thrown which we see from time to time. It would be really interesting to see those numbers vs when teams don't switch or if a bigger player is guarding the low post.

Just know there are pluses and minuses for every type of defense, yes there are issues with Miami switching but there are positives also. Although Lowry is small he's not nearly as helpless fighting a big in the low post as a regular PG would be which might be why Miami overpaid to get him in Miami, maybe in the future Miami may invest in bigger or better low post guards which might be why Miami was interested in Spencer Dinwiddie even with him coming off a horrible injury, outside of his stats you'd also have a 6'5'' PG in the low post defending bigs.
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#122 » by harlem_ball » Fri Apr 1, 2022 4:09 pm

One win against the Celtics and the fans have disregarded all of this season's discrepancies. Lol.

Fine. It was a great win.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,484
And1: 32,250
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#123 » by AirP. » Fri Apr 1, 2022 4:59 pm

harlem_ball wrote:One win against the Celtics and the fans have disregarded all of this season's discrepancies. Lol.

Fine. It was a great win.

All teams have issues but there's some sort of success that has been made to be in 1st place this late in the season with Bam, Butler and Lowry missing so many games.

Just looking back 3 years ago this franchise was was building around Winslow, Richardson, Whiteside, Bam and Dragic was 32. 2 mid 1st round picks later this franchise is in 1st place late in the season. Not many teams have this much success for this long without having to be horrific for a few seasons.
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#124 » by harlem_ball » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:03 pm

AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:One win against the Celtics and the fans have disregarded all of this season's discrepancies. Lol.

Fine. It was a great win.

All teams have issues but there's some sort of success that has been made to be in 1st place this late in the season with Bam, Butler and Lowry missing so many games.

Just looking back 3 years ago this franchise was was building around Winslow, Richardson, Whiteside, Bam and Dragic was 32. 2 mid 1st round picks later this franchise is in 1st place late in the season. Not many teams have this much success for this long without having to be horrific for a few seasons.


Yea, thanks to Big Yurt.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,484
And1: 32,250
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#125 » by AirP. » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:16 pm

harlem_ball wrote:
AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:One win against the Celtics and the fans have disregarded all of this season's discrepancies. Lol.

Fine. It was a great win.

All teams have issues but there's some sort of success that has been made to be in 1st place this late in the season with Bam, Butler and Lowry missing so many games.

Just looking back 3 years ago this franchise was was building around Winslow, Richardson, Whiteside, Bam and Dragic was 32. 2 mid 1st round picks later this franchise is in 1st place late in the season. Not many teams have this much success for this long without having to be horrific for a few seasons.


Yea, thanks to Big Yurt.

That must be it even though I think any decent 7 footer could have done the same thing since we're seeing a vet minimum guy in Dedmon put up nearly the same rate of stats but he doesn't have the stamina at his age.

Per36..
Yurtseven 15.8 pts, 15.4 reb, .557 TS% +10(ortg-drtg)
Dedmon 14.1 pts, 13.2 reb .631 TS% +13(ortg-drtg)

Luckily Alex Len wasn't on the roster in Yurtseven's place, people would be saying to give him the max.

It's situational for this team, since it's built around small ball bigs on the roster have a real advantage when on the court, there's usually only 1 other big on the court to battle for rebounds against which does hurt Bam since his size is a limitation.
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#126 » by harlem_ball » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:20 pm

AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
AirP. wrote:All teams have issues but there's some sort of success that has been made to be in 1st place this late in the season with Bam, Butler and Lowry missing so many games.

Just looking back 3 years ago this franchise was was building around Winslow, Richardson, Whiteside, Bam and Dragic was 32. 2 mid 1st round picks later this franchise is in 1st place late in the season. Not many teams have this much success for this long without having to be horrific for a few seasons.


Yea, thanks to Big Yurt.

That must be it even though I think any decent 7 footer could have done the same thing since we're seeing a vet minimum guy in Dedmon put up nearly the same rate of stats but he doesn't have the stamina at his age.

Per36..
Yurtseven 15.8 pts, 15.4 reb, .557 TS% +10(ortg-drtg)
Dedmon 14.1 pts, 13.2 reb .631 TS% +13(ortg-drtg)

Luckily Alex Len wasn't on the roster in Yurtseven's place, people would be saying to give him the max.

It's situational for this team, since it's built around small ball bigs on the roster have a real advantage when on the court, there's usually only 1 other big on the court to battle for rebounds against which does hurt Bam since his size is a limitation.


Maybe but Deadmon doesn't have Yurtsevens passing or rebounding skills and is shorter. I don't know why the fans here are so disturbed to give Yurtseven credit but sure maybe Steven Adams would have averaged 50. Point is, we were winning and it worked. What's so complicated to understand about this? Lol

Why did Spo shelve this dimension of the Heat!?

This is YURTGATE.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,484
And1: 32,250
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#127 » by AirP. » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:26 pm

harlem_ball wrote:
AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
Yea, thanks to Big Yurt.

That must be it even though I think any decent 7 footer could have done the same thing since we're seeing a vet minimum guy in Dedmon put up nearly the same rate of stats but he doesn't have the stamina at his age.

Per36..
Yurtseven 15.8 pts, 15.4 reb, .557 TS% +10(ortg-drtg)
Dedmon 14.1 pts, 13.2 reb .631 TS% +13(ortg-drtg)

Luckily Alex Len wasn't on the roster in Yurtseven's place, people would be saying to give him the max.

It's situational for this team, since it's built around small ball bigs on the roster have a real advantage when on the court, there's usually only 1 other big on the court to battle for rebounds against which does hurt Bam since his size is a limitation.


Maybe. I don't know why the fans here are so disturbed to give Yurtseven credit but sure maybe Steven Adams would have averaged 50. Point is, we were winning and it worked. What's so complicated to understand about this? Lol

Why did Spo shelve this dimension of the Heat!?

This is YURTGATE.

Why can't he just be a solid center in a great situation? Much like Robinson and Strus have been able to put up stats because of the situation they're in?

I'm not against moving Bam to bring another talented scorer to the team and going with traditional bigs like Yurtseven or Dedmon(who no longer can handle a lot of minutes) and ditching switching so much.
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#128 » by harlem_ball » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:28 pm

AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
AirP. wrote:That must be it even though I think any decent 7 footer could have done the same thing since we're seeing a vet minimum guy in Dedmon put up nearly the same rate of stats but he doesn't have the stamina at his age.

Per36..
Yurtseven 15.8 pts, 15.4 reb, .557 TS% +10(ortg-drtg)
Dedmon 14.1 pts, 13.2 reb .631 TS% +13(ortg-drtg)

Luckily Alex Len wasn't on the roster in Yurtseven's place, people would be saying to give him the max.

It's situational for this team, since it's built around small ball bigs on the roster have a real advantage when on the court, there's usually only 1 other big on the court to battle for rebounds against which does hurt Bam since his size is a limitation.


Maybe. I don't know why the fans here are so disturbed to give Yurtseven credit but sure maybe Steven Adams would have averaged 50. Point is, we were winning and it worked. What's so complicated to understand about this? Lol

Why did Spo shelve this dimension of the Heat!?

This is YURTGATE.

Why can't he just be a solid center in a great situation? Much like Robinson and Strus have been able to put up stats because of the situation they're in?


The difference being that Robinson and Strus actually play.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,484
And1: 32,250
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#129 » by AirP. » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:30 pm

harlem_ball wrote:
AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
Maybe. I don't know why the fans here are so disturbed to give Yurtseven credit but sure maybe Steven Adams would have averaged 50. Point is, we were winning and it worked. What's so complicated to understand about this? Lol

Why did Spo shelve this dimension of the Heat!?

This is YURTGATE.

Why can't he just be a solid center in a great situation? Much like Robinson and Strus have been able to put up stats because of the situation they're in?


The difference being that Robinson and Strus actually play.

Not all that much their rookie years. I expect to see a lot more Yurtseven next year, at worst I expect him to be the backup 4 if he's not packaged in a trade. Also, I'm one of those guys who was ready to let Robinson walk for nothing because you're just replacing a 3pt shooter, you can find those pretty easily these days and for way cheaper then what they signed Robinson for.
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#130 » by harlem_ball » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:33 pm

AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
AirP. wrote:Why can't he just be a solid center in a great situation? Much like Robinson and Strus have been able to put up stats because of the situation they're in?


The difference being that Robinson and Strus actually play.

Not all that much their rookie years.


Heat need Yurt now. Pedantic reasoning and past processes are irrelevant. Systematic thinking over practical need? Flawed thinking.

"Oh, i need to poop but i can't poop until tomorrow because its not my time yet."

Spobotto the great.
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#131 » by harlem_ball » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:35 pm

Yurt is better than Deadmon I'll just come out and say it. Yurt is a raw Vlade Divac.

Deadmon is an energizer mobile center with fumbleitis.

I like Deadmon but in limited minutes. Deadmons more like Bam. Yurt is a proper center.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,484
And1: 32,250
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#132 » by AirP. » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:37 pm

harlem_ball wrote:
AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
The difference being that Robinson and Strus actually play.

Not all that much their rookie years.


Heat need Yurt now. Pedantic reasoning and past processes are irrelevant. Systematic thinking over practical need? Flawed thinking.

"Oh, i need to poop but i can't poop until tomorrow because its not my time yet."

Spobotto the great.

What? It's basically you have a vet backup 5 and a rookie backup 5 doing nearly the same rate of stats, if you're trying to win you go with the vet, if you're looking to build for the future you go with the rookie, it's pretty simple.
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#133 » by harlem_ball » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:40 pm

AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
AirP. wrote:Not all that much their rookie years.


Heat need Yurt now. Pedantic reasoning and past processes are irrelevant. Systematic thinking over practical need? Flawed thinking.

"Oh, i need to poop but i can't poop until tomorrow because its not my time yet."

Spobotto the great.

What? It's basically you have a vet backup 5 and a rookie backup 5 doing nearly the same rate of stats, if you're trying to win you go with the vet, if you're looking to build for the future you go with the rookie, it's pretty simple.


Same rate of stats? Yurt is a better player and proved it with actual stats and not fantasy projections. He is needed.
al bondiga
Veteran
Posts: 2,724
And1: 3,235
Joined: Oct 18, 2018

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#134 » by al bondiga » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:48 pm

Man forget about yurt, jb, Lowry, Duncan whoever!! spo has generally has done a good job and there is no doubt a lot of teams pick him up if we drop him... but I'm basically referring to the BAM and Herro development... as far as I see those are the only two guys that can carry us to a championship... we got lucky in getting them or perhaps it was Riley wisdom... bam is underdeveloped and Herro also... not by a lot, but we all agree because it's visible ...they should be doing a lot better
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,484
And1: 32,250
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#135 » by AirP. » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:51 pm

harlem_ball wrote:
AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
Heat need Yurt now. Pedantic reasoning and past processes are irrelevant. Systematic thinking over practical need? Flawed thinking.

"Oh, i need to poop but i can't poop until tomorrow because its not my time yet."

Spobotto the great.

What? It's basically you have a vet backup 5 and a rookie backup 5 doing nearly the same rate of stats, if you're trying to win you go with the vet, if you're looking to build for the future you go with the rookie, it's pretty simple.


Same rate of stats? Yurt is a better player and proved it with actual stats and not fantasy projections. He is needed.

Projections? PER36 is just a way to look at the CURRENT rate of stats they put up, TS%, ORTG and DRTG is based off current stats too but continue with your bias and don't look at the pros and cons of each player or situation.

Does Yurtseven have a much brighter future then Dedmon, absolutely but currently Dedmon is the better choice for backup 5.
AirP.
RealGM
Posts: 37,484
And1: 32,250
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#136 » by AirP. » Fri Apr 1, 2022 5:54 pm

al bondiga wrote:Man forget about yurt, jb, Lowry, Duncan whoever!! spo has generally has done a good job and there is no doubt a lot of teams pick him up if we drop him... but I'm basically referring to the BAM and Herro development... as far as I see those are the only two guys that can carry us to a championship... we got lucky in getting them or perhaps it was Riley wisdom... bam is underdeveloped and Herro also... not by a lot, but we all agree because it's visible ...they should be doing a lot better

Players get better on their own, Spoelstra had very little to do with Bam and Herro's development. From what I understand he did have a huge hand in Robinson's development and that he may have a personal interest in seeing Robinson succeed which might be why he's basically held Strus back so much this year.
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#137 » by harlem_ball » Fri Apr 1, 2022 6:09 pm

AirP. wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:
AirP. wrote:What? It's basically you have a vet backup 5 and a rookie backup 5 doing nearly the same rate of stats, if you're trying to win you go with the vet, if you're looking to build for the future you go with the rookie, it's pretty simple.


Same rate of stats? Yurt is a better player and proved it with actual stats and not fantasy projections. He is needed.

Projections? PER36 is just a way to look at the CURRENT rate of stats they put up, TS%, ORTG and DRTG is based off current stats too but continue with your bias and don't look at the pros and cons of each player or situation.

Does Yurtseven have a much brighter future then Dedmon, absolutely but currently Dedmon is the better choice for backup 5.


Projections are not actual stats. They are fantasy. Case closed. Why is it so hard to appreciate what Yurtseven did this year? Spo's insecurities.
harlem_ball
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,513
And1: 4,545
Joined: Sep 27, 2021

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#138 » by harlem_ball » Fri Apr 1, 2022 6:12 pm

Jokic was a second rounder and is now in perennial mvp contention.

Imagine sitting Jokic and making him wait. Lol. Thats what Spo would do, I suspect.

You gotta play guys, especially in the regular season.
greg4012
General Manager
Posts: 8,056
And1: 12,380
Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#139 » by greg4012 » Fri Apr 1, 2022 6:53 pm

I promise playing Yurt or not this postseason will not be the difference between ultimate success or failure.

I'm excited for him to continue to grow with the Heat and I expect a consistent role next season.
User avatar
RexBoyWonder
RealGM
Posts: 17,920
And1: 35,813
Joined: Mar 03, 2011

Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#140 » by RexBoyWonder » Fri Apr 1, 2022 6:59 pm

AirP. wrote:Why can't he just be a solid center in a great situation? Much like Robinson and Strus have been able to put up stats because of the situation they're in?

I'm not against moving Bam to bring another talented scorer to the team and going with traditional bigs like Yurtseven or Dedmon(who no longer can handle a lot of minutes) and ditching switching so much.

just curious - would you rather have :

Lowry
Herro
Jimmy
Tucker
Bam

Or

Lowry
Herro
Jimmy
Ingram
Yurt

As the starting 5 going forward?

I'm asking because iv'e got to admit - I'm a traditionalist at heat in terms of lineups.

I like my Center at 7'0, monstrous wingspan, great rebounder/shot blocker. That's not Bam.

I like my PF to be a great shooter/scorer with length and shot creation ability, That's not PJ.

Lowry/Herro/Jimmy are much closer to my ideal for their positions, they're closer to the old school prototypical PG/SG/SF.
Chalm Downs wrote:his nickname is boywonder ffs

Return to Miami Heat