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Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#521 » by carnageta » Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:59 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
carnageta wrote:Meh. It's super tough to compare Trae Young - a point guard - to Bam Adebayo - a center. I don't have any problems with people ranking Trae higher - we're talking about a guy who averages 28 and 10 on high efficiency. I'd even take Trae Young over Bradley Beal, and I know many on this sub are mighty high on Beal..

Guards to Center comparisons have never made much sense to me. Different positions. Different roles. Different systems.


Imagine them together :o


:o :o :o

That would be deadly.

Trae in Miami's system would probably be at least an average defender.. as long as Spo doesn't have him playing the power-forward position :lol:
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#522 » by oreon » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:34 pm

carnageta wrote:Meh. It's super tough to compare Trae Young - a point guard - to Bam Adebayo - a center. I don't have any problems with people ranking Trae higher - we're talking about a guy who averages 28 and 10 on high efficiency. I'd even take Trae Young over Bradley Beal, and I know many on this sub are mighty high on Beal..

Guards to Center comparisons have never made much sense to me. Different positions. Different roles. Different systems.


But we can compare responsibilities. Trae is one of the few players where the whole offense revolves around them, pretty much for most possessions. They are the team's main shot maker, creater and closer. The guys who are doing that right are Luka, Jokic, Embiid (even though doesn't average as high assets most of the actions offensively run through Embiid) and a maybe one or two that I missed.

Tho as you said its hard to compare guards vs bigs, but when you are ranking them in terms of tiers you can't have Bam in the same tier as Trae. Bam at this moment can't carry your entire offense for a full season
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#523 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:34 pm

carnageta wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
carnageta wrote:Meh. It's super tough to compare Trae Young - a point guard - to Bam Adebayo - a center. I don't have any problems with people ranking Trae higher - we're talking about a guy who averages 28 and 10 on high efficiency. I'd even take Trae Young over Bradley Beal, and I know many on this sub are mighty high on Beal..

Guards to Center comparisons have never made much sense to me. Different positions. Different roles. Different systems.


Imagine them together :o


:o :o :o

That would be deadly.

Trae in Miami's system would probably be at least an average defender.. as long as Spo doesn't have him playing the power-forward position :lol:


Spo: “is that a challenge?!” :lol:
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#524 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:35 pm

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Dipogate is real, Free Dipo!!!
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#525 » by carnageta » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:45 pm

oreon wrote:
carnageta wrote:Meh. It's super tough to compare Trae Young - a point guard - to Bam Adebayo - a center. I don't have any problems with people ranking Trae higher - we're talking about a guy who averages 28 and 10 on high efficiency. I'd even take Trae Young over Bradley Beal, and I know many on this sub are mighty high on Beal..

Guards to Center comparisons have never made much sense to me. Different positions. Different roles. Different systems.


But we can compare responsibilities. Trae is one of the few players where the whole offense revolves around them, pretty much for most possessions. They are the team's main shot maker, creater and closer. The guys who are doing that right are Luka, Jokic, Embiid (even though doesn't average as high assets most of the actions offensively run through Embiid) and a maybe one or two that I missed.

Tho as you said its hard to compare guards vs bigs, but when you are ranking them in terms of tiers you can't have Bam in the same tier as Trae. Bam at this moment can't carry your entire offense for a full season


Agreed. I have Trae higher for sure.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#526 » by DayofMourning » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:52 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
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Unfuxkingreal……

Dipogate is real, Free Dipo!!!


So playoff lineup is Yurt, Highsmith, Duncan, Mulder and Dipo?
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#527 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:52 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#528 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:53 pm

Basically we’re going to have to face adversity to the point a lineup change is needed or 1 of Gabe/Duncan just has to be unplayable and then we’ll get Dipo. Just hope it’s not too late at that point. Annoying to me that we’re not maximizing our talent
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#529 » by goodboys lats » Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:33 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Read on Twitter


Unfuxkingreal……

Dipogate is real, Free Dipo!!!


So playoff lineup is Yurt, Highsmith, Duncan, Mulder and Dipo?


I'm still holding out for the Haslem triple double.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#530 » by oreon » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:09 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Basically we’re going to have to face adversity to the point a lineup change is needed or 1 of Gabe/Duncan just has to be unplayable and then we’ll get Dipo. Just hope it’s not too late at that point. Annoying to me that we’re not maximizing our talent


Dipo had some bad games and the team was struggling. Spo went back his regular rotation and the team played better. In no way Dipo was the issue. But there was a reason he was getting DNPs. I don't know if Dipo putting up 40 in a meaningless game against Orlando changes anything.
The fact is there is a rotation that we have seen that has worked for a majority of the season. There just wasn't enough time to give Dipo a run and be sure you can get the chemistry right in with 2nd unit. Should he play ? I dunno. For me it depends on opponent. If we are playing Charlotte 1st round then we can afford to mess around and see if we integrate Dipo. If we are playing Hawks, I'm a no. The Hawks if they get hot can knock out of the 1st round.
I know he has a higher ceiling than Gabe but its about the team chemistry. And sadly he came back too late to establish proper chemistry with the 2nd unit. And if Herro & Butler are scoring then you don't need Dipo as much. But for whatever if reason if one of those 2 struggles in round 1, then it makes sense to give Dipo another run. But there's no Dipogate. Majority of the games he's been back he hasn't been good. There's more of a case for Yurtgate then Dipogate
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#531 » by AirP. » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:14 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Basically we’re going to have to face adversity to the point a lineup change is needed or 1 of Gabe/Duncan just has to be unplayable and then we’ll get Dipo. Just hope it’s not too late at that point. Annoying to me that we’re not maximizing our talent

I've been wanting Oladipo for a while but Miami just held him back way too long to integrate him into the rotation at this time. The issue with a player in Oladipo's situation is him possibly wanting to make a strong impression as a scorer since he's a FA after the season vs doing what's best for the team that may have held him out too long and then couldn't/wouldn't find a place for him in their current rotation. Oladipo's latest injury cost him 15-25 million this year alone that he'll never make up, he's got to be impressive as a main player if on the court in the playoffs, not look like a good role player. It's a position that Miami/Spoelstra have put themselves in with how they handled Oladipo and possibly over valued a player like Gabe.

Giving a guy only 30 days to get on the court and start playing basketball and integrate into the rotation of a team wanting to compete for a championship wasn't a great idea, either he should have came back earlier or he should have just played the last few games of the season to prove he's healthy.

Miami may have just pushed out a talented 2-way player who can score and is a FA after this season for Gabe Vincent... who is signed for next year. Passing over Vincent for a player with a much higher upside should have been decided a long time ago, not this maybe, maybe not situation the last couple weeks of the season. Someone in the Miami organization should have been following Oladipo's progress and personal practices to know how close he was to being good.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#532 » by greg4012 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:53 pm

AirP. wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Basically we’re going to have to face adversity to the point a lineup change is needed or 1 of Gabe/Duncan just has to be unplayable and then we’ll get Dipo. Just hope it’s not too late at that point. Annoying to me that we’re not maximizing our talent

I've been wanting Oladipo for a while but Miami just held him back way too long to integrate him into the rotation at this time. The issue with a player in Oladipo's situation is him possibly wanting to make a strong impression as a scorer since he's a FA after the season vs doing what's best for the team that may have held him out too long and then couldn't/wouldn't find a place for him in their current rotation. Oladipo's latest injury cost him 15-25 million this year alone that he'll never make up, he's got to be impressive as a main player if on the court in the playoffs, not look like a good role player. It's a position that Miami/Spoelstra have put themselves in with how they handled Oladipo and possibly over valued a player like Gabe.

Giving a guy only 30 days to get on the court and start playing basketball and integrate into the rotation of a team wanting to compete for a championship wasn't a great idea, either he should have came back earlier or he should have just played the last few games of the season to prove he's healthy.

Miami may have just pushed out a talented 2-way player who can score and is a FA after this season for Gabe Vincent... who is signed for next year. Passing over Vincent for a player with a much higher upside should have been decided a long time ago, not this maybe, maybe not situation the last couple weeks of the season. Someone in the Miami organization should have been following Oladipo's progress and personal practices to know how close he was to being good.


Or kept his value depressed for their benefit.

I honestly don't know
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#533 » by AirP. » Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:20 pm

greg4012 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Basically we’re going to have to face adversity to the point a lineup change is needed or 1 of Gabe/Duncan just has to be unplayable and then we’ll get Dipo. Just hope it’s not too late at that point. Annoying to me that we’re not maximizing our talent

I've been wanting Oladipo for a while but Miami just held him back way too long to integrate him into the rotation at this time. The issue with a player in Oladipo's situation is him possibly wanting to make a strong impression as a scorer since he's a FA after the season vs doing what's best for the team that may have held him out too long and then couldn't/wouldn't find a place for him in their current rotation. Oladipo's latest injury cost him 15-25 million this year alone that he'll never make up, he's got to be impressive as a main player if on the court in the playoffs, not look like a good role player. It's a position that Miami/Spoelstra have put themselves in with how they handled Oladipo and possibly over valued a player like Gabe.

Giving a guy only 30 days to get on the court and start playing basketball and integrate into the rotation of a team wanting to compete for a championship wasn't a great idea, either he should have came back earlier or he should have just played the last few games of the season to prove he's healthy.

Miami may have just pushed out a talented 2-way player who can score and is a FA after this season for Gabe Vincent... who is signed for next year. Passing over Vincent for a player with a much higher upside should have been decided a long time ago, not this maybe, maybe not situation the last couple weeks of the season. Someone in the Miami organization should have been following Oladipo's progress and personal practices to know how close he was to being good.


Or kept his value depressed for their benefit.

I honestly don't know

That's possible, I think this year was their building year and the next 2 years should be their peak years. Miami was hamstrung by the hard cap with the Lowry trade, possibly paid Robinson to retain an asset to move this summer and had Oladipo out most of the year. Oladipo is nearly 30, this is probably his last chance at getting a big contract so Miami may need to pay him to retain him. If I'm Oladipo, I'd see it as a slap in the face if Miami doesn't offer more then they gave Robinson... that Robinson contract was just a bad move unless it was only kept to have a sizable contract to move this summer while going into the tax the next 2-3 years.

It really maybe as simple of a decision as do you let Oladipo walk for nothing and stick with Herro or do you resign Oladipo and package Herro, Robinson, some more filler and draft and trade a player's rights this summer to get another high level player into Miami? I feel that Riley at 77 and Butler at 32 have the same window to try to win a championship.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#534 » by IceColdCubano » Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:24 pm

greg4012 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
3ammy3uck3ts wrote:Basically we’re going to have to face adversity to the point a lineup change is needed or 1 of Gabe/Duncan just has to be unplayable and then we’ll get Dipo. Just hope it’s not too late at that point. Annoying to me that we’re not maximizing our talent

I've been wanting Oladipo for a while but Miami just held him back way too long to integrate him into the rotation at this time. The issue with a player in Oladipo's situation is him possibly wanting to make a strong impression as a scorer since he's a FA after the season vs doing what's best for the team that may have held him out too long and then couldn't/wouldn't find a place for him in their current rotation. Oladipo's latest injury cost him 15-25 million this year alone that he'll never make up, he's got to be impressive as a main player if on the court in the playoffs, not look like a good role player. It's a position that Miami/Spoelstra have put themselves in with how they handled Oladipo and possibly over valued a player like Gabe.

Giving a guy only 30 days to get on the court and start playing basketball and integrate into the rotation of a team wanting to compete for a championship wasn't a great idea, either he should have came back earlier or he should have just played the last few games of the season to prove he's healthy.

Miami may have just pushed out a talented 2-way player who can score and is a FA after this season for Gabe Vincent... who is signed for next year. Passing over Vincent for a player with a much higher upside should have been decided a long time ago, not this maybe, maybe not situation the last couple weeks of the season. Someone in the Miami organization should have been following Oladipo's progress and personal practices to know how close he was to being good.


Or kept his value depressed for their benefit.

I honestly don't know

No I don't think they did.

They played it safe, and brought him in 1 month too late to integrate him into the offense. We can argue one way or another what should have been the right way to go about it, but here we are.

He is a living, breathing, human being with a consciousness. He isn't an inanimate object like a car you can keep him looking rusty on the outside so people won't take him from you. If Dipo walks into a scheduled work out next off season with whomever invites him and he crushes it, he is getting paid. So no they didn't depress his value.

If anything shutting him down during those couple of weeks helped his cause since he was playing absolutely terribly. He needs the ball in his hands, we will see how we integrate him in the offense next off-season if he is still here. Dipo has never looked good playing off the ball either, at least not that I can remember in either Orlando or Indiana. I don't know if the playoffs is the place to do this either.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#535 » by RexBoyWonder » Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:58 am

I think what's being ignored in the Dipo debate is the alternatives and his defense.

I agree that his fit with Jimmy and Lowry looked iffy. That makes sense. They all needed the ball to be effictive on offense.

But now that Duncan is coming off the bench, why not stagger Jimmy's and Dipo's minutes and have 1 of them on the court at all times?

Dipo is an experienced 2 way player. His defense is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Duncans. You let him play next to Herro as the secondary creator, and Bam doesn't really needs/wants the ball to create much.

When Jimmy and Lowry rest - It's Herro/Dipo time. You play them with Struss/Bam/Martin and that lineup can work on both sides. It takes pressure off of Herro to be the only facilitator when Jimmy is out. It upgrades the defense. And you still have good enough spacing.


Basically the point is - Dipo is a very good defender. He can defend 1-3 probably as well as anyone as the roster. He's savvy. He looked good physically lately.

I rather roll with him in the bench lineups. The upside is there, and the fit can be worked out with the right rotations.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#536 » by twix2500 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:00 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:I think what's being ignored in the Dipo debate is the alternatives and his defense.

I agree that his fit with Jimmy and Lowry looked iffy. That makes sense. They all needed the ball to be effictive on offense.

But now that Duncan is coming off the bench, why not stagger Jimmy's and Dipo's minutes and have 1 of them on the court at all times?

Dipo is an experienced 2 way player. His defense is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Duncans. You let him play next to Herro as the secondary creator, and Bam doesn't really needs/wants the ball to create much.

When Jimmy and Lowry rest - It's Herro/Dipo time. You play them with Struss/Bam/Martin and that lineup can work on both sides. It takes pressure off of Herro to be the only facilitator when Jimmy is out. It upgrades the defense. And you still have good enough spacing.


Basically the point is - Dipo is a very good defender. He can defend 1-3 probably as well as anyone as the roster. He's savvy. He looked good physically lately.

I rather roll with him in the bench lineups. The upside is there, and the fit can be worked out with the right rotations.
Early on, Spo ran a lineup of Lowry-Dipo-Herro-Robinson-Dedmon

Recently Spo wants 2 three point specialist in the floor at all times.

And it looks likes in the clutch Martin will replace the 3 point shooter

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#537 » by Kobewade11 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:11 pm

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
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Unfuxkingreal……

Dipogate is real, Free Dipo!!!

All it takes is one guy getting in foul trouble or hunted on defense for this plan to go up in smoke. I wouldnt sweat it.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#538 » by greg4012 » Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:23 pm

IceColdCubano wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
AirP. wrote:I've been wanting Oladipo for a while but Miami just held him back way too long to integrate him into the rotation at this time. The issue with a player in Oladipo's situation is him possibly wanting to make a strong impression as a scorer since he's a FA after the season vs doing what's best for the team that may have held him out too long and then couldn't/wouldn't find a place for him in their current rotation. Oladipo's latest injury cost him 15-25 million this year alone that he'll never make up, he's got to be impressive as a main player if on the court in the playoffs, not look like a good role player. It's a position that Miami/Spoelstra have put themselves in with how they handled Oladipo and possibly over valued a player like Gabe.

Giving a guy only 30 days to get on the court and start playing basketball and integrate into the rotation of a team wanting to compete for a championship wasn't a great idea, either he should have came back earlier or he should have just played the last few games of the season to prove he's healthy.

Miami may have just pushed out a talented 2-way player who can score and is a FA after this season for Gabe Vincent... who is signed for next year. Passing over Vincent for a player with a much higher upside should have been decided a long time ago, not this maybe, maybe not situation the last couple weeks of the season. Someone in the Miami organization should have been following Oladipo's progress and personal practices to know how close he was to being good.


Or kept his value depressed for their benefit.

I honestly don't know

No I don't think they did.

They played it safe, and brought him in 1 month too late to integrate him into the offense. We can argue one way or another what should have been the right way to go about it, but here we are.

He is a living, breathing, human being with a consciousness. He isn't an inanimate object like a car you can keep him looking rusty on the outside so people won't take him from you. If Dipo walks into a scheduled work out next off season with whomever invites him and he crushes it, he is getting paid. So no they didn't depress his value.

If anything shutting him down during those couple of weeks helped his cause since he was playing absolutely terribly. He needs the ball in his hands, we will see how we integrate him in the offense next off-season if he is still here. Dipo has never looked good playing off the ball either, at least not that I can remember in either Orlando or Indiana. I don't know if the playoffs is the place to do this either.


We all have thoughts based on incomplete info. I'm not that interested in speculating on this without more info. Just pointing out that there are 2 sides to a coin
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#539 » by AirP. » Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:46 pm

greg4012 wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
Or kept his value depressed for their benefit.

I honestly don't know

No I don't think they did.

They played it safe, and brought him in 1 month too late to integrate him into the offense. We can argue one way or another what should have been the right way to go about it, but here we are.

He is a living, breathing, human being with a consciousness. He isn't an inanimate object like a car you can keep him looking rusty on the outside so people won't take him from you. If Dipo walks into a scheduled work out next off season with whomever invites him and he crushes it, he is getting paid. So no they didn't depress his value.

If anything shutting him down during those couple of weeks helped his cause since he was playing absolutely terribly. He needs the ball in his hands, we will see how we integrate him in the offense next off-season if he is still here. Dipo has never looked good playing off the ball either, at least not that I can remember in either Orlando or Indiana. I don't know if the playoffs is the place to do this either.


We all have thoughts based on incomplete info. I'm not that interested in speculating on this without more info. Just pointing out that there are 2 sides to a coin


They didn't resign Nunn to allow Tyler to be the #1 option off the bench and had him buy in on a 6th man of year candidate, adding Oladipo could have/should have altered that for Miami, being able to point towards "playing it safe" for Oladipo allowed Miami not have to deal with that situation until late into the season. Seeing Oladipo's athletic ability that first game he played this year and the small amount of social media posts based on his rehab it looks like Miami put him off as long as they could. Miami's done this type of shuffling of players on the active/inactive to players who may or may not need to be inactive all 3 years I've watched this team play. A.Bradley should have been back quicker last year and was left on the inactive list until he was traded last season and all of a sudden he's playing for Houston. Miami's FO/Coaching staff really uses that inactive ability to help sort out the rotation without causing many issues of players bickering about minutes, can't bicker if you're not active for "your" wellbeing.

I'm really interested in seeing Herro being targeted defensively by a team in these playoffs. We all remember Butler being horrible in the playoffs last year(.297 FG%) but people seem to overlook that Herro shot nearly as bad(.316 FG%).
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4 

Post#540 » by oreon » Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:56 pm

AirP. wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
IceColdCubano wrote:No I don't think they did.

They played it safe, and brought him in 1 month too late to integrate him into the offense. We can argue one way or another what should have been the right way to go about it, but here we are.

He is a living, breathing, human being with a consciousness. He isn't an inanimate object like a car you can keep him looking rusty on the outside so people won't take him from you. If Dipo walks into a scheduled work out next off season with whomever invites him and he crushes it, he is getting paid. So no they didn't depress his value.

If anything shutting him down during those couple of weeks helped his cause since he was playing absolutely terribly. He needs the ball in his hands, we will see how we integrate him in the offense next off-season if he is still here. Dipo has never looked good playing off the ball either, at least not that I can remember in either Orlando or Indiana. I don't know if the playoffs is the place to do this either.


We all have thoughts based on incomplete info. I'm not that interested in speculating on this without more info. Just pointing out that there are 2 sides to a coin


They didn't resign Nunn to allow Tyler to be the #1 option off the bench and had him buy in on a 6th man of year candidate, adding Oladipo could have/should have altered that for Miami, being able to point towards "playing it safe" for Oladipo allowed Miami not have to deal with that situation until late into the season. Seeing Oladipo's athletic ability that first game he played this year and the small amount of social media posts based on his rehab it looks like Miami put him off as long as they could. Miami's done this type of shuffling of players on the active/inactive to players who may or may not need to be inactive all 3 years I've watched this team play. A.Bradley should have been back quicker last year and was left on the inactive list until he was traded last season and all of a sudden he's playing for Houston.


Nah. Dipo is back from 2 major injuries. It takes time. And he hasn't looked close to his former self. His quickness isn't back just yet. And he has missed games after his return because of rest. This doesn't scream to be a guy whose been held back. The heat aren't open with medical injuries that opens doors to speculation. But there was no conspiracy with Bosh, there wasn't with Keef and there isn't especially with Oladipo. And I think long-term its best that in the 1st season Oladipo is cautious. One more significant injury and he will be severely diminished

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