Eastern Conference | Round 1 | (4) Philadelphia 76ers vs. (5) Toronto Raptors

[BullyKing]

Because the question is whether the Raptors are rebuilding. Yes, they added Barnes. They didn't trade a veteran for him or for the draft pick to draft him. They selected him with their pick. That doesn't transform the following season into a rebuilding season any more than it does for the other 25 times that used a first round pick on a player last year.

you just admitted that they traded 2 veterans starters for young prospects. It's not an OKC tear down but it's a rebuild

Roughly 18 months ago the Raps played in the 2nd round using a playoff rotation of Lowry/FVV/Powell/OG/Siakam/Ibaka/Gasol.

3 guys from that remain and are replaced with GTJ, Precious, Barnes, and to a lesser extent Boucher/Birch/Thad. How that is not a rebuild I will not understand.

Somehow if you rebuild and are good it does not count. Rebuilding only counts if you win 20 games and get a top 3 pick for 5 straight years

Because pretty much every single team can something similar. A year ago the Sixers were playing Simmons, Curry, Dwight Howard, and Mike Scott. All gone.

Like I've never seen a fan base more deadset on labeling normal roster turnover as a rebuild all so they can have an excuse when they lose.

[eyeatoma]

you just admitted that they traded 2 veterans starters for young prospects. It's not an OKC tear down but it's a rebuild

Roughly 18 months ago the Raps played in the 2nd round using a playoff rotation of Lowry/FVV/Powell/OG/Siakam/Ibaka/Gasol.

3 guys from that remain and are replaced with GTJ, Precious, Barnes, and to a lesser extent Boucher/Birch/Thad. How that is not a rebuild I will not understand.

Somehow if you rebuild and are good it does not count. Rebuilding only counts if you win 20 games and get a top 3 pick for 5 straight years

Because pretty much every single team can something similar. A year ago the Sixers were playing Simmons, Curry, Dwight Howard, and Mike Scott. All gone.

Like I've never seen a fan base more deadset on labeling normal roster turnover as a rebuild all so they can have an excuse when they lose.

Preach!

[Green Backpack]

The Raps are definitely in a tough spot with the injuries and being on the road down 0-1. It's still not over if they lose tonight, but I'd put their chances at <5% if they go down 0-2.

[MrSparkle]

Come on guys. We know the terms. Toronto did a “soft rebuild” (the 1y tank). Kept the coach and several younger pieces of the chip team. Got a top 4 pick.

Total rebuild you fire the head coach, dump all your good vets and pray for lotto balls.

[SelfishPlayer]

Both are true, and still the treadmill.

Dude, enough with the treadmill garbage. The Raptors aren't a treadmill. If you are a Sixers fan, you'd know Sam Hinkie said a treadmill team was a team that merely fought to make the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed only to get whisked away by the higher seed.

RAPTORS ARE LEGIT. They aren't a treadmill. This isn't that hard to understand.

Thanks man - I do not understand why people feel the need to blindly hate the team they are playing against. Sure, I hope the Sixers absolutely implode and the Raps blow their socks off 4 games straight, but I can still admit you guys are a damn good team.

What enjoyment does anyone get from coming in and jus saying "treadmill" for 40 straight posts. I could understand it more if someone called the 2018 Raptors a treadmill, but the 2022 Raptors makes no sense.

Avg age of both team adjusted for minutes played in game 1

PHI - 27.1 years
TOR - 24. 9years (and that average is brought up by the bench which is crazy to me)

TOR is in no definition a treadmill team. Scotties first ever playoff game, GTJ's 6th, Precious' first (non garbage time mins), crazily enough only OG's 22nd game (and his first as more than a 3+d guy). Our most experienced guys are FVV and Siakam at 48 and 49 games a piece and Thad at 52.

Our broadcast showed a stat we had like 200 playoff games of experience and Philly has like 650.

If it is 2024 and we have the same core and we lose in round 1 again then OK, call us a treadmill, but for now I don't know how you can call this core's first playoff experience a "Treadmill"

Thad Young = Treadmill

[SelfishPlayer]

Someone didn't answer my post about the definition of retooling.

[KingSebastian]

you just admitted that they traded 2 veterans starters for young prospects. It's not an OKC tear down but it's a rebuild

Roughly 18 months ago the Raps played in the 2nd round using a playoff rotation of Lowry/FVV/Powell/OG/Siakam/Ibaka/Gasol.

3 guys from that remain and are replaced with GTJ, Precious, Barnes, and to a lesser extent Boucher/Birch/Thad. How that is not a rebuild I will not understand.

Somehow if you rebuild and are good it does not count. Rebuilding only counts if you win 20 games and get a top 3 pick for 5 straight years

Because pretty much every single team can something similar. A year ago the Sixers were playing Simmons, Curry, Dwight Howard, and Mike Scott. All gone.

Like I've never seen a fan base more deadset on labeling normal roster turnover as a rebuild all so they can have an excuse when they lose.

Simmons and Curry were still on your team 2 months ago...and Scott and Howard were not a part of your core. Old journey men.

So are you saying losing 2 of 15 players is a rebuild?

Or maybe you're saying changing 11 of 15 players like the Raptors did is not a rebuild?

Either way....you're not making sense.



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[Jadoogar]

you just admitted that they traded 2 veterans starters for young prospects. It's not an OKC tear down but it's a rebuild

Roughly 18 months ago the Raps played in the 2nd round using a playoff rotation of Lowry/FVV/Powell/OG/Siakam/Ibaka/Gasol.

3 guys from that remain and are replaced with GTJ, Precious, Barnes, and to a lesser extent Boucher/Birch/Thad. How that is not a rebuild I will not understand.

Somehow if you rebuild and are good it does not count. Rebuilding only counts if you win 20 games and get a top 3 pick for 5 straight years

Because pretty much every single team can something similar. A year ago the Sixers were playing Simmons, Curry, Dwight Howard, and Mike Scott. All gone.

Like I've never seen a fan base more deadset on labeling normal roster turnover as a rebuild all so they can have an excuse when they lose.

they replaced Simmons and Curry with an even older all-nba player, not 2nd/3rd year players. Dwight Howard was replaced by Deandre Jordan.

[KingSebastian]

Roughly 18 months ago the Raps played in the 2nd round using a playoff rotation of Lowry/FVV/Powell/OG/Siakam/Ibaka/Gasol.

3 guys from that remain and are replaced with GTJ, Precious, Barnes, and to a lesser extent Boucher/Birch/Thad. How that is not a rebuild I will not understand.

Somehow if you rebuild and are good it does not count. Rebuilding only counts if you win 20 games and get a top 3 pick for 5 straight years

Because pretty much every single team can something similar. A year ago the Sixers were playing Simmons, Curry, Dwight Howard, and Mike Scott. All gone.

Like I've never seen a fan base more deadset on labeling normal roster turnover as a rebuild all so they can have an excuse when they lose.

they replaced Simmons and Curry with an even older all-nba player, not 2nd/3rd year players. Dwight Howard was replaced by Deandre Jordan.

Exactly...it's not comparable

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[BullyKing]

Roughly 18 months ago the Raps played in the 2nd round using a playoff rotation of Lowry/FVV/Powell/OG/Siakam/Ibaka/Gasol.

3 guys from that remain and are replaced with GTJ, Precious, Barnes, and to a lesser extent Boucher/Birch/Thad. How that is not a rebuild I will not understand.

Somehow if you rebuild and are good it does not count. Rebuilding only counts if you win 20 games and get a top 3 pick for 5 straight years

Because pretty much every single team can something similar. A year ago the Sixers were playing Simmons, Curry, Dwight Howard, and Mike Scott. All gone.

Like I've never seen a fan base more deadset on labeling normal roster turnover as a rebuild all so they can have an excuse when they lose.

Simmons and Curry were still on your team 2 months ago...and Scott and Howard were not a part of your core. Old journey men.

So are you saying losing 2 of 15 players is a rebuild?

Or maybe you're saying changing 11 of 15 players like the Raptors did is not a rebuild?


Either way....you're not making sense.



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If you're using Ibaka and Gasol in your numbers then Scott and Howard count in ours. This is just a ridiculous hill for you to die on but by all means continue.

[BullyKing]

I can't wait for the Sixers to not re-sign Deandre and Millsap so we can also claim we're in a rebuild!

[JShuttlesworth]

you just admitted that they traded 2 veterans starters for young prospects. It's not an OKC tear down but it's a rebuild

Roughly 18 months ago the Raps played in the 2nd round using a playoff rotation of Lowry/FVV/Powell/OG/Siakam/Ibaka/Gasol.

3 guys from that remain and are replaced with GTJ, Precious, Barnes, and to a lesser extent Boucher/Birch/Thad. How that is not a rebuild I will not understand.

Somehow if you rebuild and are good it does not count. Rebuilding only counts if you win 20 games and get a top 3 pick for 5 straight years

Because pretty much every single team can something similar. A year ago the Sixers were playing Simmons, Curry, Dwight Howard, and Mike Scott. All gone.

Like I've never seen a fan base more deadset on labeling normal roster turnover as a rebuild all so they can have an excuse when they lose.

Meh, I wouldn't say 'the fanbase' thinks this. It's not everyone, I wouldn't call what the Raptors have done a rebuild. I guess it depends on how you define rebuild, if it is a rebuild, it's the slowest rebuild in the history. Just because Masai called this a 'developmental year' doesn't mean it's a 'rebuild year'.

It was more a slow bleed from the 2019 offseason (Kawhi, Danny), which continued through the 2020 offseason (Gasol, Ibaka), and we eventually stopped the bleed in 2021 (after losing Lowry) by drafting Barnes.

We managed to trade Powell for Trent and bring in Precious for Kyle (who was leaving regardless) but I don't think those two moves signify rebuild.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Why is anyone getting worked up about potential excuses for losing? The Raptors are young and they had a much better year than they did last year. Rebuild, retool, treadmill, use whatever you need. You guys started your rebuild the same year Ujiri was hired. We've got a ring to show for all our treadmilling, and we've nearly caught up to you guys again.

[Exp0sed]

it's true that saying Tor is in 'rebuilding' year isn't accurate at all, however calling them a 'treadmill' team is even further than the truth:

a Treadmill team is a team that has enough quality to be a playoff team (meaning no high lottery picks as means of improving) but not enough quality to actually contend or come close to contending, with it's cap used up or close to it and based mainly around vets that might be quite good but at the same time aren't expected to grow significantly as players due to their age, meaning: a team that is ok but has 0% realiistic chance of winning it all but also has very few (if any) avenues to realistically improve to that level.

'Treadmill' being - basically, going nowhere. standing (running) in place without advancing

This 'model' was more common in the past, especially for small and mid market teams that were dependant on fans attendence and Playoff appearneces for their bottom line

I guess the market has changed and so has the culture, even younger players, fed by the media and social media and current discourse - are surely aware of their 'legacy' and thinking in such terms which I suspect were pretty foreign to players from older generations

so..both are pretty far off imo

p.s - I would call Portland the last real treadmill team and even they blew it up this year and i'm guessing will continue to blow it up by trading Dame this summer

[Bruin]

Honestly just hope we come out of this series without Embiid hurting more of our guys. Would hate for someone to miss offseason development and even the start of next season

[Dominator83]

Rebuild would be more like if they traded Siakam and FVV for picks.

[SelfishPlayer]

Rebuild would be more like if they traded Siakam and FVV for picks.

Bingo!

[Bruin]

Rebuild would be more like if they traded Siakam and FVV for picks.

That’s a tear down and tank. You don’t need to be okc and blow it up to rebuild

[Vampirate]

Rebuild would be more like if they traded Siakam and FVV for picks.

Considering the age of Barnes, Precious, GTJ and OG, it's been pretty much a rebuild on the fly.

[aj174]

Come on guys. We know the terms. Toronto did a “soft rebuild” (the 1y tank). Kept the coach and several younger pieces of the chip team. Got a top 4 pick.

Total rebuild you fire the head coach, dump all your good vets and pray for lotto balls.

Some people here don't know the difference and thinks all rebuilds are the same lmao. Some fools even think this Raps team is a finished product. Righttt

Call it whatever you want, development year, retool etc. People here just want validation from 2019 but that will never happen cause the Raps aren't the same team.